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That new patch is great sounding! Every opportunity to get away from free or energy-based units is a good one. The shroud ability seems like it could be cool for positional play, especially when combined with lurkers. The boost to zealot speed so they can be microed more is something several of us had mentioned in the past, and changing how they deliver damage makes sense since right now it's so front-loaded. The glaives change is interesting as it isn't necessarily a buff, but it gives the adepts an actual role since they will definitely better for harass.
Making it so the mothership can't be neuralled is a change that should have been done long ago. Now the mothership will actually be useful as a unit.
If they end up needing to buff zerg further or nerf terran/protoss lategame a bit to make up for infestor/broodlord not really existing then so be it. I think most people would much rather that than having a patch that just tinkers with infestor/broodlord but leaves the composition in place.
edit: This is kind of what I was hoping for when I wrote my previous post. They have definitively made moves to fix the problematic elements of the game in a way that isn't a half-measure. Had it been another half-measure like the first patch proposal, it would have been much less likely to quell the fear people have about the state of the game. This new patch makes me much more optimistic because it shows they are willing to test bigger changes than it previously looked like. It's likely some tweaking will need to be done, but this is a good start.
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These changes seem much better design-wise. Getting rid of IT is a drastic step, but IMO this has potential to be a really good patch. Sometimes you just have to rip off the band-aid. Anything to pull us away from air + spellcaster armies is a good thing. I'd be completely OK with some nerfs to skytoss and BCs as well if needed to compensate. Making the mid-game longer and having mid-game armies trade better against late game armies would do a world of good as well.
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I am still worried about how the Disruptor now will outrange everything Terran has now when Liberators lost one range.
What is the Terran counter to Disruptor/Tempest/HT?
Decreasing the range on Liberators, Tempest and Neural is a good idea but it should be accompanied with the same range nerf on Disruptors.
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Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On October 30 2019 06:09 MockHamill wrote:
I am still worried about how the Disruptor now will outrange everything Terran has now when Liberators lost one range.
What is the Terran counter to Disruptor/Tempest/HT?
Decreasing the range on Liberators, Tempest and Neural is a good idea but it should be accompanied with the same range nerf on Disruptors.
I’m ok with Disruptors having the current range they do, but perhaps it may need re-evaluating.
Liberators start shredding as soon as anything enters their zones, Disruptors are a rather finnicky unit that can be devastating but there are micro counter-measures too. They only hit their max range if the path of the ball doesn’t deviate.
TvP seems in a decent spot, I felt even before the EMP buff it wasn’t too bad at the top top level but EMP has made a difference since that was changed.
I’m worried about the impact the charge change will make more than anything else. I can’t see Protoss getting away with how greedy they are currently (which was listed as a reason for the patch after all), but equally I’m worried at how the matchup looks if Protoss can’t power and tech hard.
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Hydra Lurker infestor will be uber strong on this patch. Maybe even broken.
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So I guess they want Hydras to be the new anti-air unit for Lategame zerg, without them dying like flies to storms (which will ignore that Microbial swarm). I don't think getting rid of infested terrans will be the solution, but to tone them down or something... Also like someone said this big maps pool favours Zerg a lot. So big nerfs + more fair map pool might be too much of a nerf for zergs... we will see.
The morthership immunity to abduct/neural is a no brainer, it was just stupid to kill/lose a 400/400 unit to a 75 energy spell.
Also, those fastas* zealots... jesus...
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On October 30 2019 08:00 Elmonti wrote:
So I guess they want Hydras to be the new anti-air unit for Lategame zerg, without them dying like flies to storms (which will ignore that Microbial swarm). I don't think getting rid of infested terrans will be the solution, but to tone them down or something... Also like someone said this big maps pool favours Zerg a lot. So big nerfs + more fair map pool might be too much of a nerf for zergs... we will see.
The morthership immunity to abduct/neural is a no brainer, it was just stupid to kill/lose a 400/400 unit to a 75 energy spell.
Also, those fastas* zealots... jesus...
It's a good thing to have balance on larger maps as well as smaller maps. It's a titanic challenge with such a diverse pool of units, abilities, upgrades, and players. I'm really proud of Blizzard's continued support of this most spectacular esport.
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Northern Ireland25996 Posts
Holy shit true speedy Manlots! I’ve been beating this drum for a while as something I’d like to see experimented with. Having something that is legitimately passively fast on the ground is something I think Protoss lack, specifically in PvZ I suppose. Retreat potential and speed across the map might incentivise army splitting and a more dynamic midgame
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All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now.
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Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On October 30 2019 08:40 travis wrote:
All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now.
I don’t really care who is strong or weak post patch, that can be tweaked a bit it just seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of potential compositions and unit interactions.
Of course things may not end up meshing and delivering the desired results of course.
BL Infestor is nerfed, but the new Zerg ability sounds promising to give Zerg the potential to counter airtoss with ground units and ‘not dark swarm’
Regardless of which race is atop any given meta, I’m pretty sure most players and observers don’t like overpowered air balls that can’t be defeated by anything other than other air balls
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On October 30 2019 08:47 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2019 08:40 travis wrote:
All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now. I don’t really care who is strong or weak post patch, that can be tweaked a bit it just seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of potential compositions and unit interactions. Of course things may not end up meshing and delivering the desired results of course. BL Infestor is nerfed, but the new Zerg ability sounds promising to give Zerg the potential to counter airtoss with ground units and ‘not dark swarm’ Regardless of which race is atop any given meta, I’m pretty sure most players and observers don’t like overpowered air balls that can’t be defeated by anything other than other air balls
As long as BLs, and now the new 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is pretty much forced to go skytoss
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Thank you GOD. I have literally been posting about how bad sc2 charge is compared to broodwar for so long. It makes no sense why they made one of the most microed P units an A move borefest from this iteration of the game. I really, really hope they keep this.
As for the other changes... I'm actually optimistic. The infestor sounds like an altered defilier, and adepts will be incredible for 2 hit squad harassment give protoss much better counterplay rather than full defense/wp counter only.
Actually hoping to play a lot on this patch!
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Canada8989 Posts
On October 30 2019 08:00 Elmonti wrote:
So I guess they want Hydras to be the new anti-air unit for Lategame zerg, without them dying like flies to storms (which will ignore that Microbial swarm). I don't think getting rid of infested terrans will be the solution, but to tone them down or something... Also like someone said this big maps pool favours Zerg a lot. So big nerfs + more fair map pool might be too much of a nerf for zergs... we will see.
The morthership immunity to abduct/neural is a no brainer, it was just stupid to kill/lose a 400/400 unit to a 75 energy spell.
Also, those fastas* zealots... jesus...
I wonder if you can go ultra-hydra-infestor or roach-hydra-infestor. You sens the ultra/roach foward under the cloud to push back the HT and the zealots, then swoop in with the hydra. Maybe they would last long enough with the -50% from air.
You could even sprincle one or two Blinding cloud for the immos in there...
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Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On October 30 2019 09:04 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2019 08:47 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 30 2019 08:40 travis wrote:
All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now. I don’t really care who is strong or weak post patch, that can be tweaked a bit it just seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of potential compositions and unit interactions. Of course things may not end up meshing and delivering the desired results of course. BL Infestor is nerfed, but the new Zerg ability sounds promising to give Zerg the potential to counter airtoss with ground units and ‘not dark swarm’ Regardless of which race is atop any given meta, I’m pretty sure most players and observers don’t like overpowered air balls that can’t be defeated by anything other than other air balls As long as BLs, and now the new 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is pretty much forced to go skytoss
It really depends on how the game flows and how compositional transitions will all work.
If the Infestor is less of a catch-all unit and works in more of a support capacity seems like you’d go something/hydra into lurker with infestor support, seems difficult to fit a bunch of Broods into that.
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Don't understand the fear of the new zealots. Same speed as stimmed marines and still way slower than speed lings.
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Northern Ireland25996 Posts
On October 30 2019 09:35 LTCM wrote:
Don't understand the fear of the new zealots. Same speed as stimmed marines and still way slower than speed lings.
So speedy, so manly nonetheless.
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Much better. But why are they trying to speed things up. Faster, faster. Speed up. Just curious.
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On October 30 2019 09:23 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2019 09:04 BerserkSword wrote:On October 30 2019 08:47 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 30 2019 08:40 travis wrote:
All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now. I don’t really care who is strong or weak post patch, that can be tweaked a bit it just seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of potential compositions and unit interactions. Of course things may not end up meshing and delivering the desired results of course. BL Infestor is nerfed, but the new Zerg ability sounds promising to give Zerg the potential to counter airtoss with ground units and ‘not dark swarm’ Regardless of which race is atop any given meta, I’m pretty sure most players and observers don’t like overpowered air balls that can’t be defeated by anything other than other air balls As long as BLs, and now the new 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is pretty much forced to go skytoss It really depends on how the game flows and how compositional transitions will all work. If the Infestor is less of a catch-all unit and works in more of a support capacity seems like you’d go something/hydra into lurker with infestor support, seems difficult to fit a bunch of Broods into that.
I meant that because things like BL and 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is forced to go into skytoss eventually. Regardless of whether BLs are a big part of hydra lurker comps
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On October 30 2019 09:13 -Kyo- wrote:
Thank you GOD. I have literally been posting about how bad sc2 charge is compared to broodwar for so long. It makes no sense why they made one of the most microed P units an A move borefest from this iteration of the game. I really, really hope they keep this.
As for the other changes... I'm actually optimistic. The infestor sounds like an altered defilier, and adepts will be incredible for 2 hit squad harassment give protoss much better counterplay rather than full defense/wp counter only.
Actually hoping to play a lot on this patch!
Chargelots are not a-move
Charge still exists. It just doesnt do 8 damage on impact anymore
This is still nothing like the BW zealot.
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Canada8989 Posts
On October 30 2019 10:13 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2019 09:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 30 2019 09:04 BerserkSword wrote:On October 30 2019 08:47 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 30 2019 08:40 travis wrote:
All these changes at once may put P in too strong of a spot, but I do like what is being suggested much more now. I don’t really care who is strong or weak post patch, that can be tweaked a bit it just seems to be moving in the right direction in terms of potential compositions and unit interactions. Of course things may not end up meshing and delivering the desired results of course. BL Infestor is nerfed, but the new Zerg ability sounds promising to give Zerg the potential to counter airtoss with ground units and ‘not dark swarm’ Regardless of which race is atop any given meta, I’m pretty sure most players and observers don’t like overpowered air balls that can’t be defeated by anything other than other air balls As long as BLs, and now the new 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is pretty much forced to go skytoss It really depends on how the game flows and how compositional transitions will all work. If the Infestor is less of a catch-all unit and works in more of a support capacity seems like you’d go something/hydra into lurker with infestor support, seems difficult to fit a bunch of Broods into that. I meant that because things like BL and 10 range lurker exist, Protoss is forced to go into skytoss eventually. Regardless of whether BLs are a big part of hydra lurker comps
Hum idk with -1 range on BL I think stalker will do surprisingly well against them. Blink play against them already isn't that terrible if you can hit a timing.
As for lurker we'll see, I think as they have been pretty much out of the meta in a while it will take time to figure out if protoss has a decent counter against them with the new patch.
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EPT
