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Serral wins HomeStory Cup 19 - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
144 CommentsPost a Reply
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arcane1129
Profile Joined January 2011
United States273 Posts
July 03 2019 14:29 GMT
#141
On July 03 2019 21:52 Harris1st wrote:
I like when they play to matches. Like TY has to win a Bo5 first, then they play another Bo5. If Serrals wins the first Bo5, he is champ. But it was really late in the night and I don't mind doing it with a one game advantage. I have no idea how someone can go to these length just to discuss something so trivial ^^
The organizers of the event decide how it's done and it was known to all players before.

GG WP Serral


Exactly my thoughts. Attackzerg keeps whining about people being combative and mean to him but as far as I see he's the only one acting that way.

In a double elimination bracket, you're not out until you lose 2 sets. Why is this confusing?

shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
July 04 2019 10:09 GMT
#142
Serral is a beast !

go go go
BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
Veluvian
Profile Joined December 2011
Bulgaria256 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-04 13:20:53
July 04 2019 13:19 GMT
#143
Congratulations to Serral - the best player in the world.
I feel really strange for TY. He's lost his own style completely switching into other styles more than a year. Really can't say much positive stuff about my favorite player. The same happened with Soulkey before he retired from SC2 - early aggressive builds and timings.
I understand TY's choice to experiment with more early aggression. He was ultimate god in long macrogames before Rogue/Maru/Dark rises, but other players often rushed him in order to deal with him early. And he was pissed of course. But the new style doesn't bring him titles. I really prefer the old TY...
Oz; MMA; Rain; sOs; Classic, Soulkey, TY, Dark
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
July 04 2019 14:19 GMT
#144
[image loading]


When he squeeze those two Home Story Cups to that shelf...

With this tournament winning pace he really need upgrade some furniture. And bulky Circuit trophies need some reinforced platform to be stored securely.
Part-time Serralogist
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-04 22:03:03
July 04 2019 22:02 GMT
#145
On July 03 2019 04:36 AttackZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2019 21:16 tigon_ridge wrote:
On July 02 2019 18:46 AttackZerg wrote:
I do not agree with how this sport has incorporated this system in the past and I am against it now and will be in the future.

I read each and every post in this thread before providing my opinion. You may disagree with me but our disagreement is not from my failure to understand the reasoning for the system.

A match is a finite thing. A best of 7 should involve 4 wins and a winner declared. I am willing to entertain winner bracket advantages, such as map preference or order, or extra pay but I will never agree with Ghost or Fake games in a bo7.

Take a softer tone. I provided way clearer advocacy for my opinion without being a .... smart guy?

You live in a world where the winners bracket gets a back rub. That isn't the way it has always been and it isn't the way it needs to be. Chill yo. You didn't make any good, new or simplified versions of your argument in your second attempt to reach me. I am not convinced. Bo7 should be first to 4. Your ghost game shit is wack.


And back to my original point - great event, had a blast, my dude won.
Fake games, Ghost games are fake news or send me the replay from game 1 of the finals please.


The concept of a tournament is to pit players together, under fair rules that apply equally to all participants, in order to determine who the best performers are, as accurately as possible. Suggesting to monetarily compensate the upper bracket winner, who was unfairly treated by a flawed tournament format, while of good intention is nothing more than offering apology money, or "Hey, we feel bad for robbing you of your fair chance for taking 1st prize, (and in this case you proven that you're better than the official crowned victor), but here, have some money." An advantage in having map decision is peanuts in compensation (imo).

"A best of 7 should involve 4 wins and a winner declared."

Except this isn't a normal Bo7, nor should it be. There is absolutely no reason why player B should be crowned the victor over player A, when player A is so blatantly handicapped by having no 2nd chance which player B enjoyed. The problem is that you are perceiving the +1 as the organizers having decided a real game was won, when really it should just be considered as merely a placeholder value. I would agree that the +1 score can be confusing for those unfamiliar with the tournament format, as it suggests the winners-bracket player won more games than he actually did. In my opinion, the +1 should be left out, and the match win should simply be awarded to the winners-bracket player if he wins 3 games, or the lower bracket player if he wins 4 games, and also NOT call it a Bo7. (Perhaps add an asterisk.)

If fairness was strictly adhered to, we wouldn't have any losers bracket, provided that the players were properly seated, so that a top elite player doesn't get knocked out of the tournament in the Ro8 because he was unluckily placed against the eventually tournament winner. The reason why we have a losers bracket is that we also want to have the additional factor of accuracy of measuring relative skill, to prevent the suspicions of "player X won due to a fluke of circumstances," or "player Y should've placed much higher but got really unlucky."

Now I acknowledge the argument that the losers bracket player oftens has to slug his way back to the top, having to win many more matches. However, these matches are all against players that are by default lower in standing than the winners bracket finalist. Now the fact these players all have a chance at taking a series even off of the supposed best player in the tournament, doesn't make it a probable occurrence, and no tournament can prevent a weaker player from defeating a stronger player. So, the fact that the lower bracket winner has beaten so many of them should not have any bearing on his merit aside from the fact that he'd earned his right to challenge the upper bracket winner.

Stripping away the best-performing winners bracket player's critical 2nd chance without just compensation is absolutely the worst possible scenario. Consoling him with money is insulting, and offering arbitrary advantages may work if they're enough, but that's largely a subjective decision, just as the +1 placeholder was a subjectively arrived upon decision. Map decisions alone is nowhere near enough, but that is also just my subjective opinion, as no one has quantified the statistical advantage of being able to dictate what maps and their order are to be played.



You provided no new points. You are arguing for something that no other sport that is credible in the world does.

Your argument is "Well we must stack the deck in the finals to make it fair".

Thank you for pulling back from your "I'm so smart tone" but unfortunately you added more words with less content.

Why do your sc2 groupies feel the need to bandwagon. I pointed out the merits to my argument. The entire tournament world operates closer to my ideas then yours.

Only this sport has such a moronic "+1 in the finals advantage".

Nobody else does that because it literally ruins the finals.

The finals, that goal of a tournament is to produce a finals. That's it. The finals of the tournament were champions are made.

The finals of this tournament ended with 3/3. That is stupid.

I made it clear that I am not susceptible to arguments that "This is the best way".

To the polish guy who said "can't get this through your head"

Listen Mr. Second language. Holding a separate opinion doesn't make someone stupid.

I never asked for your or anyone else opinion. I stated mine. Fully aware of yours.
Yours is the way the tournament was run and why the finals were a sad affair with 6 games played.

If you want to imply that someone is stupid .... it is probably the people in a niche sport adding fake games in order to falsely quantify the difference between winners and losers brackets.

If you want to go that route .... You would have to be a real barnacle of a person to support back rubs for the winners bracket at the cost of a fair finals.



Also your argument starts off stupid, There is a losers bracket for every round but the finals. Penalizing someone for having a worse earlier tournament or handicapping the finals is unjustifiable.



From Wikipedia:

One such athletic event that employs a double-elimination format is the NCAA baseball tournament, including the College World Series, where a team is not eliminated until it loses twice in each of the four rounds (regional, super regional, College World Series, and CWS championship, with the super regional and CWS championship series featuring two teams in a best-of-3 format). The NCAA softball tournament (including the Women's College World Series) uses the same format. The Little League World Series switched from round-robin to double-elimination formats for each of its pools starting in 2010 in an effort to eliminate meaningless games.

It is also used in video game tournaments and table football tournaments. Double-elimination brackets are also popular in amateur wrestling of all levels, pool, surfing, windsurfing and kiteboarding freestyle competitions, as well as Curling bonspiels (where triple-elimination is also used), Hardcourt Bike Polo. The World Baseball Classic used a double-elimination format for its second rounds of the tournament in 2009 and 2013, as well as in its first round in 2009. In contract bridge, the English Bridge Union Spring Foursomes, first contested in 1962, uses a double elimination format.[2][3]

It is also used, in modified form, in the All-Ireland Senior Gaelic Football Championship and All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship.


Double elimination means you lose twice. It means that around the world in every sport that utilizes double elimination. it doesn't mean "lose twice, except in the finals because AttackZerg has a strong opinion about what makes him excited or not".

Giving one game to Serral, if anything, is a smaller advantage.
3 Hatch Before Cool
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