Yep, been doing my best to prove my innocence all day today, but here we are.
I’m going to say this just once, about 4 years ago, I hacked in 2v2 games when I was young and didn’t realize how much of a selfish and stupid decision it was and the consequences of admitting to my actions changed me for the better, and I promised myself I’d never cheat again. Years went by of people still calling me a cheater to this day, and that’s to be expected, but I knew for myself I was never cheating in all this time. February 2019 rolls around and I decided to tryhard in 1v1 to give myself a goal of getting into WCS spring challenger. I failed then, but I knew I could do it if I kept myself focused and that I did, and I ended up qualifying for this recent summer challenger. The best part about it is I knew I did it legitimately, and it was an indescribable feeling of accomplishment. I knew I was going to get backlash for a stupid decision I made a long time ago, but I was sure I would be safe because I NEVER cheated in years. Then I got the announcement that I was being DQ’d and my blizzard account was being banned and I was completely devastated. I tried my best to persuade everyone in charge that I was innocent, but they wouldn’t budge. I will maintain my innocence forever in this situation, and no matter if you hate me or love me, I know I accomplished my goal of WCS challenger, regardless if I’m competing or not. Good luck to everybody left, thanks for reading!
On June 07 2019 04:15 Killmo wrote: That is very surprising. Were there even any suspicions or accusations towards PureLegacy, or is this straight out of the blue?
He was a verified hacker in teams a few years ago.
As someone who plays high level teams, my teammates and I aren't convinced he stopped.
On June 07 2019 04:15 Killmo wrote: That is very surprising. Were there even any suspicions or accusations towards PureLegacy, or is this straight out of the blue?
He was a verified hacker in teams a few years ago.
As someone who plays high level teams, my teammates and I aren't convinced he stopped.
I see. I'm surprised he was even allowed to play in qualifiers to begin with. I'd imagine he is on some form of watch list from Blizzard, and that is how he got busted. I wonder how recent the games that he was found to be cheating in were.
Yep, been doing my best to prove my innocence all day today, but here we are.
I’m going to say this just once, about 4 years ago, I hacked in 2v2 games when I was young and didn’t realize how much of a selfish and stupid decision it was and the consequences of admitting to my actions changed me for the better, and I promised myself I’d never cheat again. Years went by of people still calling me a cheater to this day, and that’s to be expected, but I knew for myself I was never cheating in all this time. February 2019 rolls around and I decided to tryhard in 1v1 to give myself a goal of getting into WCS spring challenger. I failed then, but I knew I could do it if I kept myself focused and that I did, and I ended up qualifying for this recent summer challenger. The best part about it is I knew I did it legitimately, and it was an indescribable feeling of accomplishment. I knew I was going to get backlash for a stupid decision I made a long time ago, but I was sure I would be safe because I NEVER cheated in years. Then I got the announcement that I was being DQ’d and my blizzard account was being banned and I was completely devastated. I tried my best to persuade everyone in charge that I was innocent, but they wouldn’t budge. I will maintain my innocence forever in this situation, and no matter if you hate me or love me, I know I accomplished my goal of WCS challenger, regardless if I’m competing or not. Good luck to everybody left, thanks for reading!
On June 07 2019 04:15 Killmo wrote: That is very surprising. Were there even any suspicions or accusations towards PureLegacy, or is this straight out of the blue?
He was a verified hacker in teams a few years ago.
As someone who plays high level teams, my teammates and I aren't convinced he stopped.
I see. I'm surprised he was even allowed to play in qualifiers to begin with. I'd imagine he is on some form of watch list from Blizzard, and that is how he got busted. I wonder how recent the games that he was found to be cheating in were.
My thoughts exactly. There is so much proof and evidence on my youtube and stream vods that prove without a doubt that he was cheating.
Yet for some reason they still let him play.
Blizzard really needs to get in touch with reality.
Glad to see it. Agree w/ Protech and we've had a resurgence of hackers in recent times that has threatened the top of GM ladder and WCS qualifiers. That's not something that i'm okay with.
Purelegacy is super BM and extremely toxic overall on the ladder... However, IMO unless you have proof he hacked in the actual tournament or recently they shouldn't retroactively ban him after he qualifies. He either should not have been allowed to play the qualifier at all (almost 100% this) or no punishment should be given. The entire tournament bracket plays out differently if he is not in the tournament and its unfair to the entire rest of the field of players to do something like this after the fact.
Having said that I'm glad my boy Rob is making it in he definitely deserves it!
On June 07 2019 04:49 Response wrote: Purelegacy is super BM and extremely toxic overall on the ladder... However, IMO unless you have proof he hacked in the actual tournament or recently they shouldn't retroactively ban him after he qualifies. He either should not have been allowed to play the qualifier at all (almost 100% this) or no punishment should be given. The entire tournament bracket plays out differently if he is not in the tournament and its unfair to the entire rest of the field of players to do something like this after the fact.
Having said that I'm glad my boy Rob is making it in he definitely deserves it!
Blizzard clarified that he got banned in a hacking banwave and that makes him ineligible to then compete in WCS because of a rule prohibiting banned players. That's fair enough IMO and the default thing to do is what they did, go back and give the spot to the last player that was eliminated. It sucks that it messed up the qualifier but there's no perfect course of action without going back in time.
To clarify: While no cheats were detected during the open qualifiers, a player whose account is no longer in good standing is ineligible to compete based on Rule 3.1.a in the WCS Rules.
A more accurate headline would probably be "Purelegacy banned for hacking, runner up Rob given WCS spot"
Well rules are rules, if he did not hack in the qualifier (like it seems) congrats to him anyway it's a personal accomplishment for him. I personally would have let it fly since he didin't hack in the qualifier, but since he did hack for years there's good reason for Blizz to be weary (especially since hacking is passive of getting you ban from playing Starcraft all together)
I would be ok with a temp ban from the competitive circuit, if he stop cheating and in 6 months he want to try again he should be allowed to. I get that hacking suck, but if he invested the same effort than everyone else to win without hack, he should be able to get back in.
I get that hacking suck, but if he invested the same effort than everyone else to win without hack, he should be able to get back in.
Can't compete from an account during an SC2 ban - you can't even log into the game - and you're not technically allowed to make another account to bypass that as it's considered ban evasion. It's explicitly prohibited in the WCS rules.
3.1. Regional Eligibility.
(a) In order to be eligible to participate in the WCS, you must have authorized access to a full Battle.net account. Your account must be in good standing at the start of the WCS and remain in good standing throughout the WCS.
It looks to me like a temp ban from the game and Blizzard don't seem to have excluded him from any event aside from the ones that directly overlap with the hacking game integrity ban in the game itself. There's an additional competitive circuit punishment process that they've done for players in the past which doesn't seem to have happened here - i think it's actually fairly lenient on their part.
I agree with Protech too : he is a know maphacker, and cheated for years, and not at all "only one time 4 years ago".
The issue is not him being banned now, it's him not being banned for life a long long time ago. He (and a few others) ruined top team play in 2v2 (3v3) for months here and here, a lot of people stopped playing top team play because him cheating for years without being banned.
Everyone who played him enough times in team play knows he cheats, and yet this dude even keeps the same nickname, as big as a "Big F***" to the community you can make. And blizzard let this dude ruin the game experience for tens or hundreds of legit players. For years. And now, getting caught a second time (in 5+ years of continuously maphacking at least ), he get the balls to whine. Unreal.
There seem to be 2 conflicting stories. he says he havent hacked for years, Blizzard claims he was banned for recent hacking. Even if that means 6-12 months ago, that proves him a liar besides a (former) cheater
Again with "when I was young, I didn't realize...". Bring your age and use it as an excuse for mistakes you make in life. Well, he didn't get punished for his cheating in the past but now he did. So all and all, it is a delayed consequence for his action. Seem fair to me.
On June 07 2019 05:37 xongnox wrote: I agree with Protech too : he is a know maphacker, and cheated for years, and not at all "only one time 4 years ago".
The issue is not him being banned now, it's him not being banned for life a long long time ago. He (and a few others) ruined top team play in 2v2 (3v3) for months here and here, a lot of people stopped playing top team play because him cheating for years without being banned.
Everyone who played him enough times in team play knows he cheats, and yet this dude even keeps the same nickname, as big as a "Big F***" to the community you can make. And blizzard let this dude ruin the game experience for tens or hundreds of legit players. For years. And now, getting caught a second time (in 5+ years of continuously maphacking at least ), he get the balls to whine. Unreal.
Let's not forget the henchmen he created over the years that still to this day muck up our team ladder.
LoadBlaster Prototype ( EU ) StellarMango BrotienShake
All these guys stream snipe me for 5 hours + per stream and blatantly map hack.
PureLegacy started that garbage in team games and it's not gonna end with him now.
Lol, blizzard not detecting any hacks used during the qualifier means nothing either considering maphacks are undetectable server side (which is why they're still around in rts, they're pretty much impossible to prevent). All they can do is scan for signatures of public/common hacking software, if he's using something private they'd never catch it. Given his over performance on the ladder and what not I think its quite possible he's still cheating.
On June 07 2019 06:09 Jank wrote: Lol, blizzard not detecting any hacks used during the qualifier means nothing either considering maphacks are undetectable server side (which is why they're still around in rts, they're pretty much impossible to prevent). All they can do is scan for signatures of public/common hacking software, if he's using something private they'd never catch it. Given his over performance on the ladder and what not I think its quite possible he's still cheating.
-well you probably can design the game network component to prevent most of map-hacking being possible. There are some decent papers. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5958049 for example. Best of all, from a performance perspective, you can do both (either the old way or the secure way) depending on context. (or even the settings of players...)
-Even with the post- "scan the hack" method, Blizzard could do it 15x times better (money money i guess..). After all it's the main way antivirus works, and they work fine for 99.9% of stuff. Indeed most map-hackers kids doesn't codes themselves the maphack, they download/buy it, from public sites, so i guess it's not that hard if Blizzard had a competent dedicated team on it. Blizzard should understand maphack ruin the game experience for players. If you play only 1 cheater on 100 ladder games it's not a big deal, but when in GM/top ranked 2v2/3v3/archon/whatever you play 5 times the same team in 10 games, and this team cheats, it's totally ruining the experience, so people quit.
Then with the top ranked 2v2/etc scene being obliterated, nobody stream it/train it/make competition, and so a lot of casual players will not get inspirited/follow/etc.
Team games can be super nice in SC2, and it's very good for casuals (social interaction with friends), introducing a noob friend to SC2, combating ladder anxiety, etc. Sadly it's not now very popular in SC2, because this issues and some other (maps, full air/mech BS meta, etc.). Blizzard should (have) paid more attention. Not the 1v1 GM ladder dosen't mean not important for the game and player base.
On June 07 2019 06:09 Jank wrote: Lol, blizzard not detecting any hacks used during the qualifier means nothing either considering maphacks are undetectable server side (which is why they're still around in rts, they're pretty much impossible to prevent). All they can do is scan for signatures of public/common hacking software, if he's using something private they'd never catch it. Given his over performance on the ladder and what not I think its quite possible he's still cheating.
-well you probably can design the game network component to prevent most of map-hacking being possible. There are some decent papers. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5958049 for example. Best of all, from a performance perspective, you can do both (either the old way or the secure way) depending on context. (or even the settings of players...)
-Even with the post- "scan the hack" method, Blizzard could do it 15x times better (money money i guess..). After all it's the main way antivirus works, and they work fine for 99.9% of stuff. Indeed most map-hackers kids doesn't codes themselves the maphack, they download/buy it, from public sites, so i guess it's not that hard if Blizzard had a competent dedicated team on it. Blizzard should understand maphack ruin the game experience for players. If you play only 1 cheater on 100 ladder games it's not a big deal, but when in GM/top ranked 2v2/3v3/archon/whatever you play 5 times the same team in 10 games, and this team cheats, it's totally ruining the experience, so people quit.
Then with the top ranked 2v2/etc scene being obliterated, nobody stream it/train it/make competition, and so a lot of casual players will not get inspirited/follow/etc.
Team games can be super nice in SC2, and it's very good for casuals (social interaction with friends), introducing a noob friend to SC2, combating ladder anxiety, etc. Sadly it's not now very popular in SC2, because this issues and some other (maps, full air/mech BS meta, etc.). Blizzard should (have) paid more attention. Not the 1v1 GM ladder dosen't mean not important for the game and player base.
*Impossible to prevent without non trivial performance/stability issues. That paper sounds interesting (too bad its behind a paywall) but no videogame developers have actually implemented anything like that as far as I know (please let me know if I'm wrong, it sounds cool!). But yeah blizzard could be wayyyy more proactive with scanning for new hacks and what not, I get that they like to delay bans and ban in waves in order to hit the most people (otherwise the hack authors just immediately push out an update after a handful of people get banned) but they're definitely lazy/ineffectual about it. I don't know if there IS a great solution now that the game is f2p its pretty easy to dodge bans.
but when in GM/top ranked 2v2/3v3/archon/whatever you play 5 times the same team in 10 games, and this team cheats, it's totally ruining the experience, so people quit.
Sometimes even 10+ times in a row, especially since you cannot stop anybody (hackers or not) from seeing when you queue IN THE GAME CLIENT and queuing up at the the same time as you. Even walking away for a random period of time between 5-25 mins before queuing for another game doesn't stop those people matching you almost 100% of the time that you queue for between say 6pm and 10pm local time.
It can be problematic when random people do this to you but it's gamebreaking when well known hackers do it time and time again.
Most hackers are actually pretty shit people and don't hesitate to abuse flaws in the game like this to screw over legitimate players.
In these bans I think giving up a short video with an analysis wouldn't hurt and wouldn't cost that much, it's the first hacker at WCS? But I trust them anyway.
On June 07 2019 04:42 Ej_ wrote: Only took 4(?) years and the guy to get top 5 GM :D
No, actually if you were tracking his account you could see that after being a full time 2v2 player ( for 9 years ) he got to top 16 GM in less than 2,000 games.
On June 07 2019 04:42 Ej_ wrote: Only took 4(?) years and the guy to get top 5 GM :D
No, actually if you were tracking his account you could see that after being a full time 2v2 player ( for 9 years ) he got to top 16 GM in less than 2,000 games.
I can assure you that's not possible.
The fact that his random team games (2v2, 3v3 and 4v4) win/loss ratios are always above 50 should be proof enough that something is fishy.
On June 07 2019 04:42 Ej_ wrote: Only took 4(?) years and the guy to get top 5 GM :D
No, actually if you were tracking his account you could see that after being a full time 2v2 player ( for 9 years ) he got to top 16 GM in less than 2,000 games.
Not gonna comment on the 2v2 stuff but I'm pretty convinced PureLegacy doesn't hack anymore in 1v1s, based on my own games and a lot of games I've seen from him against other players on ladder. If this DQ is referring to those games 4 years ago, maybe that is a bit harsh.
But honestly, it's hard to have much sympathy. This guy is the definition of toxic, he stream-snipes, he is super BM, and is always unpleasant to play against. Can't really expect the community to be behind him when he is so dislikable as a person.
On June 07 2019 08:56 argonautdice wrote: Didn't Vindicta (Nero) also used to hack? And who the heck is CrucialNug? Did someone change ID recently is it another random NA Terran?
CrucialNug as I understand it is one of the top 2v2 players in NA trying his hand at 1v1 tournaments.
Don't let this guy's statement fool you. He didn't just hack in 2v2s that's for sure. This guy hacked me in 4v4's back in 2015. And he's hacked countless others. In team games and 1v1's. It doesn't make sense how he tries to say hey I only did it in 2v2 one time.
*Impossible to prevent without non trivial performance/stability issues. That paper sounds interesting (too bad its behind a paywall) but no videogame developers have actually implemented anything like that as far as I know (please let me know if I'm wrong, it sounds cool!). But yeah blizzard could be wayyyy more proactive with scanning for new hacks and what not, I get that they like to delay bans and ban in waves in order to hit the most people (otherwise the hack authors just immediately push out an update after a handful of people get banned) but they're definitely lazy/ineffectual about it. I don't know if there IS a great solution now that the game is f2p its pretty easy to dodge bans.
Blizzard tried to implement a very active algorithm to detect maphacking in Wings of Liberty (i think). It may have been early Heart of the Swarm. It absolutely obliterated frame rates in team games. So much so, that they simply removed it.
Edit: It is probably more correct to say that they tried a system to make it VERY hard to make maphacks work. It seemed to be fiddling with actively changing memory addresses and the like. Sorry, my memory of the particulars is a bit fuzzy by now.
What is quite sad about this whole ordeal is that Blizzard only took necessary action once he qualified. I guess they didn't want the bad PR of having a known hacker playing for money on their official broadcast, but he was allegedly free to ruin the ladder for years as long as it didn't make too many waves back then.
Cheaters really are the plague of online gaming. The stream sniping and BMing is irrelevant. If you don't want to play fair, I say good riddance.
I think people getting know someone and treating them accordingly is pretty reasonable. Show us again for WCS Montreal Challenger and the verdict might be different. Let us get to know you in the different light that you say you bring now for us to believe that.
There is proof that he hacked in 2v2 AND 4v4 years ago, but I doubt he has done it after that, not with his main account anyway. I'd like to believe him that he hasn't hacked since, not with his main account anyway, but since he didn't get properly punished back in the day, so it was due time. It's difficult to defend a toxic guy, but I don't hate him like many do. I hope he has learned his lesson now and uninstalls all lurking and tempting cheating software from his computer.
On June 07 2019 06:09 Jank wrote: Lol, blizzard not detecting any hacks used during the qualifier means nothing either considering maphacks are undetectable server side (which is why they're still around in rts, they're pretty much impossible to prevent). All they can do is scan for signatures of public/common hacking software, if he's using something private they'd never catch it. Given his over performance on the ladder and what not I think its quite possible he's still cheating.
-well you probably can design the game network component to prevent most of map-hacking being possible. There are some decent papers. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5958049 for example. Best of all, from a performance perspective, you can do both (either the old way or the secure way) depending on context. (or even the settings of players...)
-Even with the post- "scan the hack" method, Blizzard could do it 15x times better (money money i guess..). After all it's the main way antivirus works, and they work fine for 99.9% of stuff. Indeed most map-hackers kids doesn't codes themselves the maphack, they download/buy it, from public sites, so i guess it's not that hard if Blizzard had a competent dedicated team on it. Blizzard should understand maphack ruin the game experience for players. If you play only 1 cheater on 100 ladder games it's not a big deal, but when in GM/top ranked 2v2/3v3/archon/whatever you play 5 times the same team in 10 games, and this team cheats, it's totally ruining the experience, so people quit.
Then with the top ranked 2v2/etc scene being obliterated, nobody stream it/train it/make competition, and so a lot of casual players will not get inspirited/follow/etc.
Team games can be super nice in SC2, and it's very good for casuals (social interaction with friends), introducing a noob friend to SC2, combating ladder anxiety, etc. Sadly it's not now very popular in SC2, because this issues and some other (maps, full air/mech BS meta, etc.). Blizzard should (have) paid more attention. Not the 1v1 GM ladder dosen't mean not important for the game and player base.
*Impossible to prevent without non trivial performance/stability issues. That paper sounds interesting (too bad its behind a paywall)
Otherwise a totally different human approach to mitigating maphack can be to trust more the players and give them more control on the ladder.
Let's say some account is being reported as a cheater way lot more than the basal rate. Blizzard won't do anything (if he is not top GM/WCS qualifying/etc), we know it. But you can give the option to other players of blocking him from matchmaking versus you. In Real Life, people simply won't play with you if you cheats every time. With proper safeguarding (can only block 5 active accounts, ..), i can see it as a simple, non-costly and easy-to-implement way to mitigating the worst experiences inflicted by map-hackers. Then one dude like him could not ruin the 2v2/etc. scene for the top 15 teams. He could make a new account, but : -If a new account is created from the same IP/PC fingerprint, inherit the list of people blocking you. -Will have to re-climb the ladder, can't show off their MMR and repeatedly abuses the same legit players (cheaters favorite activity)
On June 07 2019 05:37 xongnox wrote: I agree with Protech too : he is a know maphacker, and cheated for years, and not at all "only one time 4 years ago".
The issue is not him being banned now, it's him not being banned for life a long long time ago. He (and a few others) ruined top team play in 2v2 (3v3) for months here and here, a lot of people stopped playing top team play because him cheating for years without being banned.
Everyone who played him enough times in team play knows he cheats, and yet this dude even keeps the same nickname, as big as a "Big F***" to the community you can make. And blizzard let this dude ruin the game experience for tens or hundreds of legit players. For years. And now, getting caught a second time (in 5+ years of continuously maphacking at least ), he get the balls to whine. Unreal.
On June 07 2019 05:37 xongnox wrote: I agree with Protech too : he is a know maphacker, and cheated for years, and not at all "only one time 4 years ago".
The issue is not him being banned now, it's him not being banned for life a long long time ago. He (and a few others) ruined top team play in 2v2 (3v3) for months here and here, a lot of people stopped playing top team play because him cheating for years without being banned.
Everyone who played him enough times in team play knows he cheats, and yet this dude even keeps the same nickname, as big as a "Big F***" to the community you can make. And blizzard let this dude ruin the game experience for tens or hundreds of legit players. For years. And now, getting caught a second time (in 5+ years of continuously maphacking at least ), he get the balls to whine. Unreal.
Let's not forget the henchmen he created over the years that still to this day muck up our team ladder.
LoadBlaster Prototype ( EU ) StellarMango BrotienShake
All these guys stream snipe me for 5 hours + per stream and blatantly map hack.
PureLegacy started that garbage in team games and it's not gonna end with him now.
honestly, at this point, I believe whatever Protech says. Even if he thinks andren0chr0me is best taken intravenously like stem-cells
On June 07 2019 04:24 ProTech wrote: Been trying to get the community to realize this for months. Too bad no one listens to me even to this day :/
That's because you accuse everyone of hacking, you just got lucky being right in this instance.
I accuse hackers, not everyone or even close to it. Never have, never will.
Its not because purelegacy has been caught again that u are the "god of finding cheaters". U called way too much legit people "cheaters" during ur streaming career. I am not gonna give manner lessons but you obviously have a huge ego, sometimes delusional, like some featured streamers. Not as bad as avilo but far from being a respectful player. Dont try me because i could prolly list a hundred legit players u called cheater.
Anyways, i am glad purelegacy is banned and i hope a ban on his smurf accounts too, the ones he is using to harass people.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
The state is decade behind on that one, I called the police last week when my "friend" cheated at GoFish and they didn't even have the decency to put him in custody.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
The state is decade behind on that one, I called the police last week when my "friend" cheated at GoFish and they didn't even have the decency to put him in custody.
This is obviously just because you live in Canada. Our police would have shot him 29 times and poured cocaine all over the body.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
Yes, and better start with the youngest first. I promise you, a 13 year old will not cheat again once he gets released after a 5 year sentence!
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
That sentence is too light, the only justice would be the electric chair.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
The state is decade behind on that one, I called the police last week when my "friend" cheated at GoFish and they didn't even have the decency to put him in custody.
This is obviously just because you live in Canada. Our police would have shot him 29 times and poured cocaine all over the body.
On June 07 2019 04:42 Ej_ wrote: Only took 4(?) years and the guy to get top 5 GM :D
No, actually if you were tracking his account you could see that after being a full time 2v2 player ( for 9 years ) he got to top 16 GM in less than 2,000 games.
I can assure you that's not possible.
I have watched his stream many years ago (like 5) and he was very fast player with good macro and good micro. I favoured watch him above many GMs and even most pro players. Obviously he could be top GM long time ago, just needed to knew 1v1 BO and responses.
On June 07 2019 14:09 Stormhoof wrote: If this hacking happened 4-5 years ago and guy didnt hacked during qualifiers, this is plain dumb.
On June 07 2019 20:53 stilt wrote: Getting banned for an offense commited on ladder 4y ago ? Nice one Blizzard.
On June 07 2019 17:20 SnowAngel wrote: There is proof that he hacked in 2v2 AND 4v4 years ago, but I doubt he has done it after that, not with his main account anyway. I'd like to believe him that he hasn't hacked since, not with his main account anyway, but since he didn't get properly punished back in the day, so it was due time. It's difficult to defend a toxic guy, but I don't hate him like many do. I hope he has learned his lesson now and uninstalls all lurking and tempting cheating software from his computer.
Blizzard says that he hacked recently - not 4-5 years ago - on the ladder and banned him from SC2 AGAIN for that.
An sc2 ban at any point during WCS disqualifies you from further competition in that event.
So many low post count accounts that are very quick to defend the word of an infamous serial hacker without even reading the statements that Blizzard made about the issue.
It's not even like he was permabanned, there doesn't seem to have been a disciplinary action kicking him out of future WCS or even this one - he got swapped out for another player because the rules say that you can't compete while your account is in bad standing, AKA literally during a ban for hacking.
On June 07 2019 17:20 SnowAngel wrote: There is proof that he hacked in 2v2 AND 4v4 years ago, but I doubt he has done it after that, not with his main account anyway. I'd like to believe him that he hasn't hacked since, not with his main account anyway, but since he didn't get properly punished back in the day, so it was due time. It's difficult to defend a toxic guy, but I don't hate him like many do. I hope he has learned his lesson now and uninstalls all lurking and tempting cheating software from his computer.
Blizzard says that he hacked recently - not 4-5 years ago - on the ladder and banned him from SC2 AGAIN for that.
An sc2 ban at any point during WCS disqualifies you from further competition in that event.
So many low post count accounts that are very quick to defend the word of an infamous serial hacker without even reading the statements that Blizzard made about the issue.
Yeah people definitely don't understand the tweet from blizzard.
He got banned for hacking during his ladder sessions. Whether he was caught in a banwave or targeted investigation is uncertain.
The point is, he cheated his way to his rank that allowed him to compete in the first place, hence the life time ban he received.
All that i've seen so far is that he got banned from SC2 for some amount of time for recent hacking and as a consequence can't compete in the current WCS. I haven't heard anything about sc2 ban duration or future competition bans
On June 07 2019 17:20 SnowAngel wrote: There is proof that he hacked in 2v2 AND 4v4 years ago, but I doubt he has done it after that, not with his main account anyway. I'd like to believe him that he hasn't hacked since, not with his main account anyway, but since he didn't get properly punished back in the day, so it was due time. It's difficult to defend a toxic guy, but I don't hate him like many do. I hope he has learned his lesson now and uninstalls all lurking and tempting cheating software from his computer.
Blizzard says that he hacked recently - not 4-5 years ago - on the ladder and banned him from SC2 AGAIN for that.
An sc2 ban at any point during WCS disqualifies you from further competition in that event.
So many low post count accounts that are very quick to defend the word of an infamous serial hacker without even reading the statements that Blizzard made about the issue.
It's not even like he was permabanned, there doesn't seem to have been a disciplinary action kicking him out of future WCS or even this one - he got swapped out for another player because the rules say that you can't compete while your account is in bad standing, AKA literally during a ban for hacking.
Even more low posts account are criticizing him, not that I really care contrary to you, dunno what you're trying to imply, seems like unspoken stuffs). That said, considering the strong antagonisms between na players, it's quite normal. Anyway I tend to actually believe him yes, especially with this kind of post : "To clarify: While no cheats were detected during the open qualifiers, a player whose account is no longer in good standing is ineligible to compete based on Rule 3.1.a in the WCS Rules." Ok, we know this guy cheated at some point, the rules are the rules but considering the lenght of an esport carrer, I think a statute of limitations should apply too, it's not as if he matchfixed. Finally, even if you are "the rules are the rules" kind of mentality it's weird they didn't ban him before and waited for this.
Ok, we know this guy cheated at some point, the rules are the rules but considering the lenght of an esport carrer, I think a statute of limitations should apply too, it's not as if he matchfixed. Finally, even if you are "the rules are the rules" kind of mentality it's weird they didn't ban him before and waited for this.
You're still talking about cheating "at some point" and statute of limitations stuff, so i guess that some people missed the bolded quotes and still don't understand the current situation
The problem is not that he was destroying the game 5 years ago, it's that he continued to do it to the current day until he recieved yet another sc2 ban for hacking on the ladder in 2019.
I don't have any obsession with the guy or negative intent. I do firmly believe that the correct information should be laid out cleanly and clearly so that well-meaning posters aren't misled by the tsunami of strongly opinionated but poorly educated posters on the topic.
On June 07 2019 14:09 Stormhoof wrote: If this hacking happened 4-5 years ago and guy didnt hacked during qualifiers, this is plain dumb.
On June 07 2019 20:53 stilt wrote: Getting banned for an offense commited on ladder 4y ago ? Nice one Blizzard.
On June 07 2019 17:20 SnowAngel wrote: There is proof that he hacked in 2v2 AND 4v4 years ago, but I doubt he has done it after that, not with his main account anyway. I'd like to believe him that he hasn't hacked since, not with his main account anyway, but since he didn't get properly punished back in the day, so it was due time. It's difficult to defend a toxic guy, but I don't hate him like many do. I hope he has learned his lesson now and uninstalls all lurking and tempting cheating software from his computer.
Blizzard says that he hacked recently - not 4-5 years ago - on the ladder and banned him from SC2 AGAIN for that.
An sc2 ban at any point during WCS disqualifies you from further competition in that event.
So many low post count accounts that are very quick to defend the word of an infamous serial hacker without even reading the statements that Blizzard made about the issue.
It's not even like he was permabanned, there doesn't seem to have been a disciplinary action kicking him out of future WCS or even this one - he got swapped out for another player because the rules say that you can't compete while your account is in bad standing, AKA literally during a ban for hacking.
Even more low posts account are criticizing him, not that I really care contrary to you, dunno what you're trying to imply, seems like unspoken stuffs). That said, considering the strong antagonisms between na players, it's quite normal. Anyway I tend to actually believe him yes, especially with this kind of post : "To clarify: While no cheats were detected during the open qualifiers, a player whose account is no longer in good standing is ineligible to compete based on Rule 3.1.a in the WCS Rules." Ok, we know this guy cheated at some point, the rules are the rules but considering the lenght of an esport carrer, I think a statute of limitations should apply too, it's not as if he matchfixed. Finally, even if you are "the rules are the rules" kind of mentality it's weird they didn't ban him before and waited for this.
Hacking is maybe not match fixing level bad at the competitive pro levels, it’s worse for a game overall.
I’ve seen cheaters get rehabilitated into other scenes, generally they do a full mea culpa, maybe take a break, or work hard to give something back to their community and earn their way back in.
I feel that standard is ok, I’m pretty sure some prominent SC2 figures who are greatly respected now, hacker or did something like win-trading in BW.
From what I’ve read in thread this guy hacked just for the sake of it, then hacked close enough to a Challenger qualification and got caught, years later. And is toxic to boot apparently, although I don’t know the guy.
Yes second chances, I’m sick of the onus being on decent players and people to just suck up toxic behaviour. It’s been 20 years and I’m thoroughly sick of ‘it’s the internet.’
I’m happy to give second chances, sure but there are mistakes and there are habitual behaviour, and there are folks who genuinely feel bad and those who feel bad they’ve been caught.
All that i've seen so far is that he got banned from SC2 for some amount of time for recent hacking and as a consequence can't compete in the current WCS. I haven't heard anything about sc2 ban duration or future competition bans
He streamed for about an hour last night, and said that it was a life time ban.
All that i've seen so far is that he got banned from SC2 for some amount of time for recent hacking and as a consequence can't compete in the current WCS. I haven't heard anything about sc2 ban duration or future competition bans
He streamed for about an hour last night, and said that it was a life time ban.
I'm shocked at the amount of people that would give him a slip, just because he didn't hack in the qualifier. This person is a toxic member of the community who cheats on the ladder and proceeds by sh1t talking his opponent and trying to enrage them, since they are already tilted from playing a map hacker. He should have been perma banned 4 years ago.
I think Rotti is wrong on that, perhaps he wasn’t aware prior to the interview, but otherwise he asked pretty decent questions. Think he’s definitely right on his closing thoughts, streamers throwing around hacking accusations far too loosely vs random players who have no real platform to reply or defend themselves is obnoxious.
On June 08 2019 10:15 MrFreeman wrote: I'm shocked at the amount of people that would give him a slip, just because he didn't hack in the qualifier. This person is a toxic member of the community who cheats on the ladder and proceeds by sh1t talking his opponent and trying to enrage them, since they are already tilted from playing a map hacker. He should have been perma banned 4 years ago.
I guess people are defending him because all we know for a fact is that he hacked 4 years ago. ProTech and others say he continued hacking but we have no proof for it except their word. The question is if Blizzard meant with "recent" hacking the hacking from 4 years ago or if he was caught hacking again. Being BM on ladder isn't an offence that deserves to get you banned.
On June 08 2019 10:15 MrFreeman wrote: I'm shocked at the amount of people that would give him a slip, just because he didn't hack in the qualifier. This person is a toxic member of the community who cheats on the ladder and proceeds by sh1t talking his opponent and trying to enrage them, since they are already tilted from playing a map hacker. He should have been perma banned 4 years ago.
I guess people are defending him because all we know for a fact is that he hacked 4 years ago. ProTech and others say he continued hacking but we have no proof for it except their word. The question is if Blizzard meant with "recent" hacking the hacking from 4 years ago or if he was caught hacking again. Being BM on ladder isn't an offence that deserves to get you banned.
Actually it is, you can get banned for that, it rarely happens, true, but it can get you banned.
We know for a fact he has hacked recently, because the official announcement is that. How recent, that we dont know, but 4 years ago is not recently by any means, there have been ban-waves since then. Hell, LotV isnt more than 4 years old, it was released in November 2015
Unless you're saying that the Blizzard officials are flat out lying, and why the hell would they do that here?
On June 08 2019 10:15 MrFreeman wrote: I'm shocked at the amount of people that would give him a slip, just because he didn't hack in the qualifier. This person is a toxic member of the community who cheats on the ladder and proceeds by sh1t talking his opponent and trying to enrage them, since they are already tilted from playing a map hacker. He should have been perma banned 4 years ago.
I guess people are defending him because all we know for a fact is that he hacked 4 years ago. ProTech and others say he continued hacking but we have no proof for it except their word. The question is if Blizzard meant with "recent" hacking the hacking from 4 years ago or if he was caught hacking again. Being BM on ladder isn't an offence that deserves to get you banned.
Actually it is, you can get banned for that, it rarely happens, true, but it can get you banned.
We know for a fact he has hacked recently, because the official announcement is that. How recent, that we dont know, but 4 years ago is not recently by any means, there have been ban-waves since then. Hell, LotV isnt more than 4 years old, it was released in November 2015
Unless you're saying that the Blizzard officials are flat out lying, and why the hell would they do that here?
Blizzard could be more forthcoming with specifics perhaps, what else can ‘...due to a hacks review of recent play’ possibly mean other than he was hacking recently and got caught?
As far as I’m aware ban waves are not reliable at scrubbing all the hackers, but they don’t generate false positives either.
Absolute best case scenario the guy hacked for a short period years ago, a short period recently and not at all in between those periods.
I’m browsing reddit on the topic and the amount of ‘you can’t just ban a player for being BM’ style comments are blowing my brain.
Maybe our community would be better off if we spent less energy giving the benefit of the doubt to toxic figures, especially if they don’t even read why the person was bloody banned first.
If the guy has been hacking again, even once, after the previous ban of 4 years ago, I'm 100% behind Blizzard decision. Anyway, if he legit played every game since 2015, I think that the best thing to do is to forgive and to let him play again. He was basically a kid when he hacked and we all made dumb mistakes at that age, that we shouldn't be marked forever for. I've never liked Purelegacy, but watching him almost crying at the end of Rotti's video, left me a bad gut feeling. Sometimes we forget that behind a nickname on battlenet there's a person, with all of his struggles that we may never know. Maybe Starcraft is his escape, who knows..
On June 08 2019 10:15 MrFreeman wrote: I'm shocked at the amount of people that would give him a slip, just because he didn't hack in the qualifier. This person is a toxic member of the community who cheats on the ladder and proceeds by sh1t talking his opponent and trying to enrage them, since they are already tilted from playing a map hacker. He should have been perma banned 4 years ago.
I guess people are defending him because all we know for a fact is that he hacked 4 years ago. ProTech and others say he continued hacking but we have no proof for it except their word. The question is if Blizzard meant with "recent" hacking the hacking from 4 years ago or if he was caught hacking again. Being BM on ladder isn't an offence that deserves to get you banned.
Actually it is, you can get banned for that, it rarely happens, true, but it can get you banned.
True but it depends on the kind of BM. A simple "get out scrub" certainly isn't enough to get banned
biggest fucking joke ever. i'll never forget the time in 2015 or something where this kid(literally at the time) was hacking and reaper proxied me, killed my main and natural, i expoed to 3rd on Catallena with a colo and a few gates and ended up winning on 1 base all while he was shit talking me and telling me to leave cuz i was awful and was losing to reapers.
Look, people need to take a more aggressive approach to shit heads like this than vs avilo. Avilo had problems as we can all see retrospectively, and we shouldn't encourage that. That's okay to understand.
But, as other people have been posting, PL has literally been ruining 2v2 queue with his friends for YEARS while hacking. Anyone who seriously plays or understands how 2v2 works just knows that statistically his scores are nonsensical, as are his friends.
As I've always said ProTech and I aren't best friends or anything, but he certainly gets some things right. And these guys cheat in ever sense of it, from stream cheating as even other streamers like upatree have stated, to just hacking. It's hilariously stupid anyone would even give this guy the time of day.
So, in short, i have no idea why rotti decided to interview this guy. i have no idea why it took so long for blizzard to do anything (prob cuz the latest hacks that have been around for a while now have just been undetected forever). and i have nothing but happiness that i was able to retweet the WCS post a few days ago and reply to that reddit post.
srsly, F people who ruin other legit players experiences in events.
Is everybody ignoring the obvious? Blizz quoted their own rules saying that accounts that are not in good standing are not allowed to play in WCS. Even *if* it was only for the old offenses, if his account never regained good standing... perfectly consistent with the rules even if you personally find it unfair.
On June 08 2019 11:22 Wombat_NI wrote: I think Rotti is wrong on that, perhaps he wasn’t aware prior to the interview, but otherwise he asked pretty decent questions. Think he’s definitely right on his closing thoughts, streamers throwing around hacking accusations far too loosely vs random players who have no real platform to reply or defend themselves is obnoxious.
I dont disagree witb his closing statement eithet but no matter how you look at it has contradiction written all over it. I cant help but think that hes trying to get the community and blizzard a second chance to someone who just blew his second chance
There was a similar situation in 2017 https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/520630-2017-wcs-challenger-north-america-ruling "In the course of our investigation, we discovered that Vindicta was one of several players logging into accounts that had been actioned for hacking in the past, and also had known hackers logging onto accounts under his name. In light of this, Vindicta has received a ban from play through WCS Austin and WCS Jönköping Challengers and main event, and his position in the WCS Challenger North America Playoffs has been revoked."
????? so they somehow was able to determine Vindicta was account sharing with hackers under his own account(s) and he himself wasn't hacking?
Vindicta is currently playing in WCS, so I wonder if Blizz will give Purelegacy a second chance if "recent" hacking meant before LotV.
Blizz just needs to clarify if he got swooped with the recent Ban wave because of his hacking 4 years ago or more recently, especially since he swore he hasn't during that time. And even if he got swooped because of what he did 4 years ago and he has to sit this one out, then so be it. If Blizz just believed hearsay of popular community figures and this is a witch hunt, then Rotti did well in warning us of what we are becoming.
I seriously doubt it's hearsay. They specifically stated that it was based on an "investigation" into "recent" hacking.
It's only a few pretty clear sentences. Should they write an essay about why they're permabanning hackers each time that they make a new account and hack again? Third chances, maybe, after consistently being one of the worst community members possible over a 5 year period?
More information would be good but in this case i don't hold it against them at all. They've said all that was reasonably necessary.
---
????? so they somehow was able to determine Vindicta was account sharing with hackers under his own account(s) and he himself wasn't hacking?
They have a disgusting amount of technical data which all players must agree to being harvested when they install and play the game; yes, they're technically capable of making that kind of judgement accurately. We have no reason to believe that they lied about it or were not thorough in their investigation.. nor do we have any reason to believe that any other investigation (e.g. PureLegacy's) was held to lower standards.
I trust the SC2 team. They actually seem quite lenient on bans, allowing hackers and some real sociopaths abusing mechanics to ruin the game for dozens of people for years rather than banning somebody that doesn't 1000% deserve it, let alone permanently banning them twice.
As you say, Vindicta wasn't permabanned for his shady activity. He was only removed from a couple of events and then life goes on. Blizzard does give people second chances and there are shades of grey between no action and permaban, it's just that PureLegacy ended up in permaban territory because of the extreme scale and duration of his rule breaking.
On June 08 2019 23:06 naughtDE wrote: Blizz just needs to clarify if he got swooped with the recent Ban wave because of his hacking 4 years ago or more recently, especially since he swore he hasn't during that time. And even if he got swooped because of what he did 4 years ago and he has to sit this one out, then so be it. If Blizz just believed hearsay of popular community figures and this is a witch hunt, then Rotti did well in warning us of what we are becoming.
Maybe, Rotti’s position seemed to be informed by an understanding that a combination of 2015 hacking and other poor conduct made up the rationale for his ban.
I and many others here interpret the wording of the statement and other things to mean he was banned for hacking a pretty short time ago, and possibly was part of the most recent ban wave for it. I don’t think Rotti had that information because he didn’t bring it up at all, I don’t think he takes the stance he did if he was privy to it.
Nobody really, outside of historians, scientists dealing with long-term phenomena, people analysing cultural trends etc uses the word ‘recent’ to mean 4 years ago.
What we have become, and have been for some time is way too tolerant of shitty behaviour because ‘the scene needs characters’ or ‘it’s entertaining’ other such justifications. People were defending Avilo on Reddit even after Twitch banned him and the police were involved.
Why is the onus on people to just tolerate bullshit and not on people to just grow up and be functional adults? If the 2v2 guys in this thread, a scene I don’t know or care for particularly are saying that between cheating and other obnoxious behaviour he actually ruined the competitive end of the scene in NA, and multiple 1v1 players have said the same subsequently on the obnoxious behaviour end, and have said so for quite some time that’s really not a witch hunt that’s a consistent pattern of behaviour.
None of his answers really pass muster against that IMO. If he’s in need of good practice, I don’t know maybe do the rather common practice partner thing? I just don’t think he’s being honest at all in the interview with Rotti.
If we were even a quarter as tolerant of casters who aren’t Tastosis or other favourites that would be a marked improvement.
To me anyone's "Second Chance" timer begins at the moment they take responsibility, apologize and reform their behaviour.
It's very clear from Rotti's interview he still takes zero responsibility for what he did, he's still blaming others, he's still claiming he doesn't actually open his opponent's streams, that these players are all just lying and he's "just laddering"
He's banned from all these chats and he 'can't remember' why.
Nothing he said had any ring of truth whatsoever and all the blame is on other people, he's the victim, there's nothing he can do and the other people hate him for no good reason blah blah blah.
I don't understand why people feel the need to give people like this '2nd chances' when they're not the least bit sorry.
It's always these people who are complete assholes for years that then turn to the community and want goodwill or something when they finally get caught.
It's always these people who are complete assholes for years that then turn to the community and want goodwill or something when they finally get caught.
Caught 5 years ago, said he would reform, didn't reform, caught again.
My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate.
I think this is a super good point, Blizzard seems to often take the stance of 'We'll decide once it matters' Then you've got these ineligible players knocking out other people and Blizzard just ignores it until someone qualifying forces them to make a decision.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
He got detected/banned for hacking after the qualifier and blizzard can't go back in time to tell him not to bother signing up. How are they supposed to know who they are going to detect hacking before they catch them?
People may be perfectly eligible to compete, win a qualifier and then later go on to break game rules that get their accounts suspended/banned. That will get them kicked out of the tournament immediately because it's part of the rules, just as happened here.
On June 07 2019 04:16 atira_sc2 wrote: This is absurd. There's no way my sweetheart is hacking/cheating in anyway. Blizzard is just doing this out of peer pressure of the community.
StarCraft has a community?! I thought it died a long time ago!
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
He got the ban for hacking on ladder around the same time and that sc2 account ban didn't happen until after the qualifier. What do you want them to do, go back in time?
Communicate a bit better I suppose? Was something I pondered myself. I mean these kinda bans aren’t common, clarifying things a bit better both cuts through people trying to defend him from a position of misunderstanding, but also sends a message out to anyone thinking of hacking in future.
Granted as some people read a statement that talks about recent hacks and whatnot and responses here and on reddit are arguing that you shouldn’t be banned for being BM, or old hacks shouldn’t DQ you for this etc, perhaps communication at Blizzard’s end isn’t the issue
on reddit are arguing that you shouldn’t be banned for being BM, or old hacks shouldn’t DQ you for this etc
When these people don't read the approximately 5 sentences of rock solid information that we have on the situation i don't think that there's anything that you can do to help them. Best we can do is make the situation clear so that people who take a few seconds looking for that information don't get misled by the crowds.
I mean these kinda bans aren’t common
Hackers get banned quite regularly. The uncommon part is that one of those active hackers qualified for WCS meanwhile, potentially without hacking during the actual qualifier.
Ya I'm actually surprised Nate and Ting let him win that 2v2 tournament back in 2015. Such obvious hacking, why wouldn't they take the prize money and give it to the runner up? That was a good 2v2 tourney, beside legacy and larry, I wish Ting or some other sponsor would do that every year.
didn't watch the video but now i've lost ALL respect for rotti, what is he doing ??? purelagacy is the scum of starcraft, he should be left in the dust without another word.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
I just don't understand why 2v2 hacking is presented as minor either. It's like, once a cheater, always a cheater, lifetime ban. That's what happens to matchfixers, cheaters, and hackers. That's the deterrence. It shows shockingly bad judgement and the lifetime ban is needed to prevent those things from happening, or casting ethics questions on the games.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
He got detected/banned for hacking after the qualifier and blizzard can't go back in time to tell him not to bother signing up. How are they supposed to know who they are going to detect hacking before they catch them?
People may be perfectly eligible to compete, win a qualifier and then later go on to break game rules that get their accounts suspended/banned. That will get them kicked out of the tournament immediately because it's part of the rules, just as happened here.
Well they could do these kind of checks BEFORE the qualifiers?
In the other case, that he was detected for hacking after the qualifiers, they didn't really mention it in the post linked in the original post. They could easily stated a rough time frame for this to avoid much of this discussion. "Recent" doesn't really tell me if it's before or after the qualifiers. And yes it does leave open the interpretation of up to 4 years, because they chose not to be specific. Not likely, but possible.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
Because even people who are for sure guilty need to be able to defend themselves? Because blatant lies sometimes (actually often) are not as blatant as they are claimed? Because we shoot first and ask questions later?
Because interpreting that Rotterdam is defending PureLegacy is wrong? Although I do get why one could think so, but we should not if we were in an ideal world.
Because we are not that dumb yet, that we need other people to decide our opinion?
Because people try to supress the "wrong opinion" rather than deal with its contents? And that is also rather worrying?
On June 08 2019 23:06 naughtDE wrote: Blizz just needs to clarify if he got swooped with the recent Ban wave because of his hacking 4 years ago or more recently, especially since he swore he hasn't during that time. And even if he got swooped because of what he did 4 years ago and he has to sit this one out, then so be it. If Blizz just believed hearsay of popular community figures and this is a witch hunt, then Rotti did well in warning us of what we are becoming.
Maybe, Rotti’s position seemed to be informed by an understanding that a combination of 2015 hacking and other poor conduct made up the rationale for his ban.
I and many others here interpret the wording of the statement and other things to mean he was banned for hacking a pretty short time ago, and possibly was part of the most recent ban wave for it. I don’t think Rotti had that information because he didn’t bring it up at all, I don’t think he takes the stance he did if he was privy to it.
Nobody really, outside of historians, scientists dealing with long-term phenomena, people analysing cultural trends etc uses the word ‘recent’ to mean 4 years ago.
What we have become, and have been for some time is way too tolerant of shitty behaviour because ‘the scene needs characters’ or ‘it’s entertaining’ other such justifications. People were defending Avilo on Reddit even after Twitch banned him and the police were involved.
Why is the onus on people to just tolerate bullshit and not on people to just grow up and be functional adults? If the 2v2 guys in this thread, a scene I don’t know or care for particularly are saying that between cheating and other obnoxious behaviour he actually ruined the competitive end of the scene in NA, and multiple 1v1 players have said the same subsequently on the obnoxious behaviour end, and have said so for quite some time that’s really not a witch hunt that’s a consistent pattern of behaviour.
None of his answers really pass muster against that IMO. If he’s in need of good practice, I don’t know maybe do the rather common practice partner thing? I just don’t think he’s being honest at all in the interview with Rotti.
If we were even a quarter as tolerant of casters who aren’t Tastosis or other favourites that would be a marked improvement.
My impression of him was very dishonest during that interview as well. That was my impression. For me personally, recent does not mean 4 years ago either, then again, How long did it take Blizzard to fix Infestors in WoL...right, they didn't and they don't seem to be very punctual when it comes to dealing with hackers (soon™). So while they are not historians or scientists dealing with long-term phenomena, they are a company I deem capable of calling four years ago recent. And I also agree with you that we are way to tolerant of terrible behavior, that is why I wrote, even if his hacking four years ago gets punished now I wouldn't mind. I still mind that Blizzard does not simply clarify if he is the lying bastard we assume he is by simply clarifying if he got banned because of how much the community dislikes him or if he actually cheated during the last four years. Until then ,and I share your viewpoint, however, until then we are just rambling on like the rest of the idiots in this thread without crucial pieces of information that could steer this discussion in a meaningful direction...information Blizzard should just disclose.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
Just to hone in on some key points of what you wrote -- "Every reliable source contradicts that assertion" -- The only msg from Blizzard was a tweet stating his account recently hacked. -- There is no date on that, for all I know, recent goes by the hack of 4 years ago. If I stated Tod in Recent years went from Progamer in sc2, to commentator it wouldn't be wrong, and from a company like Blizzard that has used "Soon" as a statement for 2-3 years +, I don't think relying on that meaning what ever you want it to mean is accurate either.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this. If it really was back in 2015 that he hacked in 2v2, and that was it (back when he was what, 16?) -- Would you really feel it'd still be wrong, and should be perma banned period? Because if so, that's another case for disagreement rather than just believing he's lying.
Maybe I'm just a more forgiving person in that regard, but honestly I feel a lot of people are judging more based off character, which I agree, the stream sniping and bming/flaming isn't cool at all, and for the record, everything I've seen makes me dislike him as a person, and I really think he needs to grow up. BUT we aren't talking about banning him based off those reasons, purely based on the hacking which again, if it was recent, and by that I mean has continually hacked/cheated past 2015 and onwards, then I totally agree with a ban. BUT how can I know, and without Blizzard releasing specifics, the only thing I can say is, if he hasn't done it since 2015, then yeah, I think the whole thing was handled very poorly.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
Just to hone in on some key points of what you wrote -- "Every reliable source contradicts that assertion" -- The only msg from Blizzard was a tweet stating his account recently hacked. -- There is no date on that, for all I know, recent goes by the hack of 4 years ago. If I stated Tod in Recent years went from Progamer in sc2, to commentator it wouldn't be wrong, and from a company like Blizzard that has used "Soon" as a statement for 2-3 years +, I don't think relying on that meaning what ever you want it to mean is accurate either.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this. If it really was back in 2015 that he hacked in 2v2, and that was it (back when he was what, 16?) -- Would you really feel it'd still be wrong, and should be perma banned period? Because if so, that's another case for disagreement rather than just believing he's lying.
Maybe I'm just a more forgiving person in that regard, but honestly I feel a lot of people are judging more based off character, which I agree, the stream sniping and bming/flaming isn't cool at all, and for the record, everything I've seen makes me dislike him as a person, and I really think he needs to grow up. BUT we aren't talking about banning him based off those reasons, purely based on the hacking which again, if it was recent, and by that I mean has continually hacked/cheated past 2015 and onwards, then I totally agree with a ban. BUT how can I know, and without Blizzard releasing specifics, the only thing I can say is, if he hasn't done it since 2015, then yeah, I think the whole thing was handled very poorly.
Forgiving? lolllll. The guy was still harassing streamers recently (harassing isnt snipping). U seems ez forgiving when its not u being a victim of a nerd ruining ur ladder experience. Beastyqt, jason, protech, avilo, tons of small streamers. Hey man, keep supporting this kind of behavior, its no big deal lolllll
There is something called production tab hack, it gives u an advantage in a game even if you dont see the map. How do u think this player reached top gm the first time xD .Seeing "big" streamers defending this clown cracks me up.
There is only one thing to do in this case, unfollow a streamer supporting cheats and harassement behavior.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
Just to hone in on some key points of what you wrote -- "Every reliable source contradicts that assertion" -- The only msg from Blizzard was a tweet stating his account recently hacked. -- There is no date on that, for all I know, recent goes by the hack of 4 years ago. If I stated Tod in Recent years went from Progamer in sc2, to commentator it wouldn't be wrong, and from a company like Blizzard that has used "Soon" as a statement for 2-3 years +, I don't think relying on that meaning what ever you want it to mean is accurate either.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this. If it really was back in 2015 that he hacked in 2v2, and that was it (back when he was what, 16?) -- Would you really feel it'd still be wrong, and should be perma banned period? Because if so, that's another case for disagreement rather than just believing he's lying.
Maybe I'm just a more forgiving person in that regard, but honestly I feel a lot of people are judging more based off character, which I agree, the stream sniping and bming/flaming isn't cool at all, and for the record, everything I've seen makes me dislike him as a person, and I really think he needs to grow up. BUT we aren't talking about banning him based off those reasons, purely based on the hacking which again, if it was recent, and by that I mean has continually hacked/cheated past 2015 and onwards, then I totally agree with a ban. BUT how can I know, and without Blizzard releasing specifics, the only thing I can say is, if he hasn't done it since 2015, then yeah, I think the whole thing was handled very poorly.
Forgiving? lolllll. The guy was still harassing streamers recently (harassing isnt snipping). U seems ez forgiving when its not u being a victim of a nerd ruining ur ladder experience. Beastyqt, jason, protech, avilo, tons of small streamers. Hey man, keep supporting this kind of behavior, its no big deal lolllll
There is something called production tab hack, it gives u an advantage in a game even if you dont see the map. How do u think this player reached top gm the first time xD .Seeing "big" streamers defending this clown cracks me up.
There is only one thing to do in this case, unfollow a streamer supporting cheats and harassement behavior.
Yeah, Demu just exactly stated, that he acknowledge he isn't the best character and rolemodel around, but we should base our decesions on information, not on his character.
Edit> Did you read it?
Edit2 > also quite weird choice to mention Avilo in the "victim" side of people who are being harassed
Blizz should just clarify that he was not banned for hacking in 2015, but for something more recent if that is the case, so everybody could move on and Demu, Rotti and other good people would not have to play devil's advocate.
Blizz is justt making it worse with their cryptic tweets.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
Just to hone in on some key points of what you wrote -- "Every reliable source contradicts that assertion" -- The only msg from Blizzard was a tweet stating his account recently hacked. -- There is no date on that, for all I know, recent goes by the hack of 4 years ago. If I stated Tod in Recent years went from Progamer in sc2, to commentator it wouldn't be wrong, and from a company like Blizzard that has used "Soon" as a statement for 2-3 years +, I don't think relying on that meaning what ever you want it to mean is accurate either.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this. If it really was back in 2015 that he hacked in 2v2, and that was it (back when he was what, 16?) -- Would you really feel it'd still be wrong, and should be perma banned period? Because if so, that's another case for disagreement rather than just believing he's lying.
Maybe I'm just a more forgiving person in that regard, but honestly I feel a lot of people are judging more based off character, which I agree, the stream sniping and bming/flaming isn't cool at all, and for the record, everything I've seen makes me dislike him as a person, and I really think he needs to grow up. BUT we aren't talking about banning him based off those reasons, purely based on the hacking which again, if it was recent, and by that I mean has continually hacked/cheated past 2015 and onwards, then I totally agree with a ban. BUT how can I know, and without Blizzard releasing specifics, the only thing I can say is, if he hasn't done it since 2015, then yeah, I think the whole thing was handled very poorly.
So if blizzards statement isn't enough, surely you can go to youtube and look up some Purelegacy hack videos. They are strewn all over youtube, and then perhaps you can come to an educated decision yourself.
Seeing as how you have been invested into the scene for as long as you have, you should know that someone with the psychopath personality such as PureLegacy usually combos well with cheating in this game.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this.
The antihack account ban that kicked him out of WCS happened after the qualifier, that's the reason that was announced for him not being able to play
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
Let's hope you'll never have power in a country.
LMAO, i was thinking the same thing. At the very least, no mas BOD.
On June 07 2019 21:41 MockHamill wrote: Every cheater should be banned for life. I look forward to the day when cheating in multiplayer games will give you a lengthy prison sentence.
The state is decade behind on that one, I called the police last week when my "friend" cheated at GoFish and they didn't even have the decency to put him in custody.
This is obviously just because you live in Canada. Our police would have shot him 29 times and poured cocaine all over the body.
On June 09 2019 14:51 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Rotti apparently trying to bait out views for his yt channel. Sad he would defend this guy
There have been some bizarre defenses from high profile people like Rotti and Demuslim.
They don't seem to have an understanding of the subject as i've seen both of them talk as if the issue and ban stems only from some 2v2 hacking in 2014-2015 which is not the case. They have based entire discussions on this information which has always been very clearly incorrect.
Every reliable source contradicts that assertion; the highest quality of which is the original source and announcement of the ban from Blizzard.
The only source that i can see saying that all of this came from some 2014 2v2 hacking is the accused himself, and what use is it to get your entire view of the situation by asking the banned person what happened and then accepting it as fact without so much as a glance at other sources? They've been misled but they left themselves wide open to it, especially Rotti. How can you make a 27 minute video discussing the ban without even reading the reason for the ban?
In repeating such dubious statements about the situation they are causing a lot of people - fans and general members of the community who trust them - to give credit to (most likely) blatant lies that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt*. I don't think it's something to hold against them but retractions/edits with more factually accurate information would clear up a lot.
*edit: Part of that may have even happened because Demuslim got his info about the subject from Rotti's video and repeated the incorrect information thirdhand.
Just to hone in on some key points of what you wrote -- "Every reliable source contradicts that assertion" -- The only msg from Blizzard was a tweet stating his account recently hacked. -- There is no date on that, for all I know, recent goes by the hack of 4 years ago. If I stated Tod in Recent years went from Progamer in sc2, to commentator it wouldn't be wrong, and from a company like Blizzard that has used "Soon" as a statement for 2-3 years +, I don't think relying on that meaning what ever you want it to mean is accurate either.
It was stated by Blizzard that he wasn't hacking in the WCS qualifier in which he qualified, but the account had a recent hacking violation -- I think there's a lot of things that could've been done a lot better, like not letting him in the qualifier in the first place if this was the case anyway. But the thing is, without specifics from Blizzard, I could be wrong, or anyone could be wrong with their view on this. If it really was back in 2015 that he hacked in 2v2, and that was it (back when he was what, 16?) -- Would you really feel it'd still be wrong, and should be perma banned period? Because if so, that's another case for disagreement rather than just believing he's lying.
Maybe I'm just a more forgiving person in that regard, but honestly I feel a lot of people are judging more based off character, which I agree, the stream sniping and bming/flaming isn't cool at all, and for the record, everything I've seen makes me dislike him as a person, and I really think he needs to grow up. BUT we aren't talking about banning him based off those reasons, purely based on the hacking which again, if it was recent, and by that I mean has continually hacked/cheated past 2015 and onwards, then I totally agree with a ban. BUT how can I know, and without Blizzard releasing specifics, the only thing I can say is, if he hasn't done it since 2015, then yeah, I think the whole thing was handled very poorly.
I respect you and Rotti for weighing in on difficult subjects, especially when it turns into utter flamefests like this.
While Blizzards meaning of "recent" can be interpreted both ways and there is no way to really know the truth that seems to me like splitting hairs.
Sure its not definite that Blizzards "recent play" isn't 4 years ago but it is pretty damn unlikely.
Consider the context, we have a known and previously banned cheater, that cheated for sure 2014-2015. If you were a Blizzard employee that knew this in what context would you write that he was banned due to "a hacks review of recent play"? In the context were he is banned because he cheated 2014 or the context where he is banned due to cheating this year?
Its just baffling, my guess would bethat Blizzard intentionally wrote "recent" in order for this discussion to never happen. As always even if you think you are communicating very clearly there will always be people that can find that slight opening to interpret something different.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
Even in normal sports, people are allowed back in after a year or two. One of the most popular examples is Maria Sharapova after she got caught doping was allowed to play WTA again. And don't get me started on cyclists... Sad but true
I agree that he should be unbanned, yes he ruined games for top team game players and 1v1ers in the past, but that is the past... It has been a long time since he was hacking, I know personally he has never hacked against me, countless times I have done 3:40 3base nydus against him and he has lost to it, or reacts after it is in his main. I have went through every replay I have played against him and there is no sign off hacking. We play often on the NA server. #freePL
On June 12 2019 01:09 ScrubbleS wrote: I agree that he should be unbanned, yes he ruined games for top team game players and 1v1ers in the past, but that is the past... It has been a long time since he was hacking, I know personally he has never hacked against me, countless times I have done 3:40 3base nydus against him and he has lost to it, or reacts after it is in his main. I have went through every replay I have played against him and there is no sign off hacking. We play often on the NA server. #freePL
ya except for him and his friends still terrorize 2v2 to this day.
they've come into my twitch and trolled me (i'm not even an important person). it was like 4-5 of them at once, very annoying.
he's basicly one of those people you never want to encounter, just has a negative vibe, thinks it's funny to ruin peoples day... just a terrible person, he should not be given any second chances.. he's just a stain on the community.
and i didn't watch the video but he cries at the end?? WHAT A BABY, he got what he deserved...... maybe should've just played legit the whole time instead of being a selfish pompous douche? GOOD RIDDANCE.
On June 12 2019 01:09 ScrubbleS wrote: I agree that he should be unbanned, yes he ruined games for top team game players and 1v1ers in the past, but that is the past... It has been a long time since he was hacking, I know personally he has never hacked against me, countless times I have done 3:40 3base nydus against him and he has lost to it, or reacts after it is in his main. I have went through every replay I have played against him and there is no sign off hacking. We play often on the NA server. #freePL
Based on this logic, we should un-ban all the match fixing players. Since they never ruined the experience for any players.
On June 12 2019 01:09 ScrubbleS wrote: I agree that he should be unbanned, yes he ruined games for top team game players and 1v1ers in the past, but that is the past... It has been a long time since he was hacking, I know personally he has never hacked against me, countless times I have done 3:40 3base nydus against him and he has lost to it, or reacts after it is in his main. I have went through every replay I have played against him and there is no sign off hacking. We play often on the NA server. #freePL
ya except for him and his friends still terrorize 2v2 to this day.
they've come into my twitch and trolled me (i'm not even an important person). it was like 4-5 of them at once, very annoying.
he's basicly one of those people you never want to encounter, just has a negative vibe, thinks it's funny to ruin peoples day... just a terrible person, he should not be given any second chances.. he's just a stain on the community.
and i didn't watch the video but he cries at the end?? WHAT A BABY, he got what he deserved...... maybe should've just played legit the whole time instead of being a selfish pompous douche? GOOD RIDDANCE.
Yeah, people act like he's a changed man or something. Dude was still a dick recently and is only apologetic because he got caught. He claims that people people bait him in chat, but in reality he's the one calling them "fucking retarded" and other obscene things. I appreciate Rotti for this interview, but PureLegacy is totally playing the victim card. I am glad he's gone. Maybe now that he has nothing to play for he'll go annoy people in other games.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
Even in normal sports, people are allowed back in after a year or two. One of the most popular examples is Maria Sharapova after she got caught doping was allowed to play WTA again. And don't get me started on cyclists... Sad but true
Yea it's pretty funny that the SC2 video game community is way harsher on cheaters than the huge worldwide popular leagues that are much more serious and have a lot more at stake. UFC is another example where cheaters get caught taking steroids/PEDs and are allowed back in just a couple years. And there people can get seriously hurt because their opponent is using illegal substances to get an advantage unlike SC2. If the SC2 community ran the UFC those guys would never be able to fight again in their life lol.
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
Even in normal sports, people are allowed back in after a year or two. One of the most popular examples is Maria Sharapova after she got caught doping was allowed to play WTA again. And don't get me started on cyclists... Sad but true
Yea it's pretty funny that the SC2 video game community is way harsher on cheaters than the huge worldwide popular leagues that are much more serious and have a lot more at stake. UFC is another example where cheaters get caught taking steroids/PEDs and are allowed back in just a couple years. And there people can get seriously hurt because their opponent is using illegal substances to get an advantage unlike SC2. If the SC2 community ran the UFC those guys would never be able to fight again in their life lol.
Also the dude literally got caught hacking a second time anyway, so it’s not even that we don’t give a second chance and just lifetime ban folks for first offences (outside of matchfixing)
On June 09 2019 05:15 TaKeTV wrote: My only issue with the ban is that he was allowed to participate. If the rule is that you have to be in good standing by WCS standards and a flagged account for hacking - no matter how long it has been - is ruled out, that is harsh but fine by me. Giving him the chance to play and ban him after seems unreasonable.
Personally I feel the 'flagged once - banned forever' is fine but I don't want people to have 2nd chances in a competetive world where they cheated.
Even in normal sports, people are allowed back in after a year or two. One of the most popular examples is Maria Sharapova after she got caught doping was allowed to play WTA again. And don't get me started on cyclists... Sad but true
Yea it's pretty funny that the SC2 video game community is way harsher on cheaters than the huge worldwide popular leagues that are much more serious and have a lot more at stake. UFC is another example where cheaters get caught taking steroids/PEDs and are allowed back in just a couple years. And there people can get seriously hurt because their opponent is using illegal substances to get an advantage unlike SC2. If the SC2 community ran the UFC those guys would never be able to fight again in their life lol.
Also the dude literally got caught hacking a second time anyway, so it’s not even that we don’t give a second chance and just lifetime ban folks for first offences (outside of matchfixing)
When his account got permabanned he started using his alt to ladder with. Took about 30 games to get top 16 gm mmr. I was looking through his 2v2 match history and discovered that he was using both that alt, and his main to win trade during 2v2 matches.
He probably does the same thing in 1v1 which is why he spams so many games and leaves league as often as he does.
Its hard to take him seriously when his cheating days are clearly not behind him. I've just found one player he boosted to GM 3 days ago: battlenet:://starcraft/profile/1/12788380186013859840
I know the person of this account and she is only diamond/low masters. She has a grand total of 3 1v1 games as zerg, all 3 is vs Purelegacy, all of them lasted 7 seconds, all of them she won which got her into GM again.
When someone has been hacking in the past and is doing other illegal things such as boosting accounts to GM in the present. How can you take it serious when they claim to have been reformed?
I don't understand why this community defends hackers so much. There is a thread for high profile hackers and PureLegacy is a frequent feature there. Hacking pretty much killed Apex Legends, the game that was poised to fight Fortnite for #1 spot, it can cause crazy damages, don't support it guys, please.
If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
if ur not gonna read the thread, or even the OP, don't post.
On June 14 2019 21:35 MrFreeman wrote: I don't understand why this community defends hackers so much. There is a thread for high profile hackers and PureLegacy is a frequent feature there. Hacking pretty much killed Apex Legends, the game that was poised to fight Fortnite for #1 spot, it can cause crazy damages, don't support it guys, please.
Nobody's defending cheating per se, what were you reading?
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
I was thinking the same. I feel bad when I get angry and leave a game without GGing.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
Technically speaking he qualified without cheating so he is a legit 1v1 player... because he was banned based on his ladder, not his qualifier matches. You just want to be careful what you write (in the end some pro players in the past defended cheating that it would be nice to be able to have some of the cheats from Blizzard as mods in the custom games because, surprise surprise, they are good for learning the game)
And I don't think that angry players are dragging the scene down. (not that this is a place to discuss this)
I rarely post on TL, mainly just lurk, but when I saw that Purelegacy was banned from WCS I had to chime in and say WOOOOHOOOOOO.
I know that a lot of you guys have a bias against Protech, but let me tell you that in this case, he is 100% right about Purelegacy. The guy is a cheater, plain and simple.
Does he deserve a second chance? Maybe, I don't know. First thing he is going to have to do is deliver a real mea culpa to the community. His posts here and interview with Rotti are that of a psychopath who is still in denial.
Purelegacy, I know that you are going to read this. Dude, we're all human, and we all make mistakes. Winning is addicting, and so is using hacks. Stop lying and saying stuff like "I cheated in a 2v2 game 4 years ago." It pisses people off and doesn't help your standing. Admit to what you did. Admit to the constant stream sniping, the map hacks that you have used recently that everyone who plays 2v2 knows about. Just admit it, lay it on the table, and people will maybe start to respect you.
Blizzard is extremely careful when it comes to Disqualifying people from WCS. If they DQ'ed him they probably have extremely good reasons for it and a boatload of evidence.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
Technically speaking he qualified without cheating so he is a legit 1v1 player... because he was banned based on his ladder, not his qualifier matches. You just want to be careful what you write (in the end some pro players in the past defended cheating that it would be nice to be able to have some of the cheats from Blizzard as mods in the custom games because, surprise surprise, they are good for learning the game)
And I don't think that angry players are dragging the scene down. (not that this is a place to discuss this)
That we know of.
If Blizzard could reliably detect hacks and quickly ban people from using them, we wouldn’t have people hacking to begin with, or at least for very long.
Best case scenario for the guy is he’s hacked for two separate short periods and got caught each time.
Given the 2v2 guys have said it very much was not isolated to small periods, that seems already unlikely.
Then for him to improve a lot (not to an unheard of) level in the prestige 1v1 mode, where the money in the game is; where there’s way more incentive to hack, and for him not to go to LANs while he’s striving to become a legit player.
Added to that his reputation with toxicity which he even lied about when Rotterdam gave him the chance to tell his side of things.
Doesn’t really point to on the balance of probability a guy who’s only hacked a few times, or a guy who is represent and wants to show he’s a legit player.
Angry players absolutely do damage scenes, they don’t kill them but they do limit them. More to do with hacking but the 2v2 guys in this thread said Purelegacy and his boys ruined the small competitive 2v2 scene that there was on NA.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
Technically speaking he qualified without cheating so he is a legit 1v1 player... because he was banned based on his ladder, not his qualifier matches. You just want to be careful what you write (in the end some pro players in the past defended cheating that it would be nice to be able to have some of the cheats from Blizzard as mods in the custom games because, surprise surprise, they are good for learning the game)
And I don't think that angry players are dragging the scene down. (not that this is a place to discuss this)
That we know of.
If Blizzard could reliably detect hacks and quickly ban people from using them, we wouldn’t have people hacking to begin with, or at least for very long.
Best case scenario for the guy is he’s hacked for two separate short periods and got caught each time.
Given the 2v2 guys have said it very much was not isolated to small periods, that seems already unlikely.
Then for him to improve a lot (not to an unheard of) level in the prestige 1v1 mode, where the money in the game is; where there’s way more incentive to hack, and for him not to go to LANs while he’s striving to become a legit player.
Added to that his reputation with toxicity which he even lied about when Rotterdam gave him the chance to tell his side of things.
Doesn’t really point to on the balance of probability a guy who’s only hacked a few times, or a guy who is represent and wants to show he’s a legit player.
Angry players absolutely do damage scenes, they don’t kill them but they do limit them. More to do with hacking but the 2v2 guys in this thread said Purelegacy and his boys ruined the small competitive 2v2 scene that there was on NA.
The issue is we can't believe the 2v2 guys the same way you don't want to believe Purelegacy. They may be another Avilo - everyone is cheater and if somebody cheated before(which is a dick move) they may see hints here and there just because of their bias(losing doesn't help either).
The only person we can rely upon is Blizzard but the issue is - "recent". All they had to do was to release the replay of the said game or, at least, release the cheating date. Many of the discussion would be over as the "Recent" keyword would be replaced with the exact date.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
Technically speaking he qualified without cheating so he is a legit 1v1 player... because he was banned based on his ladder, not his qualifier matches. You just want to be careful what you write (in the end some pro players in the past defended cheating that it would be nice to be able to have some of the cheats from Blizzard as mods in the custom games because, surprise surprise, they are good for learning the game)
And I don't think that angry players are dragging the scene down. (not that this is a place to discuss this)
That we know of.
If Blizzard could reliably detect hacks and quickly ban people from using them, we wouldn’t have people hacking to begin with, or at least for very long.
Best case scenario for the guy is he’s hacked for two separate short periods and got caught each time.
Given the 2v2 guys have said it very much was not isolated to small periods, that seems already unlikely.
Then for him to improve a lot (not to an unheard of) level in the prestige 1v1 mode, where the money in the game is; where there’s way more incentive to hack, and for him not to go to LANs while he’s striving to become a legit player.
Added to that his reputation with toxicity which he even lied about when Rotterdam gave him the chance to tell his side of things.
Doesn’t really point to on the balance of probability a guy who’s only hacked a few times, or a guy who is represent and wants to show he’s a legit player.
Angry players absolutely do damage scenes, they don’t kill them but they do limit them. More to do with hacking but the 2v2 guys in this thread said Purelegacy and his boys ruined the small competitive 2v2 scene that there was on NA.
The issue is we can't believe the 2v2 guys the same way you don't want to believe Purelegacy. They may be another Avilo - everyone is cheater and if somebody cheated before(which is a dick move) they may see hints here and there just because of their bias(losing doesn't help either).
The only person we can rely upon is Blizzard but the issue is - "recent". All they had to do was to release the replay of the said game or, at least, release the cheating date. Many of the discussion would be over as the "Recent" keyword would be replaced with the exact date.
We don't agree on angry players then.
I wonder then, based on your opinion, how long recent does the cheating incident has to be in order to warrant an in-game ban, and would you say that this period should be shorter for a player who qualified for WCS, if so, by how much?
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
Yeah a lot of those sound nuts. The worst I have done is float my CC into a corner or run drones around the map to build / cancel extractor and make opponent waste their time if I thought their build was particularly cheesy BS.
The issue is we can't believe the 2v2 guys the same way you don't want to believe Purelegacy. They may be
False equivalence, an absolute nobody has more credibility than a proven liar so it's not logical to treat them with an equal amount of doubt; that would be a pretty big bias. Two or three nobodies have far more credibility still.
Yeah a lot of those sound nuts. The worst I have done is float my CC into a corner or run drones around the map to build / cancel extractor and make opponent waste their time if I thought their build was particularly cheesy BS.
I've been known to alt tab and watch a movie without leaving a game if somebody is an asshole completely unprovoked when they're already winning. It's very odd IMO but it does happen quite a bit in sc2, especially in PvZ and PvT. Some people take extreme personal offense to you building certain units even if they're objectively bad like carriers on the current patch.
That's not really as much an angry emotional reaction as it is an attempt to train toxic people like dogs; if everyone were to do that, perhaps they would think for a second longer before threatening to rape your mother.
On June 17 2019 12:21 Gen.Rolly wrote: If we're honest with ourselves, we've all probably done or said some messed up stuff on Bnet. Competitive games like StarCraft bring out both the best and worst. Regrettably, I've cursed people out, used every kind of derogatory slur, spammed personal chats, made veiled (empty) threats on players that angered me, and even unfriended a brother.
I think the punishment should fit the crime. PureLegacy's prior actions have no doubt hurt the community, but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player, removing him from the competitive community actually hurts the scene. I think a more reasonable action on Blizzard's behalf would be to place a monetary fine on players that have behaved badly but are otherwise legit players (not saying PureLegacy is), who have truly repented and want to do right by the community and remain part of it.
I have done none of these things, what the hell?!
That is absolutely not normal and it disturbs me that you think that it is. Those kinds of behaviors (by a minority of people) are dragging SC2 and society as a whole down.
but if in fact he is a legit 1v1 player
If he were a legitimate player he almost certainly (definitely beyond reasonable doubt) wouldn't have had his WCS-qualified account banned for hacking on the ladder.
Looking ONLY at hacking, all other behaviors aside; I can't recall a single incident in SC2 - ever - where Blizzard claimed that a player hacked but they were later proven innocent. It actually strongly tends to be the opposite with well known hackers terrorizing the game for years at a time without bans, even in the top fraction of a percent of the ladder.
A shred of doubt is healthy but the widespread front-page-news community perception of more than that is downright illogical at the moment.
Technically speaking he qualified without cheating so he is a legit 1v1 player... because he was banned based on his ladder, not his qualifier matches. You just want to be careful what you write (in the end some pro players in the past defended cheating that it would be nice to be able to have some of the cheats from Blizzard as mods in the custom games because, surprise surprise, they are good for learning the game)
And I don't think that angry players are dragging the scene down. (not that this is a place to discuss this)
That we know of.
If Blizzard could reliably detect hacks and quickly ban people from using them, we wouldn’t have people hacking to begin with, or at least for very long.
Best case scenario for the guy is he’s hacked for two separate short periods and got caught each time.
Given the 2v2 guys have said it very much was not isolated to small periods, that seems already unlikely.
Then for him to improve a lot (not to an unheard of) level in the prestige 1v1 mode, where the money in the game is; where there’s way more incentive to hack, and for him not to go to LANs while he’s striving to become a legit player.
Added to that his reputation with toxicity which he even lied about when Rotterdam gave him the chance to tell his side of things.
Doesn’t really point to on the balance of probability a guy who’s only hacked a few times, or a guy who is represent and wants to show he’s a legit player.
Angry players absolutely do damage scenes, they don’t kill them but they do limit them. More to do with hacking but the 2v2 guys in this thread said Purelegacy and his boys ruined the small competitive 2v2 scene that there was on NA.
The issue is we can't believe the 2v2 guys the same way you don't want to believe Purelegacy. They may be another Avilo - everyone is cheater and if somebody cheated before(which is a dick move) they may see hints here and there just because of their bias(losing doesn't help either).
The only person we can rely upon is Blizzard but the issue is - "recent". All they had to do was to release the replay of the said game or, at least, release the cheating date. Many of the discussion would be over as the "Recent" keyword would be replaced with the exact date.
We don't agree on angry players then.
They could do that sure, and probably should because a section of the community can’t read and think he’s banned for being BM, and another part think ‘recent’ refers to 2015 so maybe that needs clarified. I don’t personally think it does, seems pretty obvious getting banned right around a recent ban wave is linked.
I’m rather unsure what recourse a player has in appealing either, I’d hazard a guess that he cheated and he knows that going that route will cut off the option for him playing the victim and bring it out in the open.
I think it’s admirable to not jump to conclusions but with this case it seems people are pushing way past giving someone the benefit of the doubt territory
I don’t know, maybe players being angry and toxic is good for communities, I personally highly doubt it but I don’t really have any data to back it up whatsoever. I don’t play DoTA or CS for those reasons, night shifts throw my gaming time (which is already limited vs me as a teen) out of sync with my friends who play, and I just find solo queuing a terrible use of my time when I’m trying to relax.
It's kind of sad that his account wasn't banned long before. If he didn't hack again he could still be competing on the newest account. They said he just couldn't compete on this said account that they took forever to take actions about.
On June 19 2019 02:26 Devin1337 wrote: It's kind of sad that his account wasn't banned long before. If he didn't hack again he could still be competing on the newest account.
IDD. There shouldn't really have been an instant second chance just because of paying a bit of money or abusing free to play. Ban evasion is a serious offense by itself.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Z2iMktQ.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IzJGxDZ.png)
