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On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote: Macsed's response: "说下当时情况吧，第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜，当然所有人都和我这么说，我也觉得他很菜，然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢，但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿，我就封了他得气，一旦封了他拿什么打我低保？可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的，因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的，所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的，因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束，然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了，当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误，但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了，因为我家里已经挡不住了，他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我，太丢人了" My translation: "The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game." | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
On March 13 2019 11:39 digmouse wrote: He is semi retired now. EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious. Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum. | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
On March 13 2019 11:52 Dave4 wrote: Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum. I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers. | ||
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sunnyshine
Australia63 Posts
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IArako
Germany195 Posts
On March 13 2019 11:43 BretZ wrote: From reddit user pwnful: Can't believe how many are just writing this off as a "messy game." It's pretty silly that a guy who barely can break masters is taking a game of a "semi-retired" (?) professional player. On top of that, MacSed sees his build coming almost immediately and doesn't respond. at all. this. Overall this looks very suspicious to me, just the coincidence of the hard swing of odds, the unnecessary cannonrush against a weaker player and incredible mistakes in gameplay are hard to write off. I think the most important thing would be checking if the redditpost belongs to the real seventy91 and if he actually is a 4k mmr player or not. If hes actually a 6k player theres a good chance someone knew about it and bet on him, maybe even himself. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On March 13 2019 10:37 tcb wrote: sorry…I don't have a experence use OBS or youtube so the video quanlity is very low This game is very suspicious. He went to cannon rush and got his probe IN. Confirmed that there was only 1 pylon, gateway incomplete, no gas, and NO CYBER. That should tell you that it's a proxy gate of some sort. What was Macsed reaction? Let's cannon rush the guy that obviously proxying me! Are you going to tell me that Macsed, a 6k+ player who got his probe in and saw a gateway that was incomplete with no gas didnt realize that it was proxy gate? Also, after scouting and seeing no gas/cyber, Macsed floated 300+ mins from 1:40 onwards. No reaction to a possible cheese at all. At one point, Macsed got up to 500 minerals, what was he saving up for, game 3? | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
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MarathonMan
5 Posts
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MarathonMan
5 Posts
On March 13 2019 11:54 digmouse wrote: I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers. As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do. | ||
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YeahJack
China2 Posts
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rainbw
United States3 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 13 2019 12:34 MarathonMan wrote: As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do. The sole fact that someone went ahead and bet a large amount of money on a 4k taking a game off of 6k makes this game suspect one way or another. In best case it means that someone on-site who saw the game happen live placed the bet before betting was closed. Which is, arguably, not a good thing either. | ||
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ordeal11
Czech Republic52 Posts
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
On March 13 2019 12:31 MarathonMan wrote: Not only is this game not suspicious, this is not match fixing. We dont have the replay and therefore have zero confirmation as to who saw what. Not to mention, most of these responses were normal. On top of that macsed has been out of play for a good while, is playing someone way worse than him, and likely just wanted to get to the next game. If this game is suspicious, MarineKing match fixed in proleague all those years ago. The betting line is weird. Its not suspicious. Just a little weird. But weirder things have happened. I HIGHLY SUGGEST PEOPLE STOP PITCHFORKING UNTIL WE SEE THE REPLAY, NOT JUST A REALLY BAD VOD. There's multiple places to find the VODS. Better quality. Why is every single poster that denies the evidence from brand new accounts? Why are all of you pulling what about isms? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
What is a crime and what should be investigated is whether or not Macsed was paid. Any investigation will follow the money. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
On March 13 2019 12:59 yht9657 wrote: Mad gambler accusing progamer of matchfixing based on zero credible evidence, I guess that's just how esports work these days. Mad gamblers already caught two of the biggest Starcraft pros red-handed. Guess that's how esports works. | ||
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
On March 13 2019 12:34 MarathonMan wrote: As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do. A cannon rush isn't some brilliant strategy. It's been around since the 90s. And a 6k player, who had the intel advantage, throws it away and loses to a Diamond. So is MacSed just insanely terrible? Because his first match against Seventy was so one sided that Seventy just gave up and a moved before they even got to three bases. | ||
VanCaspel
Netherlands250 Posts
- The second game in the series was won by Seventy91. I alternated looking at both players' screens during that game, and did not notice them making any errors on purpose. Seventy91 was certainly trying very hard and got frustrated if he made a misclick. MacSed looked like he did in his previous games (I'd been a ref for another of his matches before this one): focused, looking at the screen and with pro-level APM. Again: this does not prove or disprove anything, but it's not like MacSed was afk or something, or explicitly trolling. He looked serious. - The game was very scrappy and unusual. I haven't looked at the replay, so this is from memory from what I saw yesterday. Seventy91 went for a Zealot rush with 4 (I think?) gateways, one of which was in his main (something he later told me he did by accident, and which he said helped him win the game) and three were proxied near MacSed's base. MacSed, on the other hand, went for a cannon rush. He was unable to keep Seventy91's Zealots out of his base, and his cannon rush did not progress fast enough so he ran out of money to continue and lost the game. - I remember a moment where MacSed lost two of his probes doing the cannon rush in Seventy91's base to a Zealot. I don't know if those were all of his probes. I was looking at Seventy91's screen at that moment and remember thinking at that time that that was a blunder by MacSed. I do not know where MacSed was looking at that moment, I didn't see his screen then. The replay will probably help with this. I don't remember having any other thoughts regarding blunders or mistakes on MacSed's end during the game. - After game two, and as we quickly went into the third game, I remember seeing that MacSed chatted briefly with someone in the StarCraft client. They were two or three brief lines, and the other person responded quickly. I don't read Chinese so I can't say what was said, but I do know that there were at least one (but possibly two) instances of censorship in his already short messages (where the client shows !@% rather than the word you typed). My interpretation of that was that MacSed was frustrated / surprised and said something that included curse words, along the lines of 'what is this shit'. - I have collected the replays for this match, they are looked at by people from StarLadder. I also heard (but cannot yet confirm) that the Chinese are also looking into it. Once I get to the venue today I will ask around to see who is working on this, and whether MacSed is being approached or not. I do know that one of the main event organisers (great guy, fan of StarCraft), is concerned about the issue and he was one of the people to ask me to look at this topic. This is all the relevant info I can think of right now. If anyone has any specific questions let me know. I have to say though that I'm having a hard time reaching TeamLiquid.net and this topic in particular through the Great Firewall without VPN (which I can't get working on my laptop), so I don't think I'll be able to closely follow this topic. I'll try to look here on my phone throughout the day, but I may not be responding for a while. | ||
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