The prevailing storylines in WCS and GSL were similar in 2018. Maru and Serral dominated their respective leagues in absolute, undeniable, and unprecedented fashion. However, while historic dominance is something well worth tuning in for, it's not the only thing that that keeps us at the edge of our seats.
Serral's sweep was the story of the WCS Circuit on the outside, but the beating heart beneath it all was the belief that anything was possible. MaNa’s last stand, Has’ remarkable face-turn, and Reynor's almost-miracle run to usurp Serral's reign—these were the kind of moments that gave the WCS Circuit a vibrant soul that the GSL sorely lacked. It was this identity that made the WCS Circuit the better league to watch.
Photo: Carlton Beener (via Blizzard)
The first WCS Circuit event I watched was WCS Austin 2017. I wasn’t enthused at the prospect of wasting my weekend logging the all-foreigner affair in excruciating detail, but TL.net needed recaps and I was the man for the job. I was sure going in that I was going to hate it, but the tournament wound up being worse than even my darkest fears. The match between Nerchio and TRUE, in particular, was an unimaginable abomination. It got off to a rocky start when TRUE nearly threw away a massive lead by refusing to make anything but roaches in game one. From there it got even worse. TRUE's decision making in their base-trade on Bel’Shir Vestige was demoralizing, to put it lightly. I couldn’t believe it when he plowed his weird roach/infestor army into a concave of lurkers. The fourth game was rather tame, but by that point I’d already learned what it meant when people said someone was going full foreigner.
How was I supposed to enjoy this farce when the players were so bad?
In those days I was your typical Korean elitist. I’d been watching StarCraft for seven years but I’d never punished myself by intentionally watching a match between foreigners. Watching players like MarineKing, Leenock, or TaeJa slaughter helpless foreigners at international events made it obvious that the Korean leagues featured a far superior level of StarCraft II. I cheered for Life—a player I had never supported or cared for—when he thrashed Lilbow at BlizzCon. I wrote off Neeb’s KeSPA Cup win as a complete fluke. I relished in Serral and Elazer's humiliating defeats at the hands of Dark in 2017. By the time I signed up to write for TL in November 2016, there was no doubt in my mind: Koreans were a cut above. Foreigners weren’t even worth watching.
Is this it? The essence of full foreigner?
I entered 2018 excited for another year of spectacular Korean StarCraft in the GSL. But as I told the stories from StarCraft II's most prestigious league, I started to realize those stories had barely changed over the last few years. The more GSL I watched in 2018, the more those once enthralling storylines started to feel repetitive and contrived.
The round of 32 featured a regular cast of cannon-fodder who were dismissed after some insincere lip-service. Dark continued to be a paradox of supreme talent disappointing results. Every sOs appearance was about winning that final trophy which would complete a legendary career. For the sixth time in his career, Trap lost in the final match of his RO16 group. I lost track of how many times we asked of Classic, Dear, INnoVation, and numerous others: "Can he rediscover his championship form?"
The worst possible thing had happened to Korean StarCraft. It had become stagnant.
Maru's back-to-back GSL wins were the last straw. A few years ago, I would have thought it was the most exciting thing happening in StarCraft II. In 2018, it signaled that the disease of inevitability had infected the entirety of the GSL, all the way up to the championship. I acknowledged that Maru was amazing and I was still happy for him as a long-time fan. Yet, because of him, not only had the GSL journey become the same, but so had the destination.
I tuned into WCS Austin 2018 on a whim. Somehow, the tournament I had deemed to be the nadir of StarCraft a year ago didn't seem so awful anymore. Players began to distinguish themselves amid a previously anonymous morass. I liked European Zergs like Zanster, Lambo and Namshar because I couldn't figure out how good they were from game to game. I was intrigued by Korean champions Neeb and Scarlett because their Korean titles didn't seem to guarantee them any Circuit success. I wasn’t so interested in the youngsters Reynor and Clem, but they seemed to be faring better than DRGLing and NightMare.
Ultimately, it was MaNa's run that made the difference. I never imagined that someone who’d been mediocre for so long could shine so brightly. Leenock never did this—Leenock's destiny was to die in the RO16. When was the last time the GSL saw someone unexpected cut a swathe through its titans, like MaNa was doing to Neeb, Snute and SpeCial? The 3-0, 3-0, 3-1 scores might have seemed lopsided, but the margin of victory was razor thin. By the time MaNa reached the finals, I was transfixed. The last time Korean StarCraft made me feel that way was when Maru soared back to win 2015's SSL Season 1. And, while Serral was the one uncorking the champagne at the end of the day, MaNa’s run was what left a lasting impression. Even in defeat, MaNa made it seem like anything was possible on the WCS Circuit.
That feeling continued at WCS Valencia when Has—a player who seemed firmly locked into the cheesy, mid-tier caste—engineered a masterful, inexplicable run that took him all the way to the finals. Something like that could never happen in Korea, where players are militantly kept in rank by those higher up in the pecking order (and players like MyuNgSiK are publicly flogged for their impudence). Has managed the impossible, beating one supposedly superior player after another with a befuddling playstyle his opponents should have seen coming.
Maybe I should have been paying more attention to that Reynor kid because he put together another one of these magical WCS runs at WCS Montreal (ironically, he had first announced himself to the StarCraft community by spicing up my beloved GSL with an unexpectedly strong showing). He stormed his way to the finals and, despite throwing away the upset of the year on Cerulean Fall—he tested Serral in a way no foreigner had all year.
Photo: Carlton Beener (via Blizzard)
Serral may have ended up with the trophy on all the 2018 Circuit stops, but each time there was no telling how we'd arrive at that outcome. The group stages were a regular bloodbath. The elimination rounds always produced a stand-out match, often between the most unexpected players. A miracle run like MaNa’s or Has’ seemed but a few games away. There were young competitors who had the potential to become breakout star. Oh boy, was it fun.
The last GSL Code S finals between Maru and TY was a redeeming moment for a lackluster year in Korean StarCraft II. I’d argue that the games on their own weren’t that spectacular, but the sheer tension had me captivated for the entire series. Maru had finally found an equal in TY—a player who could change his entire legacy and break a year's worth of storylines with a single victory. Those are the kind of matches that make competitive StarCraft great. When the narratives become too familiar and the results too predictable, the competition loses its spark. The 2018 WCS Circuit, meanwhile, kept me in suspense every step of the way. The history and prestige of the GSL may never be challenged in StarCraft II, but 2018 showed us that the WCS Circuit has the potential to remain the most exciting league going forward.
I'm glad Mizenhauer realized that watching Dark totally destroy [Player] in the RO32 and saying to yourself 'this is peak StarCraft II' isn't the only way to enjoy the game.
I'm not sure if/to what extent I agree with this, but this article definitely provides food for thought. I wonder to what extent the format influences things. The GSL Super Tournaments was relatively similar in format to WCS, and at the time they were pretty interesting, but in hindsight it didn't leave too much of an impression.
On February 06 2019 10:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm not sure if/to what extent I agree with this, but this article definitely provides food for thought. I wonder to what extent the format influences things. The GSL Super Tournaments was relatively similar in format to WCS, and at the time they were pretty interesting, but in hindsight it didn't leave too much of an impression.
I think the human brain is just fickle, and even if it should know something rationally (Koreans are generally better than foreigners at StarCraft), you find a way to dismiss it emotionally after you don't see it happen for a while.
Someone find me a cognitive science paper that confirms this theory I pulled out of my ass.
So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
I don't know, I like to watch high quality games, and the storylines are the facts. I don't need you or anyone else to tell some fictional story and relate it to Oedipus Rex or Othello. Besides, I don't think it's exciting that a low quality player can make a run in an event that has only one of the best players in the world attending (unless they beat that player), but that isn't exciting really, it's just one match of interest.
Tell me which round of 8 onwards match wasn't hype? 2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S In fact, tell me which round of 16 group wasn't hype. For overall storylines, Maru's run was exciting to watch the whole way through. Maru's thrashing of Zest was one of the most thrilling moments of the year for me, and I'm a big fan of Zest. It was just that epic.
GSL was action packed last year and plenty of exciting games every week. I am not a korean elitist for thinking this, nor am I a korean elitist for not wanting to watch low quality games.
The "tension" in WCS is due to the inconsistency of gameplay among WCS pros (Serral being the exception). It is frustrating to watch them throw away games due to unforced errors or taking forever to close out won games.
On February 06 2019 10:45 Rodya wrote: So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
I don't know, I like to watch high quality games, and the storylines are the facts. I don't need you or anyone else to tell some fictional story and relate it to Oedipus Rex or Othello. Besides, I don't think it's exciting that a low quality player can make a run in an event that has only one of the best players in the world attending (unless they beat that player), but that isn't exciting really, it's just one match of interest.
Tell me which round of 8 onwards match wasn't hype? 2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S In fact, tell me which round of 16 group wasn't hype. For overall storylines, Maru's run was exciting to watch the whole way through. Maru's thrashing of Zest was one of the most thrilling moments of the year for me, and I'm a big fan of Zest. It was just that epic.
GSL was action packed last year and plenty of exciting games every week. I am not a korean elitist for thinking this, nor am I a korean elitist for not wanting to watch low quality games.
Agree with this but the article has a point that the korean scene became stagnant. how many high stake encounters have we seen by now between Maru, TY, Dark, Inno, Classic, Stats etc.? there's little room for really exciting new storylines.
On the other hand how many high stake encounters have we seen between Serral, Neeb, Elazer, Showtime, Reynor etc.? Far less so the novelty factor is definitely higher there.
While I agree that GSL really is getting a bit stale, also because it's hard to emphasize the importance of a GSL when almost everyone has major win to there name, in the last GSL ro16 only 6 players (Reynor, Trap, Keen, Impact, Leenock, TY) had never won a premier tournament in Korea (and 3 of those had won premier outside of Korea) and 8 were already multiple time premier champion in Korea. At this point it's hard to put a lot of a lot of emphasis on the championship, I mean what would another GSL really mean to guys like Zest, Maru, INno or Stats? It would be nice for them of course but for most of them it would only be another trophy in their collection.
But on another note, I do have to wonder if the fact that the SC2 viewer base (I assume) getting older is affecting how we view WCS and GSL. Korean Starcraft is on at dismal hours for most people and as more people get full time jobs and kids it become harder to stay invested enough to stay up at midnight or get up at 5 am just to watch a round of 32 GSL group. Even myself as a student who watch way to much Starcraft I don't have the will I had to fuck up my sleep schedule just to watch the GSL. It's way easier to watch some Starcraft on the weekend or in the evening, and stay more invested in the story lines.
Sadly I'd have to agree. It's great that WCS had a spectacular 2018, but it's also indicative of how much the Korean scene has withered. I mean look at code A 2014 vs Code S 2019
of course there's stagnation with the same faces, there isn't much left of the middle-class in Korea (especially among the Zergs). There aren't any promising younger players on the rise either like Reynor in WCS :/
To me, the lone hope of adding some rejuvenation to the scene and the prime story to watch in Korea for 2019 is the performance of the returning military players. MC, Dream, Fantasy, PartinG, DRG, and Taeja especially could make things a little more interesting in a couple months. I believe Curious should be due back soon as well.
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On February 06 2019 10:45 Rodya wrote: So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
I don't know, I like to watch high quality games, and the storylines are the facts. I don't need you or anyone else to tell some fictional story and relate it to Oedipus Rex or Othello. Besides, I don't think it's exciting that a low quality player can make a run in an event that has only one of the best players in the world attending (unless they beat that player), but that isn't exciting really, it's just one match of interest.
GSL is still higher quality, there's still clearly a gap, but not nearly as much as it used to be. I don't know if it's more that Korea has diminished or foreigners have really stepped it up (probably both), but I think there are more players than Serral that are clearly code S level that are playing in WCS.
Scarlett, Neeb, Special, ShowTime, uThermal, and Reynor at a minimum are code S level.
Tell me which round of 8 onwards match wasn't hype? 2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S In fact, tell me which round of 16 group wasn't hype. For overall storylines, Maru's run was exciting to watch the whole way through. Maru's thrashing of Zest was one of the most thrilling moments of the year for me, and I'm a big fan of Zest. It was just that epic.
It's hype but tiring to see the usual suspects all the time. Aside from Maru's domination, I think Neeb and Scarlett drew the most hype with their respective runs. There was no old soldier like ByuN/Gumiho who finally got their day in the sun, nor a new badass on the block like with Zest's 2014 royal road to really juice things up.
Don't know how you found Maru vs Zest "thrilling" though. That will go down as the worst gsl finals we've had to date. Even worse than NesTea vs Inca (at least that was funny and very memorable).
GSL was action packed last year and plenty of exciting games every week. I am not a korean elitist for thinking this, nor am I a korean elitist for not wanting to watch low quality games.
Koreans play plenty of shit games too, see sOs vs HeroMarine at Blizzcon. A higher level on average sure, but not like it used to be.
On February 06 2019 12:12 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Sadly I'd have to agree. It's great that WCS had a spectacular 2018, but it's also indicative of how much the Korean scene has withered. I mean look at code A 2014 vs Code S 2019
of course there's stagnation with the same faces, there isn't much left of the middle-class in Korea (especially among the Zergs). There aren't any promising younger players on the rise either like Reynor in WCS :/
To me, the lone hope of adding some rejuvenation to the scene and the prime story to watch in Korea for 2019 is the performance of the returning military players. MC, Dream, Fantasy, PartinG, DRG, and Taeja especially could make things a little more interesting in a couple months. I believe Curious should be due back soon as well.
On February 06 2019 10:45 Rodya wrote: So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
I don't know, I like to watch high quality games, and the storylines are the facts. I don't need you or anyone else to tell some fictional story and relate it to Oedipus Rex or Othello. Besides, I don't think it's exciting that a low quality player can make a run in an event that has only one of the best players in the world attending (unless they beat that player), but that isn't exciting really, it's just one match of interest.
GSL is still higher quality, there's still clearly a gap, but not nearly as much as it used to be. I don't know if it's more that Korea has diminished or foreigners have really stepped it up (probably both), but I think there are more players than Serral that are clearly code S level that are playing in WCS.
Scarlett, Neeb, Special, ShowTime, uThermal, and Reynor at a minimum are code S level.
Tell me which round of 8 onwards match wasn't hype? 2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S In fact, tell me which round of 16 group wasn't hype. For overall storylines, Maru's run was exciting to watch the whole way through. Maru's thrashing of Zest was one of the most thrilling moments of the year for me, and I'm a big fan of Zest. It was just that epic.
It's hype but tiring to see the usual suspects all the time. Aside from Maru's domination, I think Neeb and Scarlett drew the most hype with their respective runs. There was no old soldier like ByuN/Gumiho who finally got their day in the sun, nor a new badass on the block like with Zest's 2014 royal road to really juice things up.
Don't know how you found Maru vs Zest "thrilling" though. That will go down as the worst gsl finals we've had to date. Even worse than NesTea vs Inca (at least that was funny and very memorable).
GSL was action packed last year and plenty of exciting games every week. I am not a korean elitist for thinking this, nor am I a korean elitist for not wanting to watch low quality games.
Koreans play plenty of shit games too, see sOs vs HeroMarine at Blizzcon. A higher level on average sure, but not like it used to be.
I still remember Maru vs Zest game 4 where I was hoping Zest would some pull off some crazy reverse sweep.
This year? Well so far it looks like WCS is going into the dumpster. If Blizzard can't negotiate the weekend tournaments and WCS gets stuck with this budget WCS Winter stuff, I worry for starcraft.
Update: I do not like the new WCS circuit that much.
On February 06 2019 12:12 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Sadly I'd have to agree. It's great that WCS had a spectacular 2018, but it's also indicative of how much the Korean scene has withered. I mean look at code A 2014 vs Code S 2019
of course there's stagnation with the same faces, there isn't much left of the middle-class in Korea (especially among the Zergs). There aren't any promising younger players on the rise either like Reynor in WCS :/
To me, the lone hope of adding some rejuvenation to the scene and the prime story to watch in Korea for 2019 is the performance of the returning military players. MC, Dream, Fantasy, PartinG, DRG, and Taeja especially could make things a little more interesting in a couple months. I believe Curious should be due back soon as well.
==
On February 06 2019 10:45 Rodya wrote: So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
I don't know, I like to watch high quality games, and the storylines are the facts. I don't need you or anyone else to tell some fictional story and relate it to Oedipus Rex or Othello. Besides, I don't think it's exciting that a low quality player can make a run in an event that has only one of the best players in the world attending (unless they beat that player), but that isn't exciting really, it's just one match of interest.
GSL is still higher quality, there's still clearly a gap, but not nearly as much as it used to be. I don't know if it's more that Korea has diminished or foreigners have really stepped it up (probably both), but I think there are more players than Serral that are clearly code S level that are playing in WCS.
Scarlett, Neeb, Special, ShowTime, uThermal, and Reynor at a minimum are code S level.
Tell me which round of 8 onwards match wasn't hype? 2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S In fact, tell me which round of 16 group wasn't hype. For overall storylines, Maru's run was exciting to watch the whole way through. Maru's thrashing of Zest was one of the most thrilling moments of the year for me, and I'm a big fan of Zest. It was just that epic.
It's hype but tiring to see the usual suspects all the time. Aside from Maru's domination, I think Neeb and Scarlett drew the most hype with their respective runs. There was no old soldier like ByuN/Gumiho who finally got their day in the sun, nor a new badass on the block like with Zest's 2014 royal road to really juice things up.
Don't know how you found Maru vs Zest "thrilling" though. That will go down as the worst gsl finals we've had to date. Even worse than NesTea vs Inca (at least that was funny and very memorable).
GSL was action packed last year and plenty of exciting games every week. I am not a korean elitist for thinking this, nor am I a korean elitist for not wanting to watch low quality games.
Koreans play plenty of shit games too, see sOs vs HeroMarine at Blizzcon. A higher level on average sure, but not like it used to be.
I still remember Maru vs Zest game 4 where I was hoping Zest would some pull off some crazy reverse sweep.
Maybe it's because I'm a long-time Maru fan, but I kind of enjoyed that finals and found it memorable. I remember everyone coming up with a case for why Zest would actually win and finding it really satisfying to see him get so totally crushed. Objectively, it wasn't a finals with a lot of tense exciting games, but it had some exciting moments. IIRC there was at least one game where it felt like Maru lost and he marched across the map with what he had left and took a somewhat surprising win.
On February 06 2019 12:41 youngjiddle wrote: WCS > GSL last year easily. easily!
This year? Well so far it looks like WCS is going into the dumpster. If Blizzard can't negotiate the weekend tournaments and WCS gets stuck with this budget WCS Winter stuff, I worry for starcraft.
I’m not too worried yet. I seriously doubt GSL would get a full year commissioned by Blizzard with WCS KR point breakdowns and them NOT planning the same on the Circuit.
WCS Winter is allowing more players the opportunity to kick off the year without investing a lot of time and money traveling to a predetermined venue where they could be out in 20 minutes. We are getting up close looks at players that have been underneath the radar during this. And I think that’s a good thing.
As far as the big tournaments don’t fret: IEM Katowice is coming, and I imagine we will hear about the three other Circuit stops before very long. My guess just like the GSL it’s just taking longer to get things arranged this year because of all the changes going on at Blizzard.
I honestly can't discern whether he is just trolling for fun, trying to recapture the e-fame he got after he called rogue that word or really succumbed to his own obsession with "narratives" over actual game quality.
For me WCS was really disappointing because of the lack of terrans in the upper rounds, and the lack of high level players besides 3 or 4 top europeans and Juanito (Scarlett was only hot in another tournament than WCS, Pyongchang IEM I guess) GSL was way more enjoyable.
I didn't like the article. The tone is very arrogant. Who are you? But I liked this comment:
On February 06 2019 11:54 Nakajin wrote: At this point it's hard to put a lot of a lot of emphasis on the championship, I mean what would another GSL really mean to guys like Zest, Maru, INno or Stats?
I do not care one bit about the author's personal opinion on the GSL, and the WCS circuit. He should've stopped being a SC2 writer the moment he called Rogue a patch zerg when rogue's skill was obvious to anyone that took the time to watch his games and pay attention to detail. The fact he admits to never watching any foreign tournaments prior to WCS austin, automatically disqualifies him from having a real opinion that should be taken serious.
The fact of the matter is, that WCS Circuit has produced plenty of epic moments since it's started as a circuit. It is simply a matter of perception. One could very easily find a ton of really poor games from GSL, as well as WCS Circuit, it's just a matter of how you want to see things.
WCS Circuit was quite possibly the most hype tournament series SC2 has ever seen thanks to serral's incredible journey. There is no need to make past WCS Circuit players look bad by going into a 'full foreigner' effect. The guys who were doing well before Serral, do not need your judgement nor did they do anything to deserve being looked down upon. WCS Circuit has had great players and great games for years.
I think the excitement for WCS is a real thing and also that GSL kind of seems like a competition for just another championship on the belt for an elite group of veteran players. I still highly enjoy watching GSL and WCS only really is interesting in the playoffs and often lacks in quality of play. But the lack of dynamic in the korean SC2 scene is a serious problem. No newcomers to cheer for. No accomplished champion who faces new challenges. Storylines that are defined by events years ago and not just unfolding for the first time.
This is why I still think that we need some kind of Code A in Korea. To have such a thing we probably have to sacrifice something we have now. I think this only could be GSL vs the World. This event is probably really costly and those expenses could be used for a well financed code A.
I read it and it's even worse than the patch zerg thing. Sadly it's a TL official article.
Yeah, the GSL is so stale Innovation managed to get out of the easiest RO16 group in S1 and lose the form for the whole year. (Scarlett, you monster! ) Neeb managed to get into RO4. Zest managed to get into the finals, was hyped so much and then the shortest final series happened. TY lost to his own build the Code S title. soO made RO4 in the first season and then what? Such a stale Code S that Classic didn't make it into RO16 Season 3. Stats, one of the best Protosses out there, the Season 1 finalist, such a stale hero. Couldn't make it out of RO16 and finished the last in his group in the 2nd season. Such a stalemate. Wow.
I mean, c'mon, I am no TL writer but obviously I manage to see some things are different. The only stale thing we have and can bet upon is RO8 Rogue form changing from the future champion into a foreigner(unless he plays Maru ).
The code S of 2018 was so stale that out of possible 24 different RO8 players we had 16!!! SIXTEEN different RO8 players in the whole year. And only Maru repeated more than once(Repeated contestants: Maru, Gumi, TY, Zest, Rogue, Classic and Stats)
Edit> At the same time out of the 4 WCS circuits we could have 32 different players and we had, prepare the drums, epic diversity of 16 different players. AW YEAH.
Not a stale tournament. Nope. No sir.
Edit2> Also 4 players repeated more than once. Players who repeated 3 times - Serral(duh), 2 times - Nerchio, Heromarine and Showtime. (this means 4 RO8 and 3 RO8 appearances). While I believe the only player who repeated RO8 more than once in the GSL is Maru(duh)).
On February 06 2019 18:32 deacon.frost wrote: I read it and it's even worse than the patch zerg thing. Sadly it's a TL official article.
Yeah, the GSL is so stale Innovation managed to get out of the easiest RO16 group in S1 and lose the form for the whole year. (Scarlett, you monster! ) Neeb managed to get into RO4. Zest managed to get into the finals, was hyped so much and then the shortest final series happened. TY lost to his own build the Code S title. soO made RO4 in the first season and then what? Such a stale Code S that Classic didn't make it into RO16 Season 3. Stats, one of the best Protosses out there, the Season 1 finalist, such a stale hero. Couldn't make it out of RO16 and finished the last in his group in the 2nd season. Such a stalemate. Wow.
I mean, c'mon, I am no TL writer but obviously I manage to see some things are different. The only stale thing we have and can bet upon is RO8 Rogue form changing from the future champion into a foreigner(unless he plays Maru ).
The code S of 2018 was so stale that out of possible 24 different RO8 players we had 16!!! SIXTEEN different RO8 players in the whole year. And only Maru repeated more than once(Repeated contestants: Maru, Gumi, TY, Zest, Rogue, Classic and Stats)
Edit> At the same time out of the 4 WCS circuits we could have 32 different players and we had, prepare the drums, epic diversity of 16 different players. AW YEAH.
On February 06 2019 18:32 deacon.frost wrote: I read it and it's even worse than the patch zerg thing. Sadly it's a TL official article.
Yeah, the GSL is so stale Innovation managed to get out of the easiest RO16 group in S1 and lose the form for the whole year. (Scarlett, you monster! ) Neeb managed to get into RO4. Zest managed to get into the finals, was hyped so much and then the shortest final series happened. TY lost to his own build the Code S title. soO made RO4 in the first season and then what? Such a stale Code S that Classic didn't make it into RO16 Season 3. Stats, one of the best Protosses out there, the Season 1 finalist, such a stale hero. Couldn't make it out of RO16 and finished the last in his group in the 2nd season. Such a stalemate. Wow.
I mean, c'mon, I am no TL writer but obviously I manage to see some things are different. The only stale thing we have and can bet upon is RO8 Rogue form changing from the future champion into a foreigner(unless he plays Maru ).
The code S of 2018 was so stale that out of possible 24 different RO8 players we had 16!!! SIXTEEN different RO8 players in the whole year. And only Maru repeated more than once(Repeated contestants: Maru, Gumi, TY, Zest, Rogue, Classic and Stats)
Edit> At the same time out of the 4 WCS circuits we could have 32 different players and we had, prepare the drums, epic diversity of 16 different players. AW YEAH.
Not a stale tournament. Nope. No sir.
Yeah, someone definitely needs attention.
I apologize for so many edits, I'm at work and dividing the time xD
On February 06 2019 18:32 deacon.frost wrote: I read it and it's even worse than the patch zerg thing. Sadly it's a TL official article.
Yeah, the GSL is so stale Innovation managed to get out of the easiest RO16 group in S1 and lose the form for the whole year. (Scarlett, you monster! ) Neeb managed to get into RO4. Zest managed to get into the finals, was hyped so much and then the shortest final series happened. TY lost to his own build the Code S title. soO made RO4 in the first season and then what? Such a stale Code S that Classic didn't make it into RO16 Season 3. Stats, one of the best Protosses out there, the Season 1 finalist, such a stale hero. Couldn't make it out of RO16 and finished the last in his group in the 2nd season. Such a stalemate. Wow.
I mean, c'mon, I am no TL writer but obviously I manage to see some things are different. The only stale thing we have and can bet upon is RO8 Rogue form changing from the future champion into a foreigner(unless he plays Maru ).
The code S of 2018 was so stale that out of possible 24 different RO8 players we had 16!!! SIXTEEN different RO8 players in the whole year. And only Maru repeated more than once(Repeated contestants: Maru, Gumi, TY, Zest, Rogue, Classic and Stats)
Edit> At the same time out of the 4 WCS circuits we could have 32 different players and we had, prepare the drums, epic diversity of 16 different players. AW YEAH.
Not a stale tournament. Nope. No sir.
Edit2> Also 4 players repeated more than once. Players who repeated 3 times - Serral(duh), 2 times - Nerchio, Heromarine and Showtime. (this means 4 RO8 and 3 RO8 appearances). While I believe the only player who repeated RO8 more than once in the GSL is Maru(duh)).
I think you missed the point of the article a bit. It's not only about the same players advancing every time but just that the storylines get a bit repetitive after so many years with the same set of players. Is another Zest vs Maru final that exciting when both are already multiple time GSL/korean premier champions and we have seen them face off in the GSL countless times already? I enjoy watching GSL 100 times more than WCS and always will but even I have to admit WCS had more interesting storylines last year (Reynor vs Serral finals, Mana and Has' surprise runs. Lambo and Heromarine establishing themselves as top players etc). The novelty factor is just higher there.
Yes - Maru winning GSL 3 times in a row was an amazing storyline but that was the only thing that really sticked out story-line-wise last year and looking forward to this year I don't see much changing. I guess Dark or soO winning a GSL or maybe Inno winning the G5L could be very exciting but except that I don't see much potential for new interesting storylines.
well done Mizenhauer - all 3 of the regular korean elitists have bitten this. What is more enjoyable is of course a thing of personal preference, and for me WCS has been fun to watch for the last couple of years.
On February 06 2019 18:32 deacon.frost wrote: I read it and it's even worse than the patch zerg thing. Sadly it's a TL official article.
Yeah, the GSL is so stale Innovation managed to get out of the easiest RO16 group in S1 and lose the form for the whole year. (Scarlett, you monster! ) Neeb managed to get into RO4. Zest managed to get into the finals, was hyped so much and then the shortest final series happened. TY lost to his own build the Code S title. soO made RO4 in the first season and then what? Such a stale Code S that Classic didn't make it into RO16 Season 3. Stats, one of the best Protosses out there, the Season 1 finalist, such a stale hero. Couldn't make it out of RO16 and finished the last in his group in the 2nd season. Such a stalemate. Wow.
I mean, c'mon, I am no TL writer but obviously I manage to see some things are different. The only stale thing we have and can bet upon is RO8 Rogue form changing from the future champion into a foreigner(unless he plays Maru ).
The code S of 2018 was so stale that out of possible 24 different RO8 players we had 16!!! SIXTEEN different RO8 players in the whole year. And only Maru repeated more than once(Repeated contestants: Maru, Gumi, TY, Zest, Rogue, Classic and Stats)
Edit> At the same time out of the 4 WCS circuits we could have 32 different players and we had, prepare the drums, epic diversity of 16 different players. AW YEAH.
Not a stale tournament. Nope. No sir.
Edit2> Also 4 players repeated more than once. Players who repeated 3 times - Serral(duh), 2 times - Nerchio, Heromarine and Showtime. (this means 4 RO8 and 3 RO8 appearances). While I believe the only player who repeated RO8 more than once in the GSL is Maru(duh)).
I think you missed the point of the article a bit. It's not only about the same players advancing every time but just that the storylines get a bit repetitive after so many years with the same set of players. Is another Zest vs Maru final that exciting when both are already multiple time GSL/korean premier champions and we have seen them face off in the GSL countless times already? I enjoy watching GSL 100 times more than WCS and always will but even I have to admit WCS had more interesting storylines this year (Reynor vs Serral finals, Mana and Has' surprise runs. Lambo and Heromarine establishing themselves as top players etc). The novelty factor is just higher there.
I rather look for diversity in players than for "novelty" in MaNa(no offense to MaNa, love you mate, but you've been in SC2 forever ). WCS is the stale of those two. I give them credit that WCS sells story better(considering the top player is faceless foreigner ), but that's IMO the problem of media coverage of the Korean SC2 scene IMO.
Edit> Thinking about it I'm not sure who gives worst interviews, if Maru or Serral.
On February 06 2019 10:45 Rodya wrote: So basically, the WCS has significantly lower quality games overall, but you think we should still watch it because of... some kind of drama?
This reasoning is what we call the EG effect. Selling out the game for some short-term profits through manufactured drama, longevity be damned.
Its funny how people still argue WCS are "low quality games". The average skill in GSL is still a little higher, but WCS has gotten very close. Serral was definitely the best player of 2018 and multiple players in WCS have brought him to the edge, even if no one managed to beat him, but no korean managed to do that either. I like both tounaments a lot, for the record.
Other than the miracle runs of Has, Mana, and Reynor, I'm not sure WCS was any less stale than GSL to be honest. It was mostly the same players in the ro16/8 each stop iirc. The difference is WCS felt fresh, it didn't feel like a weaker version of an 8 a year old tournament like Code S. Even though the level of play was still a lot lower.
Still, GSL had more exiting moments than people give it credit for because Serral's achievement outshone everything else this year. Maru's first finals in 8 years, that season 1 match against Dark might still be the series of the year in my book. The repeat championship with unrivalled dominance in season 2, and then the tension with how close he came to losing in season 3. Scarlett and Neeb's playoff runs were the first non-korean threat in Code S in forever. Even Reynor's breakout performance was GSL season 3, even if people it being WCS Montreal.
On February 06 2019 20:56 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: well done Mizenhauer - all 3 of the regular korean elitists have bitten this. What is more enjoyable is of course a thing of personal preference, and for me WCS has been fun to watch for the last couple of years.
Kinda hard not to, if you ignore you could say 'Korean elitists so frustrated by the article they do not even comment' if you counter this article with facts you get 'Korean elitist have taken the bait'....
On February 06 2019 22:37 yht9657 wrote: So basically the fact that top WCS players are so bad that they couldn't even guarantee a win over Has makes WCS better than GSL?
Makes WCS more entertaining than GSL. For those who only watch to see the highest level play that obviously won't apply.
I can't be the only one who got tired of WCS P/Z fest in later rounds, can I?
Yeah seeing relatively bad players like Has and MaNa manage to go to the finals was funny to read about, but not necessarily to watch, and the coolest things to watch WCS related were not in the WCS themselves but breakout performances from WCS players in other tournaments against koreans:
Serral runs in IEM Katowice and WESG with the revenge on Classic (and ofc BlizzCon / GSL event), Reynor massive upset in GSL against Classic, Scarlett resurgence in IEM Pyongchang, Special miracle win against Classic, HeroMarine who threw games against Zest and sOs, Neeb back to top foreigner with a GSL ro4 appearance.
Comparatively in WCS you got a thrilling match between Serral and Reynor (and some close bo5 between Serral and other zergs), other than that I don't remember much from WCS 2018.
On February 06 2019 22:57 Poopi wrote: I can't be the only one who got tired of WCS P/Z fest in later rounds, can I?
Yeah seeing relatively bad players like Has and MaNa manage to go to the finals was funny to read about, but not necessarily to watch, and the coolest things to watch WCS related were not in the WCS themselves but breakout performances from WCS players in other tournaments against koreans:
Serral runs in IEM Katowice and WESG with the revenge on Classic (and ofc BlizzCon / GSL event), Reynor massive upset in GSL against Classic, Scarlett resurgence in IEM Pyongchang, Special miracle win against Classic, HeroMarine who threw games against Zest and sOs, Neeb back to top foreigner with a GSL ro4 appearance.
Comparatively in WCS you got a thrilling match between Serral and Reynor (and some close bo5 between Serral and other zergs), other than that I don't remember much from WCS 2018.
WCS ZvZ games between Serral and Reynor, Lambo and Scarlett were some of my favorite series of 2018, Yes, I hated PvZ, but many of the ZvZ were surprisingly fun.
While i agree with the article in that there are hardly new storylines in gsl and that makes it somewhat stale, in general people get excited for it because of its history and meaning in the context of sc2. That's still the most important factor when looking at the gsl i think.
Looking at wcs i would argue that the main factor why it was more memorable isn't mana or has or even reynor makign these runs, it is serral waiting in the finals, the david vs goliath factor. Serral single handedly legitimised the whole wcs tournament scene because it was clear that he is around top korean lvl (and later he proved that he is in fact at the very top). It is basically the korean vs foreigner effect. Remove serral and i doubt people would have been anywhere near as interested in any of these "narratives", it would lack proper gravitas.
On February 06 2019 22:05 Fango wrote: Other than the miracle runs of Has, Mana, and Reynor, I'm not sure WCS was any less stale than GSL to be honest. It was mostly the same players in the ro16/8 each stop iirc. The difference is WCS felt fresh, it didn't feel like a weaker version of an 8 a year old tournament like Code S. Even though the level of play was still a lot lower.
Still, GSL had more exiting moments than people give it credit for because Serral's achievement outshone everything else this year. Maru's first finals in 8 years, that season 1 match against Dark might still be the series of the year in my book. The repeat championship with unrivalled dominance in season 2, and then the tension with how close he came to losing in season 3. Scarlett and Neeb's playoff runs were the first non-korean threat in Code S in forever. Even Reynor's breakout performance was GSL season 3, even if people it being WCS Montreal.
I actually provided numbers. WCS is more stale than GSL. They're just better at providing story which is mostly done by the domination by Serral. Look at the hype Zest received and how everyone tried to provide the story and then Maru just denied everything, gave uninspiring interview and left smiling.
On February 07 2019 00:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: While i agree with the article in that there are hardly new storylines in gsl and that makes it somewhat stale, in general people get excited for it because of its history and meaning in the context of sc2. That's still the most important factor when looking at the gsl i think.
Looking at wcs i would argue that the main factor why it was more memorable isn't mana or has or even reynor makign these runs, it is serral waiting in the finals, the david vs goliath factor. Serral single handedly legitimised the whole wcs tournament scene because it was clear that he is around top korean lvl (and later he proved that he is in fact at the very top). It is basically the korean vs foreigner effect. Remove serral and i doubt people would have been anywhere near as interested in any of these "narratives", it would lack proper gravitas.
IMO WCS had always have better story telling. Even Artosis admitted it in one of the first Pylon shows(I didn't watch many of them, so it had to be something up to the number 10 ). It's harder to provide the story for Koreans to the foreign audience.
On February 06 2019 22:05 Fango wrote: Other than the miracle runs of Has, Mana, and Reynor, I'm not sure WCS was any less stale than GSL to be honest. It was mostly the same players in the ro16/8 each stop iirc. The difference is WCS felt fresh, it didn't feel like a weaker version of an 8 a year old tournament like Code S. Even though the level of play was still a lot lower.
Still, GSL had more exiting moments than people give it credit for because Serral's achievement outshone everything else this year. Maru's first finals in 8 years, that season 1 match against Dark might still be the series of the year in my book. The repeat championship with unrivalled dominance in season 2, and then the tension with how close he came to losing in season 3. Scarlett and Neeb's playoff runs were the first non-korean threat in Code S in forever. Even Reynor's breakout performance was GSL season 3, even if people it being WCS Montreal.
I actually provided numbers. WCS is more stale than GSL. They're just better at providing story which is mostly done by the domination by Serral. Look at the hype Zest received and how everyone tried to provide the story and then Maru just denied everything, gave uninspiring interview and left smiling.
On February 07 2019 00:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: While i agree with the article in that there are hardly new storylines in gsl and that makes it somewhat stale, in general people get excited for it because of its history and meaning in the context of sc2. That's still the most important factor when looking at the gsl i think.
Looking at wcs i would argue that the main factor why it was more memorable isn't mana or has or even reynor makign these runs, it is serral waiting in the finals, the david vs goliath factor. Serral single handedly legitimised the whole wcs tournament scene because it was clear that he is around top korean lvl (and later he proved that he is in fact at the very top). It is basically the korean vs foreigner effect. Remove serral and i doubt people would have been anywhere near as interested in any of these "narratives", it would lack proper gravitas.
IMO WCS had always have better story telling. Even Artosis admitted it in one of the first Pylon shows(I didn't watch many of them, so it had to be something up to the number 10 ). It's harder to provide the story for Koreans to the foreign audience.
GSL is the only tournament where I woke up at like 5am during holidays in order to watch Maru destroy Zest not even for the finals but for the semi finals tho :D It's more oriented towards the hardcore sc followers whereas the WCS attracts both hardcore and casual viewers
Also the fact that Serral was invincible for a few months before almost losing to Lambo, Scarlett AND Reynor in the last tournament made the tournament that more exciting to watch, it was really the final boss. For the same reason Maru vs TY finals had even more stakes than an usual Maru vs TY bo7, because 3 GSLs in a row is unprecedented.
WCS or GSL being more stale be damned, 2018 was a fucking great starcraft 2 year either way
One could argue that the BW ASL is going to become the same thing. And even further it's winners were established players from the Kespa era who are reproving their continued abilities from MSL/ASL days. I think what drives the fun factor in regards to storylines are the new players that sneak their way in. Usually the Ro24 and Ro16 add tons of fun because we get to see the new rotation of low tier players put their best strategies to the test against the elite. Ro8 onward is less about weaker player storylines and more about how awesome the games will be as the titans finally get to face each other in prepared matches.
This applies to SC2 in the same way. These days it is not about royal roads, but about how the Elite SC2 players have adjusted and tweaked their performances to put up amazing play against their opponents. 2018 was awesome in the way that Maru was immune to all attempts to overtake him when it came to prepared best of series. And even though his "easy" reign is arguably dull, it creates an amazing storyline for 2019. This GSL1 give us patch changes and map changes that vary so strongly from 2018 + plus a new skillset of players such as Fantasy's mech style that will certainly present new challenges to Maru that we can all enjoy watching. It's almost as if 2018's unhypeness of the GSL is setting us up for an even greater 2019 year. Bottom line it's going be tons of fun to watch!
Interesting points! While personally I enjoyed GSL over WCS (albeit that having other variables like casting, format, etc.) I do agree with the fact that the storylines, especially the second place finishes were more exciting in the WCS side, with the exception of TY vs Maru which was actually one of the sickest Code S finals ever imo.
I hope we return to the system of integrated points for foreigners and koreans to have 13-14 koreans in global finals and 2-3 foreigners who REALLY deserve that. and then let's see who prevails!