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Now we just need European players qualifying through the KR qualifiers to complete the cycle.
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Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here.
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On January 09 2019 05:27 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Now we just need European players qualifying through the KR qualifiers to complete the cycle.
Looking at you, Zanster!
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On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here.
I don't know; Reynor beat Gumiho and Bunny, who, regardless of the the Korea/EU lag and suboptimal timezones, did pretty well against other top EU talent.
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United States33553 Posts
On January 09 2019 05:27 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Now we just need European players qualifying through the KR qualifiers to complete the cycle.
Maybe Taiwan will win all the spots
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On January 09 2019 05:29 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here. I don't know; Reynor beat Gumiho and Bunny, who, regardless of the the Korea/EU lag and suboptimal timezones, did pretty well against other top EU talent.
Yeah just felt like he was doing extremely well in the 4th quarter of 2018 so I had high hopes he'd qualify here. Losing to Neeb isn't a big surprise I guess, but 0-2 against Showtime was for me. But I did not see those games so perhaps Showtime played amazing.
OR he is just having trouble with ZvP atm.
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On January 09 2019 05:47 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 05:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here. I don't know; Reynor beat Gumiho and Bunny, who, regardless of the the Korea/EU lag and suboptimal timezones, did pretty well against other top EU talent. Yeah just felt like he was doing extremely well in the 4th quarter of 2018 so I had high hopes he'd qualify here. Losing to Neeb isn't a big surprise I guess, but 0-2 against Showtime was for me. But I did not see those games so perhaps Showtime played amazing. OR he is just having trouble with ZvP atm.
Quite possibly a bit of both. Zerg has had some nerfs, so the matchup needs some getting used to, and while Reynor did win game 1, he did get somewhat shutdown in games 2-4. It wasn't a thrashing by any means, but it did look like one player was better than the other.
So Reynor's on a losing streak, and Showtime's on a winning streak, and that momentum edges Showtime out over Reynor.
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The ping from Korea to EU is much worse than that to NA.
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United States33553 Posts
On January 09 2019 06:38 yht9657 wrote:The ping from Korea to EU is much worse than that to NA.
yeah, the historical qualification rate of Koreans from European server is quite low across all tournaments, and many pros (Korean or otherwise) say KR to EU is "unplayable" (account for some progamer hyperbole)
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On January 09 2019 05:47 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 05:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here. I don't know; Reynor beat Gumiho and Bunny, who, regardless of the the Korea/EU lag and suboptimal timezones, did pretty well against other top EU talent. Yeah just felt like he was doing extremely well in the 4th quarter of 2018 so I had high hopes he'd qualify here. Losing to Neeb isn't a big surprise I guess, but 0-2 against Showtime was for me. But I did not see those games so perhaps Showtime played amazing. OR he is just having trouble with ZvP atm.
Reynor played really poorly vs lategame Protoss, he stayed on ling hydra the whole game with a super late transition to corruptors, You need neural and vipers to beat carriers mothership.
He tried to play aggressively in the mid game but Showtime defended pretty well and he was stuck with ling Hydra.
His ZvT is still amazing though, he picks Terrans apart extremely well, but his ZvP needs some work.
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On January 09 2019 06:43 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 06:38 yht9657 wrote:The ping from Korea to EU is much worse than that to NA. yeah, the historical qualification rate of Koreans from European server is quite low across all tournaments, and many pros (Korean or otherwise) say KR to EU is "unplayable" (account for some progamer hyperbole)
Which makes it pretty crazy that Special qualified for this without losing a series (although he was helped by a mega throw by uThermal).
I know some matches were played with fair ping (eg. Neeb vs Elazer) but afaik, all of Special's games were on EU? Crazy stuff.
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All the Koreans got wrecked 
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Bisutopia19307 Posts
On January 09 2019 05:47 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 05:29 FrkFrJss wrote:On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here. I don't know; Reynor beat Gumiho and Bunny, who, regardless of the the Korea/EU lag and suboptimal timezones, did pretty well against other top EU talent. Yeah just felt like he was doing extremely well in the 4th quarter of 2018 so I had high hopes he'd qualify here. Losing to Neeb isn't a big surprise I guess, but 0-2 against Showtime was for me. But I did not see those games so perhaps Showtime played amazing. OR he is just having trouble with ZvP atm.
Looking at tournament results from now through the fourth quarter, all his loses are generally to really great players. He is right there below the top and just needs to improve like 3 more percentage points to break that plain.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon...
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On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon...
Well our Rodya friend was suggesting koreans would advance in these conditions.
That ping is huge, maybe the situation has slightly improved during the years? You could probably be able to macro but you would get smashed at every single engagement.
It still has to be relevant tho as not a single korean qualified in 2017 as well!
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Dang, EU needs to catch up to KR and NA.
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On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon...
LOL dude no one gone play with 400ping, its max 150 and lower
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On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon...
Ping to European servers from Korea (Seoul to Amsterdam) should "only" roughly be ~275-300 ms (which is still a lot). That being said internet routing is a crapshoot and there are definitely ways to improve that with proxies. I heard Rail used to (and probably still does) get decent ping to Korea from Moscow using a proxy. It's unclear how many players are using proxies to help their connection though.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 09 2019 09:19 Kikirik1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... LOL dude no one gone play with 400ping, its max 150 and lower
Can you provide better statistics?
Random Google page:
https://wondernetwork.com/pings
Paris - Seoul is according to this page 300 ms, Copenhagen - 320, London 310.
So either give me more reliable numbers or please realize how bad it is.
Sadly I can't ping from work to post our corporate numbers for some reason. Everything in Korea has probably denied ping requests  (as I can ping Europe/NA things)
Edit> Also realize that in SC2 case you don't have just the ping response but you have some time added by managing the data itself by the game/server plus added players connection to the nation server. Also realize that 30ms is the best possible result you can get if we think about no infrastructure and direct connection from Paris to Seoul(9m m vs 300m m/s).
Edit2> Paris was randomly chosen as I think that Blizzard's data center is in France. I have actually no clue where it is and honestly I don't care, Paris is more or less the center of western Europe.
On January 09 2019 10:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... Ping to European servers from Korea (Seoul to Amsterdam) should "only" roughly be ~275-300 ms (which is still a lot). That being said internet routing is a crapshoot and there are definitely ways to improve that with proxies. I heard Rail used to (and probably still does) get decent ping to Korea from Moscow using a proxy. It's unclear how many players are using proxies to help their connection though.
Sure, I'm not saying those numbers are reliable but even 300 ms is a huge number in this game. So many peopel are obsessed with APM and don't realize how much is 300 ms ping. FFS even 250 ms ping would be huge.
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Kr to EU is unplayable but special did it from korea, it's insane how good of a run he did
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On January 09 2019 17:29 Mlord wrote:
Kr to EU is unplayable but special did it from korea, it's insane how good of a run he did
Very impressive!
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On January 09 2019 17:29 Mlord wrote:
Kr to EU is unplayable but special did it from korea, it's insane how good of a run he did
Oh wow didn't even realize... Now that's impressive
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On January 09 2019 17:29 Mlord wrote:
Kr to EU is unplayable but special did it from korea, it's insane how good of a run he did
For real he played that from KR? Thats complettely insane
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On January 09 2019 05:27 HolydaKing wrote:
Not a great start of the year for Reynor. The NA players did really well here.
He played really well! Just needs to work on his ZvP.
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On January 09 2019 17:14 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 09:19 Kikirik1 wrote:On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... LOL dude no one gone play with 400ping, its max 150 and lower Can you provide better statistics? Random Google page: https://wondernetwork.com/pingsParis - Seoul is according to this page 300 ms, Copenhagen - 320, London 310. So either give me more reliable numbers or please realize how bad it is. Sadly I can't ping from work to post our corporate numbers for some reason. Everything in Korea has probably denied ping requests (as I can ping Europe/NA things) Edit> Also realize that in SC2 case you don't have just the ping response but you have some time added by managing the data itself by the game/server plus added players connection to the nation server. Also realize that 30ms is the best possible result you can get if we think about no infrastructure and direct connection from Paris to Seoul(9m m vs 300m m/s). Edit2> Paris was randomly chosen as I think that Blizzard's data center is in France. I have actually no clue where it is and honestly I don't care, Paris is more or less the center of western Europe. Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 10:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... Ping to European servers from Korea (Seoul to Amsterdam) should "only" roughly be ~275-300 ms (which is still a lot). That being said internet routing is a crapshoot and there are definitely ways to improve that with proxies. I heard Rail used to (and probably still does) get decent ping to Korea from Moscow using a proxy. It's unclear how many players are using proxies to help their connection though. Sure, I'm not saying those numbers are reliable but even 300 ms is a huge number in this game. So many peopel are obsessed with APM and don't realize how much is 300 ms ping. FFS even 250 ms ping would be huge.
I have no stats, but i playing warcarft3 with 400ping beffore years, and i'm sure its inposibal to playing decent game with this ping, even 150 is pretty bad for pro level.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 09 2019 19:03 Kikirik1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 17:14 deacon.frost wrote:On January 09 2019 09:19 Kikirik1 wrote:On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... LOL dude no one gone play with 400ping, its max 150 and lower Can you provide better statistics? Random Google page: https://wondernetwork.com/pingsParis - Seoul is according to this page 300 ms, Copenhagen - 320, London 310. So either give me more reliable numbers or please realize how bad it is. Sadly I can't ping from work to post our corporate numbers for some reason. Everything in Korea has probably denied ping requests (as I can ping Europe/NA things) Edit> Also realize that in SC2 case you don't have just the ping response but you have some time added by managing the data itself by the game/server plus added players connection to the nation server. Also realize that 30ms is the best possible result you can get if we think about no infrastructure and direct connection from Paris to Seoul(9m m vs 300m m/s). Edit2> Paris was randomly chosen as I think that Blizzard's data center is in France. I have actually no clue where it is and honestly I don't care, Paris is more or less the center of western Europe. On January 09 2019 10:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... Ping to European servers from Korea (Seoul to Amsterdam) should "only" roughly be ~275-300 ms (which is still a lot). That being said internet routing is a crapshoot and there are definitely ways to improve that with proxies. I heard Rail used to (and probably still does) get decent ping to Korea from Moscow using a proxy. It's unclear how many players are using proxies to help their connection though. Sure, I'm not saying those numbers are reliable but even 300 ms is a huge number in this game. So many peopel are obsessed with APM and don't realize how much is 300 ms ping. FFS even 250 ms ping would be huge. I have no stats, but i playing warcarft3 with 400ping beffore years, and i'm sure its inposibal to playing decent game with this ping, even 150 is pretty bad for pro level.
Thank you. That. Was. The. Point. Of. The. Post.
That Koreans play with a huge disadvantage
So it's a misunderstanding then.
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On January 09 2019 09:19 Kikirik1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2019 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:Ping Korea - NA is between 100 and 150 ms. Ping to European servers from Korea is between 350 and 400 ms IIRC, somebody was posting these numbers during the old WCS when Koreans were dominating NA WCS. IF Koreans would be able to get the spots with this handicap I would seriously recommended to all European players to find another hobby... we're talking about almost half a second delay in a game where this number of time can mean your army isn't no longer there anymore. C'mon... LOL dude no one gone play with 400ping, its max 150 and lower
You should play on NA. Every other game is 400 ping on the singapore server.
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Nerchio was definitely right about EU being the strongest region :D
On another note, did SpeCial really qualify from korea?! I know Zest said on stream that the ping is unplayable, and half the others didn't even try
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On January 09 2019 23:17 Fango wrote:
Nerchio was definitely right about EU being the strongest region :D
On another note, did SpeCial really qualify from korea?! I know Zest said on stream that the ping is unplayable, and half the others didn't even try
For stage 1 they even streamed his FPV from the Unity house.
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On January 09 2019 23:17 Fango wrote:
Nerchio was definitely right about EU being the strongest region :D
On another note, did SpeCial really qualify from korea?! I know Zest said on stream that the ping is unplayable, and half the others didn't even try
EU is the strongest region as it has the best player
Korea as a whole is ofc miles ahead whereas NA is overall weaker but top form Neeb and Special might just be the strongest foreigners excluding Serral(especially now that Reynor and Elazer are not in great shape).
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Im out of the loop on this one, i mean i get Koreans playing on EU, but why has NA moved to EU qualifiers, wtf?
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On January 10 2019 03:25 Geo.Rion wrote:
Im out of the loop on this one, i mean i get Koreans playing on EU, but why has NA moved to EU qualifiers, wtf?
Because they didn't qualify in the NA server qualifier
the order of qualis is:
NA -> EU -> KR #1 -> KR #2
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Reynor almost made it to Stage 2 of the Korean Qualifier, and ofc Special qualified yday KR to EU, all of which are really impressive. As someone who plays with 300 ping a lot, I can attest to how hard it is but i'd argue it is more "playable" than people are saying. It definitely sucks but it can be mitigated by some smart play, we saw yesterday how Special used a lot of siege tank contains in TvP which were super strong and relied more on position rather than micro.
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/iem/katowice2019/iemkatowice2019banner.jpg)
SpeCial, 
