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HGC cancelled, What does it mean for SC2 ? - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 01:55:38
December 15 2018 01:52 GMT
#61
If Blizzard was smart and wanted to save face they would announce the WCS format soon.

Also, I don't want Starcraft 3 unless if they work on it for 10+ years. They need a new game engine, and I question how they continue the story.

Look how much has changed in Starcraft 2 over 8 years. It's a huge game, and just keeps getting better. A new game is a step backwards!
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
December 15 2018 01:54 GMT
#62
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote:
Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.

IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.
MrWayne
Profile Joined December 2016
219 Posts
December 15 2018 02:04 GMT
#63
On December 15 2018 10:54 Vutalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote:
Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.

IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.


GSL and all the WCS stops are also hosted by third party organisation AKA Dream Hack and Afreeca tv. As this ESL guy said, WCS has way better scalability than HGC.
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
December 15 2018 02:14 GMT
#64
On December 15 2018 11:04 MrWayne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 10:54 Vutalisk wrote:
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote:
Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.

IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.


GSL and all the WCS stops are also hosted by third party organisation AKA Dream Hack and Afreeca tv. As this ESL guy said, WCS has way better scalability than HGC.

I know GSL and WCS are hosted by Afreeca and DreamHack. For GSL, Blizzard is literally the title sponsor and they carry GSL financially while AfreecaTV doing production. Without Blizzard, AfreecaTV will not host GSL. Just look at SPOTV, they dropped SSL when Blizzard dropped the funding and they couldn't find any sponsors. SSL only happened in 2017 because JinAir sponsored. I don't think Blizzard provided anything for SPOTV during 2017. Same can be said for DreamHack. Blizzard basically picks 4 events out of the whole DH series and host SC2 events. I doubt DreamHack will host SC2 if Blizzard drops the funding. IEM Katowice is often announced before Blizzard officially announces WCS. It is almost like ESL wants to host the event independently and Blizzard just adds the event into the WCS schedule. Maybe some support in term of prize pool but as I said, Katowice is sponsored by a lot of big names so ESL can handle the SC2 prize pool if needed.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 02:40:24
December 15 2018 02:27 GMT
#65
On December 15 2018 10:30 Vutalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 09:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
maynarde tweets

ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.

If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.

if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.

That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.


Blizzard employees spoke to Kala just days earlier. UNless he is lying about that. I doubt he is. Its more likely these Blizzard employees sincerely believed what they were saying to Kala. And then someone way above their management level changed plans. This is what happens when you get a new CEO man.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/347847594?t=03h41m44s
"Tempo Storm coach Kala said he spoke to high up Blizzard reps at blizzcon and they said everything would be at least as big if not more support coming this year. As of 2 days ago this was his outlook on the prospects of HGC being canceled."
https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/heroes/539934-hgc-and-heroes-of-the-dorm-cancelled-hots-dying#1

Haven't you ever worked at a place where a new CEO takeover occurs? Its standard for everyone to think and say 1 thing.. and the CEO says "not true any more .. this is what we're doing"

To borrow a quote from Dana White..."not all the blood has been spilled".
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3417127-activision-minus-1_8-percent-needham-cuts-estimates-price-target?app=1
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
ionONE
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany605 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 15:54:54
December 15 2018 15:54 GMT
#66
Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments)
Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.

To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news")
https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames

On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore.
Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!
JANGBI never forget
Thorix77
Profile Joined August 2012
Poland12 Posts
December 15 2018 16:03 GMT
#67
On December 16 2018 00:54 ionONE wrote:
Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments)
Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.

To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news")
https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames

On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore.
Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!


Did he say if he knows anything about other blizzard esports games?
ionONE
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany605 Posts
December 15 2018 16:16 GMT
#68
On December 16 2018 01:03 Thorix77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2018 00:54 ionONE wrote:
Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments)
Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.

To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news")
https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames

On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore.
Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!


Did he say if he knows anything about other blizzard esports games?


No, nothing on other games. (he was slightly drunk too)
direct link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/349321423?t=04h44m41s

Just checked Warchest 4 should be announced 18.12, so earliest Monday more infos ...
JANGBI never forget
xtorn
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
4060 Posts
December 15 2018 16:33 GMT
#69
On December 14 2018 23:44 Musicus wrote:
No game is safe in the new Activision Blizzard.


this pretty much sums it up
Life - forever the Legend in my heart
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 16:54:26
December 15 2018 16:46 GMT
#70
As long as revenue was growing Morhaime was permitted a host of pet projects which turned out to be money burning firepits. Activision led the way in lengthening the development cycles of CoD and other games while EA stuck to brutal annualized launches. Activision permitted the cancellation of two very long term Blizzard projects in SC:Ghost and Titan. There were probably several more.

Activision has under written plenty of innovation within the industry. Activision is all right and Bobby Kotick is an excellent long term planner guy.

Via Brack, Kotick will re-focus Blizzard. That includes telling Blizzard to stop with its bizarre social engineering initiatives and focus on what makes profit: making games.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 16:59:40
December 15 2018 16:59 GMT
#71
Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 17:27:19
December 15 2018 17:07 GMT
#72
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote:
Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?

Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.

Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
December 15 2018 18:43 GMT
#73
On December 16 2018 02:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote:
Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?

Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.

Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.


Too true, unfortunately this is the same company that's said such patronising things as "you think you want that but you don't" and "don't you people have phones?", or who could forget "the technology isn't there yet". It doesn't seem like communication with its customers/fans is too high up the priority tree.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
December 15 2018 18:44 GMT
#74
Tbh I came back to SC2 in 2018 after a 2/3 year break because it was declining on the esports side and in the direction that LOTV was going just before release. I am glad I came back because the game is in a good state now I feel and the scene is going strong, so I would not worry about this.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
December 15 2018 23:21 GMT
#75
On December 16 2018 03:43 207aicila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2018 02:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote:
Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?

Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.

Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.


Too true, unfortunately this is the same company that's said such patronising things as "you think you want that but you don't" and "don't you people have phones?", or who could forget "the technology isn't there yet". It doesn't seem like communication with its customers/fans is too high up the priority tree.


I am more and more convince that the Nintendo strategy of pre-recording all your shit and never allow for direct interaction between the company and the fan is the best way to go.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-16 00:26:51
December 15 2018 23:54 GMT
#76
Nevermind.
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
December 16 2018 00:47 GMT
#77
Noticed I'm quoted a few times in the OP, good! It means NOTHING for WCS in 2019.

The only thing similar about HGC and WCS is that they're both run by Blizzard, WCS has been kicking goals in 2018 and will be just fine in 2019.

The only thing that the HGC announcement concerns me with is the way it was handled. I just hope the people at Blizzard / Activision that made the final decision learns a lesson from the outcry and pain they've caused in the Heroes community.

We want WCS and SC2 / SC esports in general to be treated as well as possible looking way down the line at 2020/21/22, whether it grows or shrinks in interest, just grow or shrink the investment with it. Don't just take it out behind a shed and shoot it before giving it all you got.
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-16 02:38:34
December 16 2018 01:59 GMT
#78
On December 16 2018 09:47 Maynarde wrote:
It means NOTHING for WCS in 2019.

i think the cancellation announcement for HGC means WCS is safe this year. I can't see Blizzard/ATVI "drip feeding" multiple cancellations.

When companies issue layoffs they don't lay off 5 people a day, every day for a month. They give all the bad news all at once and lay off 150 people on one day and try to put it behind them and move on. I can't see Blizzard announcing the end of WCS a few days or weeks after HGC cancellation. If WCS were to be axed for 2019 Blizzard would announce everything all at once. WCS and HGC would both get the axe on the same day.

So I think the HGC bad news is good news for WCS.

Now whether or not there are cutbacks to WCS, well, that is a completely separate question. Now Blizzard is in a position to issue substantial cutbacks with the rebuttal to any complaining being "hey at least WCS still exists, unlike HGC, so shut up and smile boys"
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
dummy1
Profile Blog Joined April 2018
420 Posts
December 16 2018 04:53 GMT
#79
We know that we will be betrayed again. Don't trust them anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DepressingStarcraft <- Maru VODs and stuff | END REGION-LOCK NOW
Kaz1
Profile Joined April 2015
35 Posts
December 16 2018 07:38 GMT
#80
Total speculation:
I imagine SC2 has a year left. I do not see them funding a game in a similar financial state any longer than that. There are no vanguards left. Blizzard has seemingly lost its autonomy to Activision. I don't see Blizz people knowingly telling HGC teams at Blizzcon that there would be an 2019 season with similar funding, having trailers of Heroes, etc. This means they did not make the call.
They also have 'more unannounced projects than ever' I do not see how they are going to keep funding WCS once these are put into public view. (It also shows they are not the same company with the same dev cycles as before. They are spreading their resources a lot. This definitely makes me pessimistic about the quality of what is coming next).
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