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HGC cancelled, What does it mean for SC2 ? - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-14 20:06:01
December 14 2018 20:04 GMT
#41
Some thoughts from Carmac (click on the tweet to see the whole thread)

Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
December 14 2018 20:21 GMT
#42
On December 15 2018 04:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote:
Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.

Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.


This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.

They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.

This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.

Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.


I agree with your sentiment that most game won't last as esport, I am a bit more pessimistic about older game lasting, sure if a game had at once a solid esport base people will still play it, but let's be honest we can't really say there is an "esport" scene around Quake/Unreal tournament or BW and WC3 outside of Korea/China, sure there are tournaments but no professional scene. Melee is kind of a strange case because the actual pro scene isn't that much older then SC2 it was pretty dead before it's return at Evo.

Lol, CSGO and Overwatch are gonna be the big tell in my opinion, it's gonna be interesting to see if they have become to big to just go quietly into the night. BW was the only other case where we could have seen if an esport can really stand the test of time but the pro scene got his head cut of.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
billynasty
Profile Joined October 2014
United States260 Posts
December 14 2018 20:23 GMT
#43
When HOTS 1st came out, Blizzard thru tons of money into it, trying to make it be an instant esport. Imo those types of artificial growth never really fully maturate that way. It needs to happen organically from the fans & from the ground up. So hearing this news now is no surprise to me. Perhaps only that it took them so long.

As for SC2, its for the most part an 8 year old game & the writing is on the wall for sure. But like others have said i don't think we should worry about it. If you care, simply do all you can to show your support. Its that support for SC that made everything possible in the 1st place. Play the game, watch your favorite SC2 streams & enjoy it while it lasts cuz nothings ever guaranteed to last.
i dont miss God but i sure miss Santa Claus
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
December 14 2018 20:29 GMT
#44
On December 15 2018 05:21 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 04:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote:
Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.

Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.


This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.

They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.

This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.

Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.


I agree with your sentiment that most game won't last as esport, I am a bit more pessimistic about older game lasting, sure if a game had at once a solid esport base people will still play it, but let's be honest we can't really say there is an "esport" scene around Quake/Unreal tournament or BW and WC3 outside of Korea/China, sure there are tournaments but no professional scene. Melee is kind of a strange case because the actual pro scene isn't that much older then SC2 it was pretty dead before it's return at Evo.

Lol, CSGO and Overwatch are gonna be the big tell in my opinion, it's gonna be interesting to see if they have become to big to just go quietly into the night. BW was the only other case where we could have seen if an esport can really stand the test of time but the pro scene got his head cut of.


I think a vast majority of Smash fans are hoping that Smash Ultimate can be good enough to finally pick up the torch that Melee wants to pass. Brawl wasn't and Smash 4 was decent for a little while but ultimately failed due to the unpopularity of the WII U among other things.

Starcraft 2, despite whatever Brood War players might want to say, DID generate a ton of new interest in the Brood War scene for Western Audiences or at least it revitalized it. Some mistakes early on prevented it from really catching on in Korea the way Brood War did but it definitely created a western Starcraft esports scene.

CS:GO picked up the torch for Counter-Strike and brought it to the new modern E-Sports era.

Street Fighter and other fighting games are self explanatory with all of their versions and updates.

I don't mean that EVERY SINGLE VERSION of EVERY SINGLE GOOD ESPORT GAME is going to last forever, but the title and legacy of the original good version does create a lasting loyalty that other games just coming on to the scene have to build fresh for themselves.

Games like Brawl and SC2 have proven that if the game isn't up to what the fans expect then they don't stay attached to them (to varying degrees), but they have shown that the initial excitement is at least there which is a big important part of making an esport popular.

That's more or less what I mean. People are going to continue to care about these titles because they have history and actual fan loyalty that goes beyond what version they are on. Games like HoTS, don't have that. They have to build it for themselves and if they can't they don't survive,
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-14 20:52:15
December 14 2018 20:52 GMT
#45
At least when sc2 wcs stops then we will get our game back
"not enough rights"
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
December 14 2018 21:02 GMT
#46
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
December 14 2018 21:07 GMT
#47
HotS was basically dead on arrival because of Dota and LoL already owning all of the market share in the genre, making it impossible for HotS to get a sustainable market share. SC2 is pretty much the only PC RTS that still has developer supported tournaments aside from BW's KSL, and is actually growing, so there isn't too much of a reason for Blizzard to abandon all hope for the game. Then again, there might not be enough loot crates in SC2 to keep the game profitable enough to justify its existence to Activision.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
December 14 2018 21:35 GMT
#48
On December 15 2018 06:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
https://twitter.com/Hot_Bid/status/1073682833124687873


Here's to hopping that Mike Morhaime didn't tell anyone about Starcraft when he left and everyone at Blizz just forgot about us. It will be our little secret just like how the world is reminded once a year at Blizzcon that WOW has a competitive arena mode and then everyone goes on with their life forgetting to shut it down.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
December 14 2018 21:59 GMT
#49
SC2 has a nice grassroots esports infrastructure. If Blizzard ends funding for WCS i think Blizzard will add funding to the grassroots people.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
December 14 2018 23:50 GMT
#50
The amount vieweships of sc2 wcs easily smash Hots tho
Its a successful esport game so no reason for blizz to do the same
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 00:05:19
December 15 2018 00:03 GMT
#51




"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
Hadronsbecrazy
Profile Joined September 2013
United Kingdom551 Posts
December 15 2018 00:12 GMT
#52
it means ded gaem
No need Build Orders, Only Micro,Favourite Players: Maru, Zest, soOjwa , CJherO
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 00:23:02
December 15 2018 00:17 GMT
#53
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
maynarde tweets

ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.

If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.

if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-15 01:12:42
December 15 2018 01:10 GMT
#54
On December 15 2018 09:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
maynarde tweets

ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.

If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.

if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.


Yeah, I think SC2 will be fine, but I understand people being paranoid. I mean come on, it's sort of the natural reaction when another esports game by the same company gets completely gutted without warning after being told their esports league would be "just as well or even more funded."

Based on the fact that it seems the Heroes staff at Blizzcon thought HGC would continue, It's not a huge leap to say that SC2 staff was also unaware.

I hope this just encourages Blizzard SC2 staff to release an announcement sooner rather than later, whatever the announcement is.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 15 2018 01:21 GMT
#55
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073717334144036864

https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073720448691499008

https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073724838894686208


just because the sc2 esports team has a plan for wcs doesn't mean the higher-ups will sign off on it
JoeCool
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany2520 Posts
December 15 2018 01:25 GMT
#56
On December 15 2018 10:21 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073717334144036864

https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073720448691499008

https://twitter.com/MaynardeSC2/status/1073724838894686208


just because the sc2 esports team has a plan for wcs doesn't mean the higher-ups will sign off on it


Actually, I do think that this is good news for SCII. We've heard nothing so far from Blizzard themselves but I don't think they'd made plans if they did not intend on repeating 2018. Especially since it was the most successful year SCII had in quite some time.
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
December 15 2018 01:28 GMT
#57
I expect SC2 esports to stick around for another year. However, I expect a scale-down for GSL. Probably only 2 seasons and maybe 2 Super Tournaments. Or they just have 3 seasons of GSL and cut ST completely.

For WCS, hopefully it will be the same like last year (No Austin but Dallas this time based on DH schedule for 2019). However, I can see they cut it down to 3. One US, one Canada and one in EU. Plus IEM Katowice is global.

Blizzard has been under a lot of financial pressures. They will scale back on esports no matter what. Just hope they don't cut SC2 esports completely like they did with Heroes. I still keep my hope seeing soO winning GSL.
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
December 15 2018 01:30 GMT
#58
On December 15 2018 09:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
maynarde tweets

ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.

If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.

if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.

That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
December 15 2018 01:47 GMT
#59
On December 15 2018 10:30 Vutalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2018 09:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote:
maynarde tweets

ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.

If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.

if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.

That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.


Which is what he means. At blizzcon Heroes staff told Heroes players that HGC would continue. Starting about 15 days ago, there was complete silence. The SC2 community summit also happened at Blizzcon, so the point he's making is that if Heroes staff might have been unaware of big changes coming, it's possible the same is true for SC2 staff.
MrWayne
Profile Joined December 2016
219 Posts
December 15 2018 01:48 GMT
#60
Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.
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