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It is a fact that hots hasnt changed for the best for the last year or so and a lot of people (myself included) stopped playing.
So keeping an expensive event with a dwindling scene doesnt make much sense. It also isnt very fun to watch anymore either (again, peronal opinion)
Now when i dont play bw, i just play overwatch for fun or, very rarely, some sc2 2v2 with a friend who is a bardcore sc2 lover. But the sc2 population is fairly stable and finding 2v2 games is fairly quick, which is impressive. Individual games also have the advantage of requiring less logistics to organise.
So we ll see what 2019 brings but the demise of the hgc might actually free up some funds for sc2 (and for a 2v2 bw ladder? One can dream)
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On December 15 2018 00:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote:
Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2. Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
This makes sense, kinda. But back in the BW days, there wasn't Warchest or skins or announcer packs to allows company to invest into esport. Now it exists.
And apparently SC2 players are willing to buy a lot of stuff to Blizzard if it means giving money to players in the end.
So I feel like it is quite safe for now
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I think it's alright to worry about SC2 right now after this and other + Show Spoiler + things going on with Blizz, but, as others have pointed out, Heroes and SC2 are very different situations. I'm not worried, things are looking pret-ty good for SC2 from where I'm standing. We'll see how 2019 goes for WCS, Korean players, and everything else from HSC to weekly cups to daily streamers.
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It can turn into an avalanche 'cause people, gamers, teams and sponsors from HGC will try to dive into D2. Trying to be far away from Blizzard-Activision. There is no trust. The unstable situation. It's a bad sign.
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SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately.
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Canada8989 Posts
By the way do you guys know if Hearstone esport is still a thing?
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On December 15 2018 01:20 Nakajin wrote:
By the way do you guys know if Hearstone esport is still a thing?
they announced HTC 2019 a few days ago with some changes and an increase prize pool iirc
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On December 15 2018 01:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately.
Very different instead. Sc2 is #1 RTS and it's on the rise(again) whereas HoTS, despite nobody expected it to be dropped, is just nowhere near LoL and DoTA2.
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On December 15 2018 01:38 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2018 01:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately. Very different instead. Sc2 is #1 RTS and it's on the rise(again) whereas HoTS, despite nobody expected it to be dropped, is just nowhere near LoL and DoTA2.
It did just have its best year in terms of tournament viewership but that didn't matter because as I said in my previous post, the fundamental way they were doing the e-sport side of things was too expensive to maintain.
I imagine we'll see a return to some kind of competitive aspect at some point, but much smaller in scale. No year round league like they were trying with HGC.
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The prizepool were so high for the viewership, they increased it one or two years ago i think, was HoTS a esport social experience ? 
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United States33367 Posts
WCS was better off than HGC, but how do we know that it's SO significantly better off that it's safe? We don't know how Blizzard evaluates the success of their esports leagues. Perhaps SC2 is safe, or perhaps the difference between SC2 and HotS is so minor as to be imperceptible to whoever makes these decisions at Blizzard ('why are we wasting money on anything that won't be OWL-big?'). All that goes to say we don't know enough about how Blizzard came to this HGC decision to draw any conclusions about how it relates to SC2.
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
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On December 15 2018 02:40 Waxangel wrote:
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
IMO this cancellation really puts blizzard in a bad light. HGC was still in the spotlight at blizzcon and teams/players/casters had zero idea it was going to get cancelled.
I have read about teams/players claiming that they have been trying to contact blizzard about hgc 2019 and was met with blanket silence and only knew about the cancellation like the rest of us. That to me is really a low blow.
SC2 might have increased viewership numbers these year but compared to the popular titles, i don't feel safe not knowing how blizzard would view it as financially viable or not.
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8748 Posts
I wouldn't worry too much. Obviously WCS and GSL are nice but if Blizzard pulls esports support, there will still be people playing so you can find matches if you want to play and still people streaming and putting together tournaments if you want to watch.
I think it's only the people who have bet their financial security on these tournaments existing who should worry about it.
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On December 15 2018 03:00 NonY wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much. Obviously WCS and GSL are nice but if Blizzard pulls esports support, there will still be people playing so you can find matches if you want to play and still people streaming and putting together tournaments if you want to watch.
I think it's only the people who have bet their financial security on these tournaments existing who should worry about it.
Serral's plan is to keep winning for 5 more years! Gotta keep it going that long at least!
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On December 15 2018 00:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote:
Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2. Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
I agree, in the end games are products of their respective companies and they can ultimately do with them what they deem best for their businesses - which will probably always be the fundamental difference between esports and regular sports. At the end of the day you can still go outside and shoot some balls or go play soccer with your friends without having to rely on a company's/association's goodwill.
So while esports emerged from the excitement of players/enthusiasts being able to compete with others in a structured league environment and/or watch people play the game they love at a much higher level than themselves, by today's standards it's ultimately just a marketing strategy. And that makes all funding for esports marketing costs which should absolutely paid for by the company trying to promote their game, but instead now they're trying to outsource parts of these costs to the customers in the form of Warchests in SC2 or the Compendium in Dota 2, just to further inflate already ridiculous prize pools instead of nurturing and maintaining a stable structure, that's what I have a problem with.
I mean, I think I kinda get it, it's a setup for an "exciting" narrative and the majority of people always look out for the bigger numbers, but still maybe it's about time to rethink some of the current "best" business practices in (online) gaming and consider where it all came from in the first place.
Edit: Also the way they've handled the cancellation can be considered ...scummy, to say the least.
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On December 15 2018 02:40 Waxangel wrote:
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
Yeah, I totally agree with this statement. Even though to me it seems like SC2 is a lock (especially with the Serral stuff) you just can't be careful enough when it comes to CEOs and shareholders.
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The only good thing Blizzard is doing these days is making the old classics come back(SC:Remastered, WC3 Reforged, WoW Classic). I don't care about anything else from Blizzard, and haven't done for a long time. I'll be enjoying the old classics for as many years as I can, and then if they make something good again I will be incredibly surprised, but I have 0% expectations for it.
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Canada8989 Posts
On December 15 2018 03:39 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2018 02:40 Waxangel wrote:
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table. Yeah, I totally agree with this statement. Even though to me it seems like SC2 is a lock (especially with the Serral stuff) you just can't be careful enough when it comes to CEOs and shareholders.
On a kinda positive note, up to now Blizz and Activision have been pretty good in keeping the server and the matchmaking system on the old games. I know COD6 server are still up and running (at least on PC), so even if the esport scene lose support from the company there is still a way to have grass root competition.
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Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
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On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote:
Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.
They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.
This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.
Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.
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EPT
