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On September 10 2018 10:56 kOrc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2018 08:38 Lexender wrote:
I just realized but isn't tenpest changes kind of insane?
Cheaper and less supply, while also being faster. I don't think lowering supply does anything here, it would only matter in low supply but a maxed out toss while be having more tempests and actually catching them will be really hard. Tempests just aren't used much in any situation except to counter range libs and ultra emergency brood lord counter, and even then the minimum possible number. They needed to be buffed a) to see more use and b) offset the kind of ridiculous carrier nerfs. Graviton catapult removal is a huge deal in nerfing sky toss, carriers no longer have siege/poke potential so tempest needs to step up to fulfill that role better than it did so far. Personally I would have preferred a faster attack animation rather than the crazy speed boost, but maybe now the new skytoss comp will be tempest/voidray/colossus instead of carrier/archon/templar. Seems interesting.
The new tempest has very similar stats to the void ray, so the dev team wants tempests to be used in counter part with void rays. Problem is that tempests worse now than they were before, and people rarely used them before.
Tempests are now 50 minerals and 25 gas cheaper, which at the point that you'd need them, does pretty much nothing. Going from 6 to 5 supply really only means they're nominally less supply inefficient than they were before.
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im looking forward to the next 20 balance revamps (we gotta keep things interesting if the game doesnt)
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i like the changes to Terran even though they are strengthening 2 air units.
On September 10 2018 09:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Neosteel Frame improvements are often requested by various Neosteel enthusiasts in the community
Best line in patch notes ever
i've been part of the Neosteel enthusiasts community since July 27th , 2010.
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On September 10 2018 07:13 Rodya wrote:
Warp gate change is stupid and I say that as a protoss player.
warp gate has always been stupid since they introduced it in beta and made it in every way better than gateways. should have made it a choice between both with pros and cons for each ie warp gates have longer cooldown than gateways
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Feels like big buff to terran, moderate changes to zerg, and protoss nerfed to oblivion.
Maybe I am wrong.
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I like the changes overall. Significantly less drastic as last year which is good, I imagine things won't be quite as unstable as they were post 4.0 initially.
Probably still need a couple more late game terran changes, and parasitic bomb still needs a look at IMO. As a Protoss player, I'm confused about the robo change, it's nice but completely unnecessary? Warpgate change is also unnecessary but I'll take it, will probably save my life in a couple games. Recall change is good but perhaps the cool down is still too short, even with the nerf. I'd go somewhere between the current one and the proposed one.
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Thank god they re not dropping this before Blizzcon. At least we can have a normal ending for the season
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Most of this sounds reasonable (they kinda did the sentry hallucination change I mentioned in the other thread! Still think it should be 50 energy though, so you can scout as soon as the sentry is made) though I'm curious how the changes to the carrier will affect PvZ. I guess the emphasis now will be on mixing in carriers with other air units with storm and archons as support rather than mostly just using carriers since losing all intercepters will now basically end the carriers being useful in the fight for up to 88 seconds and carriers can't burst damage down corruptors and hydras as well. Maybe mixing in colossus and void rays will be the thing to do. I'd need to see that colossus change in action to actually understand how it is different. As much as I don't like the recall change, I think it's fair. It was kinda BS that Protoss could kill a base and then immediately recall their entire army home to stop a counter-attack. Requiring a mothership to do big recalls makes sense.
I haven't done the math yet on how the damage will change attacking cyclones but I'm not sure if that cyclone change will be enough to actually slow down all the proxy cyclone shenanigans in TvP. I always thought the issue was that two of them could target down units faster than shield batteries could recharge shields, and with SCV support on auto-repair they can attack before the required defences to stop the attack can be built. It seemed more to me like the damage scaling was wrong for them. They're too strong for about a 3-5 minute period near the start of the game and then their damage output completely falls off and they become dead weight.
The Nydus change is good. Invincible Nydus worms were dumb. They made for bad games that would come down a split second where either the worm would die and Zerg would lose or 2-3 queens would get out and transfuse the worm, and Zerg would win.
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So how will this help mech or terran late game?
Tempest will be even more of a hard counter to BC with less cost and faster speed. Having less hitpoins does not matter much if you have 15 range.
Thors firing faster will be completely negated by
1. Thors now taking 7 instead of 6 damage from each interceptor.
2. Carriers now having more hit points.
3. Carriers being produced faster.
And Carriers will still have 14 range with leach.
TvP mech will be just as dead in this patch as it is currently. Every TvP game will in a proxy or an all-in as it is currently.
Apart from that how is cheaper Nydus worms a good idea? Zerg can just spam almost free Nydus worms at every base and the one you do not manage to kill in time will mean that you lost that base. Do you we really need to make abilities that completely ignore positioning cheaper?
Why do Blizzard always have to introduce and awful idea (Make Nydus worms almost free) when they do something right (remove invulnerability from Nydus worms).
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BRING BACK LOCK-ON CYCLONES
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On September 10 2018 11:20 DomeGetta wrote:
So a few things to consider for sure:
I dont see how any of this addresses late game Tvp.
Unless im missing something feedback still shits on BC?
Terran is dead presently when Toss rounds out their massive splash with tempests to shut down the liberators. Having less hitpoints is irrelevant if the range is the same and they are now faster? You cant get to them with your army without getting nuked.. you give ravens a redundant ability with ghosts to nuke shields..im not really following. Nerfing cyclone basically removes the proxy all in which im ok with but this is going to be an even more epic shitshow than we had pre stalker nerf.
I guess Maru will come up w some proxy all inns that dont involve cyclones lol.
And why are u changing disrupters?? At least now u have the potential to micro units into them to set them off..u want them to be even easier to spam now??
How bout we look at the main problem ??? Not a word about chrono????!
feedback has had little effect on bcs since they remved enrgy from bcs awhile back, bcs are bad and I dont think the change fixes that but the big reasons bcs suck is infrastructure cost is insane to make them in any reasonable number, 2: bcs are a unit you mass in a race that has trouble massing tech units and usually wants tech units to support there army not be there army, at least when playing bio. 3: armorys take along time to build cost alot, so it takes along time to get air upgrades unless your banking up as terran, 4: bcs struggle hard agianst zerg tech switches, its a huuuuge investment to swap into bcs but unlike carriers bcs dont have a good matchup vs there counters voidrays, currupters, and vikings all perform well vs them and are not that hard to get out compared to an army of bcs. 5: With the nerfs to ravens terran currently has the worst support caster for air deathballs, ravens are heavily outclassed by vipers and hts. 6, bcs do to many attacks with to low dmg, this makes them bad against most big late game units, yamoto helps this problem but it does not solve it.
bcs are just a bad unit letting them shoot while moving and fixing the attack delay does not make them good enough when ontop of it they get quite a few nerfs. frankly though im ok living in a world were bcs are a meme unit I just whis that carriers and broodlords (to a lesser extent) were also memes and the game was ballanced around capital ships being a meme unit..
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Loving the nydus change, but the hydra nerf...fuck!
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I don't understand.
They are nerfing Hydras and say hat they do that to open Zerg to other compositions, but in the same time they do nothing to make Mutas viable for example. Which other composition do they mean? We have nothing other than Hydras. Mutas are wrecked by one Thor, and Thor gets buffs. Protoss has problems with that only if not scouted... That's horrible change, especially that Hydras were weak in HP always.
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Overall I would say that the majority of changes sound kinda reasonable, but in reality I really hoped we were done with the bigger revamps once and for all with the one we had last year. Turns out that was just another PR lie from Blizzard.
While there are really good and interesting changes to be made, delivering them all at once without good testing beforehand could/will make the game unstable again for months, at least. More likely are additional tweaks needed.
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On September 10 2018 15:01 Zerg.Zilla wrote:
Loving the nydus change, but the hydra nerf...fuck!
It went from hydras buffs with combined upgrade to just +5 hp lol. Of course they won't undo the buffs they gave to protoss to deal with the used to be better hydras.
Same treatment for fungal, from instant and root, to projectile, doesn't root, not casted while burrow.
They nerf ultras because it was too good due to marauder nerf, but they finally undo marauder nerf, while keeping ultras nerf and keeping all the ghost buffs they added.
Blizzard loves to make zerg changes, and reverts them like they forget they changed them because there were weak, but finally keep all the nerfs they introduce to "balance the buff", resulting the unit is finally weaker or as weak than before they touch it...
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Took em forever on that nydus change
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Where are the Corruptor/Viking buffs to make up for the buffs to protoss air?
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On September 10 2018 13:29 Dumbledore wrote:
Feels like big buff to terran, moderate changes to zerg, and protoss nerfed to oblivion.
Maybe I am wrong.
Protoss get a reasonable buff to early game and a slight nerf to carriers which are worse against sworms of units(stormu!!!) but better against armored units. (also moar HP and shorter build time) And as a bonus - Colossus change is neat 
I don't see it as a nerf, but maybe I'm missing something
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Why not? Have to test it first, before I can have an option about this.
The only thing that actually gets an immediate dislike from me is this:
Burrow and Unburrow have been separated into two separate keys
Why? Was there any problem with the way it worked previously? I just hope I don't need to use an additional key to burrow/unburrow. Otherwise I have to change the key settings. (Note to myself: Don't forget.)
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On September 10 2018 17:07 HDRhineland wrote:Why not? Have to test it first, before I can have an option about this. The only thing that actually gets an immediate dislike from me is this: Why? Was there any problem with the way it worked previously? I just hope I don't need to use an additional key to burrow/unburrow. Otherwise I have to change the key settings. (Note to myself: Don't forget.)
Currently if you burrow some units and then you want them unburrow you have to select just the burrowed units otherwise the burrow has higher priority. Probably players want to not do burrow/unburrow with new units. I don't know, on my level I just hit the key twice, but I will probably like this more.
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EPT
