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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 18 2018 19:16 serendipitous wrote: Maybe gladepts but the rest could be defended with hydras assuming they were cheaper weaker tier 1 tech as a zerg player i'm not totally against the idea of tier 1 hydras, but i don't think you should underestimate the impact of giving the zerg race a tier 1 unit that shoots up | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On July 18 2018 18:39 hiroshOne wrote: Funny how most of the posts are from terrans and protosses... Just go redesign your own races, keep away from Zerg. I bet u all would delete queens from the game, so u could easy win with every ballshit from your arsenal. So like Protoss with the Mothership Core resulting in a tier 5 player beating a two time world champion. Zerg players were more than ok with that and cried about the dropperlord nerf. User was warned for this post. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 18 2018 22:05 Boggyb wrote: So like Protoss with the Mothership Core resulting in a tier 5 player beating a two time world champion. Zerg players were more than ok with that and cried about the dropperlord nerf. i don't remember zergs crying about the dropperlord nerf. as a zerg i was in favor of it. other zergs i saw talking about it also agreed it was strong and the nerf was OK. any time there's a nerf at least one person will whine, but zergs weren't really complaining about that one. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
On July 18 2018 11:38 avilo wrote: Queens don't need a re-design, they need a -1 range nerf aka a revert on the old buff they were given that was a bandaid fix to the fact liberators used to be incredibly OP. Why are people suddenly wanting to re-design things in the game that already work perfectly fine. Queen design/Zerg design is perfectly fine. What's not fine is building 10+ queens early game vs Terran let's a Zerg player be invincible to every possible attack and build that exists in the game. That is not fine, or balanced. I think creep tumors could be adjusted, getting free vision is too strong. If you have high apm/mechanics, you are getting something entirely for free that is simply an advantage over the other races. If Terran players had something like creep spread that we could simply spend extra APM on and get free vision...they would all love to do that too. So yes, people could recommend balance tweaks to queens, but do people really think queens themselves are designed poorly? They seem pretty well designed to me, just balanced poorly. Terrans have Sensor Tower.... that's basically free vision without having to spend any apm besides building the thing. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On July 18 2018 22:05 Boggyb wrote: User was warned for this post. Mods are all kind of dumb if they think that noting the ridiculous of something that happened 6 months ago is balance whining. Can I report people who say bad things about the broodlord infestor era? That's "balance whining". | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 19 2018 01:07 Boggyb wrote: Mods are all kind of dumb if they think that noting the ridiculous of something that happened 6 months ago is balance whining. Can I report people who say bad things about the broodlord infestor era? That's "balance whining". If you have a problem with moderation, take it to website feedback please. Thanks! | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
Give Zerg more micro potential for units. That will send the APM somewhere more fun to watch and more to play, and mitigate any loss of the Queen's strength defensively. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 19 2018 01:34 BronzeKnee wrote: I think the Queen is a massive game design problem. It acts as a useless and mindless APM sink, and it's overwhelming strength defensively (much like the MSC) destroys a lot of chances for early action and pushes. Give Zerg more micro potential for units. That will send the APM somewhere more fun to watch and more to play, and mitigate any loss of the Queen's strength defensively. "overwhelming strength defensively" has to be a statement by someone who has never microed a queen. they have normal, appropriate strength defensively. if queens weren't as strong as they are on AA defense then 2-1-1 would be autowin for terran | ||
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Snakestyle1
43 Posts
On July 19 2018 01:34 BronzeKnee wrote: I think the Queen is a massive game design problem. It acts as a useless and mindless APM sink, and it's overwhelming strength defensively (much like the MSC) destroys a lot of chances for early action and pushes. Give Zerg more micro potential for units. That will send the APM somewhere more fun to watch and more to play, and mitigate any loss of the Queen's strength defensively. Meanwhile, zerg is the race that gets killed the most in the early game. Its the race that gets harassed the most in the early game. Its also the race that gets cheesed the most in the early and very early game. How does it destroy any chance for early action and pushes? A terran that opens reaper into hellion/banshee while switching to cyclone if roaches are coming is 100% invincible against any early zerg aggression, always ending up ahead. Name any aggression zerg can do early versus a terran that opens cyclone banshee. None. So if queens are too strong defensively and negates any early game aggression possibilities, explain why they are the most harassed race in the early game. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On July 18 2018 08:44 404AlphaSquad wrote: yes! Wasn’t in the case that creep didn’t provide a speed boost in Starbow? imo, the 30% speed boost is kinda broken Queens have always had the following problems: anti scouting with ranged attack, free defensive potential for a macro unit, early-game spellcaster, general problems with larva and macro.. I think Starbow had a mechanic where queens could attack, but it costs energy, which is a solution to most of the listed problems. But I forgot all about my past life of playing Starbow.  | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On July 19 2018 04:02 Grumbels wrote: Wasn’t in the case that creep didn’t provide a speed boost in Starbow? imo, the 30% speed boost is kinda broken Queens have always had the following problems: anti scouting with ranged attack, free defensive potential for a macro unit, early-game spellcaster, general problems with larva and macro.. I think Starbow had a mechanic where queens could attack, but it costs energy, which is a solution to most of the listed problems. But I forgot all about my past life of playing Starbow. It's so broken than... Zerg can't win a fight offcreep vs T if they don't have a huge supply lead, with T3 units. Hey what about Terran players stop making threads every day where they ask again and again for massive nerfs for others races, or massive buffs for Terran. That will be the best redesign SC2 needs. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
I believe we need a change that makes mass queens worse, for example prevent transfuse from working on queens. That way they can support an army but they can't be the army. If needed change the transfuse spell but as they are now quuens are too good massed | ||
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the_last_terran1
48 Posts
I m only talking about ZvT, At the start of SC2, on WoL, prevent the creep to spread was not a condition to victory, in this terms it was not so important. Now I m looking at the future of replacement for the terran scene and i do care to find how you could refresh the ZvT game. Why ? Cause you can t stop the creep if you ren t Korean. When i see there s no replacement of pro europeans terran except Clem who is the only one to bring to PRO level a new strategy (but failed) with building a siege line of bunkers (with turrets AA + sensor towers) during THE MID GAME in front the creep, I mean, something has to be done... During HotS, everybody talked about different Build Order, but the 12 workers decision has killed a lot of this little strategies. So I hope something should be done in favor of "the bunker siege line style" if this vision is shared by players and viewers. Don t you enjoy this kind of strategy ? Unfortunetly, i hadn t the link of the game for now.... Last year, I was finally really excited to know if his new strategy (and such a different strategy!!!) could disturb the Z but the fu*** creep keep going to spread everywhere and Clem couldn t hold the position cause Banelings do 80 point damage to bunkers... Honestly, i don t think changing the damage is a good option, also changing the hit points of the bunker fell wired. That s why i m thinking to modify "Hi-Sec Auto Tracking" adding a +1 bonus range to marines and marauders inside the bunker. Then you can remove "Neosteel Frame" (cause nobody do it) and add a new fast ability to transform each bunker adding 2 supply army in the cargo space. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On July 19 2018 04:11 Tyrhanius wrote: It's so broken than... Zerg can't win a fight offcreep vs T if they don't have a huge supply lead, with T3 units. Hey what about Terran players stop making threads every day where they ask again and again for massive nerfs for others races, or massive buffs for Terran. That will be the best redesign SC2 needs. its a redesign, ofc some units would be buffed in compensation | ||
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Haighstrom
United Kingdom215 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On July 19 2018 05:19 Grumbels wrote: its a redesign, ofc some units would be buffed in compensation You are aware that means every zerg ground units should be buffed if the creep boost disappears ? Why, because you don't like creep ? No way you can manage to balance that, there is too many variables changing at the same time. Creep is actually a unique mecanism, it's the only RTS you have that, and it's the identity of the zerg race. So no, we don't want to touch creep, it's fine. If you want to play starbow, play starbow. I find Zerg race is really bad designed on starbow, so i don't play it. Don't want to be forced to play it. If starbow was so nice, everyone would be playing it instead of SC2, it's not the case. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16089 Posts
On July 18 2018 22:33 vult wrote: Terrans have Sensor Tower.... that's basically free vision without having to spend any apm besides building the thing. "Free" "Cough" 150/100 "cough" | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16089 Posts
On July 19 2018 03:01 Snakestyle1 wrote: Meanwhile, zerg is the race that gets killed the most in the early game. Its the race that gets harassed the most in the early game. Its also the race that gets cheesed the most in the early and very early game. How does it destroy any chance for early action and pushes? A terran that opens reaper into hellion/banshee while switching to cyclone if roaches are coming is 100% invincible against any early zerg aggression, always ending up ahead. Name any aggression zerg can do early versus a terran that opens cyclone banshee. None. So if queens are too strong defensively and negates any early game aggression possibilities, explain why they are the most harassed race in the early game. Nydus or Queen Ravager allins regularly destroy terrans going hellion/banshee | ||
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