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Dopella
3 Posts
1. Queens are now an upgrade of sorts, now sitting inside the hatchery; hatchery gains an attack(maybe extend the range to compensate), inject and transfuse ability. Also to spawn creep tumors, of course. 2. New building: Lesser Spire, 100/100, pre-lair, allows morphing of Scourges from zerglings. But I have to admit, that's not entirely about queens but also about zerg AA being complete arse. | ||
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Jazzbear86
Germany3 Posts
Obviously this would screw up the early game timings a lot... | ||
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Creager
Germany1966 Posts
On July 20 2018 19:25 Jazzbear86 wrote: Since the biggest concern seems to be zerg not having to spend lava on early defence why not make the Queen sqawn from lava. Obviously this would screw up the early game timings a lot... Well, I have never really thought of that, but I actually like this idea a lot! | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
If queens came from larvae, Zerg would be down 2 drones the time they hit 30 supply in every matchup. More if they needed to defend something. Early game is much more change-sensitive than later on. If queens just had their AA range reduced, oracle and speedivac pressure would become insane. Zerg has NO other mobile AA before lair and an extra structure, and both other races have strong early aggression that flies. Making queens light would just make hellbat pushes stupidly disproportionately difficult to hold. For minimal investment Terran could force a bunch of roaches or early gas mining (each geyser mining costs a drone, and 3 mineral drones, on a race with already nerfed larva mechanic). If you want to just give queens a flat nerf, have a reasonable idea of how you are going to compensate for the change. Not "Lol nice nerf Zerg pls". | ||
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Jazzbear86
Germany3 Posts
On July 20 2018 20:22 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Almost every single idea here is just a flat nerf. And most of them would make "Zerg will never win a GSL" 100% guaranteed. So much of this is T and P players who have seen the times Queens have stopped themselves / favourite player from winning with some early pressure or whatever making the smallest change that would flip that situation on its head. If queens came from larvae, Zerg would be down 2 drones the time they hit 30 supply in every matchup. More if they needed to defend something. Early game is much more change-sensitive than later on. If queens just had their AA range reduced, oracle and speedivac pressure would become insane. Zerg has NO other mobile AA before lair and an extra structure, and both other races have strong early aggression that flies. Making queens light would just make hellbat pushes stupidly disproportionately difficult to hold. For minimal investment Terran could force a bunch of roaches or early gas mining (each geyser mining costs a drone, and 3 mineral drones, on a race with already nerfed larva mechanic). If you want to just give queens a flat nerf, have a reasonable idea of how you are going to compensate for the change. Not "Lol nice nerf Zerg pls". Yeah you're right, it would obviously be a nerf if queen's spawned from larvae without a compensation. I guess most people here are just brainstorming on changes to the queen. These are nerfs because they think the queen is too strong. Other parts of the game would have to compensate such a queen nerf. (FYI: I don't really mind the queen we have at the moment. I just thought of this after reading the discussion. Plus I mostly play zerg or random so no real anti-zerg bias here.) There are ways to compensate for this nerf. Just on top of my head: new hatcheries could have three larvae instead of one. Now nothing really changes for a hatch first opener and the first two queens. Pool first builds would one have one less larva before the second base finishes but would get an additional larva after that, so it's kind of evening out in the end, I think. | ||
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Jazzbear86
Germany3 Posts
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
On July 20 2018 19:25 Jazzbear86 wrote: Since the biggest concern seems to be zerg not having to spend larva on early defence, why not make the Queen spawn from larvae. Obviously this would screw up the early game timings a lot... I support this idea. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
I could see a world were to compensate the Zerg for the loss of queens you gave them a nerfed version of the hydra at tier 1 and alllooooot more larva generation, significantly more than what zerg get from queens now because holding allins without queens would mean zerg would have to walk the units vs drones tight rope a lot more carefully making there early game way to punishing unless they had more larva overall to work with. But this kind of change would make zerg allins crazzzy good imagine evrey zerg Allin that we have now but hitting 30 seconds earlier and with 2-3 more roaches or 4-6 more zerglings and you'd see my point. No I like the way Zerg works overall as is. Mabey a tweek here or there but not a rework. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
My ideas: - Queen should morph from larvae, same as every other zerg unit - Queen now has the ability to birth a larva (similar to how it now can drop a creep tumour, off creep it will die instantly) (It can no longer inject larvae) - Queen's abilities are now cooldown-based instead of mana-based. - Queen requires a queen's nest (tier 1 building that costs 100 minerals for example) - Queen can now poop creep - Queen's nest has a queen speed upgrade for off-creep - Hatcheries now have the ability to spawn a single creep tumour (or possibly cooldown based). - Creep tumour can be evolved into a mini hatchery for 150 minerals that will spawn larvae (similar production to what a single queen would give) | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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kOrc
22 Posts
Queen + Transfuse does an extra 50hp heal over 1 second. heal/time does not stack + 50 energy ability to gain +3 attack range+damage for air+ground for 10 seconds - Cost changed from 150/0 to 125/25 - Remove spawn creep tumor, inject larva - Set range to 5 for both ground and air - Increase size by 10% (easier to block ramps) Hatchery + spawn creep tumor (target anywhere near edge of natural hatch creep) + spawn additional larva (works same as self being injected by a queen) * has 100 total energy, starts with 50, like a nexus, abilities cost 25 each Creep tumor + "autospread" toggle-able (shared across all tumors): active tumors spawn a new tumor when ready in the direction that is furthest from existing tumors + towards enemy spawn + increase hp (maybe +10?) or armor - no longer burrowed/cloaked Reasoning This returns hatcheries to being central to zerg macro identity. Queens are now a specialty defensive unit and offensive support unit for late game. Early game defense is slightly stronger with fewer queens, but you can mass them if you want and do interesting aggressive plays with the new ability. Gas cost means you have to choose between massing queens or teching up/building better units, as they aren't necessary for macro anymore. Creep spread will be easier and remove the unskilled drain on APM, and still serve the purpose of map control and vision/scouting. There will be higher average creep spread across all skill levels, but will be balanced out by no longer requiring detection to clear. However, to continue to buy similar amount of time, the survival of a tumor should be slightly increased. | ||
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