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On May 19 2007 02:17 joydivision wrote: Hmm... no archons, no dark archons, no dark templars no dragoons, no reavers, no corsairs, no carriers, no arbiters, no medics anda apparently no firebats?
Its a new game
WTF
Uhh what? They didn't show those units in the 5-minute video so you think they're not in the game? Grow a brain.
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IT LOOKS GOOD YES *ORGASM* <3
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From the ign article and screenshots I thought this was going to be pretty bad, but when you see the in game videos it really looks promising. I really didn't like the amount of zerglings to kill like 3 zealots though and it seems the game is focused around really hard counters like the colossus >> ling, new goon >> tanks, which I think is a bad thing.
I think Blizzard is also trying to balance HP with the number of controllable units, you can tell the HP's are upped but that might not be such a bad thing considering the amount of units that seem to be able to fit in one control group.
As for the wierd cliff hopping stuff, that is just really weird, I can see how it would increase multitasking but it's a bit strange to have any unit be able to just hop into your base and hop out at a whim.
P.S. dropships land to unload now, wait, no more gosu boxer dropship micro! I'm sure HE will find a way.
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This is what is wrong with TL sometimes. People are close minded when it comes to RTS. Whether BW is the best RTS ever to be is not even a debate. Apparently, it's fact.
Even I think that BW is the best RTS game so far. There is a reason that it is the lead game in the progaming scene. But to think that nobody can top it is depressing and unreasonably pessimistic.
BW has flaws. Everyone knows that. It'll be replaced as the king of competitive RTS sooner or later.
Also, WC3 was a great game. You guys keep talking about it in such a condescending tone which reminds me of the people who whined about how they would own such and such people (whom they lost to) in BW. They required different sets of skill. BW just happens to be more audience friendly. That is all.
I guess my point is that we still have about a year to see the final thing so stop bitching and be grateful.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm gonna miss starcraft 1 if it dies sooooo much tho
I kinda wish they could both live on in full glory. I'm pretty sure starcraft 2 will be a very much worthy successor tho, the ingame stuff looks fantastic.
Yes I'm repeating myself but I'm happy !
And yea, stop being pessimistic, start being optimistic!
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What will be revolutionary is that this will be the first computer game made specifically with professional play in mind.
I think the biggest negative aspect of SC2 will be its effect on the SC1 pro-gaming scene about a year before release. The teams won't have any new blood coming in because there's no point training so hard if the sport you're training for is going to be superceded.
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On May 19 2007 02:33 mahnini wrote: [...] it seems the game is focused around really hard counters like the colossus >> ling, new goon >> tanks, which I think is a bad thing. [/b]
Why? That's a good thing in my opinion. Example on current Starcraft, PvT: Terran moves out with a big force of vults + tanks, you have no carriers yet, what do you do? Use MASSES of your basic units (zealots + goons). Is that exactly cool or tactical? No, it's quite dumb actually. Protoss doesn't have a good counter vs. Terran in mid game, so you have to compensate for this lack by massing basic (cheap) units. With SC2, it looks like there will really be a good counter for everything and so the fights will be less "mass A vs. mass B", and depend more on your micro, timing and smart unit choice. I think it's a good thing in every aspect.
As for the wierd cliff hopping stuff, that is just really weird, I can see how it would increase multitasking but it's a bit strange to have any unit be able to just hop into your base and hop out at a whim.
Only a few units can do that, but it's true that it's likely to be imbalanced. Terran reapers, Protoss stalkers or the Zerg nydus worm (was that how it's called?) unloading a shitload of lings in your base and killing a few crucial buildings is probably gonna suck unless there's a good way to scout this early.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Yeah, you guys are all pretending to be RTS masterminds. Seriously, wait till it comes out and wait for the Boxers of the world to revolutionize the strategies of the game and bring it to new levels. The game looks fast paced with tons of hard counters, making micro hard but effective if used right. It also makes for more exciting watching...
And of course it was going to be 3D. But that doesnt' mean it will be worse than 2D. You guys are like the old conservative who refuse to acknowledge anything new and think the old is always better, no matter how thought out the new may be.
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First of all, way to go TL.net for judging a game before you've even gotten the chance to play it. Second, stop being stuck in the past. Who cares if it's an entirely new game, it's gonna rock like every other one of their games and it'll be a blast to play. I for one have high hopes, and to already count it out is just retarded.
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I can't wait for this game, but for now it looks to me as an another crappy C&C stuff. The power of SC is the fact that it is totally different from C&C shit.
Plus there are already too many new units.
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but explain something to me Klogon. Where's the skill in taking a bunch of immortals and wiping out 347284 sieged tanks by attack moving on them? Of course it'll be more complicated than that because no terran would mass only siege tanks anymore, my point is that sometimes, hard counters make it easier to micro. the counter is so strong, it'll win regardless of each player's micro.
lol, just realized how you could take 1 immortal (even w/o obs following) and simply have it walk around everywhere to clear mines. It could clear any amount of mines np.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 19 2007 02:56 Brutalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2007 02:33 mahnini wrote: [...] it seems the game is focused around really hard counters like the colossus >> ling, new goon >> tanks, which I think is a bad thing. Why? That's a good thing in my opinion. Example on current Starcraft, PvT: Terran moves out with a big force of vults + tanks, you have no carriers yet, what do you do? Use MASSES of your basic units (zealots + goons). Is that exactly cool or tactical? No, it's quite dumb actually. Protoss doesn't have a good counter vs. Terran in mid game, so you have to compensate for this lack by massing basic (cheap) units. With SC2, it looks like there will really be a good counter for everything and so the fights will be less "mass A vs. mass B", and depend more on your micro, timing and smart unit choice. I think it's a good thing in every aspect. Show nested quote +As for the wierd cliff hopping stuff, that is just really weird, I can see how it would increase multitasking but it's a bit strange to have any unit be able to just hop into your base and hop out at a whim. Only a few units can do that, but it's true that it's likely to be imbalanced. Terran reapers, Protoss stalkers or the Zerg nydus worm (was that how it's called?) unloading a shitload of lings in your base and killing a few crucial buildings is probably gonna suck unless there's a good way to scout this early. [/b] Uh, zealots counter tanks, goons counter vultures.
IMO what he describes in SC2 is exactly how it already is in SC1.
Yeah so a colosssus >>>>>>>>>> lings, to me this was no different than what happens if you stick 12 zealots and 2 archons up against 30 zerglings - the zerglings get raped (provided they stand the way they did - archons behind the zealots).
Looks good imo.
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Well, they did not tell us what Terrans have up their sleve. Maybe earlier EMP?:O
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Sweden33719 Posts
Also who cares if it's 3D as long as you can set the camera to top-to-bottom view (which you can from the looks of things and which you've been able to do in every 3D rts of any worth).
It's no different at all basically.. just means you can take a bunch of cool screenshots of battles while obsing/repping
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hehe dragoons are lost.. the two new dragoon replacers are.. the dt-goon which can teleport, and the big -unit counter goon !!! keke1
I hope stimpack won't be lost.. don't know.. it added a lot for the atmosphere of the game imo
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On May 19 2007 03:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2007 02:56 Brutalisk wrote:On May 19 2007 02:33 mahnini wrote: [...] it seems the game is focused around really hard counters like the colossus >> ling, new goon >> tanks, which I think is a bad thing. Why? That's a good thing in my opinion. Example on current Starcraft, PvT: Terran moves out with a big force of vults + tanks, you have no carriers yet, what do you do? Use MASSES of your basic units (zealots + goons). Is that exactly cool or tactical? No, it's quite dumb actually. Protoss doesn't have a good counter vs. Terran in mid game, so you have to compensate for this lack by massing basic (cheap) units. With SC2, it looks like there will really be a good counter for everything and so the fights will be less "mass A vs. mass B", and depend more on your micro, timing and smart unit choice. I think it's a good thing in every aspect. As for the wierd cliff hopping stuff, that is just really weird, I can see how it would increase multitasking but it's a bit strange to have any unit be able to just hop into your base and hop out at a whim. Only a few units can do that, but it's true that it's likely to be imbalanced. Terran reapers, Protoss stalkers or the Zerg nydus worm (was that how it's called?) unloading a shitload of lings in your base and killing a few crucial buildings is probably gonna suck unless there's a good way to scout this early. Uh, zealots counter tanks, goons counter vultures. IMO what he describes in SC2 is exactly how it already is in SC1. Yeah so a colosssus >>>>>>>>>> lings, to me this was no different than what happens if you stick 12 zealots and 2 archons up against 30 zerglings - the zerglings get raped (provided they stand the way they did - archons behind the zealots). Looks good imo. [/b] That's true. I'm not trying to look negatively on the game, it looks really great, just throwing out some possibly constructive thoughts.
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oh and I hope there will be different types of mines.. :D
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MURICA15980 Posts
On May 19 2007 03:10 EmS.Radagast wrote: but explain something to me Klogon. Where's the skill in taking a bunch of immortals and wiping out 347284 sieged tanks by attack moving on them? Of course it'll be more complicated than that because no terran would mass only siege tanks anymore, my point is that sometimes, hard counters make it easier to micro. the counter is so strong, it'll win regardless of each player's micro.
Your last sentence is probably exactly what people might think of current BroodWar if it was released today. Lurker > marine. Corsair > mutalisk. Etc. Trust me, we dont know how it will play out until it is played and tested at the highest level. But when a game is fast paced, well balanced, and has the general "feel" of SC1, I can't help but think it has massive potential to be a great, great game.
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jesus. a lot of the complaining that people did about warcraft 3 was that it had a lot of soft counters rather than starcraft's hard counters. now people are bitching that starcraft 2 would have too hard of counters?
think about it: firebats are extremely hard counters to zerglings, but it's not like zerglings can't wipe out firebats with proper flanking. the ingame vids show 6 immortals taking out 8 tanks, but it doesns't mean that 6 immortals can take out 20 tanks. you have no idea how hard these counters are, so far we just know that there are planned counters.
all these people complaining about the 3d graphics need to chill out. 3d does not necessarily mean overwhelmingly flashy, nor does it mean that the units have to be slow. if you watch the gameplay video, all the units respond very well, and not slowly like in warcraft.
we barely know anything about the game yet. be patient, and time will tell whether starcraft 2 turns out to be great or not.
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I miss the DarkTemplars already the new guys are no 1 Hit invisible eco killers
the new goons just have to prove their power we will see
Zerglings are already one of the most powerful units... now image what happens if there will roll 50 Zerglingbombs into your base O.o
The portable Pylon sounds great but we will see if it will fit into the balance
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