28 players survived two days of qualifiers to earn spots in the second GSL Code S Season of 2018. The four seeded semifinalists from the current season—Stats, Maru, Dark, and soO—will join the qualified players to form the complete, 32-player roster for Code S Season 2. The list of players advancing through qualifiers is as follows:
herO was the most notable player who failed to qualify for Code S, ceding his spot to long inactive Protoss pro eMotion who defeated him in two crucial BO3 series. Additionally, a slew of WCS Circuit players earned their spots in Korea's most prestigious tournament, including Scarlett, SortOf, Zanster, Elazer, and TRUE. Returned veterans MMA and PartinG were unsuccessful in their attempts to regain Code S status after lengthy hiatuses.
GSL Code S Season 2 will be held between April 18th and June 24th with 170,000,000 Korean Won (approximately $160,000 USD) in total prize money on the line. The champion will earn a direct seed to the 2018 WCS Global Finals, while all other players will earn WCS qualification points based on their final placements.
Also why all foreigner that tries GSL qualifiers are Zerg.
SpeCial isn't zerg.
Many of the best foreigners has also been zerg for quite a while. If the best players have a go at GSL, it's only natural zerg is over represented.
Zanster, SortOf, and NoRegreT aren't top players though, and they aren't better than SpeCiaL, Kelazhur, DnS. Foreign zergs have gotten a bit luckier than other foreigners over the past few qualifiers I feel (though there were more foreign zergs participating than foreign terrans/protosses).
Also why all foreigner that tries GSL qualifiers are Zerg.
SpeCial isn't zerg.
Many of the best foreigners has also been zerg for quite a while. If the best players have a go at GSL, it's only natural zerg is over represented.
But honestly I doubt that Zanster and SortOf are considered to be some of the best foreigners either...
I guess for the most part (for the most of the good foreigners - like Showtime, Neeb, uThermal, maybe Snute - it's just not worth it to take a trip to Korea and probably be defeatet in the RO32
I mean it is 2,800$ but you'd have to stay for a while, so yeah... would be a lot of effort for almost nothing in the end
Also why all foreigner that tries GSL qualifiers are Zerg.
SpeCial isn't zerg.
Many of the best foreigners has also been zerg for quite a while. If the best players have a go at GSL, it's only natural zerg is over represented.
Zanster, SortOf, and NoRegreT aren't top players though, and they aren't better than SpeCiaL, Kelazhur, DnS. Foreign zergs have gotten a bit luckier than other foreigners over the past few qualifiers I feel (though there were more foreign zergs participating than foreign terrans/protosses).
Kelazhur got closer to qualifying than Noregret by directly taking him out, what are you even talking about?
On March 28 2018 19:19 JAG.war wrote: How come some players had two chances to quality, and herO only had one?
Anyway, kind of a lame way to get eliminated: face up against the same person twice and that's it? Had the opponent been an amazing player that would be even more unfair. Alas, no system is perfect....
What do you mean? He had just as many chances as everyone else.
He played yesterday and lost to Losira and Dear. He played today and lost to eMotion twice.
Edit: Oh I see it has been cleared up while I typed this comment .
On March 28 2018 19:21 djack0666 wrote: Never even heard of eMotion.. wtf
eMotion has been around for a while. He played regularly for Samsung in Proleague starting in 2014. This is however his first time qualifying for a GSL.
Poor players like ragnarok, hurricane, jjakji, creator and others who have to deal with players who don't even speak their language stealing their tournament money
Also why all foreigner that tries GSL qualifiers are Zerg.
SpeCial isn't zerg.
Many of the best foreigners has also been zerg for quite a while. If the best players have a go at GSL, it's only natural zerg is over represented.
I'd say it's the easiest to get to a high level with at that level of play. It's why there are so few good terran foreigners. That's not a balance whine, that's just the way the races are designes
On March 28 2018 21:50 The_Red_Viper wrote: Poor players like ragnarok, hurricane, jjakji, creator and others who have to deal with players who don't even speak their language stealing their tournament money
I feel like the player pool is getting shaken up at the moment. Some of these results feel a bit surprising, and I like that. It's a shame there isn't something like Code A anymore... I mostly wish that the talent that's just a cut below Code S could be fostered a little more.
But yeah, Zanister and SortOf both in Code S? I feel like there were eras where this would simply not have happened without some kind of seeding.
On an unrelated note: no PartinG?! Damn it all to hell! PartinG and MMA gotta step it up. What the hell are they doing not in Code S?
We need Code A back, it's heartbreaking to see that many players will have no offline event to play in for such a long time again.
Legion locking going both ways would also be more fair imo, but I guess Afreeca would not want that. Some foreigners definitely make Code S a bit more exciting for the fans.
Big congrats to Zanster btw. He looked so good against Neeb in WCS. I really love his multitasking heavy, aggressive style and he uses cracklings so well.
On March 28 2018 21:50 The_Red_Viper wrote: Poor players like ragnarok, hurricane, jjakji, creator and others who have to deal with players who don't even speak their language stealing their tournament money
jjakji lost vs TRUE twice and vs solar/Hurricane yesterday.
On March 28 2018 21:50 The_Red_Viper wrote: Poor players like ragnarok, hurricane, jjakji, creator and others who have to deal with players who don't even speak their language stealing their tournament money
jjakji lost vs TRUE twice and vs solar/Hurricane yesterday.
Well i count TRUE as a "foreigner" here even though he obviously doesn't qualify for the descriptor of not speaking the same language :D I am also not fully serious though the end result is definitely that some lower lvl koreans might have to retire due to not getting the code s money.
Great to see ByuL qualifying again. Was starting to worry for his career. And Billowy has now qualified quite a few times, maybe he'll finally make it through.
Don't mind that Scarlett (who has proven her worth in Korea by now) and Elazer qualify, but it seems absolutely ridiculous to have Zanster and SortOf in this tournament. It really sucks for the mid-tier Koreans.
Korean Starcraft badly needs a second-tier league. Come on Blizzard, sponsor the return of Code A!
On March 28 2018 22:44 MockHamill wrote: It is great that many westerners got into Code S.
I think that within a year the best player will no longer be a Korean.
I suppose if this is the last year of GSL, we could see all of the Koreans retire and this come to pass.
Since Blizzard pays for GSL, I don't see how it would ever go away until sc2 and WCS overall are completely done. And that won't happen until Blizzard releases WC4 or SC3, which again won't happen for quite few years.
On March 28 2018 22:44 MockHamill wrote: It is great that many westerners got into Code S.
I think that within a year the best player will no longer be a Korean.
The only way this happens is if all the current top koreans won't play the game anymore in a year.
To me all the foreigners making code s just means that Code S sadly isn't what it used to be. A few years ago ro32 was kinda competitive, now code s starts at ro16. And i don't even say that to bash the likes of elazer or scarlett, they are good players but we lost so many korean pros over the years, it's always an unhappy moment when you think about it. With that being said though, obviously looking forward to more gsl action.
On March 28 2018 23:26 bObA wrote: Really sad for MMA... Do not understand how herO managed not to qualify for GSL. He is one of the most consistent protoss ever...
Glad to see TRUE coming back in GSL ! He did well in the latest qualifiers and I hope he'll have a good run in Code S. I'll cheer for him and Rogue, the two sexiest zergs on Earth !
On March 29 2018 00:29 BaneRiders wrote: Wow, congrats to SortOf, Zanster and Elazer for joining Scarlett. I hope this inspires more foreigners to give it a try in the future!
With the region lock for the Circuit tournaments and the GSL being an open-to-all tournament, it feels like the Korean scene is consistently receiving the shorter end of the stick. I understand the notion of the GSL being the most competitive tournament, but I'm starting to warm up more and more to the idea of making the GSL a tourament open only to Koreans if that means Korean rookies have a better chance at entering a tournament. That and Parting, MMA, herO, TY, and etc being knocked out really doesn't help with my thoughts
On March 29 2018 01:35 Mahanaim wrote: With the region lock for the Circuit tournaments and the GSL being an open-to-all tournament, it feels like the Korean scene is consistently receiving the shorter end of the stick. I understand the notion of the GSL being the most competitive tournament, but I'm starting to warm up more and more to the idea of making the GSL a tourament open only to Koreans if that means Korean rookies have a better chance at entering a tournament. That and Parting, MMA, herO, TY, and etc being knocked out really doesn't help with my thoughts
On March 29 2018 01:35 Mahanaim wrote: With the region lock for the Circuit tournaments and the GSL being an open-to-all tournament, it feels like the Korean scene is consistently receiving the shorter end of the stick. I understand the notion of the GSL being the most competitive tournament, but I'm starting to warm up more and more to the idea of making the GSL a tourament open only to Koreans if that means Korean rookies have a better chance at entering a tournament. That and Parting, MMA, herO, TY, and etc being knocked out really doesn't help with my thoughts
I think you should make GSL and WCS mutually exclusive, so if foreigner decide to try the qualifier for the GSL they can't play in WCS just like the koreans.
Code A really would be great. Foreigners getting into Code S would be a much higher accomplishment and the scene would get more competetive again Perhaps next year GSL vs the World (96k $ prizemoney) could be cancelled. 32k $ prizemoney per season would be enough. 32 players in 8-player round robin groups, top 3 of each group (or top 12 if antother format) advances to code S. 25th-32nd of code S goes down to code A, 17th-24th of Code S has to fight in relegation matches - top 4 stays in code S, the rest goes to code A of next season. Only those 4 players are seeded into next code A - the other 28 spots have to be filled via qualifiers. Even the costs of the event shouldn't be higher for such a code A. You'd need 4 days (like GSL vs World), perhaps one additional day for relegation matches
Code A really would be great. Foreigners getting into Code S would be a much higher accomplishment and the scene would get more competetive again Perhaps next year GSL vs the World (96k $ prizemoney) could be cancelled. 32k $ prizemoney per season would be enough. 32 players in 8-player round robin groups, top 3 of each group (or top 12 if antother format) advances to code S. 25th-32nd of code S goes down to code A, 17th-24th of Code S has to fight in relegation matches - top 4 stays in code S, the rest goes to code A of next season. Only those 4 players are seeded into next code A - the other 28 spots have to be filled via qualifiers. Even the costs of the event shouldn't be higher for such a code A. You'd need 4 days (like GSL vs World), perhaps one additional day for relegation matches
It would be even better to move Code S and Code A for that matter to Europe. We will see how good Koreans will be in 2-3 years vs foreigners.
On March 29 2018 02:27 10dla wrote: Why is it cool that foreigner take gsl spots off struggling koreans?
What the hell is wrong with all of you, whats not cool with foreigners winning GSL code S spots?
You all act as if the spots where won in a raffle, Sortof got first spot in his bracket defeating unknown korean, Creator and eMotion. Elazer got his spot defeating PartinG and Hurricane. Zanster went through Salvation and Ragnarok. Scarlett went through TY and Bunny to take first spot.
All of the above are high level korean pros (even though PartinGs form is unknown), its not like they got through based on bracket luck. Almost no foreigner faced other foreigners, they took their spots fair and square and that is really cool to see.
I hate the WCS system where koreans are locked into korea but don't blame that on the foreigners that are kicking ass.
Its quite simple really, the best players should qualify, I believe that was the spirit of GSL and I also believed that was the reason you korean pro fans loved it so much. Half the fanbase cried that it was unfair when koreans went abroad and stole the money from the foreigner pros, the other half argued its fair the best players should go to the tournaments and earn the money. These korean pro fans that wanted them to be able to go any tournament is now crying that its unfair that foreigners are allowed to go to korea and win money if they are better than the koreans? Its like a bad tv show, the ultimate hypocrites.
On March 29 2018 02:27 10dla wrote: Why is it cool that foreigner take gsl spots off struggling koreans?
What the hell is wrong with all of you, whats not cool with foreigners winning GSL code S spots?
You all act as if the spots where won in a raffle, Sortof got first spot in his bracket defeating unknown korean, Creator and eMotion. Elazer got his spot defeating PartinG and Hurricane. Zanster went through Salvation and Ragnarok. Scarlett went through TY and Bunny to take first spot.
All of the above are high level korean pros (even though PartinGs form is unknown), its not like they got through based on bracket luck. Almost no foreigner faced other foreigners, they took their spots fair and square and that is really cool to see.
I hate the WCS system where koreans are locked into korea but don't blame that on the foreigners that are kicking ass.
Its quite simple really, the best players should qualify, I believe that was the spirit of GSL and I also believed that was the reason you korean pro fans loved it so much. Half the fanbase cried that it was unfair when koreans went abroad and stole the money from the foreigner pros, the other half argued its fair the best players should go to the tournaments and earn the money. These korean pro fans that wanted them to be able to go any tournament is now crying that its unfair that foreigners are allowed to go to korea and win money if they are better than the koreans? Its like a bad tv show, the ultimate hypocrites.
You're missing the point. Foreigners have their own special tournaments that koreans aren't allowed to compete in. Yet they're also allowed to play in the korean tournaments and earn money there as well. Which is blatently unfair to the koreans as it's their primary source of competition.
Koreans previously going to foreigner tournaments and "stealing money" wasn't at all the same thing. There's no hypocrisy there because region locking didn't exist during this time. If foreigners wanted to play in korea they could, in fact some of them did. During this time both koreans and foreigners could play anywhere.
If you agree that the best players should be the ones who qualify, then that same mentality should apply to the WCS events where koreans aren't allowed into.
You're missing the point. Foreigners have their own special tournaments that koreans aren't allowed to compete in. Yet they're also allowed to play in the korean tournaments and earn money there as well. Which is blatently unfair to the koreans as it's their primary source of competition.
Koreans previously going to foreigner tournaments and "stealing money" wasn't at all the same thing. There's no hypocrisy there because region locking didn't exist during this time. If foreigners wanted to play in korea they could, in fact some of them did. During this time both koreans and foreigners could play anywhere.
If you agree that the best players should be the ones who qualify, then that same mentality should apply to the WCS events where koreans aren't allowed into.
The system was inherently unfair previously with Koreans being able to participate in all tournaments and having internal GSL+ other tournaments and receiving sallaries 10-50 times higher than foreign players + having coaches, team houses etc. Hence we ended up with Koreans dominating everything as realistically we had no foreign pro players. Now this is being balanced out and foreigners can catch up - at great cost mind you - the players living in Korea have to cover most of the costs from their own pocket (wcs winnings) unlike Koreans in the past. All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game..
On March 29 2018 02:27 10dla wrote: Why is it cool that foreigner take gsl spots off struggling koreans?
What the hell is wrong with all of you, whats not cool with foreigners winning GSL code S spots?
You all act as if the spots where won in a raffle, Sortof got first spot in his bracket defeating unknown korean, Creator and eMotion. Elazer got his spot defeating PartinG and Hurricane. Zanster went through Salvation and Ragnarok. Scarlett went through TY and Bunny to take first spot.
All of the above are high level korean pros (even though PartinGs form is unknown), its not like they got through based on bracket luck. Almost no foreigner faced other foreigners, they took their spots fair and square and that is really cool to see.
I hate the WCS system where koreans are locked into korea but don't blame that on the foreigners that are kicking ass.
Its quite simple really, the best players should qualify, I believe that was the spirit of GSL and I also believed that was the reason you korean pro fans loved it so much. Half the fanbase cried that it was unfair when koreans went abroad and stole the money from the foreigner pros, the other half argued its fair the best players should go to the tournaments and earn the money. These korean pro fans that wanted them to be able to go any tournament is now crying that its unfair that foreigners are allowed to go to korea and win money if they are better than the koreans? Its like a bad tv show, the ultimate hypocrites.
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I hope the people who are saying that the GSL is the most prestigious tournament in the world aren't the same ones who are now bashing foreigners breaking into the GSL.
You're missing the point. Foreigners have their own special tournaments that koreans aren't allowed to compete in. Yet they're also allowed to play in the korean tournaments and earn money there as well. Which is blatently unfair to the koreans as it's their primary source of competition.
Koreans previously going to foreigner tournaments and "stealing money" wasn't at all the same thing. There's no hypocrisy there because region locking didn't exist during this time. If foreigners wanted to play in korea they could, in fact some of them did. During this time both koreans and foreigners could play anywhere.
If you agree that the best players should be the ones who qualify, then that same mentality should apply to the WCS events where koreans aren't allowed into.
The system was inherently unfair previously with Koreans being able to participate in all tournaments and having internal GSL+ other tournaments and receiving sallaries 10-50 times higher than foreign players + having coaches, team houses etc. Hence we ended up with Koreans dominating everything as realistically we had no foreign pro players. Now this is being balanced out and foreigners can catch up - at great cost mind you - the players living in Korea have to cover most of the costs from their own pocket (wcs winnings) unlike Koreans in the past. All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game..
Foreigners were able to compete in GSL and other korean tournaments before you know? Some of them even moved into kespa houses and played in proleague/SSL etc. The only thing koreans had "unfair" was the teamstructure. If foreigners actually trained and practiced just as hard they would been able to compete better. Which some of them did (Snute for example).
It's really not "balanced out" now either, the current system is grossly in favour of foreigners. Giving them access to literally everything while koreans are restricted to their own tournaments. The top koreans may be okay but the mid-low tier ones have been almost completely killed of.
"All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game" what utter nonsense. Not that I'd expect anything better from the most deluded foreign fanboy on the site.
I do think though that this is an illustration of why the qualifiers are flawed in it's approach. We all know weekend tournies are different to GSL. But the qualifier is run like a weekend tourney.
I feel like that's why you get some people making into the GSL to then just get demolished, because they may have the flare to make it through a weekend, but not the skills to stand up to people who will come prepared for you specifically. This just means some of the other pros who are actually good at the GSL format miss out, and you get a lackluster early round.
Foreigners were able to compete in GSL and other korean tournaments before you know? Some of them even moved into kespa houses and played in proleague/SSL etc. The only thing koreans had "unfair" was the teamstructure. If foreigners actually trained and practiced just as hard they would been able to compete better. Which some of them did (Snute for example).
It's really not "balanced out" now either, the current system is grossly in favour of foreigners. Giving them access to literally everything while koreans are restricted to their own tournaments. The top koreans may be okay but the mid-low tier ones have been almost completely killed of.
"All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game" what utter nonsense. Not that I'd expect anything better from the most deluded foreign fanboy on the site.
I think you are really missing the point. Foreign players have always or mostly had to pay for their visits to Korea from their own pocket, teams (with few exceptions) did not pay for this, just like it is now. There are foreigners in Korea coz they won prize money in wcs (but also they do get some support now, otherwise it would be impossible to rent the flat get pc's etc). Koreans did not only receive all the support that I mentioned earlier but they were also flown in and received free accommodation from tournament organizers like Homestory cup (this is not available to foreiggners who have to pay to participate in the cup), just to pick up a check. How can you even compare the passion foreign players have vs Koreans. Koreans have always had all their bills and accommodation paid while earning 10-50 x more from their teams..
You're missing the point. Foreigners have their own special tournaments that koreans aren't allowed to compete in. Yet they're also allowed to play in the korean tournaments and earn money there as well. Which is blatently unfair to the koreans as it's their primary source of competition.
Koreans previously going to foreigner tournaments and "stealing money" wasn't at all the same thing. There's no hypocrisy there because region locking didn't exist during this time. If foreigners wanted to play in korea they could, in fact some of them did. During this time both koreans and foreigners could play anywhere.
If you agree that the best players should be the ones who qualify, then that same mentality should apply to the WCS events where koreans aren't allowed into.
The system was inherently unfair previously with Koreans being able to participate in all tournaments and having internal GSL+ other tournaments and receiving sallaries 10-50 times higher than foreign players + having coaches, team houses etc. Hence we ended up with Koreans dominating everything as realistically we had no foreign pro players. Now this is being balanced out and foreigners can catch up - at great cost mind you - the players living in Korea have to cover most of the costs from their own pocket (wcs winnings) unlike Koreans in the past. All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game..
Foreigners were able to compete in GSL and other korean tournaments before you know? Some of them even moved into kespa houses and played in proleague/SSL etc. The only thing koreans had "unfair" was the teamstructure. If foreigners actually trained and practiced just as hard they would been able to compete better. Which some of them did (Snute for example).
It's really not "balanced out" now either, the current system is grossly in favour of foreigners. Giving them access to literally everything while koreans are restricted to their own tournaments. The top koreans may be okay but the mid-low tier ones have been almost completely killed off.
The problem was that once the Koreans got an advantage, they snowballed that advantage until no foreigner could compete monetarily. I cannot speak for how much foreigners practiced then, but if the pro is not making money, that pro either had to win or retire.
Having that team structure is really huge. It's like saying, "You don't need a coach to be a good swimmer." Well....you don't, but it sure helps.
Because there was no region lock, it was difficult for foreigners to move into that team house environment in Korea and keep paying for the costs.
Besides, as TRUE just proved, you can indeed be a Korean competing on a visa and still play for the GSL/Supertournament.
You're missing the point. Foreigners have their own special tournaments that koreans aren't allowed to compete in. Yet they're also allowed to play in the korean tournaments and earn money there as well. Which is blatently unfair to the koreans as it's their primary source of competition.
Koreans previously going to foreigner tournaments and "stealing money" wasn't at all the same thing. There's no hypocrisy there because region locking didn't exist during this time. If foreigners wanted to play in korea they could, in fact some of them did. During this time both koreans and foreigners could play anywhere.
If you agree that the best players should be the ones who qualify, then that same mentality should apply to the WCS events where koreans aren't allowed into.
The system was inherently unfair previously with Koreans being able to participate in all tournaments and having internal GSL+ other tournaments and receiving sallaries 10-50 times higher than foreign players + having coaches, team houses etc. Hence we ended up with Koreans dominating everything as realistically we had no foreign pro players. Now this is being balanced out and foreigners can catch up - at great cost mind you - the players living in Korea have to cover most of the costs from their own pocket (wcs winnings) unlike Koreans in the past. All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game..
Foreigners were able to compete in GSL and other korean tournaments before you know? Some of them even moved into kespa houses and played in proleague/SSL etc. The only thing koreans had "unfair" was the teamstructure. If foreigners actually trained and practiced just as hard they would been able to compete better. Which some of them did (Snute for example).
It's really not "balanced out" now either, the current system is grossly in favour of foreigners. Giving them access to literally everything while koreans are restricted to their own tournaments. The top koreans may be okay but the mid-low tier ones have been almost completely killed off.
The problem was that once the Koreans got an advantage, they snowballed that advantage until no foreigner could compete monetarily. I cannot speak for how much foreigners practiced then, but if the pro is not making money, that pro either had to win or retire.
Having that team structure is really huge. It's like saying, "You don't need a coach to be a good swimmer." Well....you don't, but it sure helps.
Because there was no region lock, it was difficult for foreigners to move into that team house environment in Korea and keep paying for the costs.
Besides, as TRUE just proved, you can indeed be a Korean competing on a visa and still play for the GSL/Supertournament.
Foreigners could compete if they had practiced properly, they just didn't bother. Snute did incredible throughout HoTS, so did a few others. That's because they were committed. The teamhouse environment didn't automatically improve results, I'm sure it helped a lot of up and coming players but using it as an excuse for poor performance is stupid. Taeja basically lived as a foreigner and managed to win enough. Other players like Rain, ByuN etc won GSL without a teamhouse behind them.
It's nice that blizz allowed TRUE to play in both GSL and WCS though. Although it's worth noting the mid-tier koreans are probably unable of doing what he's done without a rich team supporting them, so it's not like they're as free as he is. I'd assume they allowed it because it's over a month until the next wcs event (one of the requirements for korean players in wcs is for them to reside in their region for a month before a an event). What's more baffling is how he qualified for both GSL and ST given his usual level of play.
The Global Starcraft League has a whole one eighth of its player base from a country other than the one we have been taught to fetishize. The sky is falling.
TL should keep a counter of how many times region-lock has been discussed without any new points being raised. I'm all for discussion, but if you don't bring anything new to the table it just becomes an stale snorefest
There was a discussion two days ago that covered everything that's been said here already, and in all likelihood, whatever is going to be said here in the near future
Koreans used to have an organic advantage in their developed scene. Foreigners now have an artificial advantage in Blizzard's diktat. Korean SC2 is dying and will last a few more years at most. Foreign SC2 will probably follow it into the grave. The end.
On March 29 2018 02:27 10dla wrote: Why is it cool that foreigner take gsl spots off struggling koreans?
What the hell is wrong with all of you, whats not cool with foreigners winning GSL code S spots?
You all act as if the spots where won in a raffle, Sortof got first spot in his bracket defeating unknown korean, Creator and eMotion. Elazer got his spot defeating PartinG and Hurricane. Zanster went through Salvation and Ragnarok. Scarlett went through TY and Bunny to take first spot.
All of the above are high level korean pros (even though PartinGs form is unknown), its not like they got through based on bracket luck. Almost no foreigner faced other foreigners, they took their spots fair and square and that is really cool to see.
I hate the WCS system where koreans are locked into korea but don't blame that on the foreigners that are kicking ass.
Its quite simple really, the best players should qualify, I believe that was the spirit of GSL and I also believed that was the reason you korean pro fans loved it so much. Half the fanbase cried that it was unfair when koreans went abroad and stole the money from the foreigner pros, the other half argued its fair the best players should go to the tournaments and earn the money. These korean pro fans that wanted them to be able to go any tournament is now crying that its unfair that foreigners are allowed to go to korea and win money if they are better than the koreans? Its like a bad tv show, the ultimate hypocrites.
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What the hell is wrong with you, what's not cool with koreans winning WCS tournaments.?
You all act like the trophies were won in a raffle, Duckdeok made it to the finals by beating Grubby. Jaedong did it by beating Scarlett.
.............
All of the above are high level foreign pros, it's not like they got through based on bracket luck.
I hate the WCS system but don't blame this on the koreans who are kicking ass.
You see where this is going? If you were one of the guys who didn't like the previous system, then you are extremely hypocritical and not to be taken seriously.
On March 29 2018 11:27 Circumstance wrote: The Global Starcraft League has a whole one eighth of its player base from a country other than the one we have been taught to fetishize. The sky is falling.
Yeah the bottom eigth of the korean scene can't earn money because of an unfair system. Not a big deal, who cares about these players anyway? Only Dark, Classic, Inno etc are important the other players don't matter.
On March 29 2018 11:49 pvsnp wrote: TL should keep a counter of how many times region-lock has been discussed without any new points being raised. I'm all for discussion, but if you don't bring anything new to the table it just becomes an stale snorefest
There was a discussion two days ago that covered everything that's been said here already, and in all likelihood, whatever is going to be said here in the near future
Koreans used to have an organic advantage in their developed scene. Foreigners now have an artificial advantage in Blizzard's diktat. Korean SC2 is dying and will last a few more years at most. Foreign SC2 will probably follow it into the grave. The end.
Well the debate generally rests on two key issues, which are: 1). How much did the developed scene help Koreans over foreigners? 2). How unfair is the current scene? and of course, it's a debate with no clear answer.
Region locks will continue to be discussed for as long as foreigners face Koreans in the Global tournaments or in the GSL, because someone will either mention how unfair the system is now towards Koreans or be rather vitriolic towards foreigners.
That being said, I think TRUE being in the GSL adds a new dimension to the debate, because he's the first Korean to play from the WCS circuit and qualify for the GSL, as Taeja, Hydra, and Polt when playing from America did not generally try to qualify for the GSL. It opens up the discussion for the possibility of teams sponsoring other Koreans to play in the WCS circuit as well as trying out for the GSL.
What was that about Koreans being able to do the same thing and region-lock being fair?
I said this yesterday:
On March 27 2018 05:05 pvsnp wrote: People are overlooking Blizzard's role in all of this. It's a safe assumption that Blizzard wants region-lock to be a thing (since yknow, it actually is a thing and all). That being the case, if a bunch of Koreans can circumvent region-lock and continue with their pre-region-lock behavior, the natural reaction from Blizzard is to simply update the rules in order to keep the Koreans out of foreign tournaments.
It goes something like this:
1. Region-lock is implemented to keep Koreans from dominating all the foreign tournaments
2. Multiple Koreans start using a legal loophole to dominate foreign tournaments
3. Blizzard steps in and bans this
4. Koreans have wasted a bunch of time, effort, and money
Really, it's not surprising that none of the Koreans bother to try.
What is surprising to me, however, is just how many people are defending region-lock as a "fair" system. Region-lock is blatantly unfair by definition. Whether it is justified is up for debate, but the fact that it is an unfair system is incontestable.
An unfair system in the past doesn't mean an unfair system today suddenly becomes fair. Yes, a system can be both unfair and justified (perhaps region-lock is such a system, perhaps not). Foreigners like Scarlett, Major, etc, are taking advantage of an unfair system. These are all simple concepts, and I cannot fathom how or why people cannot understand them unless they're so myopically hidebound as to believe they or the players they cheer for must always have the moral high ground, even when such a thing doesn't exist.
I've been saying for the past couple days that the rules indicate it's not possible for a Korean to play in both, despite people arguing with me that that isn't the case.
But darn that just seems so unnecessary from blizzard. Allowing Scarlett and the others to play but not TRUE is so strange. If he counts as American under one set of rules he should count under another.
Foreigners were able to compete in GSL and other korean tournaments before you know? Some of them even moved into kespa houses and played in proleague/SSL etc. The only thing koreans had "unfair" was the teamstructure. If foreigners actually trained and practiced just as hard they would been able to compete better. Which some of them did (Snute for example).
It's really not "balanced out" now either, the current system is grossly in favour of foreigners. Giving them access to literally everything while koreans are restricted to their own tournaments. The top koreans may be okay but the mid-low tier ones have been almost completely killed of.
"All unfairness results from past decisions to focus on Korea, which in fact was killing popularity of the game" what utter nonsense. Not that I'd expect anything better from the most deluded foreign fanboy on the site.
I think you are really missing the point. Foreign players have always or mostly had to pay for their visits to Korea from their own pocket, teams (with few exceptions) did not pay for this, just like it is now. There are foreigners in Korea coz they won prize money in wcs (but also they do get some support now, otherwise it would be impossible to rent the flat get pc's etc). Koreans did not only receive all the support that I mentioned earlier but they were also flown in and received free accommodation from tournament organizers like Homestory cup (this is not available to foreiggners who have to pay to participate in the cup), just to pick up a check. How can you even compare the passion foreign players have vs Koreans. Koreans have always had all their bills and accommodation paid while earning 10-50 x more from their teams..
Tournament organizers need viewership to generate revenue. To get viewership, you need big name players. They either needed to massively increase the prize pool to attract top players or invite/accomodate them. In that sense, korean players went overseas to collect the fair share of money they earned for the event organizers. Foreigners could have also benefited in that overall prize pool wouldn't be as large had top korean players not attended the tournaments.
I've been saying for the past couple days that the rules indicate it's not possible for a Korean to play in both, despite people arguing with me that that isn't the case.
But darn that just seems so unnecessary from blizzard. Allowing Scarlett and the others to play but not TRUE is so strange. If he counts as American under one set of rules he should count under another.
You're still wrong--the rules as written do allow it.
I do confess that I was wrong in my assumption that Blizzard would let things slide, since it's only TRUE and that in all likelihood there will be no other Koreans in the same situation.
I've been saying for the past couple days that the rules indicate it's not possible for a Korean to play in both, despite people arguing with me that that isn't the case.
But darn that just seems so unnecessary from blizzard. Allowing Scarlett and the others to play but not TRUE is so strange. If he counts as American under one set of rules he should count under another.
You're still wrong--the rules as written do allow it.
I do confess that I was wrong in my assumption that Blizzard would let things slide, since it's only TRUE and that in all likelihood there will be no other Koreans in the same situation.
"And Blizzard will try to maintain an illusion of fairness"
I found your mistake, though I take no joy in it. It wouldn't have hurt anyone if Blizzard just looked the other way, but I guess they decided this was important enough to whack TRUE over.
I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
On March 29 2018 13:47 argonautdice wrote: I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
The Koreans who would get those slots would be top Koreans who are mostly unaffected by the presence of foreigners in GSL rather than the lower-tier Koreans who are.
My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and still meet the very strict criteria to be a "qualifying foreign resident" category WCS Circuit player (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
On March 29 2018 12:06 Charoisaur wrote: Only Dark, Classic, Inno etc are important the other players don't matter.
I thought it was notable (since people keep talking about the motivation for region-lock being teamhouse and coach advantage) that the players you cited are ex-SKT players and therefore aren't playing on teams and don't have coaches.
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
On March 29 2018 13:47 argonautdice wrote: I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
WESG runs on the exact model you are describing, and look at what happened there. The handful of Koreans would slaughter the foreigners and every single Ro4 would be all-Korean.
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
My reading is that he has to be living in the USA for one uninterrupted month prior to the start date of WCS Austin (June 1) to be eligible: "a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate."
Given the projected length of GSL, that's probably a RO16 forfeit (since RO16 is probably going to be played in May), and 100% a forfeit for anything RO8 and higher.
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
My reading is that he has to be living in the USA for one uninterrupted month prior to the start date of WCS Austin (June 1). Given the projected length of GSL, that's probably a RO16 forfeit (since RO16 is probably going to be played in May), and 100% a forfeit for anything RO8 and higher.
Reading it that way means that permanent residents such as MaSa would need to live in their country for an entire uninterrupted year prior to the event due to 4.6(b) being worded in the same manner, which isn't the case.
Apparently it's the 5 week clause that Blizzard just retroactively amended:
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
My reading is that he has to be living in the USA for one uninterrupted month prior to the start date of WCS Austin (June 1) to be eligible: "a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate."
Given the projected length of GSL, that's probably a RO16 forfeit (since RO16 is probably going to be played in May), and 100% a forfeit for anything RO8 and higher.
Wait, but wouldn't that same restriction force Scarlett et al. to forfeit?
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
My reading is that he has to be living in the USA for one uninterrupted month prior to the start date of WCS Austin (June 1) to be eligible: "a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate."
Given the projected length of GSL, that's probably a RO16 forfeit (since RO16 is probably going to be played in May), and 100% a forfeit for anything RO8 and higher.
Wait, but wouldn't that same restriction force Scarlett et al. to forfeit?
Which clearly hasn't happened.
No. They aren't "qualifying foreign residents". But regardless it isn't that part apparently.
On March 29 2018 13:51 Waxangel wrote: My best guess regarding TRUE would be that it's be very difficult to complete a full season of GSL and compete in WCS Circuit while still adhering to the very strict rules for "qualifying foreign resident" category players (essentially TRUE with his American athlete visa and Swedish Winter with his student visa in Japan):
(c) For the purposes of the WCS, a “qualifying foreign resident” is a participant who has provided Blizzard with proof that he or she has resided in a Circuit Country for at least one month prior to the first match of the event in which the participant wishes to participate, and who has provided Blizzard with a copy of his or her passport and a copy of his or her valid resident visa for that country that does not expire until after the conclusion of that event. A “qualifying foreign resident” may travel for non-competitive reasons outside of his or her country of residence only for a maximum of five weeks during the WCS Period, and must obtain Blizzard’s approval in advance before traveling outside of his or her country of residence during the WCS Period unless the travel is for purposes of participating in a WCS Global Event. In addition, a “qualifying foreign resident” must win at least 100 StarCraft II ladder games per month in his or her Circuit Region, and must play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region. Blizzard may waive one or more of these “qualifying foreign resident” requirements for participants who provide Blizzard with proof of their consistent residency in a country since January 1, 2013.
Perhaps that information was relayed to him in a way that he interpreted it as "you MUST forfeit one" without any further explanation. I'm just guessing for now.
Yeah, but which part of the rule?
The maximum of five weeks are for "non-competitive reasons" which GSL presumably doesn't fall under. Additionally the "resided in a Circuit Country for a least one month prior to the first match of the event" is a residency requirement which based on the fact that the wording is identical to part 4.6(b) for permanent residents is a requirement on the beginning of the terms of residency (and TRUE most assuredly became a resident more than one month prior).
TRUE has admittedly been breaking the rather ridiculous requirement to "play all StarCraft II online tournament and ladder games from his or her Circuit Region", but he did that a number of times last year without repercussions.
I guess these terms do sanction Blizzard arbitrarily denying approval of travel.
My reading is that he has to be living in the USA for one uninterrupted month prior to the start date of WCS Austin (June 1). Given the projected length of GSL, that's probably a RO16 forfeit (since RO16 is probably going to be played in May), and 100% a forfeit for anything RO8 and higher.
Reading it that way means that permanent residents such as MaSa would need to live in their country for an entire uninterrupted year prior to the event due to 4.6(b) being worded in the same manner, which isn't the case.
Apparently it's the 5 week clause that Blizzard just retroactively amended:
On March 29 2018 13:47 argonautdice wrote: I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
The Koreans who would get those slots would be top Koreans who are mostly unaffected by the presence of foreigners in GSL rather than the lower-tier Koreans who are.
I think a better solution is to put a cap on points that people can earn in a given region before having to stay in your home region.
Say 1500 points. You can compete in WCS/Korea up to that point in time, but after you reach 1500 (or something) points in a region, you cannnot earn more points. This would allow lower level foreigners to compete in GSL while at the same time allowing lower level Koreans to compete in WCS up to a certain point in time.
And then put a cap on where you can compete if you reached x amount of points in a prior season. If you accumulated...say 4000 points in a given year and region, you are barred from competing in another region.
On March 29 2018 13:47 argonautdice wrote: I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
The Koreans who would get those slots would be top Koreans who are mostly unaffected by the presence of foreigners in GSL rather than the lower-tier Koreans who are.
I think a better solution is to put a cap on points that people can earn in a given region before having to stay in your home region.
Say 1500 points. You can compete in WCS/Korea up to that point in time, but after you reach 1500 (or something) points in a region, you cannnot earn more points. This would allow lower level foreigners to compete in GSL while at the same time allowing lower level Koreans to compete in WCS up to a certain point in time.
And then put a cap on where you can compete if you reached x amount of points in a prior season. If you accumulated...say 4000 points in a given year and region, you are barred from competing in another region.
Lower level Koreans can't afford to compete in WCS. Additionally a point cap sounds like a rather ugly solution overall.
On March 29 2018 13:47 argonautdice wrote: I think a good solution would be to give Koreans 2-4 slots in the Ro32 of WCS tournaments. Or hold a qualifier for about 4 spots to let them compete in the open bracket.
The Koreans who would get those slots would be top Koreans who are mostly unaffected by the presence of foreigners in GSL rather than the lower-tier Koreans who are.
I think a better solution is to put a cap on points that people can earn in a given region before having to stay in your home region.
Say 1500 points. You can compete in WCS/Korea up to that point in time, but after you reach 1500 (or something) points in a region, you cannnot earn more points. This would allow lower level foreigners to compete in GSL while at the same time allowing lower level Koreans to compete in WCS up to a certain point in time.
And then put a cap on where you can compete if you reached x amount of points in a prior season. If you accumulated...say 4000 points in a given year and region, you are barred from competing in another region.
Lower level Koreans can't afford to compete in WCS. Additionally a point cap sounds like a rather ugly solution overall.
They can play in the qualifiers and earn money there. They can afford to fly there as much as lower level foreigners can afford to fly there.
Yes, a point cap is ugly, but it is an effective way of barring someone from competing if that person is too good.
Using a 2000 previous season cap for Korea, because they're better, players like Trap, Losira, Zest, and Keen could play in WCS. Yes, they're quite good, but top level and even mid-tier foreigners can win against these players. Zest was in a slump last year, which is why he's so low.
I'll never get over the mental gymnastics some people on this forum use. "Koreans are better than foreigners, so if they win than they deserve it. But when foreigners win the system is unfair, we can't have people thinking foreigners can compete with the Korean master race." You can't compare the impact of 4 foreigners playing in GSL, most of whom will lose early on, and 3/4 of the top 16 at every foreign event being Korean. One damages the lowest tiers of the scene, the other completely kills it from top to bottom.
On March 29 2018 15:53 Solar424 wrote: I'll never get over the mental gymnastics some people on this forum use. "Koreans are better than foreigners, so if they win than they deserve it. But when foreigners win the system is unfair, we can't have people thinking foreigners can compete with the Korean master race." You can't compare the impact of 4 foreigners playing in GSL, most of whom will lose early on, and 3/4 of the top 16 at every foreign event being Korean. One damages the lowest tiers of the scene, the other completely kills it from top to bottom.
What? How can they do this? This is outrageous. It's unfair. How can foreigners be allowed to play in both tournaments without any issue but koreans not be allowed to do the same???
On March 29 2018 15:53 Solar424 wrote: I'll never get over the mental gymnastics some people on this forum use. "Koreans are better than foreigners, so if they win than they deserve it. But when foreigners win the system is unfair, we can't have people thinking foreigners can compete with the Korean master race." You can't compare the impact of 4 foreigners playing in GSL, most of whom will lose early on, and 3/4 of the top 16 at every foreign event being Korean. One damages the lowest tiers of the scene, the other completely kills it from top to bottom.
And damaging the lowest tier doesn't matter?
It matters less than damaging every tier, which is what would happen if the region lock were removed.
What? How can they do this? This is outrageous. It's unfair. How can foreigners be allowed to play in both tournaments without any issue but koreans not be allowed to do the same???
uhhh it's been pretty explicit in the rules since like 2016
but yes, it's very openly unfair, few people disputes that. the disagreements are about "is it worth it to protect/favor the foreign scene at the cost of such unfairness?"
So what are the rules here, you can play in WCS if you have a visa, but if you want to play WCS and GSL you can be anything, but Korean? This is actually a hilarious/sad/genuinely-not-sure-if-this-isn't-racism turn of events.
TRUE is in literally the same fucking situation as every foreigner in Seoul at the moment, if the prolonged stay in Korea doesn't affect his visa, then this is just a clear fucking abuse of the rules.
On March 29 2018 15:53 Solar424 wrote: I'll never get over the mental gymnastics some people on this forum use. "Koreans are better than foreigners, so if they win than they deserve it. But when foreigners win the system is unfair, we can't have people thinking foreigners can compete with the Korean master race." You can't compare the impact of 4 foreigners playing in GSL, most of whom will lose early on, and 3/4 of the top 16 at every foreign event being Korean. One damages the lowest tiers of the scene, the other completely kills it from top to bottom.
And damaging the lowest tier doesn't matter?
It matters less than damaging every tier, which is what would happen if the region lock were removed.
Not really, the high-mid tier foreigners would still be able to earn plenty of money by playing the game. The only ones forced to retire would be the low-tier players as well just like in the korean scene.
I didn't think the 2013/2014 system was good either but implementing a only-one-way regionlock is just plainly unfair.
On March 29 2018 02:27 10dla wrote: Why is it cool that foreigner take gsl spots off struggling koreans?
What the hell is wrong with all of you, whats not cool with foreigners winning GSL code S spots?
You all act as if the spots where won in a raffle, Sortof got first spot in his bracket defeating unknown korean, Creator and eMotion. Elazer got his spot defeating PartinG and Hurricane. Zanster went through Salvation and Ragnarok. Scarlett went through TY and Bunny to take first spot.
All of the above are high level korean pros (even though PartinGs form is unknown), its not like they got through based on bracket luck. Almost no foreigner faced other foreigners, they took their spots fair and square and that is really cool to see.
I hate the WCS system where koreans are locked into korea but don't blame that on the foreigners that are kicking ass.
Its quite simple really, the best players should qualify, I believe that was the spirit of GSL and I also believed that was the reason you korean pro fans loved it so much. Half the fanbase cried that it was unfair when koreans went abroad and stole the money from the foreigner pros, the other half argued its fair the best players should go to the tournaments and earn the money. These korean pro fans that wanted them to be able to go any tournament is now crying that its unfair that foreigners are allowed to go to korea and win money if they are better than the koreans? Its like a bad tv show, the ultimate hypocrites.
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What the hell is wrong with you, what's not cool with koreans winning WCS tournaments.?
You all act like the trophies were won in a raffle, Duckdeok made it to the finals by beating Grubby. Jaedong did it by beating Scarlett.
.............
All of the above are high level foreign pros, it's not like they got through based on bracket luck.
I hate the WCS system but don't blame this on the koreans who are kicking ass.
You see where this is going? If you were one of the guys who didn't like the previous system, then you are extremely hypocritical and not to be taken seriously.
I want everyone to be able to compete in everything, no matter what nation is better. The best should win obviously, no hypocrite here.
What gets me is why anyone would devalue a players accomplishment just because someone else that played in the same tournament had different circumstances surrounding them. Be upset at the organizers all you want but its but its not the players fault.
You all seem really sure the foreigners will get wrecked straight away, lets just say I'm not so sure about that. This was interesting brackets and it will be even more interesting to see where it goes from here.
EPT
Stats, 
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0GsVg4s.jpg)
