Currently Sea, Stork and Larva are talking about the the cause of matchfixing, how it matchfixing happened, and how to prevent it for future
Stork, as a person who coached SC2 during matchfixing incident as well has having gone through savior matchfixing incident as well as a player, has something to say about it.
Stork is talking about his perspective as SC2 coach during matchfixing scandal SC2 matchfixing happened in these steps according to stork
1) First, matchfixers entice players with "not really matchfixing" bets such as game over by X minutes- so people do all in to end game at X minute regardless of if they lose or not
remember all those reports of strange bets on betting sites? It was because of these bets allowed easy introductory matchfixing offers.
2) Second, brokers got hold of weakness (particiation in betting), makes progamers lose/throw game of them under threat of exposing them. Now brokers have control of progamers fully.
3) snowballs into full blown matchfixing system
And the beginning offer usually comes from people the players know personally, like friends and people they know. They first approach people as if they are asking for favor, then grabs hold of them and take control.
Stork said he himself got an offer to matchfix during his progaming days, when he was at his height from someone he personally knows by phone. Stork said the offer was larger than his month's salary (thousands of dollars), but he immediately cut his friend off, and told his team of the situation
But since Korea don't have much monetary punishment for these match-fixing incidents, its easy to get enticed as punishment isn't much of a deterrent as it is very lenient.
The initial amount that is often quoted to be matchfixed for, such as sky getting $4.5k, savior getting $2k, for matchfixing is in no way true according to him, since other factors go in as well, since player participating in matchfixing would participate in betting himself and getting their cuts.
Stork said he felt enraged as he saw people stop attending live matches during SC2 era with matchfixing. When he saw attendance fall, he couldnt help but to think about matchfixers who had ruined all these that his predecessors and the peers paved way for.
He also believes that while matchfixers could work in other fields, they should never step into the game they ruined as streamer again. [life, savior, ect]
Interesting perspective from the man himself. Very slimy methods from broker to hook these gamers.
edit: However, its not to say matchfixers can't be taken light of either: These matchfixers already got education from kespa after the whole original BW matchfixing incident as well so they should know better.
I think this is great to have it stated so clearly, maybe people will finally understand that the match-fixing players aren't the worth scum on Earth, but that really this title should be reserved for exactly those people described here who manipulated them into it.
On March 15 2018 20:50 opisska wrote: I think this is great to have it stated so clearly, maybe people will finally understand that the match-fixing players aren't the worth scum on Earth, but that really this title should be reserved for exactly those people described here who manipulated them into it.
Yes, but majority of blame should be placed on the matchbroker, but not all responsibility should escape the matchfixers themselves. It explains their decision and how they could be influenced, but not excuse the crime itself
To other peers and progamers, these people returning to scene is unthinkable after damage they caused due to their greed and temptation
On March 15 2018 22:42 Poixyois wrote: And that is exclusive to Starcraft 2? Doesnt happen like that in any other game?
This is first time so much clarification and information had been released, after years of tip toeing around and talking around the sc2 matchfixing incident from korea.
On March 15 2018 22:52 DieuCure wrote: Lol seriously , divert attention to SC2 while it s BW who is in turmoil, what a beautiful mentality ...
This isnt sc2 vs bw. Stork brought it up to explain his perspective as coach vs as a player during savior incident as well as now.
In turn, it also cleared tons of info that were left unclear during sc2 matchfixing incident and explains tons of stuff, namely, olimoly explanations, mal's tournement being suspicious, mal getting duped by tourny organizers, how players were approached, ect.
Stork cleared that all up when it was left for interpretation for years...
Wait they forced players to matchfix by threatening of exposing them? Then maybe the caught matchfixers are the ones that refused to continue matchfixing and thus got exposed. So maybe the real scum wasn't caught and continued matchfixing while we punished the people that stood up against it...
^fair assumption. Until we can plausibly determine the profile of matchfixing players, we ought to consider the possibility that the ones previously outed in connection with it were scapegoats, i.e. damage control.
On March 15 2018 22:52 DieuCure wrote: Lol seriously , divert attention to SC2 while it s BW who is in turmoil, what a beautiful mentality ...
This isnt sc2 vs bw. Stork brought it up to explain his perspective as coach vs as a player during savior incident as well as now.
In turn, it also cleared tons of info that were left unclear during sc2 matchfixing incident and explains tons of stuff, namely, olimoly explanations, mal's tournement being suspicious, mal getting duped by tourny organizers, how players were approached, ect.
Stork cleared that all up when it was left for interpretation for years...
Why has not this been said before the recent match-fixing scandal?
Among the problems is that there is no prevention - of course, that is hard to do with the scene being small, but long time ago all the players had to go through sportsmanship trainings where they would educate them about these dangers. I only know about them in SC2 and the ended in about 2012.
Of course, there are no resources for such trainings, but the point is that pretending that the past scandals have not happened has surely not helped. I find it absurd that there is so little info about what happened with BBoongBBoong, Gerrard, and Life. Perhaps had it been more discussed, had people like Stork said what he just said earlier and these practices were well known, players would've been more careful.
I very much think it's a mistake that it's a big no-no talking about the past cases and even here any threads are closed, or in the best heavily discouraged - and I do not mean empty repetitive threads, I mean that when for example there is a rare new information (such as Artosis talking about Life shortly on his stream) it gets deleted here and downvoted on reddit. Doping/cheating cases in traditional sports are heavily documented and discussed in media, while SC media does the opposite.
Of course, Sky is a scum, but now he'll just go do something else knowing that few months from now, no-one will (be allowed to) mention his name. But sweeping these things under the carpet won't help. Stork should have been talking about this (even in a greater detail) before, but still, it wouldn't be discussed here or on reddit, because "we've to move on and not bring more attention to matchfixing," as has happened few times before.
On April 25 2018 18:22 anatem wrote: Not this matchfixing bullshit again...
I understand that's dreadful to talk about it, but if we don't want another one, we may need to know how to prevent it. If the players can fully understand how to not get involved, then it's all good, right ?
I mean, it was really a shame that savior got involved in this. This guy had so much talent and he blew it. I could understand it if the players were in financial troubles, but to happen to the best players it's not an excuse.
It's kind of like Tennis and their challengers. Match fixing happens often, simply because those players are hardly getting paid. I blame it for the huge difference in payout between the first and last place.
Stork said he felt enraged as he saw people stop attending live matches during SC2 era with matchfixing. When he saw attendance fall, he couldnt help but to think about matchfixers who had ruined all these that his predecessors and the peers paved way for.
Love this causation != correlation logic. "The populaity of the game declined because of matchfixing. It had nothing to do with the game it self and how many people played it."
let's just blame everything bad that has ever happened in the world on hitler... I mean sorry matchfixers.
On March 16 2018 02:38 seopthi wrote: Why has not this been said before the recent match-fixing scandal?
Among the problems is that there is no prevention - of course, that is hard to do with the scene being small, but long time ago all the players had to go through sportsmanship trainings where they would educate them about these dangers. I only know about them in SC2 and the ended in about 2012.
Of course, there are no resources for such trainings, but the point is that pretending that the past scandals have not happened has surely not helped. I find it absurd that there is so little info about what happened with BBoongBBoong, Gerrard, and Life. Perhaps had it been more discussed, had people like Stork said what he just said earlier and these practices were well known, players would've been more careful.
I very much think it's a mistake that it's a big no-no talking about the past cases and even here any threads are closed, or in the best heavily discouraged - and I do not mean empty repetitive threads, I mean that when for example there is a rare new information (such as Artosis talking about Life shortly on his stream) it gets deleted here and downvoted on reddit. Doping/cheating cases in traditional sports are heavily documented and discussed in media, while SC media does the opposite.
Of course, Sky is a scum, but now he'll just go do something else knowing that few months from now, no-one will (be allowed to) mention his name. But sweeping these things under the carpet won't help. Stork should have been talking about this (even in a greater detail) before, but still, it wouldn't be discussed here or on reddit, because "we've to move on and not bring more attention to matchfixing," as has happened few times before.
this so much. i would love to know what life has been up to, what he is doing now and maybe learn his side of things. has he even tried to redeem himself? has he had talks with blizzard? like you said, just ignoring everything and making him and the others persona non gratas does more harm than good i feel. life should instead become an embassador for blizzard, admit and apologise for his wrongdoings and promote fair play and educate others about the dangers of matchfixing and how other players can avoid being sucked into this bs. everyone deserves a second chance ffs.
On March 16 2018 02:38 seopthi wrote: Why has not this been said before the recent match-fixing scandal?
Among the problems is that there is no prevention - of course, that is hard to do with the scene being small, but long time ago all the players had to go through sportsmanship trainings where they would educate them about these dangers. I only know about them in SC2 and the ended in about 2012.
Of course, there are no resources for such trainings, but the point is that pretending that the past scandals have not happened has surely not helped. I find it absurd that there is so little info about what happened with BBoongBBoong, Gerrard, and Life. Perhaps had it been more discussed, had people like Stork said what he just said earlier and these practices were well known, players would've been more careful.
I very much think it's a mistake that it's a big no-no talking about the past cases and even here any threads are closed, or in the best heavily discouraged - and I do not mean empty repetitive threads, I mean that when for example there is a rare new information (such as Artosis talking about Life shortly on his stream) it gets deleted here and downvoted on reddit. Doping/cheating cases in traditional sports are heavily documented and discussed in media, while SC media does the opposite.
Of course, Sky is a scum, but now he'll just go do something else knowing that few months from now, no-one will (be allowed to) mention his name. But sweeping these things under the carpet won't help. Stork should have been talking about this (even in a greater detail) before, but still, it wouldn't be discussed here or on reddit, because "we've to move on and not bring more attention to matchfixing," as has happened few times before.
The reasons are differents but doping in eu football and I guess us too or the american doping in olympics are not talked about either, only cyclists are the scarpegoat. (+ the russians and chineses because of politics) I think starcraft communities are heavely influenced by the korean context in which those stuffs are considered as shameful and should be buried, I am clearly uneasy with it but after 2 years, I finally made my mourning of Life's disappearance so be it. Anyway thanks for the insight.
On March 15 2018 23:02 Charoisaur wrote: Wait they forced players to matchfix by threatening of exposing them? Then maybe the caught matchfixers are the ones that refused to continue matchfixing and thus got exposed. So maybe the real scum wasn't caught and continued matchfixing while we punished the people that stood up against it...
An interesting thing to wonder is what the consequences are to players who decide to try and mention the names of the people who coerced them into participating in the first place. In the American prison system, for example, entry-level criminals who are apart of gangs or other organizations are afraid of the repercussions to their families or themselves once they're behind bars (you have fellow gang members who know you snitched or your family could be "taken care of" while there's little to nothing you can do about it).
This is one of those double-edged swords though. It's a shame that they were willing to participate once in the first place, but now you have a spiral of never being able to do your favorite sport, passion, etc. because of this looming issue over your head if you fail to comply. If Stork had all of this information, he should have brought it to light earlier.
the big shots who matchfixed (first teamers+) who risked their career that was already going well most likely had huge incentive to matchfix- like using the knowledge of matchfixing to make even more money into easily 100k+ per match with betting/spreading word around.
The big names either got alluded by this enough to risk their status or got trapped after threats. But either way, there's much more money involved than official figures
Also, all this info was known in the 2 matchfixing incident and training. It wasnt public I believe, but just shared within pro community
Stork said he felt enraged as he saw people stop attending live matches during SC2 era with matchfixing. When he saw attendance fall, he couldnt help but to think about matchfixers who had ruined all these that his predecessors and the peers paved way for.
Love this causation != correlation logic. "The populaity of the game declined because of matchfixing. It had nothing to do with the game it self and how many people played it."
let's just blame everything bad that has ever happened in the world on hitler... I mean sorry matchfixers.
Nobody said it was only a result of matchfixers. What are you talking about?
Stork saw declining numbers, thought matchfixing was a controllable part of the contribution to those numbers, and was rightfully pissed that it was happening. Nowhere does he or the article suggest or state outright that other factors were not also contributing to declining numbers.
Stork said he felt enraged as he saw people stop attending live matches during SC2 era with matchfixing. When he saw attendance fall, he couldnt help but to think about matchfixers who had ruined all these that his predecessors and the peers paved way for.
Love this causation != correlation logic. "The populaity of the game declined because of matchfixing. It had nothing to do with the game it self and how many people played it."
let's just blame everything bad that has ever happened in the world on hitler... I mean sorry matchfixers.
Nobody said it was only a result of matchfixers. What are you talking about?
Stork saw declining numbers, thought matchfixing was a controllable part of the contribution to those numbers, and was rightfully pissed that it was happening. Nowhere does he or the article suggest or state outright that other factors were not also contributing to declining numbers.
agreed, no reason for hider to assume stork meant any of that. a bit ironic that he was trying to call stork out for a presumed logical fallacy while straw-manning him at the same time
EPT
