EPTBut that no major tourmant has had a Terran in the finals for this long seems a bit unlikely given perfect balance.
Rogue wins IEM Katowice - Page 4
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
But that no major tourmant has had a Terran in the finals for this long seems a bit unlikely given perfect balance. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 05 2018 18:37 engesser1 wrote: This is not about "how to whine". JinAir rules! Rogue - bonjwa, but... IEM Season XII - World Championship ZvP finals Z-win. P-runner-up. IEM Season XII - PyeongChang same... 2018 WCS Leipzig... same stuff here. HomeStory Cup XVI - PvZ, P-win. Z-runner-up. WESG 2017 - Asia-Pacific Qualifier same stuff here. 2017 WCS Global Finals - ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. 2017 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament #2 - ZvP again. 2017 WCS Montreal PvZ again. Something wrong in here... where is terran (who?). "Raven is beyond broken and terran is favoured against Z and P because of it" | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 05 2018 20:56 MockHamill wrote: If 2 players are equally good and balance is perfect the liklihood of 4:0 s is 6%. So that result does not tell much about balance. But that no major tourmant has had a Terran in the finals for this long seems a bit unlikely given perfect balance. Given perfect balance and equal skill in all MU! This is quite hard - we can have a beast in TvZ but a loser in TvP(or vice versa). Which kinda screws the argument(though I'm not saying it's perfectly fine). | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On March 05 2018 12:35 Snarosc wrote: The Katowice vice-president who brought it also struggled to lift it. Have you just seen the size of that trophy ? When it was next to Rogue or when he tried to lift it, it covered all of his upper body from his waist to his head. That thing is so massive I wouldn't be surprised if it's weighing 15-20kg. Try lifting that above your head without struggling when you don't work out. So yeah, getting a good grip of it and lifting it might definitely be a bit difficult for quite a few. | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
On March 05 2018 22:25 D-light wrote: https://twitter.com/mbCARMAC/status/970312054195326976 So yeah, getting a good grip of it and lifting it might definitely be a bit difficult for quite a few. Would have been nice to see Zest lifting it with one hand :D | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On March 05 2018 18:37 engesser1 wrote: This is not about "how to whine". JinAir rules! Rogue - bonjwa, but... IEM Season XII - World Championship ZvP finals Z-win. P-runner-up. IEM Season XII - PyeongChang same... 2018 WCS Leipzig... same stuff here. HomeStory Cup XVI - PvZ, P-win. Z-runner-up. WESG 2017 - Asia-Pacific Qualifier same stuff here. 2017 WCS Global Finals - ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. 2017 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament #2 - ZvP again. 2017 WCS Montreal PvZ again. Something wrong in here... where is terran (who?). I'm fine with terran s current state besides raven and i already said blizzard need to be fucking careful with raven buff. No one asking for one late game solution... but whatever.... But pvz is fucking silly right now. We could argue that it's because new patch came out right before IEM,everything was new so bogus 4-0'd stats with cyclones meme is understandable. This final was boring as hell despite huge patch came out for a while.And the issues is still the damn same early game issue.Dont get angry but I think Rogue is still patchzerg and this huge patch is just another patch for him. Dark and soO are still one level above him but jin air players are very good at exploiting things and it is thier trademark since HOTS. Gotta run xD | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On March 05 2018 22:53 DSh1 wrote: Would have been nice to see Zest lifting it with one hand :D He looks damn good with it + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://dqrt72khb0whk.cloudfront.net/uploads/image/file/1221/cropped_IMG_9695.jpg?ts=1426889488) | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On March 05 2018 11:03 mierin wrote: So all of these factors...there are so many counterexamples I don't have time to list them, but off the top of my head they caused Maru to not wall off in G4, or Classic to continue on 2 stargates with at least 2 spores + queens in every base? You're missing the point of what I said entirely. Obviously each mistake you mentioned is uncorrelated to the points I mentioned. Rather than explain in another way, I'll say something different. Now that zerg have speedy drop overlords which can travel faster than unboosted medivacs, do they need to have nydus networks that are un-targetable before opening? | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 06 2018 05:50 seemsgood wrote: I'm fine with terran s current state besides raven and i already said blizzard need to be fucking careful with raven buff. No one asking for one late game solution... but whatever.... But pvz is fucking silly right now. We could argue that it's because new patch came out right before IEM,everything was new so bogus 4-0'd stats with cyclones meme is understandable. This final was boring as hell despite huge patch came out for a while.And the issues is still the damn same early game issue.Dont get angry but I think Rogue is still patchzerg and this huge patch is just another patch for him. Dark and soO are still one level above him but jin air players are very good at exploiting things and it is thier trademark since HOTS. Gotta run xD Well, you just don't want to admit Rogue played better. Nothing related to balance. And you have suddendly forget than soO loses versus Harstem, Losira/TLO/Ragnarok vs Patience, Dark vs Trap, Impact vs Dear, Serral vs Classic, and the result is 50% winrate on PvZ on this tournament. Rogue was 11-0 on ZvP, he hasn't lost a single map vs Protoss in IEM, because he is a beast on ZvP, but the other zergs are not. Serral has even beateb Rogue, but it hasn't stopped him to lose 0-3 vs Classic. On March 06 2018 06:37 KR_4EVR wrote: You're missing the point of what I said entirely. Obviously each mistake you mentioned is uncorrelated to the points I mentioned. Rather than explain in another way, I'll say something different. Now that zerg have speedy drop overlords which can travel faster than unboosted medivacs, do they need to have nydus networks that are un-targetable before opening? Overlord with speed : 2.6 Medivac without boost : 3.5... | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On March 05 2018 23:49 deacon.frost wrote: Bah, it used to be that a nerd was able to carry 17'' CRT, that's something about 20kg of weight. Good ol' nerd would have carry it Rogue needs to seriously start practicing lifting weights in case he accidently wins WESG also. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On March 06 2018 06:39 KR_4EVR wrote: Rogue needs to seriously start practicing lifting weights in case he accidently wins WESG also. I'd be really impressed by him winning a tournament he isn't even qualified for. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
Overlord with speed : 2.6 Medivac without boost : 3.5... Ok I admit I was remembering the wrong number (from Overseers (4.7)). Still, If you take average distance to average time, incorporating the fact that medivacs are unavailable until Tier-3, overlord drops can be much earlier than medivac drops. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On March 06 2018 06:45 Solar424 wrote: I'd be really impressed by him winning a tournament he isn't even qualified for. Rogue didn't qualify for IEM Katowice, either. He was seeded. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On March 06 2018 06:57 KR_4EVR wrote: Rogue didn't qualify for IEM Katowice, either. He was seeded. WESG doesn't have an open bracket like IEM. | ||
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waiting2Bbanned
United States154 Posts
On March 06 2018 06:53 KR_4EVR wrote: Ok I admit I was remembering the wrong number (from Overseers (4.7)). Still, If you take average distance to average time, incorporating the fact that medivacs are unavailable until Tier-3, overlord drops can be much earlier than medivac drops. wait..what?? Drop Ov: spawning pool, ev.chamber = 2 buildings Medivac: barracks, starport = 2 buildings so you're saying Medivac is late tech while Droperlord is early tech?? | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 06 2018 07:11 waiting2Bbanned wrote: wait..what?? Drop Ov: spawning pool, ev.chamber = 2 buildings Medivac: barracks, starport = 2 buildings so you're saying Medivac is late tech while Droperlord is early tech?? Are factories not buildings now? | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
Only in TL you can see such a high level of theorycrafting | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On March 06 2018 06:53 KR_4EVR wrote: Ok I admit I was remembering the wrong number (from Overseers (4.7)). Still, If you take average distance to average time, incorporating the fact that medivacs are unavailable until Tier-3, overlord drops can be much earlier than medivac drops. Zerg drops are also far less cost-efficient than Terran drops until much later in the game, though. 8 stim marines will do far more damage than 8 zerglings or 4 roaches. Edit: Also calling a Starport Tier 3 is LAUGHABLE, it's Tier 2 at most, more like Tier 1.75, considering that a Spire is T2 and there is absolutely no way to get one of those out before even Starport + Research tech such as Cloak Banshees. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On March 06 2018 07:11 waiting2Bbanned wrote: wait..what?? Drop Ov: spawning pool, ev.chamber = 2 buildings Medivac: barracks, starport = 2 buildings so you're saying Medivac is late tech while Droperlord is early tech?? Incorrect. You forget that while zerg starts with overlord, terran has to build supply depot before barracks. Path to 2 drop overlords: spawning pool, extractor, overlord, evo chamber, morph. Cost = 450 minerals, 50 gas, 3 drones (ignoring the cargo) Path to 2 medivacs: supply depot, barracks, orbital command, factory, reactor, starport, 2 medivacs. Cost = 1025 minerals, 450 gas, lost mining time on scvs building stuff (ignoring the cargo) None of these can realistically be skipped. I have yet to hear a legitimate argument for why zerg needs drop overlord before lair tech. Why, even ravagers can be morphed before Lair. It's not like there aren't options. | ||
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