|
On March 06 2018 09:41 SmileZerg wrote:
Edit: Also calling a Starport Tier 3 is LAUGHABLE, it's Tier 2 at most, more like Tier 1.75, considering that a Spire is T2 and there is absolutely no way to get one of those out before even Starport + Research tech such as Cloak Banshees.
Count how much you absolutely have to build to reach Vipers: Spawning pool, extractor, Lair, Infestation Pit, Hive.
Count how much you have to build to reach medivacs: supply depot, barracks, refinery, orbital command, factory, starport.
Oh, wait, that's the same amount....
But guess what? Terran doesn't have a 'tier' tech structure. I just was bringing up the building order for comparison. Yes, medivacs are comparable to vipers in tech pathing. They're expensive support units.
|
I will just say one more thing.
Watching Maru vs. sOs, I was truly impressed by both players every single game for 5 games. It was fun to watch.
Watching Rogue v. Classic, there was not one single "wow" moment in four whole games. Not the kind of thing that is going to keep SCII fanbase excited.
|
You're comparing (incorrectly) the costs of Zerg getting 2 slowverlords that can elevator a few lings up a cliff to the cost of two highly mobile transports that heal their cargo while darting back and forth between multiple attack locations.
On top of that, all this balance whining about early Zerg drop when it demonstrably failed to do anything this weekend where Serral tried to use it against Classic.
Stop being salty about bad ladder strats that you lose to.
|
On March 06 2018 10:24 SmileZerg wrote:
You're comparing (incorrectly) the costs of Zerg getting 2 slowverlords that can elevator a few lings up a cliff to the cost of two highly mobile transports that heal their cargo while darting back and forth between multiple attack locations.
On top of that, all this balance whining about early Zerg drop when it demonstrably failed to do anything this weekend where Serral tried to use it against Classic.
Stop being salty about bad ladder strats that you lose to.
When I play Terran, I don't lose to zerg. Almost never. I only lose to protoss. Then again, i'm only Diamond 2.
|
On March 06 2018 10:19 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 09:41 SmileZerg wrote:
Edit: Also calling a Starport Tier 3 is LAUGHABLE, it's Tier 2 at most, more like Tier 1.75, considering that a Spire is T2 and there is absolutely no way to get one of those out before even Starport + Research tech such as Cloak Banshees. Count how much you absolutely have to build to reach Vipers: Spawning pool, extractor, Lair, Infestation Pit, Hive. Count how much you have to build to reach medivacs: supply depot, barracks, refinery, orbital command, factory, starport. Oh, wait, that's the same amount.... But guess what? Terran doesn't have a 'tier' tech structure. I just was bringing up the building order for comparison. Yes, medivacs are comparable to vipers in tech pathing. They're expensive support units.
...are you trolling here or do you actually believe that counting the buildings is equivalent?
Here's a hint, check the build times on those structures, and also you can forget the orbital command for that list because it isn't required for any tech, but if you're including it for mineral cost than add Queens for Zerg which renders it moot.
Show me one professional game where a standard Zerg build got out Vipers at anywhere near the same timeframe Terran got Medivacs. This is a ridiculous argument, bordering on childishly stupid.
On March 06 2018 10:22 KR_4EVR wrote:
I will just say one more thing.
Watching Maru vs. sOs, I was truly impressed by both players every single game for 5 games. It was fun to watch.
Watching Rogue v. Classic, there was not one single "wow" moment in four whole games. Not the kind of thing that is going to keep SCII fanbase excited.
So you missed the entirety of game 3 when Rogue brilliantly outplayed him with feints, multiple backstabs, zergling run-arounds and drops in a long macro slugfest? Because that was genius. Stop being such a whiner.
|
On March 06 2018 10:33 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 10:19 KR_4EVR wrote:On March 06 2018 09:41 SmileZerg wrote:
Edit: Also calling a Starport Tier 3 is LAUGHABLE, it's Tier 2 at most, more like Tier 1.75, considering that a Spire is T2 and there is absolutely no way to get one of those out before even Starport + Research tech such as Cloak Banshees. Count how much you absolutely have to build to reach Vipers: Spawning pool, extractor, Lair, Infestation Pit, Hive. Count how much you have to build to reach medivacs: supply depot, barracks, refinery, orbital command, factory, starport. Oh, wait, that's the same amount.... But guess what? Terran doesn't have a 'tier' tech structure. I just was bringing up the building order for comparison. Yes, medivacs are comparable to vipers in tech pathing. They're expensive support units. ...are you trolling here or do you actually believe that counting the buildings is equivalent? Here's a hint, check the build times on those structures, and also you can forget the orbital command for that list because it isn't required for any tech, but if you're including it for mineral cost than add Queens for Zerg which renders it moot. Show me one professional game where a standard Zerg build got out Vipers at anywhere near the same timeframe Terran got Medivacs. This is a ridiculous argument, bordering on childishly stupid. Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 10:22 KR_4EVR wrote:
I will just say one more thing.
Watching Maru vs. sOs, I was truly impressed by both players every single game for 5 games. It was fun to watch.
Watching Rogue v. Classic, there was not one single "wow" moment in four whole games. Not the kind of thing that is going to keep SCII fanbase excited. So you missed the entirety of game 3 when Rogue brilliantly outplayed him with feints, multiple backstabs, zergling run-arounds and drops in a long macro slugfest? Because that was genius. Stop being such a whiner.
Comparing game 3 to HOTS late game PvZ, How much have changed to the first time viewer? For me the "boring" game that ends quickly was the wtfow moments. The games just seemed surreal.
|
On March 06 2018 10:19 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 09:41 SmileZerg wrote:
Edit: Also calling a Starport Tier 3 is LAUGHABLE, it's Tier 2 at most, more like Tier 1.75, considering that a Spire is T2 and there is absolutely no way to get one of those out before even Starport + Research tech such as Cloak Banshees. Count how much you absolutely have to build to reach Vipers: Spawning pool, extractor, Lair, Infestation Pit, Hive. Count how much you have to build to reach medivacs: supply depot, barracks, refinery, orbital command, factory, starport. Oh, wait, that's the same amount.... But guess what? Terran doesn't have a 'tier' tech structure. I just was bringing up the building order for comparison. Yes, medivacs are comparable to vipers in tech pathing. They're expensive support units.
I dont know what game you re playing, it surely is not SC2, but i dont even think it s an RTS. Must be some turn based card game im guessing, inspired by the starship troopers movie.
You balance whine based on counting the buildings needed for drop tech. Droplords in ZvT are barely viable, havent seen anyone flat-out lose to early lingdrops past platinum, it has some lategame use - more for spreading the Terran thin and forcing mistakes than actually killing shit.
Whereas medevac drops are staple in every single TvZ with bio, and in many mech games as well.
Cant decide if you re a blatant troll, a flame-baiter or someone who s totally detached from reality.
|
Why are you even debating zerg drops in TvZ, the whole problem with Zerg drops before lair is it forces any macro protoss into stargate every single game.
|
This was a great final. I watched it live at Katowice in Spodek Arena. Sure, it was a 4:0 stomp, but Rogue played that out of his mind, when in the same time Classic made very strange and bad choices. Two examples:
Rogue- neither Tasteless or Artosis seem to notice the genius play by Rogue in game 3 (that macro game), when he send a Changeling (which was changed in zealot already) and he placed him in Classic's wall at natural. It was so brilliant- Classic saw this and thought that his wall is sealed. Then Rogue timed his ling runby with that changeling expiration. I was amazed by this idea.- Something only rogue could invent.
Classic- Game 4. Rogue was so freaking behind, after that failed agression, that whatever Classic builds- Rogue's dead. Instead Classic chooses to build mass oracles- the only thing that couldn't kill Rogue. I mean...WTF? If Classic made mass adepts, zealots with charge, immortals, anything...It was so baaaad play, i couldn't even imagine.
Those are two examples of how these two players aproached to this series. Classic was drastically off in the finals. For example, I was waiting for Classic to use his Chargelots,Waprism,Immortal,Archonpush which was used to kill Serral 3 times in a row. It never happened, and I was shocked why, as it seemed impossible for Zerg to defend. In the other hand, ZvP is the best Rogue's matchup and he was ready for this 100%.
So, this whole discussion about balance, based on one tournament where for example soO was stomped by Harstem. BY HARSTEM. SOO. Is so biased...The whole thing with comparing getting Vipers by Zerg with getting Medivacks by Terran is beyond stupid. How is it even comparable?
Overlord drops are perfectly fine. It is easy for Protoss to counter that, with one phoenix or awerness. The problem is that Protosses used to play greedy and in the new iteration of LOTV it can be punished even by Zerg. I think it's healthy. If u move overlord drops to Lair Tech it would be making them useless. The thing with overlord drops is, that it's the only option to harass protoss in early game, and the only way to slow protoss down- as even knowing that it is an option demands from Protoss to be careful. Just as waprism, early Dark Shrine, Oracle, or proxy builds force Zerg to scout, be careful and aware.
For all u guys that are waiting for Terran to come back. I think that in next few weeks, every Terran will make mass Ravens. It's just the beginning of it. This new antiarmour missile combined with Auto Turret being restored, is very, very strong. In some cases it's more imba that old Seeker Missile- maybe it deals less damage, but it's faster- We all saw as Solar tried to avoid those hits from Maru and failed hard. U can't outmicro them. That - 3 to armour is soooo powerful. Everything under this spell dies so fast it's not even funny. Mark my words- it's only the beginning of Terran domination with this unit. I think it must be toned down a lil bit, becuase the problem with that spell is that it's too spammable.
|
Vs oracle as zerg, i'm forced to build 125x3=375 for spores at 3:30, but Protoss whine they lose vs all-in while they could hold it with 3 SB=300mineral like Classic did.
|
On March 06 2018 05:59 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2018 22:53 DSh1 wrote:On March 05 2018 22:25 D-light wrote:On March 05 2018 12:35 Snarosc wrote:On March 05 2018 12:04 Zzoram wrote:
Anyone else notice how Rogue struggled to hold that massive trophy? It looked like it was too heavy for him to hold for long. The Katowice vice-president who brought it also struggled to lift it. Have you just seen the size of that trophy ? When it was next to Rogue or when he tried to lift it, it covered all of his upper body from his waist to his head. That thing is so massive I wouldn't be surprised if it's weighing 15-20kg. Try lifting that above your head without struggling when you don't work out. So yeah, getting a good grip of it and lifting it might definitely be a bit difficult for quite a few. Would have been nice to see Zest lifting it with one hand :D He looks damn good with it + Show Spoiler +
Is that acutally the same trophy?
Edit: From the picture it looks like Zest had a different trophy. So maybe his is lighter :D?
|
congratz to rogue, very well deserved <3 <3 <3
and to all the balance whiners: there is nothing wrong with balance, stop whining unless you have scientific proof, until then focus on developing new strategies.
|
On March 06 2018 19:46 inken wrote:
congratz to rogue, very well deserved <3 <3 <3
and to all the balance whiners: there is nothing wrong with balance, stop whining unless you have scientific proof, until then focus on developing new strategies.
Scienttific proof....imo tournament statistics are proof enough. Since 4.0 no terran won a big tournament or even reached the final of one. A Zerg won blizzcon and Zerg won every big tournament since than except for HSC which was won by toss. These are simple facts that can't be denied. I think without some fix Terran will continue to struggle in this patch.
Maru showed how mighty the raven can be, but you cant win whole tournaments on the back of 1 unit because enemies will just focus on killing it.
|
On March 06 2018 21:49 spenzzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 19:46 inken wrote:
congratz to rogue, very well deserved <3 <3 <3
and to all the balance whiners: there is nothing wrong with balance, stop whining unless you have scientific proof, until then focus on developing new strategies. Scienttific proof....imo tournament statistics are proof enough. Since 4.0 no terran won a big tournament or even reached the final of one. A Zerg won blizzcon and Zerg won every big tournament since than except for HSC which was won by toss. These are simple facts that can't be denied. I think without some fix Terran will continue to struggle in this patch. Maru showed how mighty the raven can be, but you cant win whole tournaments on the back of 1 unit because enemies will just focus on killing it.
just a few tournament finals are such a small sample size that doesn't prove anything. it may very well be that terrans win the next few tournaments. check out the latest balance report on aligulac: as for january 2018 both tvp and tvz show a 50% winrate (terran even slightly favored). also check out the whole sc2 tournament history: protoss and zerg also had their dry phases.
|
On March 06 2018 23:41 inken wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 21:49 spenzzer wrote:On March 06 2018 19:46 inken wrote:
congratz to rogue, very well deserved <3 <3 <3
and to all the balance whiners: there is nothing wrong with balance, stop whining unless you have scientific proof, until then focus on developing new strategies. Scienttific proof....imo tournament statistics are proof enough. Since 4.0 no terran won a big tournament or even reached the final of one. A Zerg won blizzcon and Zerg won every big tournament since than except for HSC which was won by toss. These are simple facts that can't be denied. I think without some fix Terran will continue to struggle in this patch. Maru showed how mighty the raven can be, but you cant win whole tournaments on the back of 1 unit because enemies will just focus on killing it. just a few tournament finals are such a small sample size that doesn't prove anything. it may very well be that terrans win the next few tournaments. check out the latest balance report on aligulac: as for january 2018 both tvp and tvz show a 50% winrate (terran even slightly favored). also check out the whole sc2 tournament history: protoss and zerg also had their dry phases.
I think people have been saying this for what.... two years? If you throw out significant imbalance such as Byun reapers, you have maybe 1 tourney or 2 with a Terran victor? TY at IEM comes to mind. Possibly Innovation's latest GSL.
I'll definitely hold my breath for these "next few tournaments" where you think Terran will suddenly win consistently.
|
Both TY and Maru blew a 2-0 lead against Rogue. Does the balance suddenly favor the other race when Terran player gets the match point? Had Serral and Rogue switched places in the bracket, we would have had a TVZ finals most likely.
Something that has a 6% chance happening happened? Woah there must be something wrong.
I am sure the next time Innovation goes back to play LoL, people will whine about how the best player suddenly playing bad means Terrans are nerfed too much. I find balance whining logic amazing, almost always.
|
Rogue played awesome.
I would like to see a small change for the ultra-late game in PvZ, breaking the Zerg camping behind 50+ spores looks hard. It is not fun when a player is on the clock and the other is not.
|
On March 07 2018 02:54 gingerfluffmuff wrote:
Rogue played awesome.
I would like to see a small change for the ultra-late game in PvZ, breaking the Zerg camping behind 50+ spores looks hard. It is not fun when a player is on the clock and the other is not.
The core zerg army at that point is so immobile though. Building all those spores isn't cheap either. The main reason Rogue looked unbreakable at the end is because he leveraged his midgame advantage to control the map. If they entered the lategame on an even footing, Rogue's bases would have been much more vulnerable, giving Classic opportunities to force Rogue to react.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://dqrt72khb0whk.cloudfront.net/uploads/image/file/1221/cropped_IMG_9695.jpg?ts=1426889488)
