After what seemed an eternity, StarCraft II returned to Korea with Group A of 2018 GSL Season 1. INnoVation and Creator were first up, with Solar and Leenock taking the stage right after, each of them seeking to become one of the first two to reach the Round of 16.
Creator’s oracles failed to do any economic damage in both games, allowing INnoVation space to hit a bio/mine and marauder heavy timing in games one and two respectively. Stasis wards delayed his attacks, but they did nothing to prevent him from rolling over Creator 2-0.
Leenock’s mutalisks closed out game one after Solar took a faster third, only to fall behind in the ling/bane skirmish. Solar appeared to have held Leenock’s 13/12 in game two, but Solar’s queens left the main base ramp, allowing Leenock to run into the main and take the game.
With his ravager/ling all in falling flat in game one, Leenock opted to play a more straightforward hydra/bane style on Abyssal Reef. INnoVation's constant waves of bio/tank off four bases eventually whittled down Leenock's defenses, however, earning him a spot in the Round of 16.
Creator took a 1-0 lead in the face of Solar’s brood lords, but dropped the series. His archon drops failed to prevent Solar from spilling over him with roaches on Odyssey, while colossi and blink stalkers did him little good against a seemingly infinite number of banelings on Blackpink.
Leenock opened three hatch before pool in both games against Solar. He made a few mutalisks in game one, but it was superior roach production that put up 1-0. Game two was far quicker, with Leenock overwhelming Solar with zerglings and banelings en route to a Round of 16 berth
Besides INnoVation, they all looked out of shape to me. Is it because of the freshness of the patch or because of a lack of investment/practice ? That I don't know.
On January 07 2018 02:38 Serimek wrote: Besides INnoVation, they all looked out of shape to me. Is it because of the freshness of the patch or because of a lack of investment/practice ? That I don't know.
Nah, this group sucked. INnoVation and 3 weak players.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
On January 07 2018 02:38 Serimek wrote: Besides INnoVation, they all looked out of shape to me. Is it because of the freshness of the patch or because of a lack of investment/practice ? That I don't know.
Only Solar looked below his usual level. Creator performed as I'd expect, Leenock did better than normal, and Inno was always gonna win this group
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
Isn't that fine though? Blizzard's intention when nerfing the widow mine was to make it so mine drops didn't singlehandedly end the game as they did from time to time, and to give more latitude to Protoss openings so that they aren't all required to involve fast robos or fold to mines. Not to "nerf them out of the game". If the widow mine finds a different healthier role in the match-up that's a good thing.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
Isn't that fine though? Blizzard's intention when nerfing the widow mine was to make it so mine drops didn't singlehandedly end the game as they did from time to time, and to give more latitude to Protoss openings so that they aren't all required to involve fast robos or fold to mines. Not to "nerf them out of the game". If the widow mine finds a different healthier role in the match-up that's a good thing.
It is fine. I'm simply responding to words from terrans themselves.
Pokebunny retired because bio play wasn't perceived as viable anymore. On these very forums Major went on a tantrum about how the MSC removal was a "minor change" yet the mine nerf removed it from the game. People took TYs balance whine satire as truth. The gsl season preview was literally several paragraphs of whining. Terrans have had the nerve to suggest additional buffs to the mine and marauder.
The terran mid game is still as strong as it has always been. I'm totally ok with that. It's just that it's time for the tears to dry up and for them to recognize that their predictions of doom were completely unfounded.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
Isn't that fine though? Blizzard's intention when nerfing the widow mine was to make it so mine drops didn't singlehandedly end the game as they did from time to time, and to give more latitude to Protoss openings so that they aren't all required to involve fast robos or fold to mines. Not to "nerf them out of the game". If the widow mine finds a different healthier role in the match-up that's a good thing.
It is fine. I'm simply responding to words from terrans themselves.
Pokebunny retired because bio play wasn't perceived as viable anymore. On these very forums Major went on a tantrum about how the MSC removal was a "minor change" yet the mine nerf removed it from the game. People took TYs balance whine satire as truth. The gsl season preview was literally several paragraphs of whining. Terrans have had the nerve to suggest additional buffs to the mine and marauder.
The terran mid game is still as strong as it has always been. I'm totally ok with that. It's just that it's time for the tears to dry up and for them to recognize that their predictions of doom where completely unfounded.
Regardless of the current state of the balance or meta, it's safe to say that a single series between Creator and Inno is a terrible sample size from which to draw any sort of meaningful conclusion.
Also, the tone of your post sounds remarkably petty to me. Not to mention presumptuous. The balance team will be the judge of balance, and the only thing grandiloquent pronouncements like yours will do is make yourself look even more foolish if the balance team disagrees.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
Isn't that fine though? Blizzard's intention when nerfing the widow mine was to make it so mine drops didn't singlehandedly end the game as they did from time to time, and to give more latitude to Protoss openings so that they aren't all required to involve fast robos or fold to mines. Not to "nerf them out of the game". If the widow mine finds a different healthier role in the match-up that's a good thing.
It is fine. I'm simply responding to words from terrans themselves.
Pokebunny retired because bio play wasn't perceived as viable anymore. On these very forums Major went on a tantrum about how the MSC removal was a "minor change" yet the mine nerf removed it from the game. People took TYs balance whine satire as truth. The gsl season preview was literally several paragraphs of whining. Terrans have had the nerve to suggest additional buffs to the mine and marauder.
The terran mid game is still as strong as it has always been. I'm totally ok with that. It's just that it's time for the tears to dry up and for them to recognize that their predictions of doom where completely unfounded.
Terran early game is still quite weakened, so a marauder buff sounds reasonable to me especially since it also helps the other match-ups, but maybe this isn't the thread for this.
On January 07 2018 02:43 LTCM wrote: Mine is stronger than ever. Stronger than pre 4.0 for sure.
When you're INnoVation, sure.
Being innovation has nothing to do with it. The new mines do the same damage as before and now build ridiculously fast. Like insanely fast. Blizzard is going to be forced to decrease their hp.
Hardly. Their role in the game has shifted quite a bit especially in TvP (and thank god for that. Widow mines and their counterpart the oracle were the most aggravating part of TvP so it's nice to see them both nerfed), but I wouldn't consider them better overall by any means. They still cost the same and are easier to clean up.
For a unit that was "nerfed out of the game", we certainly have seen a lot of them at all levels of pro play. That much is undeniable.
The meta will settle at higher mine and marauder counts instead of marines. Marauders now crap on colossus so hard.
Isn't that fine though? Blizzard's intention when nerfing the widow mine was to make it so mine drops didn't singlehandedly end the game as they did from time to time, and to give more latitude to Protoss openings so that they aren't all required to involve fast robos or fold to mines. Not to "nerf them out of the game". If the widow mine finds a different healthier role in the match-up that's a good thing.
It is fine. I'm simply responding to words from terrans themselves.
Pokebunny retired because bio play wasn't perceived as viable anymore. On these very forums Major went on a tantrum about how the MSC removal was a "minor change" yet the mine nerf removed it from the game. People took TYs balance whine satire as truth. The gsl season preview was literally several paragraphs of whining. Terrans have had the nerve to suggest additional buffs to the mine and marauder.
The terran mid game is still as strong as it has always been. I'm totally ok with that. It's just that it's time for the tears to dry up and for them to recognize that their predictions of doom where completely unfounded.
Regardless of the current state of the balance or meta, it's safe to say that a single series between Creator and Inno is a terrible sample size from which to draw any sort of meaningful conclusion.
Also, the tone of your post sounds remarkably petty to me. Not to mention presumptuous. The balance team will be the judge of balance, and the only thing grandiloquent pronouncements like yours will do is make yourself look even more foolish if the balance team disagrees.
I made no statements concerning the overall state of balance. I specifically said that inno was the better player and thus the games made little difference on balance (edit: little difference on our understanding of balance). I'm merely pointing out that:
1) We've been told time and time again that the widow mine was severely nerfed and was now trash. 2) We have seen lots and lots of widow mines produced at all levels of pro play. 3) Terrans have called for FURTHER buffs to the mine.
EPT
INnoVation and 
Creator were first up, with 
Solar and 
2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1
