EPTStarCraft II Balance Update -- November 28, 2017 - Page 2
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jedi1982
United States172 Posts
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tritonice
United States119 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On November 30 2017 01:42 tritonice wrote: What affect does changing the oracle from normal damage to spell damage have? I know units damage differently based on armor, light, etc. but the impact of this change is unclear to me. Thanks. spell damage always does the same no matter the unit type or armor upgrades etc edit: well it is a spell that does bonus dmg to light tho lol. ignores armor but not armor type | ||
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TheWildShooter
79 Posts
Increase build time from 26.4 to 30.7 seconds. There is mistake in the balance update description. Oracle build time has been since HotS 50 Blizzard seconds or approximately 36 real seconds. In the new patch Oracle build time is 60 Blizzard seconds or approximately 43 real seconds. I really don't understand where they got these numbers from. | ||
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Doink
75 Posts
On November 29 2017 23:53 ReachTheSky wrote: Finally, a real infestor nerf after 6-7 years, that shit was ridiculous. You know that Fungal when burrowed was introduced not too long ago right? You also know that Fungal doesn't stun anymore right? Not meant as a flame, just fyi. | ||
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coolmiyo
51 Posts
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
"About the cyclone/cyclone upgrade The cyclone can't find its role in the game. - it's too expensive/long to produce to be a general purposed mech footman - it's too unreliable and lacks micro potential to be an anti ground damage dealer - it's anti air damage is too low, and the lockdown is too unreliable (because of the manual activation and the cooldown) to be an anti air unit Lowering the upgrade price isn't a bad move, but the stats and behaviour of the unit are wrong to fit any role mech needs. The unit needs to be reworked. I'd suggest making the cyclone a reliable general purpose mech footman that can assume basic anti air function, but the numbers and the clumsiness of the unit should be reworked. " | ||
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Duckman
United States158 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
If Neural or Pathogen came default free, or fungal got a bit of vs armour damage back, or could only be burrow cast from like 5 range (but still didn't have to unburrow everytime to cast) then I think it'd be in a great place, but the full combination nerf seems a bit much. Also it's nice that the Terran niche mech upgrades are a lot more accessible, especially with how fast LotV is by the time you get most of those (if you invest in them at all), their phase of real strength and usability is kinda diminished. But mostly good changes which is nice to see. | ||
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Snakestyle1
43 Posts
It feels like late game tvz bio is a lot more fair now. Once theres a lot of liberators and ghosts, it becomes really really hard to fungal the ghosts. Late game ZvT is no longer free win and I actually have to try now. Good change for that matchup's late game but at the top pro level, ghost libs might end up too strong eventually. What im truly concerned about, is strengt of late game skytoss seems to be back to before the big patch but also... Infestors are no longer that good... Zerg's ideal comp are back to a-move units only... Hydra bane for the rest of our life or what? Nothing else is viable against protoss, even against terran. It would be nice to have units that scale with skills and micro as much as the other races.. Also, is it me or roach ravager is completely unviable in both ZvP and ZvT? They seem really bad in those matchup. Whats funny, is that those 2 units are actually the 2 best units in ZvZ.. Why is that? Is zerg lacking ground anti armored unit or anti armor splash? Why are roach ravagers soo bad in zvt and zvp, but so good in zvz? | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
I think a slight Crono boost nerf and a Carrier nerf would be a good next step. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On November 30 2017 02:22 jpg06051992 wrote: This patch is moving pretty much in all of the right directions but I'm gonna have to agree with this poster on what he said about the Cyclone, it's been undergoing so many changes patch after patch after patch is' clearly obvious the design sucks and the balance team has no clue what to be done with them. "About the cyclone/cyclone upgrade The cyclone can't find its role in the game. - it's too expensive/long to produce to be a general purposed mech footman - it's too unreliable and lacks micro potential to be an anti ground damage dealer - it's anti air damage is too low, and the lockdown is too unreliable (because of the manual activation and the cooldown) to be an anti air unit Lowering the upgrade price isn't a bad move, but the stats and behaviour of the unit are wrong to fit any role mech needs. The unit needs to be reworked. I'd suggest making the cyclone a reliable general purpose mech footman that can assume basic anti air function, but the numbers and the clumsiness of the unit should be reworked. " I forgot to include something when i wrote that. The wacky thing with the cyclone is that it's supposed to be a general purpose mech footman, but it also needs to have good anti air because of the weird state of terran anti air. The reason why the raven was massed was because seeker+turrets was the most reliable late game terran anti air. Excluding marines, mines, and thors versus mutas, terran anti air is now extremely bad past the early game : - vikings are probably the worst air superiority fighters (low HP, bad manoeuvrability, only decent DPS, extremely suceptible to AoE spells : it's only perk is its range). - ravens don't help much now (someone made a thread about how ravens are actually not that great vs protoss capital ships) - liberators are bad unless you got 20 of them - thors are only good against muta. It actually performs poorly against capital ships or liberators The only exception is the BC. So from the marine/early vikings, terran anti air is really bad until you can get BCs. So the cyclone wants to be a mech footman, but it also wants to solve the anti air issues of terran that are emphazised with mech play because you don't have reliable early game anti air like bio. Terran needs an anti air overhaul. The cyclone will then be able to take its place as a reliable mech footman, while leaving the real anti air job to other units. And if i were to identify is that terran anti air is split into a lot of different units that overlap. The liberator's AA is overlapping with the thor's AA, the viking's AA is overlapping with the secondary thor's AA and the upgraded cyclone lock. If those functions were split into : - reliable close range AA - anti armored AA - long range anti massive AA - AoE AA And distributed to the liberator, the cyclone, the thor and the viking, terran anti air could be much better. I know this rant probably isn't well organised but i feel like that's the main issue affecting terran right now. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 30 2017 02:34 Duckman wrote: Am I wrong that this is a severe nerf to early game Oracle harass? Obviously the intention was to eliminate the ~3 minute oracle timing, but doesn't this mean that an Oracle now 3-shots a worker instead of 2-shots? Seems like early stargate strategies are no longer viable, with Oracle being relegated to a mid/late-game utility caster role instead. Stargate openings are probably dead in PvT. They will probably still exist in PvZ but they'll be weaker since they'll hit later and getting damage at the pro level was already often quite dicey. | ||
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Jacenoob
299 Posts
On November 30 2017 02:46 Snakestyle1 wrote: What im truly concerned about, is strengt of late game skytoss seems to be back to before the big patch but also... Yeah, that is a big concern with the Infestor nerf. But on the other hand the Oracle and Shield Battery nerf will help Zerg to get into a better economic position in the late game. . On November 30 2017 02:46 Snakestyle1 wrote: Also, is it me or roach ravager is completely unviable in both ZvP and ZvT? They seem really bad in those matchup. Whats funny, is that those 2 units are actually the 2 best units in ZvZ.. I am really glad about that. Roach Ravager is the most boring playstyle to watch in ZvP and ZvT, I will not miss it. Everything about that playstyle is boring so as long Blizzard finds a fair balance I am glad it got replaced. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On November 30 2017 03:08 Boggyb wrote: Stargate openings are probably dead in PvT. They will probably still exist in PvZ but they'll be weaker since they'll hit later and getting damage at the pro level was already often quite dicey. They'll definitely be used less immediately but if terrans start getting greedy and changing their builds drastically because they assume there'll never be oracles anymore, they could be punished for it. If there's nothing protecting the scv's, 3 hits to kill an scv is still good enough to be worth it. Plus stasis and revelation are the same, so after the initial harass the value is the same as it is now. Oracle opening goes from being something that can be done pretty safely every game back to a surprise opening to mix in once in a while if you feel your opponent might be greedy. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 30 2017 02:59 MockHamill wrote: I agree with the changes, all of them seem reasonable. Terran is still a bit weak overall though. I think a slight Crono boost nerf and a Carrier nerf would be a good next step. Chrono needs a redo, you cannot nerf the current version. It should be a longer boost for less. Shield batteries need a redo too, currently in my league they're too OP in the lategame. I mean, have you tried sniping a Mothership with several batteries backing her up?  And I have no idea how they're gonna do that because they're so much needed in the early game. Yeah, band aid race fighting back when you try to remove bandaids | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
A suggestion : make bio great again. Begin with bringing back the old maraudeur. Maybe fast up bio opening : in today SC2 tempo, bio is soooo long to produce, stim/shield/+1/add-ons and 3 rax and medivacs, bio utterly sux at beginning (ie before these ups). Everything was accelerated in SC2, except bio production set-up. Anayway the main force of mech today is on openings, they are so much better than bio-ones, with more pressures and less downtime (bio transitioning after 1/11) I guess we could combine stim and shield in one upgrade (or even marines having shield without upgrade), or lower stim duration, etc. There are a lot of ways to play around. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On November 30 2017 02:59 MockHamill wrote: I agree with the changes, all of them seem reasonable. Terran is still a bit weak overall though. I think a slight Crono boost nerf and a Carrier nerf would be a good next step. Chronoboost is fine, shield batteries need something to not make them infinitely scale able (mass turtle shield battery doing nothing but shielding carriers and mothership is pretty much what the FUCK retarded) but that is an easy fix such as, (only 1 shield battery may heal 1 unit at a time or something similar) Carriers are ludicrously strong at the moment, they shred through even +3 armor Corruptors very easily and the fungal nerfs are only going to exaggerate the problem. Not sure why Protoss has to have such an untouchable end game and such a fragile early game, it's a long running issue with the race has a whole. | ||
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