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StarCraft II Balance Update -- November 28, 2017

Forum Index > SC2 General
226 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1904 Posts
November 29 2017 13:14 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


In recent weeks, we've been discussing potential changes to make after the recent major design overhaul to the game. Today, we are implementing a balance update in all regions to put the following changes into effect. Thank you for all your feedback in helping us develop these updates. We will continue to monitor the game after these changes are in effect, and welcome your feedback.

Zerg

  • Infestors
    • Can no longer cast Fungal Growth while burrowed.
    • Fungal Growth radius reduced from 2.5 to 2.25.
    • Infested Terran cast range reduced from 9 to 7.

  • Overlord and Corruptors will respond more quickly to morph commands.


Protoss

  • Oracle
    • Pulsar Beam
      • Damage reduced from 15 (+10 Light) to 15 (+7 Light).
      • Pulsar Beam damage type changed from normal to spell damage.

    • Increase build time from 26.4 to 30.7 seconds.

  • Shield Battery cost increased from 75 Minerals to 100 Minerals.


Terran

  • Ghost's Steady Targeting will return 100% energy when interrupted.
  • Smart Servos cost reduced from 150 Minerals / 150 Vespene Gas to 100/100.
  • Rapid Fire Launchers cost reduced from 150/150 to 75/75.
  • Ghost cost changed from 200/100 to 150/125.
  • Drilling Claws cost reduced from 150/150 to 75/75.


If you're interested in the StarCraft II Balance Team's reasoning behind each our changes, take a look through some of the recent Community Feedback Updates for more information!

As always, we appreciate all the feedback we’ve received from the community. Your feedback and playtesting helped shape this update, and we hope you’ll continue to participate in future balance discussions. Until next time, we hope you enjoy these changes!
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... einmal mit Profis spielen!
Thomasmarkle
Profile Joined June 2011
United States85 Posts
November 29 2017 13:26 GMT
#2
Seems reasonable overall
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
November 29 2017 13:45 GMT
#3
Lol they could just remove infestor completely from the game. At least remove the upgrade requirement for the neural for god sake.
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 13:48:08
November 29 2017 13:47 GMT
#4
This is the most enjoyable sc2 has been for me since LotV released. I play random and every race has many different styles open to them. Loving this patch - the balance for me is spot on.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 14:13:33
November 29 2017 14:04 GMT
#5
About the ghost

Really love the ghost cost change. It's a pivotal change for ghost viability.

It seems that opening ghosts for mech play can be awesome too. Early hellbat/medivacs/ghosts pushes with ghosts sniping queens can deal a lot of damage (even if the zerg built 4-5 roaches since the snipe will oneshot them).

Also, ghosts are actually extraordinary to defend early game TvP agression. Oracles and phenixes are very suceptible to EMP. DTs can also be EMPed if you didn't get turrets in time. Sentry cheeses forcefielding bunkers can be countered, and blink allins or immortal allins can be threatened by a center-mass EMP.

Playing mech I feel like building 3 to 5 ghosts early game TvP and coupling them with hellion play in TvZ before transitionning into heavy mech production could do wonders.

About the mine

Making drilling claws cheaper is the wrong move since mines won't be reliable until you get the upgrade. It'll just make "carpet bombing a mineral line with drilling claws mines from a boosted medivac" easier.

I hate the reveal on the mine since it makes the mine un-usable as a MINE. Like positionning it on a runby path to scout and thin out enemy runbies.

Overall the mine should either reverted back but made unable to target workers, or be revealed when reloading and have its impact damage lowered but only cost 1 supply, 50/25 and be faster to produce.

About the cyclone/cyclone upgrade

The cyclone can't find its role in the game.
- it's too expensive/long to produce to be a general purposed mech footman
- it's too unreliable and lacks micro potential to be an anti ground damage dealer
- it's anti air damage is too low, and the lockdown is too unreliable (because of the manual activation and the cooldown) to be an anti air unit

Lowering the upgrade price isn't a bad move, but the stats and behaviour of the unit are wrong to fit any role mech needs.
The unit needs to be reworked. I'd suggest making the cyclone a reliable general purpose mech footman that can assume basic anti air function, but the numbers and the clumsiness of the unit should be reworked.

About the servos upgrade

The upgrade should allow units to transform while moving to be less clumsy, not be faster.
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
November 29 2017 14:06 GMT
#6
On November 29 2017 23:04 JackONeill wrote:
Really love the ghost cost change. It's a pivotal change for ghost viability.

It seems that opening ghosts for mech play can be awesome too. Early hellbat/medivacs/ghosts pushes with ghosts sniping queens can deal a lot of damage (even if the zerg built 4-5 roaches since the snipe will oneshot them).

Also, ghosts are actually extraordinary to defend early game TvP agression. Oracles and phenixes are very suceptible to EMP. DTs can also be EMPed if you didn't get turrets in time. Sentry cheeses forcefielding bunkers can be countered, and blink allins or immortal allins can be threatened by a center-mass EMP.

Playing mech I feel like building 3 to 5 ghosts early game TvP and coupling them with hellion play in TvZ before transitionning into heavy mech production could do wonders.


I Think this is a good approach, the cost of ghosts is so good, that their abilities earlier will play out very well against P.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 29 2017 14:17 GMT
#7
Ghost cost change long overdue. It will really help out lategame TvP.

Good change infestor fungal.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
November 29 2017 14:52 GMT
#8
Do you guys think that with the Ghost changes, that we're going to see Ghost openings again?

Seems like opening Cyclones is the way to go currently (especially with the upgrade cost reduction), so I don't really know.
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
November 29 2017 14:53 GMT
#9
Finally, a real infestor nerf after 6-7 years, that shit was ridiculous.
TL+ Member
hoodaloo
Profile Joined November 2017
1 Post
November 29 2017 15:01 GMT
#10
Ghost change, as with the stealth at cost of starting energy, is a double-edged sword. Early ghost builds are difficult due to the gas requirements, not minerals, especially in bio-builds that essentially require swift stim research.

If the goal of this was to encourage early ghost play as the patch notes implied previously, these changes do little more than implying ghosts are better without actually improving them at all.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
November 29 2017 15:02 GMT
#11
I cant recall such a pro terran patch like this before
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Jimmon
Profile Joined May 2011
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 15:03:48
November 29 2017 15:03 GMT
#12
Wow. So... nerf Protoss and Zerg but buff terran? Thanks Blizzard.

These changes don't address the real issues. You've got to be kidding about the cyclone change. Really. You're telling me a ghost is worth less than a HT, AND IT SPAWNS WITH CLOAK ALREADY?

Give us Khadrian Amulet back. This is ludacris. Atleast reduce cost and increase energy of HT.

Take away MSC but nerf the shield too?

I mean come on.
I love LOveRH
Sound1
Profile Joined August 2016
France93 Posts
November 29 2017 15:09 GMT
#13
On November 29 2017 23:04 JackONeill wrote:
About the mine

Making drilling claws cheaper is the wrong move since mines won't be reliable until you get the upgrade. It'll just make "carpet bombing a mineral line with drilling claws mines from a boosted medivac" easier.

I hate the reveal on the mine since it makes the mine un-usable as a MINE. Like positionning it on a runby path to scout and thin out enemy runbies.

Overall the mine should either reverted back but made unable to target workers, or be revealed when reloading and have its impact damage lowered but only cost 1 supply, 50/25 and be faster to produce.


Yep

IMO , definitly they could remove WM from the game, but I've already observed Blizz like to maintain some useless units. Still don't know why.

Start of HOTS miss me

Otherwise, I can not agree more with you about cyclone. A little bit like a swiss knife, able to do everything but not good enough. At least, proxy cyclone at my level still deadly if it is not spoted.
Startale Sound Fan boy Forever !
waiting2Bbanned
Profile Joined November 2015
United States154 Posts
November 29 2017 15:11 GMT
#14
terran whining works!
always!!



User was warned for this post
"If you are going to break the law, do it with two thousand people.. and Mozart." - Howard Zinn
Pasildan
Profile Joined February 2011
Chile10 Posts
November 29 2017 15:15 GMT
#15
Blizzard entertainment did a good job at actually taking care of balance much faster than I thought.
Now next step must be patching the game each 3-4 weeks just like designers do in league of legends instead of wasting time and waiting for like 4-5 months just like I remember in heart of the swarm ages and even more not waiting like 1 year to buff anything barely.

I actually would like to know your opinion David J.C "Avilo" Blowe in this matter since this is a 100% buff to terran race, something that I never saw being made in 7 years this videogame has.

This balance patch should be a reason to give less excuses when you get fucking outplayed regularly.
Jacenoob
Profile Joined August 2014
299 Posts
November 29 2017 15:20 GMT
#16
It wasn't Terran whining, Terran was clearly underpowered so these changes seem reasonable. I am sure this will make tournaments more enjoyable to watch because it was really annoying to just always see the Terran lose in recent tournaments.
BigRedDog
Profile Joined May 2012
461 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-29 15:24:43
November 29 2017 15:24 GMT
#17
Terran has been under power since 4.0. Liberators cannot see beyond target circle, widow mines appear after firing and removing hsm from raven. The 'buff' for Terran is so minor in this patch.

Fyi,
I'm ain't a Terran player. I play zerg.
Big Red Dog!
Snarosc
Profile Joined January 2016
France66 Posts
November 29 2017 15:48 GMT
#18
On November 30 2017 00:20 Jacenoob wrote:
It wasn't Terran whining, Terran was clearly underpowered so these changes seem reasonable. I am sure this will make tournaments more enjoyable to watch because it was really annoying to just always see the Terran lose in recent tournaments.


Of course it was Terran whining, what else was it ?

Terran was "clearly underpowered" ? Based on what ? Statistics ? We didn't have any tournaments in the last 2 weeks, because YES, the patch has just been live for 2 weeks.

So what data are you using to back your claim ? None.


And about the widow mine, get over it for real.
Most of the widow mine damage has ALWAYS been done on its first shot, because of it being cloaked and the player not expecting it to be there. So tell me, how has that been changed with this patch ? How is it now worthless ?

The only thing it REALLY changes is its game ending ability which is ridiculous. Imagine if you go for a double mine drop against a Protoss opening twilight, that's just gg. You burrow a single mine in the main and in the natural and the amount of damage, or at least the amount of time the workers spend non mining, is game ending.

The change that was made won't stop you from demolishing the two mineral lines if the enemy doesnt react, it just allows him to clean the mines and pursue the game from behind.

Blizzard did right with this change, just remember the widow mine is a ridiculously cheap unit (75/25) that :
1) should never be a game ending unit.
2) Will almost always repays its cost with its first shot, for it being a surprise.


You're just making this nerf sound way bigger than it really is.
Stats is the best player of LotV.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
November 29 2017 15:50 GMT
#19
Very sensible IMO.

I do think though that the cyclone AA is a big gimmick and the Thor is to slow and expensive to be an AA option; so mech still is suffering from poor design here. I'm not going to say that Protoss air is to strong, but playing mech against it feels like i have a bunch of options that are all crap: poor cyclons, poor mobility thors, extremely inefficient viking when stormed. Feels like a game of luck where you just throw shit at the wall and hope something sticks. I'm not saying i want a hard counter, but a reliable option that will give the advantage to the one that controls better.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
November 29 2017 15:53 GMT
#20
They had to buff zerg anyway
TL+ Member
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