EPTherO: The Man Behind the Smile - Rank 5 - Road to BlizzCon…
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:19 sharkie wrote: Zest and clean macro player in the same sentence. I am dieing of laughter right now That's what he was for most of his career. Silly to deny it. The herO hate is completely unwarranted though. He plays a brand of Protoss that's very aggressive and often aims to kill people early - so what? That's a brilliant skill to have. And it's not like he can't do the standard thing either, although there are players that are better suited to it. Besides, if people don't like how Protoss wins in LotV, perhaps they should be asking for viable alternatives. But they really haven't been there in LotV. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:23 Mun_Su wrote: People can't get over the fact that herO's playstile is one of the least likeable ever so they bring up the race argument. Well that doesn't work. (even I, who like a lot less protoss than Zerg and Terran, can like protoss like Classic, Rain, Feast, or Dear) Also Zest is the ghost of his former self His style may not be likable to you but don't assume everyone else thinks the same way. Also, herO simply uses all the tools in Protoss box to win. That makes him smart and resourceful. No need to play straight-up textbook like Stats. I find it is boring and uninspiring. If you think it is broken, by all mean, balance whine to Blizzard. In the end of the day, he wins with his strong will and skills regardless his playstyle. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:19 sharkie wrote: Zest and clean macro player in the same sentence. I am dieing of laughter right now Zest was a clean macro player for years. He built his name off being one. Laughing at your own ignorance? And strictly speaking, "Zest" and "clean macro player" are not in fact in the same sentence. Also you misspelled "dying." On October 22 2017 03:34 Olli wrote: Besides, if people don't like how Protoss wins in LotV, perhaps they should be asking for viable alternatives. But they really haven't been there in LotV. Stats is renowned for playing a defensive macro style, and is the most successful Protoss player of LotV, Seems viable enough to me. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:11 sharkie wrote: First time herO cannot be kicked out by classic in a blizzcon? :p Damn straight, mate! Both herO's nemesis Classic and sOs are not at BlizzCon. This is as good as it gets for herO  . | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:39 Vutalisk wrote: His style may not be likable to you but don't assume everyone else thinks the same way. Also, herO simply uses all the tools in Protoss box to win. That makes him smart and resourceful. No need to play straight-up textbook like Stats. I find it is boring and uninspiring. If you think it is broken, by all mean, balance whine to Blizzard. In the end of the day, he wins with his strong will and skills regardless his playstyle. Of course herO has the right to choose his own style. And the fans have the right to hate him for it (if they so choose). I really don't think it's an exaggeration to say that dirty cheesers are less popular and/or less respected than clean macro players. I mean, just look at the way they are named "dirty" and "clean." Do you disagree? herO's playstyle is hardly broken, seeing as he has been far less successful than Stats in 2017. Rather, herO's playstyle is simply disgusting to watch. I can respect his wins, but I can't respect his play. The Great Book of Protoss Bullshit was named as such because it is full of bullshit, not gourmet cheese and fine wine. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
And I will stand by my point that he only wins when protoss is OP until proven otherwise. ST1 was a joke in terms of balance. (also I don't blindly hate him and dismiss his wins like people are saying. When he has legit good performances I credit him for it, ST2 was an example of that) | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:47 pvsnp wrote:I really don't think it's an exaggeration to say that dirty cheesers are less popular and/or less respected than clean macro players. I mean, just look at the way they are named "dirty" and "clean." Do you disagree? ByuN is or was super popular and he was a dirty cheeser. He might be the dirtiest cheeser of all time since he had one and it was so OP that people would know it was coming and still lose to it. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On October 22 2017 04:37 Boggyb wrote: ByuN is or was super popular and he was a dirty cheeser. He might be the dirtiest cheeser of all time since he had one and it was so OP that people would know it was coming and still lose to it. Mass reaper disgusted everyone when we slowly realised that it wasn't just insane micro from one player but that could be abused by a couple more terrans, and it get nerfed hard | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:47 pvsnp wrote: Of course herO has the right to choose his own style. And the fans have the right to hate him for it (if they so choose). I really don't think it's an exaggeration to say that dirty cheesers are less popular and/or less respected than clean macro players. I mean, just look at the way they are named "dirty" and "clean." Do you disagree? herO's playstyle is hardly broken, seeing as he has been far less successful than Stats in 2017. Rather, herO's playstyle is simply disgusting to watch. I can respect his wins, but I can't respect his play. The Great Book of Protoss Bullshit was named as such because it is full of bullshit, not gourmet cheese and fine wine. I don't like cheese as much as the next person but it is the legit way to play. So be it. I would call herO as an "aggressor" than a cheeser. That title should belong to sOs or Has instead. Frankly, any race has its own Disgusting Book of BS. What else is new? There is no such thing is gourmet cheese or fine wine when it comes to cheese. I hope you not try to elevate sOs or Has' BS as some sort of "gourmet cheese". | ||
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 22 2017 04:56 Vutalisk wrote: I don't like cheese as much as the next person but it is the legit way to play. So be it. I would call herO as an "aggressor" than a cheeser. That title should belong to sOs or Has instead. Frankly, any race has its own Disgusting Book of BS. What else is new? There is no such thing is gourmet cheese or fine wine when it comes to cheese. I hope you not try to elevate sOs or Has' BS as some sort of "gourmet cheese". While I am definitely not a fan of Has or sOs, I do prefer their playstyle over herO's. Though they are undeniably cheesy players, both sOs and Has have an endearing ingenuity about them, a creative flair that allows them to pioneer new builds/strategies that no other player has even dreamed of attempting. Double proxy robo, for instance, or the original mass Oracle. I may not be a fan, but at the same time I have to give sOs/Has my grudging respect because they can play a crazy awesome playstyle that somehow manages to produce victory at the end of the day. Their abusive bullshit is overshadowed by their sheer élan. They have style. Not so with herO. I've never seen him show any hint of that unique mad brilliance that sets sOs/Has apart, and without that élan, herO is just a dirty cheeser abusing the worst aspects of his race in my eyes. On October 22 2017 04:37 Boggyb wrote: ByuN is or was super popular and he was a dirty cheeser. He might be the dirtiest cheeser of all time since he had one and it was so OP that people would know it was coming and still lose to it. ByuN is super popular because of his endearing personality and fairytale story. It's very hard to hate a hardworking underdog with a cute puppy who wears his heart on his sleeve and rises to the pinnacle of Starcraft after years of exile in disgrace. His fanboys defended his admittedly abusive 3rax-ing because he is super popular, not the other way around. ByuN was popular despite his playstyle, not because of it. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On October 22 2017 05:06 pvsnp wrote: While I am definitely not a fan of Has or sOs, I do prefer their playstyle over herO's. Though they are undeniably cheesy players, both sOs and Has have an endearing ingenuity about them, a creative flair that allows them to pioneer new builds/strategies that no other player has even dreamed of attempting. Double proxy robo, for instance, or the original mass Oracle. I may not be a fan, but at the same time I have to give sOs/Has my grudging respect because they can play a crazy awesome playstyle that somehow manages to produce victory at the end of the day. Their abusive bullshit is overshadowed by their sheer élan. They have style. Not so with herO. I've never seen him show any hint of that unique mad brilliance that sets sOs/Has apart, and without that élan, herO is just a dirty cheeser abusing the worst aspects of his race in my eyes. ByuN is super popular because of his endearing personality and fairytale story. It's very hard to hate a hardworking underdog with a cute puppy who wears his heart on his sleeve and rises to the pinnacle of Starcraft after years of exile in disgrace. His fanboys defended his admittedly abusive 3rax-ing because he is super popular, not the other way around. ByuN was popular despite his playstyle, not because of it. Byun barely used reapers for his GSL win, in fact i'm not sure if he used 3 rax reaper at all. | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
The smellier the cheese the better. All races, all levels of play. Cheese is all or nothing. High risk, high reward. Watching those succeed or fail is great. (And yes, I do actually love high tier long macro games as well, but I'd rather watch both over Hydra Bane Busts, Adept Phoenix all-ins, or 1-1-1 Timings) | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On October 22 2017 04:56 Vutalisk wrote: I don't like cheese as much as the next person but it is the legit way to play. So be it. I would call herO as an "aggressor" than a cheeser. That title should belong to sOs or Has instead. Frankly, any race has its own Disgusting Book of BS. What else is new? There is no such thing is gourmet cheese or fine wine when it comes to cheese. I hope you not try to elevate sOs or Has' BS as some sort of "gourmet cheese". sOs going proxy 2 gate against herO in consecutive games might be the single greatest instance of strategic play in SC2 history. That was absolutely "gourmet cheese". | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On October 22 2017 03:11 sharkie wrote: First time herO cannot be kicked out by classic in a blizzcon? :p Unfortunately | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On October 22 2017 05:59 curufinwe_wins wrote: Dirty cheeser.... I'm sorry is the goal of this game to win or not? The smellier the cheese the better. All races, all levels of play. Cheese is all or nothing. High risk, high reward. Watching those succeed or fail is great. (And yes, I do actually love high tier long macro games as well, but I'd rather watch both over Hydra Bane Busts, Adept Phoenix all-ins, or 1-1-1 Timings) and are you, are we playing when we watch them ? We didn't put down his achievements. As viewers, we may have preference, and herO is the player I dislike the most, that's all; when he play I often turn the stream off, because I don't find any enjoyment at seeing him play, so what's the point of watching esport if you don't enjoy yourself ? That's all. | ||
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beepbeeeeeeep
145 Posts
On October 22 2017 02:48 Fango wrote: herO's execution isn't exactly jaw-dropping, it's good but don't think it's something to hype up. People say his micro is amazing but I'm yet to see examples of him doing what other protosses can't. Playing a more micro heavy style (lots of agression with stalkers, warp prisms etc) than other protosses doesn't make him automatically the best either. His lategame army control and awareness certainly isn't. I've always liked this little display of micro from hero | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
On October 22 2017 06:49 Mun_Su wrote: and are you, are we playing when we watch them ? We didn't put down his achievements. As viewers, we may have preference, and herO is the player I dislike the most, that's all; when he play I often turn the stream off, because I don't find any enjoyment at seeing him play, so what's the point of watching esport if you don't enjoy yourself ? That's all. Hmm? Anyways, I was merely saying I love watching cheese. I love watching meta defying builds and games. It is way more interesting than a stupid 1-1-1 timing we have seen literally 1000 times or PvZ hydra bane busts. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
But ST2 changed my perspective of herO after watching him for years. Many of his wins particularly in PvP were not "choose abusive build and execute" at all. I thought his decision making in a bunch of those games were incredible. He showed flexibility, he showed really calculated risks that really paid off, and he showed a scary amount of diversity in his play. I have a new found respect for herO's reactionary play, he's basically become sOs with much better mechanics, unpredictable and thriving in weird situations. Before, if herO had a build that was working a lot in the meta, he would literally just do it every game. Nowadays, no-one knows what herO is going to do, even if you scout him. | ||
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