EPTAlso, on the subject of amazing games, it would be great if TL did a "Best Games of 2017" article the way they used to for 2013, 2014, and 2015. I don't think one was ever produced for 2016.
TLMC9 Final Results - Page 5
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Also, on the subject of amazing games, it would be great if TL did a "Best Games of 2017" article the way they used to for 2013, 2014, and 2015. I don't think one was ever produced for 2016. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 08 2017 08:19 mizenhauer wrote: It is a bad map in LotV, but the point remains that it enables a wide variety of play despite having existed so long. It never grew stale, it just got railroaded by a bad expansion it wasn't intended to be played on. Significant balance changes are the only reason that there's any variety left on Overgrowth. And between switching things up with balance changes, or switching up maps I know which one I prefer. A specific and quantifiable example of variety decreasing on a map as it ages would be the placement of the third in TvZ on Abyssal Reef. Before people mostly took the regular third, but as people learned the map they also experimented with the 12/6 o'clock bases, as well as the low ground base very occasionally. But after a while people got used to the map and have determined the regular third is optimal, and now the alternate thirds are essentially never taken. | ||
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grizzlybear
19 Posts
On October 07 2017 18:18 Liquid`Snute wrote: There should be two separate 1v1 ladders with competitive pool (7maps) and wild pool (way more than 7 maps?) in 2018 imo, like in hearthstone. Then there can finally be different 'fun maps' with coinflips and balance issues (catallena, inferno pools, dasan station, sky garden, prion terraces, frost, etc) in a pool where they can be enjoyed properly. It would also make it possible for people to actually play maps outside of the current 7 with help from the matchmaking system. The matchmaking system is one of the best features of starcraft 2. I don't see many reasons outside of development costs to not implement a solution like this. the game has somehow been stuck in this "only one map pool of 7 maps" mindset for seven years and it's not necessary at all Just wanted to respond to this. I can only speak for a small segment of the ladder - 4700 - 4900MMR on NA and 4500 - 4700MMR on KR. In these ranges, it is pretty common to see opponents 300-500 MMR away. Per Reddit, a 315 MMR difference translates to a 75% win rate for the higher-rated player. From my perspective it is unusual to see such large disparities in rating at a relatively low point on the ladder (the above MMRs are Master's 3 and Diamond 1, respectively). I don't think it's a good experience, either. I can understand it at higher levels where there's a smaller playerbase and a much higher skill disparity, but Diamond 1? I'm guessing that this is not a matchmaker issue but rather a player population and games played per day issue. I think splitting the playerbase by adding a second queue for playing the "wild pool" would exacerbate this problem and not be good for the ladder. I suspect this is why Blizzard has never done it, and also why they combined the Unranked / Ranked queues. It's probably feasible in Hearthstone due to the large number of players; I haven't researched the game, but a cursory Google search indicates at least 10x daily active users compared to SC2. I agree with your prior point about what kinds of maps should and should not belong in the competitive pool. | ||
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4theCookie
Norway1 Post
I haven't actually played the map, but it looks neat and I get a nostalgic vibe from the SC1 Terran campaign! | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
On October 08 2017 07:56 pvsnp wrote: What blasphemy is this? Given the number of absolutely incredible games that have taken place on Abyssal Reef, I can't understand how you would think it isn't one of the greatest maps. Just off the top of my head, we had: Inno vs Dark at Katowice Inno vs aLive at Katowice TY vs Stats at Katowice Inno vs TY at GSL vs the World Dark vs Inno in GSL Season 3 These games? Do you just choose to ignore high level tournaments? Do you just wish to accept only what you think is good? Huh? | ||
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Alarak'smanservant
35 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1967 Posts
On October 08 2017 13:54 SidianTheBard wrote: So wait...as a TL writer, you just "didn't see" These games? Do you just choose to ignore high level tournaments? Do you just wish to accept only what you think is good? Huh? I watched every single one of those games and was not impressed by any of them to the point that I recall what happened. The fact that you're trying to turn that into some kind of inflammatory comment or disparaging criticism of your map is disappointing. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16101 Posts
On October 08 2017 18:50 mizenhauer wrote: I watched every single one of those games and was not impressed by any of them to the point that I recall what happened. The fact that you're trying to turn that into some kind of inflammatory comment or disparaging criticism of your map is disappointing. So what are the games that impressed you? speaking of all years/expansions? | ||
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
On October 08 2017 20:45 Charoisaur wrote: So what are the games that impressed you? speaking of all years/expansions? Innovation vs Taeja on Newkirk Precinct incoming.  | ||
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Luolis
Finland7196 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1967 Posts
On October 08 2017 20:45 Charoisaur wrote: So what are the games that impressed you? speaking of all years/expansions? I'll get around to responding to this when I'm not on mobile. But, if you want a head start, pick almost any game off the 2015 best games list. | ||
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Carminedust
487 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1967 Posts
On October 08 2017 23:30 mizenhauer wrote: I'll get around to responding to this when I'm not on mobile. But, if you want a head start, pick almost any game off the 2015 best games list. I figured instead of doing "best games" which would take far long to group, I'd come up with a small list of games I do remember and group them to explain why. "S" games are remembered because they were excellent. "A" games are fun for one reason or another, but usually one sided. "B" games are just awful and memorable for that reason. Maru vs Dear WCS Season Finals - S TaeJa vs INnoVation Newkirk - S Maru vs Zest Dusk Towers - S Maru vs Stats Foxtrot - A Mvp vs INnoVation Akilon Wastes - A Maru vs ByuL Vaani - A Maru vs Stats Vaani - A Rogue vs herO Deadwing - A Rogue vs herO Echo - A Maru vs BraVo Cactus Valley - A soO vs Maru Alterzim Stronghold - A soO vs Maru Foxtrot Labs - A soO vs Stats Nimbus - A soO vs Zest Yeonsu - B sOs vs Bunny Cactus Valley - B sOs vs ByuN KSS - B Games can be memorable for all different reasons. They don't have to be objectively the best, but they need to have some sort of defining features. Maru five rax reapering ByuL is far more iconic than when he went seven rax against soO in GSL for obvious reasons. sOs dying to widow mines is awful but endearing whereas sOs and ByuN in game one of the GSL finals was just atrocious and has no business existing. I have literally watched every game of GSL/SSL/VSL this year. I've watched almost all the WCS and all the weekenders with Koreans. These LotV games just blend together for me. I can hardly remember any of them save for a couple of soO games. | ||
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Aquila Magna
Germany38 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
On October 08 2017 22:52 Luolis wrote: Just stepping in to say that i think Abyssal is not very enjoyable either. kthxbai blasphemy | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
BURN THE HERETIC  | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
Standard maps have dominated the scene for about 6 years now. You can assume that with very few exceptions, only people who like standard maps are left with the SC2 community as of now. Its the fate of every online community. Over time, opinions become less and less diverse, and the long timers will become more and more extreme about their opinions. In other words, a circle jerk. Any forced change would only make the remaining community leave. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1967 Posts
No map that led to so many skytoss games should be considered an elite map imo. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16101 Posts
On October 10 2017 21:56 mizenhauer wrote: No map that led to so many skytoss games should be considered an elite map imo. Daybreak led to many BL/Infestor games. Overgrowth led to many SH games. Every map had toxic strategies being played on them. | ||
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