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StarCraft 2: Powered - another way to play LotV

Forum Index > SC2 General
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OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-27 17:32:46
August 25 2017 17:37 GMT
#1
After months of work, this is it: O'Gaming is proud to present:

StarCraft 2: Powered


The idea of this mod is simple: getting back the sensations we had at the release of each new expansion, some sort of renewal of StarCraft, a will to play with new units and discover new strategies.

We already started to test new things to entertain, by proposing a new way to play LotV with OG 6 Start (a tournament where you start with only 6 workers intead of 12).

We did 4 Seasons of OG 6 Start, including the last one with 8 of the best Korean players (soO, INnoVation, GuMiho...), and every time the games were fun and diversified, which were with no doubt what made this hybrid competition such a success with our audience.

With this sucess, we wanted to go further, because even though we are convinced that starting with 6 workers make the games more dynamic and accessible, we think it's also possible to slightly modify the mid and late game, to watch games that would be different from start to end, while still keeping the spirit of StarCraft 2.

In this light, we worked with VisionElf to make a mod which shouldn't contain too many changes, because StarCraft 2 is already a great game, but enough to allow players to experiment new strategies. No pure balance changes (like +1 range, etc), but a will to change the game's dynamic rather than its balance.

To achieve that, we chose to concentrate our efforts on spellcasters, by trying to make them decisive units in several configurations. The final goal is to make positionning less crucial in a fight. In StarCraft 2: Powered, spells have a greater effect than in normal LotV, big enough that, in an equal fight, it can make a real difference.

Mainly, we modified the spells, by doing the least amount of changes possible. As a result, some games won't change much from LotV, but the important is to have good games.

+ Show Spoiler +
To go further in details, the idea was that Broodwar worked because game mechanics are so intense that it's impossible to play a perfect game. The game is won by the one who does the least errors, each player always doing at least some. On StarCraft 2 you can do much less errors because the ergonomy of the game has been greatly improved, which tends to reduce the skill gap between players. A way to bring back this skill gap is to introduce more spells, and to make them more important in the game, while being careful that the spellcasters don't become killer machines. So we have limited the spells doing damage, and increased spells doing control, so that units can make a true difference while still needing to be supported by standard units.

The advantage spells have on strict positionning of the units, is that a positionning can be anticipated, you just need to look at where you're going to attack to see the terrain and play with the topography. For the spells, the calcul is not that simple because you can't see in advance how the opponent's army will behave, so it's impossible to strictly plan things. If you add to that the addtional micro it requires, it should give more rythm to the games from the mid game on.

Obviously all of this is to take with caution. The goal is not to change the game into WarCraft 3 or League of Legends. That's why the game will start with only 6 workers, which will make the early game longer. T2 units will come one by one, which keeps the dynamic allowing for a transition to the mid-game that's often great (ex. Zerglings / Banelings / Mutalisks vs Marines / Mines / Medivac). Once you're above 140 population, the spellcaster becomes a very interesting unit. With a good game sense, you'll be able to take a significant advantage on your opponent, more than right now. That should give us games with more twists, games even more beautiful.

If everything happens as expected, the additional difficulty required by the use of the spells shouldn't affect the beginners, since the spellcasters become really interesting when you understand the basic aspects of the game. So in the low/mid ranks, the changes we made shouldn't discourage the players: having a bigger number of units will be more appealing and effective than spellcasters badly used. As this additional difficulty isn't restrictive in the early and mid game, it should rather empower the beginners to reach a sufficient level to start playing those spellcasters properly.


Tournaments will be announced soon, including Open Qualifiers. If you find this mod appealing, come and show your strategy against other players who will also have prepared their "Special Tactics". Let's have fun on StarCraft 2 like before!

Without further adue, here's the presentation of the modifications for each races. The videos show the most important changes, you can find the complete modifications and their explanation below.


[image loading] TERRAN



Ghost

- Steady Targetting now does 70 damage, 155 against Psionic.

- Building a Nuke now costs 250 Mineral, instead of 100 Mineral / 100 Gas. It takes 12 seconds to drop instead of 14.

- New spell: Point Defense Drone (costs 75 Energy, has 110 Energy and lasts 8 seconds). It basically works like the Raven's, the size being a bit smaller.

- New spell: Lockdown (costs 100 Energy, duration 7 seconds).
The Lockdown stuns a unit: it can't move, attack or use its abilities. It works on all units, ground and air, even on the Ultralisk despite the Frenzy ability.

- Removed spell: EMP.

Cloak wasn't changed.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The goal is to make the spellcasters more operational. We first added the Point Defense Drone to the Ghost to give him a support purpose as soon as he arrives.
It will be useful against Hydralisks, Mutalisks, Adepts, Stalkers and Marauders.
We then added the Lockdown to make the Ghost more effective in the transition toward the late game, by holding off the arrival of the first Ultralisks / Carriers / BattleCruisers.
The Nuke has a reduced cost so Terran players can use it more in offense as well in defense.
Obviously, those new spells mean Steady Targetting will have a lesser impact.
It can still one shot the spellcasters like High Templars, Vipers or Infestators,
but the damages are reduced on others. 6 Steady Targetting shots are now required to kill an Ultralisk, instead of 3. With those new attributes, the Ghost becomes a major unit which will help you get away in many situations.



Raven

The Raven is repealed from the game, and replaced by the Science Vessel.


Science Vessel

- HP: 145
- Energy: 50
- costs 100 Mineral / 200 Gas and 43 seconds to build

- Nano Repair: the Science Vessel passively heals all the units around, its area being 4. It costs 1 Energy for 5 HP, and the spell can be deactivated.

- Vessel EMP (costs 100 Energy): works exactly as the EMP removed from the Ghost.

- Irradiate (costs 75 Energy): needs to be researched in the Lab Tech for 200 Mineral / 200 Gas and 79 seconds.
Irradiate does 6 damage per seconds over 21 seconds to ground and air biological units. It has a 1,43 seconds cooldown. Once the spell is cast on a unit, all units around in a 1,5 radius are affected. The spell can be cast on mechanical units: they won't take any damage themselves, but will damage biological units around.
Irradiatecanceled by burrowing the targetted unit.

- The Corvid Reactor upgrade from the Raven is given to the Science Vessel, for the same effect: +25 Energy when built.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
We removed the Raven because 2 of his 3 spells already existed in the Science Vessel on Broodwar. It seemed more logical to put it back.
Nano Repair has been added to allow the unit to have a support function as soon as it arrives. It's useful for its detection ability, but also its support to mech units.
Vessel EMP will allow Terran players to deal with Vipers which have also been modified and will more easily be stacked and hidden among the rest of the army. Sames goes with mass High Templars / Archons.
Irradiate will force the opponent to micro out the affected unit(s). It can be devastating against packed or weak units if properly micro'ed. It replaces the Seeker Missile that was not really fitting, by giving more opportunities. It's also possible to irradiate your own mechanical unit, which needs you to put in additional micro but also makes it harder for your opponent to avoid. There are more counters, especially burrowing.
The Science Vessel, just like the Ghost becomes an important unit that can be used in several configurations and make the difference.



Liberator

The Liberator is removed from the game, and replaced by the Herc.


Herc

- Can only attack ground units with a small splash damage
- Damage: 21
- Attack speed: 1,7 seconds
- Ability: Grapple, to jump on ally or enemy units
- If Grapple is used on an enemy, the Herc commits suicide and deals 100 damage against Light and Armored, 175 against Psionic and 200 against Massive. The damage is dealt only to the targetted unit (no splash damage) and there's no friendly fire.
The Grapple won't provoke the Herc's explosion if targetting ally units, but will allow him to jump cliffs. It works on both ground and air units.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Herc is here mainly to replace the Liberator, which was added to give Terrans a way to deal with massive ground units, and partially with light air units. The air light units shouldn't be an issue thanks to Irradiate, PDD and Lockdown, so we focused the functionality of the Herc on massive units.
The first Carriers or Ultralisks can be a disaster for the Terran race, so the Herc will allow Terran players to blow up massive units and try to save the biobal.
The fact the Herc explodes will smoothen the transition to T3, since it won't be possible to snowball the Hercs and accumulate them throughout the game like it's possible with Liberators. The idea is to accept that the Terran race plays mainly with its T2 (MMM as well as Hellbats / Tanks / Vikings) by giving them weapons to keep it rather than reinforce it. The Herc will be a good unit for a moment in the game with equal economy, and will allow Terran players to reach its ultimate composition (BattleCruisers / Vikings / Science Vessel / Ghosts for instance), to snowball once again.



- New building: Tech Reactor (needs to be researched in the Fusion Core for 300 Mineral / 300 Gas): this add-on works like in the StarCraft 2 campaign, allowing all units to be produced by 2. When the upgrade is done, all Reactors and Lab Tech are automatically transformed into Tech Reactors.
Once the research is done, building a new Tech Reactor costs 50 Mineral / 50 Gas.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Tech Reactor makes it easier for the Terran to adjust its army composition in the late game. The upgrade being in the Fusion Core, it also helps with the transition to T3, by giving another reason to Terran players to build it. Once it's done, take the step towards BattleCruisers will be much easier, especially since it will be possible to produce 2 of them at once in the same Spatioport.



The Terran race is the only one blocking systematically on the T2. The few times T3 is built, the whole strategy is fully committed to it (full air turtle style). The choice to go T3 is rarely done when the biobal is 3/3.
The goal of the additional changes (Herc and Tech Reactor) is to modify those dynamics to try and make them more flexible: opening bridges to Terran players towards T3 with the Tech Reactor which will be a must have in the late game, and the Herc which can't snowball the same way as Liberators do.
The Ghost and Science Vessel are designed to be game changer and make the fight engagement more complicated than just taking a good concave, by giving them ways to interact in many ways, without just giving them brutal strength. The nerf of Steady Targetting goes in the same direction, as well as removing the Auto Turret and the Seeker Missile.
Terran spellcasters mainly become control units rather than destruction units. They'll still be able to do significant damage, but it will more dependent on your opponent's response. The goal is to make basic Terran units the true DPS, and spellcasters as their guardians.
The Tech Reactor is here to ease the access to T3, just like the Herc since it's a unit with a short living span. This should push Terrans to transition to T3 units like BattleCruisers more often.




[image loading] ZERG



Infestator

- Infested Terran is removed from the game.

- New spell: Tunnel (requires Burrow, costs 50 Energy): its allows the Infestator to dash to a selected position while creating an entry point (its starting position) and an exit point (its end position, where you clicked). The 2 points are connected and allow units to move like a normal Nydus Canal, except they can't be stored in it: they exit immediately after entering.
Each entry point have 250 HP and can be destroyed. Once one entry point is destroyed, the other is as well automatically.
Its maximum range is 13, it can climb cliffs and pass under buildings.

- Changes to Fungal Growth: it can't be used while the Infestator is burrowed, and it slows down the units by 90% instead of totally preventing them from moving.

- Changes to Neural Parasite: it can't be used while the Infestator is burrowed, and it now stuns the targetted unit for 5 seconds, during which you own it, but you can't control it. If the Infestator doesn't die meanwhile, at the end of the 5 seconds the unit permanently joins your army, and you can control it entirely until it dies. It will use space in your population just like if you made it yourself.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Infested Terran, like the Auto Turret, have been removed from the game to avoid the situation where the players would make a lot of them to tank up and make damage. To stay in the idea of spellcasters being support units, we replaced it by the Tunnel which will allow the Infestator to chase units to use Neural Parasite on them.
Neural Parasite becomes a dreadful weapon which will be able to punish positionning errors of the opponent, and to make a difference against big units if you use the Viper in addition.
Fungal Growth is a bit nerfed in its capacity to stop the opponent's army to increase the need of skill for the combo with Ravagers.
The Infestator becomes a key unit in the mid game up to the late game with the new Neural Parasite.



Viper

- Blinding Cloud is replaced by Dark Swarm.

- New spell: Dark Swarm (costs 100 Energy and lasts 7 seconds): it's an orange gas which protect all units within by making them untargettable. All units that will shoot from outside Dark Swarm on a unit inside it will have its damages reduced to 0, until they enter the Dark Swarm themselves, at which point they can attack normally.
Dark Swarm is a projectile and works against both ground and air attacks. Spells like Storm, Irradiate and Nova aren't impacted by Dark Swarm and still work as usual.

- Parasitic Bomb now deals 140 damage instead of 120.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Blinding Cloud was often forcing the Vipers to take too much risks by being on the front line to be able to target for example the tanks behind the Terran lines. With Dark Swarm, the Viper will be able to stay back and support units from there.
Dark Swarm is interesting when engaging, because it will be easy to avoid it in the middle of the map, by going in or disengaging, but almost impossible to avoid if the Zerg player has you corned in your base. It will also help the Zerg to finish off their games, which tends to be difficult even when they have the advantage, especially because of their opponent's base layout. With Dark Swarm, an advantage gained will be easier to transform into a siege which can finish the game, if the opponent can't produce the counter units (Storm / Nova / Stasis / Irradiate / Vessel EMP / PDD)



Brood Lord

- New spell: Frenzy (5 seconds duration, 90 seconds cooldown): doubles the moving speed of the Brood Lord, to either go in or disengage of a battle quicker.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The moving speed of the Brood Lord is too much of a burden. It will make the Brood Lord play more interesting and viable to play.



The Zerg race is the most interesting race when it comes to dynamics,
but a lot of strategies are not used that much like Baneling traps, Contaminate from the Overseer, Nydus Canals, etc. They often rely on their T3 so it's the race with the least amount of changes needed. To amplify the dynamics, we gave to the Infestator and the Viper the ability to combine their spells to create a strong synergy. For instance, the Dark Swarm with Neural Parasite, or the Abduct which can help the player get back a converted unit from Neural Parasite that would be a bit too far.
Tunnel will allow Zerg players to engage differently, and it can be easily used in a combo with Neural Parasite or Fungal Growth and offer new options to harass or move on the map.
Everything has been done to allow smart players to stand out even more from their opponent by taking full advantage of the Zerg spells.
The Brood Lord is uped because considering its price, it's not mobile or resistant enough, while it seems critical for the Zerg to have a strong air unit to finish the games. With Frenzy, it will be easier to use Brood Lords to their full potential.



[image loading] PROTOSS



Sentry

- New spell: Replicate (costs 75 Energy, duration 31 seconds): temporarily transforms itself in a copy of the targetted unit, except Psionic, Massive and workers. Can select both ally and enemy units. After 1,8 seconds during which it scans the targetted unit, the Sentry transforms itself in that unit, including its skills and upgrades, although the Sentry will keep its 40 Shield and 40 HP.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
This capacity is interesting because it will diversify the Protoss gameplay with a greater need of reflexion. The fact that the Sentry keeps its life makes weak units replicated stronger (ex. a Zergling with 40/40 instead of 35), while strong units will be weaker (Immortals for instance), avoiding a spell that would be overpowered.
It makes Replicate a tactical-based decision, where you want to pick the right units instead of just building mass Sentries and spamming the spell.
Just like the Ghost and the Infestator, the Sentry becomes a must-have, with the combinaison of the Forcefields to control the terrain, Guardian Shield to protect your other units, Hallucination to scout and Replicate to return bad situations to your advantage.
Replicate is going in the same direction as Forcefield or Storm: a reflex-based spell which requires good thinking and tactical decision-making.



Mothership Core

- Mass Recall is removed, and replaced by Recall Pylon.

- New spell: Recall Pylon (costs 50 Energy, 4 seconds casting time): transforms a Pylon into a Recall Pylon, which can recall all units in a 3 radius around the targetted unit from anywhere on the map to it. The ability has a 90 seconds cooldown. A Recall Pylon can't be used for a Photon Overcharge.

- Changes to Photon Overcharge: damages nerfed from 30 to 15.

- Changes to Time Warp: instantly created, it reduces speed by 75% instead of 50%.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Mass Recall is removed because the Mothership Core should rather be a defensive unit than be used to support the army when leaving the base, especially when Photon Overcharge is so important to defend the base.
The Protoss race having problems to make its gameplay dynamic, simply removing the Mass Recall would have been complicated. To help with that, we separated Mass Recall from the Mothership Core, so Protoss players don't have to wait for a critical amount of units to go out of their base.
Managing run by and drops will be easier by using good recalls.
Time Warp is improved to allow players to better control the terrain while moving their army.
Photon Overcharge is nerfed to avoid making it too strong in defense, while still being strong enough to kill and Oracle or a drop Mine, and that way being effective in early game.



High Templar

- New spell: Cleanse (costs 100 Energy, requires an upgrade in the Templar Archive for 200 Mineral / 200 Gas and 79 seconds): it cancels the effect of any spell currently active in the targetted area, with a 1,5 radius (like EMP). For instance it will cancel Fungal Growth, Dark Swarm, Lockdown, Storm ...

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Since we gave a lot of new spells to other races (Lockdown and Irradiate for Terran, Neural Parasite and Dark Swarm for Zerg), it was important to help the Protoss defend themselves against them by either doing more damage, or to lower it, as soon as the beginning of the mid game. Cleanse requires skill and to keep the units alive for the late game.
Cleanse won't work against Neural Parasite during the 5 seconds the Infestator is still "attached" to the unit it targetted. It will work however on a completely converted unit, and will give it back to the Protoss.



Mothership

- New spell: Vortex (costs 125 Energy, lasts 20 seconds): behaves exactly like in Wings of Liberty by sucking up all units inside, then releasing them. Upon release, the units are immune to damage for 1 second.
The only change is that it takes 3 seconds to be casted.

Details about these changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Vortex is added to give the ability to players to get out of a bad engagement. Since it takes 3 seconds to be effective, the opponent has ti,e to disengage, which is the main point of the Vortex. It also allows the player to control a zone. In a way, it's still possible to make a combo with the Archon Toilet, without it being too powerful with both the 3 seconds delay and the 1 second immunity of all units to damage. This way, the Mothership becomes a key unit again if well used.



The Protoss race has always had trouble moving and always had to make choices and play defensively in a lot of configurations. That's why we created the Pylon Recall, which will allow Protoss players to be more mobile, while removing this functionality from the Mothership Core who wasn't a good fit to use it.
The up of Time Warp will give better control over the fights and to make Zealots more effective in defense.
Photon Overcharge is nerfed to allow for more aggressive options in early TvP for instance, and also to avoid having a Protoss defense too powerful, Pylon Recall already being quite powerful.
For the Sentry, we wanted to stay in what Protoss is about, while still giving it new weapons which, used smartly, will allow it to make the difference. It becomes an inevitable unit on many aspects.
When it comes to the High Templar, we didn't want to add damage spells, but considering the changes to Zerg and Terran, it seemed necessary to give them the new "Cleanse" weapon which will allow the Protoss player to choose between protecting units by using Cleanse or dealing damage with Storm, especially in the late game. It also allows the Protoss, whose army is rather slow, to get better solutions against spellcasters.
Finally, the Vortex will be harder to use than in Wings of Liberty since it now needs 3 seconds to be activated. But if units fall inside by mistake, it will be as lethal as before, especially if Archons are nearby. The goal is to give the Mothership to control an area for some time, to block access to further down the road for instance. At the end of the day, the Vortex also transformed simple games into incredible moves that made everyone hold their breath. It had to be back.



GLOBAL GAMEPLAY


- The players start the game with 6 workers instead of 12 (the supply is scaled appropriately, just like in HotS).

Thanks to the 4 editions of OG 6 Start, we're convinced that starting with 6 workers only brings positive things. It gives more depth in the choice of build orders, there's more precise micro-gestion moves in the early game with a very small army composition, it's harder to snowball so the fights are more intense, etc. All those effects make the game more interesting, with more details, where each unit dying has a bigger impact.

Even on a community level, 6 workers allows for easier builds to understand and replicate, which makes it easier for beginners to start the game, or the return of older players who were finding the game too demanding. With 6 workers, the game is easier to begin for everyone, especially since you can do strategies like 6 Pool or 4 Gates to have fun and sensations very early in the game, which is now impossible with LotV.

In the end, this mod combines 2 ideas: first making sure that a 6 workers start was really effective, which make the very early game more interesting, then make the spellcasters into real support units which can interact in a lot of situations. We focused on control spells rather than damage spells to avoid a snowball effect on spellcasters, the goal being to have just the right amount of them compared to the army size, where having too many of them would lower the DPS too much to be worth it.

Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.


The mod is now in the Arcade on EU, US and KOR servers. You can find it by searching for "Powered".

You can also select a map in "Custom Game" and then click on "Create with a mod". Type in "Powered" in the search bar, and the map you chose will use the mod.

If you want to help us develop the mod, don't hesitate to send us your replay at OGSC2Powered@gmail.com!

A tournament will soon be announced, hopefully next week, stay tuned! Meanwhile, we're organizing a showmatch tonight at 19:30 GMT (+00:00) on [image loading] O'GamingTV, come check out the mod in action!

A huge thank you to all the players who gave us some of their time to test the mod and balance it as much as possible: Clem, Garitos, Denver, Uzikoti, ImData, Lind, Cripseil, FerouCyril, Slide.

Thank you!
O'GamingTV Crew !
Chaden
Profile Joined August 2017
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 18:22:00
August 25 2017 18:19 GMT
#2
I'd really happy to see Sc2 devs testing this mod. I think some changes of this mod would make next Sc2 patch better for players and viewers.

Thanks O'gaming fore making our game alive than never. Love you guys
Kerdinand
Profile Joined November 2016
Germany113 Posts
August 25 2017 18:29 GMT
#3
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.
Na jakar me'nah. - sOs - PartinG - Stats
bosshdt
Profile Joined April 2015
Afghanistan98 Posts
August 25 2017 18:43 GMT
#4
Well done.
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 18:55:40
August 25 2017 18:55 GMT
#5
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!
O'GamingTV Crew !
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 19:58:33
August 25 2017 19:58 GMT
#6
The showmatch have started, with players who helped us test the mod so they already know it!
[image loading] O'GamingTV
O'GamingTV Crew !
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
August 25 2017 20:11 GMT
#7
Guys increase the ressources per base please ,_______,

6 worker start is good, but bases still run out way too fast. When you macro on 3base, your main is already down to like 6 workers.
fastr
Profile Joined February 2011
France901 Posts
August 25 2017 20:28 GMT
#8
- Changes to Neural Parasite: it can't be used while the Infestator is burrowed, and it now stuns the targetted unit for 5 seconds, during which you own it, but you can't control it. If the Infestator doesn't die meanwhile, at the end of the 5 seconds the unit permanently joins your army, and you can control it entirely until it dies. It will use space in your population just like if you made it yourself.


wololo
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 21:20:18
August 25 2017 21:20 GMT
#9
Here's a play we just saw with Clem and Denver, who helped test the mod and played a lot of games on it!
Showmatch Clip
O'GamingTV Crew !
Rococo
Profile Joined May 2011
United States331 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 01:18:00
August 25 2017 22:23 GMT
#10
I always love to see well thought out 1v1 mods like this (emphasis on well thought out, which this seems to be), even if trying to place more emphasis on spellcaster micro isn't the direction I would take the game myself.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 26 2017 01:10 GMT
#11
It's interesting at least, thanks for the effort (more later when i tried it and thought about it more)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Mahanaim
Profile Joined December 2012
Korea (South)1002 Posts
August 26 2017 01:49 GMT
#12
Keep them coming! The community brainstorming about good potential changes is A+
Celebrating Starcraft since... a long time ago.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10671 Posts
August 26 2017 01:53 GMT
#13
Woah really nice and interesting changes actually, good work guys!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 02:28:58
August 26 2017 02:25 GMT
#14
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.
aka Kalevi
todespolka
Profile Joined November 2012
221 Posts
August 26 2017 11:20 GMT
#15
A lot of the ideas are imbalanced, look cool first, but are bad gameplay. The mod has also very good ideas. So it is an interesting mix of ideas worth testing.
Kerdinand
Profile Joined November 2016
Germany113 Posts
August 26 2017 11:41 GMT
#16
On August 26 2017 11:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.


1. Yes, I have never played BW except for the campaign.
2. I did not say "like BW" but "more like BW". Thats intended and an important difference.
3. Bringing back Science Vessels, Dark Swarm, Lockdown, EMP, etc. and reduce starting workers seems like taking the game in the BW direction to me.

And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.
Na jakar me'nah. - sOs - PartinG - Stats
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
August 26 2017 11:48 GMT
#17
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 11:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.


1. Yes, I have never played BW except for the campaign.
2. I did not say "like BW" but "more like BW". Thats intended and an important difference.
3. Bringing back Science Vessels, Dark Swarm, Lockdown, EMP, etc. and reduce starting workers seems like taking the game in the BW direction to me.

And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


I think this makes the game more like Dota more than anything else, with every unit getting new spells...



On August 26 2017 05:28 fastr wrote:
Show nested quote +
- Changes to Neural Parasite: it can't be used while the Infestator is burrowed, and it now stuns the targetted unit for 5 seconds, during which you own it, but you can't control it. If the Infestator doesn't die meanwhile, at the end of the 5 seconds the unit permanently joins your army, and you can control it entirely until it dies. It will use space in your population just like if you made it yourself.


wololo


11
maru G5L pls
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 14:01:29
August 26 2017 14:00 GMT
#18
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


We already explained in the first and second post what it's here for:

On August 26 2017 02:37 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.

On August 26 2017 03:55 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!


Plus the last edition of OG 6 Start, our previous mod, was played with 8 of the best Korean players. Not sure what you mean by "I cannot see my favourite pro players"

Obviously, if you except / watch only big tournaments like WCS or GSL, this ain't it. But there are other tournaments out there you know And soon one more, on a different way to play the game!
O'GamingTV Crew !
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
August 26 2017 14:40 GMT
#19
Question @Ogaming

Will you expand this mod further and further or is this basically a temporarily project where you try to get a few tournaments on it and then bascially make a new mod with another topic.

The current theme is more focus on spellcaster and more supportive interaction.

So maybe next theme could be "less is more"... drastic unit removals/ race redesign, removal of gimmicky units and focus on more basic compositions for example:

Mech = Tank, hellbat, Thor or goliath

Bio = marine, marauder, medivac

Standard protoss = zealot, Stalker, Collosi

etc.

Maybe having less stuff gimmicky units would open up strategy diversity, allowing for a greater variety of openings in every matchup.
Kerdinand
Profile Joined November 2016
Germany113 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 15:27:15
August 26 2017 15:19 GMT
#20
On August 26 2017 23:00 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


We already explained in the first and second post what it's here for:

Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 02:37 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.

Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 03:55 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!


Plus the last edition of OG 6 Start, our previous mod, was played with 8 of the best Korean players. Not sure what you mean by "I cannot see my favourite pro players"

Obviously, if you except / watch only big tournaments like WCS or GSL, this ain't it. But there are other tournaments out there you know And soon one more, on a different way to play the game!


I understand that you want to make it purely for fun but as I said I just dont think it will actually be played, and that tournaments with a mod will just be less appealing than tournaments without a mod. Thats all I wanted to point out. If it is worth the effor for you, thats totally ok with me (as if I could stop you ).

EDIT: Ok, you got me with the pro player part. Point for you, although even here I dont think we will see consistent pro competition (2 metas is just to much too learn), but Im always open to what the future brings.
Na jakar me'nah. - sOs - PartinG - Stats
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
August 26 2017 15:28 GMT
#21
On August 27 2017 00:19 Kerdinand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 23:00 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


We already explained in the first and second post what it's here for:

On August 26 2017 02:37 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.

On August 26 2017 03:55 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!


Plus the last edition of OG 6 Start, our previous mod, was played with 8 of the best Korean players. Not sure what you mean by "I cannot see my favourite pro players"

Obviously, if you except / watch only big tournaments like WCS or GSL, this ain't it. But there are other tournaments out there you know And soon one more, on a different way to play the game!


I understand that you want to make it purely for fun but as I said I just dont think it will actually be played. Thats all I wanted to point out. If it is worth the effor for you, thats totally ok with me (as if I could stop you ).

EDIT: Ok, you got me with the pro player part. Point for you, although even here I dont think we will see consistent pro competition (2 metas is just to much too learn), but Im always open to what the future brings.


Dude they make their own tournaments with this mod.

Pro players will play this mod as long as they can earn money with it.

A custom mod with changed interactions has the potential to attract more viewers, if it's well designed.

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of it. They don't try to create a better SC2 or to convince blizzard to copy some changes.

This mod is not supposed to be a separate SC2 version like StarBow with a separated ladder etc.

It's just a mod for unique and fresh tournament play.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44254 Posts
August 26 2017 15:39 GMT
#22
Is Frenesy like the word Frenzy?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3367 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 15:46:26
August 26 2017 15:45 GMT
#23
I don't like mech healing, just like I don't like it how they put it on the Raven. It's already on the Medivac, we don't need more healing beams. I think they knew this when they had mech heal in the campaign and they were pushing out WoL.
I also prefer 12 worker start to this.

Some of these ideas are pretty damn sick and of course some of them are things from Brood War which could also be pretty sick.
That Infestor Tunnel ability alone is so super awesome and I could honestly see this implemented in the current game.

Sentry can copy an Adept, Shade on top of a Ramp and with the right timing drop a Forcefield. That's pretty sick, or abusive, depening on how you look at it
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Kerdinand
Profile Joined November 2016
Germany113 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 16:01:47
August 26 2017 15:59 GMT
#24
On August 27 2017 00:28 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2017 00:19 Kerdinand wrote:
On August 26 2017 23:00 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


We already explained in the first and second post what it's here for:

On August 26 2017 02:37 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.

On August 26 2017 03:55 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!


Plus the last edition of OG 6 Start, our previous mod, was played with 8 of the best Korean players. Not sure what you mean by "I cannot see my favourite pro players"

Obviously, if you except / watch only big tournaments like WCS or GSL, this ain't it. But there are other tournaments out there you know And soon one more, on a different way to play the game!


I understand that you want to make it purely for fun but as I said I just dont think it will actually be played. Thats all I wanted to point out. If it is worth the effor for you, thats totally ok with me (as if I could stop you ).

EDIT: Ok, you got me with the pro player part. Point for you, although even here I dont think we will see consistent pro competition (2 metas is just to much too learn), but Im always open to what the future brings.


Dude they make their own tournaments with this mod.

Pro players will play this mod as long as they can earn money with it.

A custom mod with changed interactions has the potential to attract more viewers, if it's well designed.

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of it. They don't try to create a better SC2 or to convince blizzard to copy some changes.

This mod is not supposed to be a separate SC2 version like StarBow with a separated ladder etc.

It's just a mod for unique and fresh tournament play.


I understand that, all Im really trying to say is that I think it wont gain very much traction. A "tournament only" mod is fun to mess around with for one or two games, but in the long term remembering two metas, tech trees, unti interaction, etc. just seems too much (at least for me, dunno about others). I want to watch tournaments of the game I actually play.
But lets just stop discussing if the mods worth its time. I guess we just have to agree to disagree here. Lets just see how it acutally plays out.
Na jakar me'nah. - sOs - PartinG - Stats
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
August 26 2017 16:11 GMT
#25
It looks awesome
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
August 26 2017 17:05 GMT
#26
On August 27 2017 00:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Is Frenesy like the word Frenzy?


Indeed, it's fixed thank you!
O'GamingTV Crew !
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
August 26 2017 17:08 GMT
#27
On August 27 2017 00:59 Kerdinand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2017 00:28 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
On August 27 2017 00:19 Kerdinand wrote:
On August 26 2017 23:00 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
On August 26 2017 20:41 Kerdinand wrote:
And if this is not meant as a suggestion to Blizzard, what is it meant to be? A a lot of people will play because they prefer it? Without a ladder? A mod that makes tournaments flashier? Why would I want to watch a tournament on a mod, meaning I cannot see my favourite pro players, cannot learn new strategies/tactics/tricks and without Blizz support there wont be a big storyline or prizepool either. Just look what happened to Starbow, Vanguard, etc.. They are fun messing around in once or twice but they die of pretty quickly.
As I said, I appreciate the time and effort people put into this, but I just dont think its worth the investment. If its for your personal enjoyment, ok, I guess I can understand that. But then dont exspect a lot of people to play it.


We already explained in the first and second post what it's here for:

On August 26 2017 02:37 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Obviously the objective isn't 100% met and there's probably balance issues. The goal isn't to have a perfect balance, but to have fun. If a player finds a combinaison that's too strong, they will have impressed us during the game and we'll fix the issue later on. Don't hesitate to play with it and point out to us what's overpowered or underpowered! We have put in serious efforts in the balance and dynamic, but all of that is just to create different and surprising tournaments. If those tournament work, we'll have more data to update the mod and to continue to surprise you.

On August 26 2017 03:55 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Kerdinand the goal isn't necessarily to convince Blizzard about these changes. We wanted to make a fun mod to have games radically different than what we can see in LotV. We plan to create tournaments with this mod and see great stuff!


Plus the last edition of OG 6 Start, our previous mod, was played with 8 of the best Korean players. Not sure what you mean by "I cannot see my favourite pro players"

Obviously, if you except / watch only big tournaments like WCS or GSL, this ain't it. But there are other tournaments out there you know And soon one more, on a different way to play the game!


I understand that you want to make it purely for fun but as I said I just dont think it will actually be played. Thats all I wanted to point out. If it is worth the effor for you, thats totally ok with me (as if I could stop you ).

EDIT: Ok, you got me with the pro player part. Point for you, although even here I dont think we will see consistent pro competition (2 metas is just to much too learn), but Im always open to what the future brings.


Dude they make their own tournaments with this mod.

Pro players will play this mod as long as they can earn money with it.

A custom mod with changed interactions has the potential to attract more viewers, if it's well designed.

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of it. They don't try to create a better SC2 or to convince blizzard to copy some changes.

This mod is not supposed to be a separate SC2 version like StarBow with a separated ladder etc.

It's just a mod for unique and fresh tournament play.


I understand that, all Im really trying to say is that I think it wont gain very much traction. A "tournament only" mod is fun to mess around with for one or two games, but in the long term remembering two metas, tech trees, unti interaction, etc. just seems too much (at least for me, dunno about others). I want to watch tournaments of the game I actually play.
But lets just stop discussing if the mods worth its time. I guess we just have to agree to disagree here. Lets just see how it acutally plays out.


i understand your point. It's really hard to predict how long a tournament that isn't the main game will attract viewers... But as long as it's fresh and entertaining, i'm confident people will enjoy watching it.

DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44254 Posts
August 26 2017 17:40 GMT
#28
On August 27 2017 02:05 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2017 00:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Is Frenesy like the word Frenzy?


Indeed, it's fixed thank you!


Cool Best of luck with this!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Libe91
Profile Joined August 2015
France16 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-26 22:00:26
August 26 2017 22:00 GMT
#29
I'm diamond and already over my head mechanically with LOTV, I think i'll pass on a mod which demands to play 10 to 30 iterations of the same champions spellcasters every game, I'll watch pro players play for entertainement value, but I'm not sure I'll play,
GL tho.
TrainingDay
Profile Joined August 2017
4 Posts
August 27 2017 17:17 GMT
#30
GG's guys !

This is one of the best mod i ever read. I don't understand why you have so less comments, and why you have no pro player feedback, it could be interesting!

Keep it up the good work guys !
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-27 17:31:20
August 27 2017 17:29 GMT
#31
On August 28 2017 02:17 TrainingDay wrote:
GG's guys !

This is one of the best mod i ever read. I don't understand why you have so less comments, and why you have no pro player feedback, it could be interesting!

Keep it up the good work guys !

because no one really wants to play sc2 mods. better mods have been made by more committed developers, they each last a while and then die because they're just novelties made by amateurs. no disrespect to OP, if he had fun modding the game and got some people to try it out that's great, but sc2 is sc2 by blizzard and it will live and die as sc2 by blizzard. most of the people who have a problem with that just move on to another game

this is just my personal opinion, but i think a lot of the people who mod sc2 obsessively are people who just want the game to be designed in a way that makes their personal playstyle strong because they can't handle not being the best. it's the avilo mindset.
TL+ Member
207aicila
Profile Joined January 2015
1237 Posts
August 27 2017 17:36 GMT
#32
On August 28 2017 02:29 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2017 02:17 TrainingDay wrote:
GG's guys !

This is one of the best mod i ever read. I don't understand why you have so less comments, and why you have no pro player feedback, it could be interesting!

Keep it up the good work guys !

because no one really wants to play sc2 mods. better mods have been made by more committed developers, they each last a while and then die because they're just novelties made by amateurs. no disrespect to OP, if he had fun modding the game and got some people to try it out that's great, but sc2 is sc2 by blizzard and it will live and die as sc2 by blizzard. most of the people who have a problem with that just move on to another game

this is just my personal opinion, but i think a lot of the people who mod sc2 obsessively are people who just want the game to be designed in a way that makes their personal playstyle strong because they can't handle not being the best. it's the avilo mindset.


I'm not trying to fully change what you say is your personal opinion, but I wish you would consider the possibility that maybe some of these people are gamers who have played other RTS before/beside SC2 and recognize some of the fundamental design failings of SC2 which have never gone away and will never go away so long as Blizzard only patches in bandaids and refuses to do major overhauls.

I fully agree that it will live and die as SC2 by Blizzard, while mod initiatives like this are nice they never seem to get enough traction even when their niche communities pump real money into trying to sustain them.
mfw people who never followed BW speak about sAviOr as if they know anything... -___-''''
TL+ Member
TrainingDay
Profile Joined August 2017
4 Posts
August 27 2017 18:02 GMT
#33
@207aicila +1

The weird thing, is when a mod is in "Avilo mindset" we have tons of comment and theory craft to explain why it's bad. Even TLO announce a mod to prove Avilo's mod is bad.

When a mod seem's interesting, with no Avilo mindset obviously (who knows if ogaming prefers Terran or Protoss ? All the new featured are cool despite of the race). Nobody talks.. so what we want ? we want Blizzard do something ? but Blizzard start to did something cause Avilo did a mod, Ogaming did a mod, Vanguard too, GSL made a change on mineral etc i mean, Blizzard don't listen but see the scene moving, and try to follow it

This kind of mod can help Blizzard to see what the community wants. If tomorrow a lot of people say : This mod is cool, Blizzard will take some idea of this mod. If we just wait that Blizzard find a solution, SC2 will continue to die..

So if we love this game, we should all take 3 minutes to try all the mod with no "Avilo mindset" and make some feedback. And not, wait... wait... and write on all community feedback that the game is wrong.. Community feedback are here to announce some change, not discuss on change. Mod are here to try some change and discuss about it.

Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
August 27 2017 18:29 GMT
#34
On August 28 2017 02:29 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2017 02:17 TrainingDay wrote:
GG's guys !

This is one of the best mod i ever read. I don't understand why you have so less comments, and why you have no pro player feedback, it could be interesting!

Keep it up the good work guys !

because no one really wants to play sc2 mods. better mods have been made by more committed developers, they each last a while and then die because they're just novelties made by amateurs. no disrespect to OP, if he had fun modding the game and got some people to try it out that's great, but sc2 is sc2 by blizzard and it will live and die as sc2 by blizzard. most of the people who have a problem with that just move on to another game

this is just my personal opinion, but i think a lot of the people who mod sc2 obsessively are people who just want the game to be designed in a way that makes their personal playstyle strong because they can't handle not being the best. it's the avilo mindset.



What a mean comment.



I'd love to test this mod and feedback it but my computer can't handle Sc2 and I am much more a viewer than a player. However as a Viewer I greatly enjoyed watchin the OGTV start event, the last TvZ, espacially, was really fun to watch.

INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
VisionElf
Profile Joined September 2012
France2 Posts
August 27 2017 18:58 GMT
#35
most of the people who have a problem with that just move on to another game


Blizzard gave us the Galaxy Editor. If we don't like the game, why no try to edit it the way we want to?

Consider this mod as an Arcade mod that could be better to play for some players than the regular ladder.
Like all others Arcade mods.

This is not a "How we think SC2 should be" mod.
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-27 19:14:46
August 27 2017 19:13 GMT
#36
On August 26 2017 11:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.

Avilo would like a word with you.

On topic, the changes are interesting, and none of them seems biased. I'd give it a try, but I gave up playing SC2 in all it's forms. I just enjoy watching it now.
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-27 21:55:17
August 27 2017 21:34 GMT
#37
We'll be hosting the first tournament next week, starting with 2 Open Qualifiers! We'll provide a 500€ cash prize for the tournament.

Qualifier 1
Monday, Aug 28 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) - Register here

Qualifier 2
Tuesday, Aug 29 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) - Register here

--

Group A
Thursday, Aug 31 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Group B
Friday, Sep 01 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Playoffs
Sunday, Sep 03 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)


We already explained why we did this mod, but perhaps it was lost in the first big post, or in the 2 following posts we made :D
So, to explain it again: we did not create this mod to inspire Blizzard. If Blizzard wishes to implement some of our changes, good. If not, that's fine. Our goal is to create another way to play LotV, and organize competitions on it that will bring a different kind of entertainment, with new moves you won't be able to see anywhere else. If you're not interested, nobody forces you to watch :D
O'GamingTV Crew !
messioso
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark635 Posts
August 27 2017 22:10 GMT
#38
Does cleanse remove stim?
Former ESL League Operations. I ran IEM/WCS for like 3 years or something. I did map vetos on a tablet. That guy.
OGamingTV SC2
Profile Joined March 2013
France84 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-27 23:09:10
August 27 2017 23:07 GMT
#39
No, it doesn't. It works on Storm, Neural Parasite, Fungal Growth, Dark Swarm, Irradiate and Lockdown.
O'GamingTV Crew !
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10055 Posts
August 27 2017 23:23 GMT
#40
infestor tunnel looks really cool. one thing i dont like is giving one unit many spells, in this case the sentry have 4 of them, guardian shield, force field, replicator and halluc, imo that too much. overall it looks fun, great work!
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Masemium
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands33 Posts
August 28 2017 06:27 GMT
#41
In my mind spellcasters should always only have two spells and that's it. A "weak" spell that is easy to spam (25~50 energy?) and a "strong" spell that turns tides of battles, but is very energy heavy (125~150?)

I know it's cool and all to have hundreds of spells on a caster (Blizzard seems to think so too?), but you have to take playability and readability in mind. Also choice making. The more sh*t a unit can do, the longer it will take to, well, master this unit. Having just 1 weak spell and 1 strong spell tells the player "oh this first spell I can mass spam all day long, and the other I have to carefully look for when to use it"

I don't know if this is another idea for mod-makers: for a while now I have been uh ... steering away from Energy as a resource. Some units having a energy bar to keep tabs on is just another one of those things that imho clog the game. So I got rid of all energy bars. Spells are on a timer, can have a use count, can cost minerals/gas, can cost even HP to use, and so on.

Here's another thing I'm going to change: spells that require an unlock research. Is that really cool? How about spellcasters having all spells available from the get go, but some of them are weak out of the gate. Research a spell makes it stronger / more potent (aka up to current standards). Might be more "fun" than a simple unlock key.

As for F2-baby army select, what I always do: any unit that does not have a simple unit-vs-unit auto attack: is not army select. This includes transports, overseers, observers, all spellcasters, swarm hosts, etc. No attack = no army select for you. While this still doesn't completely end F2 ctrl+A, it does atleast give you more of an incentive to manage your non-army units.
Sentou junbi!
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-28 21:23:51
August 28 2017 12:25 GMT
#42
I don't understand the hype about this mod.
Videos are qualitative but the changes, come on.

This is the mix of WoL/HotS/Brood War abilities which were boring or people whined about or just outdated. Vortex, really? It was the most broken thing in the game. Easier to make nuke? It's already twice easier to make it than in Brood War. Suicidal Herc looks like imba. Replication is imba in square. Cleance just doesn't fit Starcraft at all. Fast Broodlord, for what?

I don't say that all of these changes are bad. There are some changes that maybe should be tested. But overall it looks like you compiled all the old abilities that were in previous versions of the game and which didn't make it to the final cut (because Blizzard already tested it)

No offence, you made a good job making these videos, just my thoughts.
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
Chaden
Profile Joined August 2017
5 Posts
August 28 2017 15:37 GMT
#43
On August 28 2017 06:34 OGamingTV SC2 wrote:
We'll be hosting the first tournament next week, starting with 2 Open Qualifiers! We'll provide a 500€ cash prize for the tournament.

Qualifier 1
Monday, Aug 28 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) - Register here

Qualifier 2
Tuesday, Aug 29 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) - Register here

--

Group A
Thursday, Aug 31 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Group B
Friday, Sep 01 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Playoffs
Sunday, Sep 03 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)


We already explained why we did this mod, but perhaps it was lost in the first big post, or in the 2 following posts we made :D
So, to explain it again: we did not create this mod to inspire Blizzard. If Blizzard wishes to implement some of our changes, good. If not, that's fine. Our goal is to create another way to play LotV, and organize competitions on it that will bring a different kind of entertainment, with new moves you won't be able to see anywhere else. If you're not interested, nobody forces you to watch :D


Thanks guys. Can't wait to watch games on Powered mod.
ROOTCatZ
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Peru1226 Posts
August 28 2017 15:54 GMT
#44
Super fun changes / cool ideas, really refreshing, if this was the end of the year patch by blizzard (+economy change for the absolute dream) idk if I could sleep from the excitement.
Progamerwww.root-gaming.com
DrunkenSCV
Profile Joined November 2016
76 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-28 18:37:57
August 28 2017 18:29 GMT
#45
What you are doing guys is great, but to be honest I don't believe (although, I would love you to prove me wrong) that this mod will be popular for a long period of time. I like the ideas but I realize that it will take much time to figure out how things work in your mod. LotV itself has less changes than you suggest and I remember that it took about 3-4 month or so to get used to it.
I love worker count change, I would try it out. If there were additionally few little changes, I would love to try them too. But you suggest so much to learn for a new player. It may be better if you implement the changes portionally. If you see they are good, you implement some more.
Or maybe I am just afraid of new things, like most people are. Well, I guess I should try the mod.
Masemium
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands33 Posts
August 28 2017 20:03 GMT
#46
Well I believe one of the main chains holding LotV down is "less is more". I also believe this problems exists because SC2 was made as a trilogy, and every seperate episode had to be sold with tags like "new units! new abilities! more more more!", while the first episode (WoL) was already a proper complete game with enough things to do as it is. So we started out with WoL, then HotS was tasked with expanding an already complete package, and then we got LotV which had to expand again. Couple this with internal jibberjabber where Blizzard didn't really know what to do with some units, and now we're stuck with an almost convulated game LotV.

Going back to the basics is always a good idea. A lot of units in LotV don't simply need a bandaid fix or another spell added to combat 1 specific enemy build, but every unit needs proper revaluation and work up from there.

Any mod that would endorse this "less is more" would have my blessings.

Sentou junbi!
TrainingDay
Profile Joined August 2017
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-30 16:50:26
August 30 2017 16:49 GMT
#47
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-30 18:18:55
August 30 2017 18:18 GMT
#48
On August 26 2017 11:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.


Flying tanks came from Starbow. Okay, not a good exemple but they did pick stuff from some mods
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
August 31 2017 09:04 GMT
#49
On August 31 2017 03:18 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 11:25 404AlphaSquad wrote:
On August 26 2017 03:29 Kerdinand wrote:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....

Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.


If you think this mod makes the game like BW then you have never played BW. Also some people enjoy making mods even if there is not a huge community behind it. And nobody who mods actually believes that Blizzard is going to implement these changes. They have never done that and never will. They already do not listen to community feedback and always do what they want, so there is no reason to assume a mod will change their mindset on design.


Flying tanks came from Starbow. Okay, not a good exemple but they did pick stuff from some mods


There is a lot more in LotV from Starbow than that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2lrh9o/thoughts_and_ideas_from_starbow_in_legacy_of_the/
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
August 31 2017 09:57 GMT
#50
broodlord infestor should be pretty broken with this mod...
imData
Profile Joined February 2013
France32 Posts
August 31 2017 16:23 GMT
#51
On August 31 2017 18:57 KOtical wrote:
broodlord infestor should be pretty broken with this mod...


It's actually not broken that much
kevin5220
Profile Joined September 2017
1 Post
September 06 2017 18:44 GMT
#52
Hey I love this mod well played to you guys and so I was there for test with you this mod and that was just amazing I had an amazing moment with you guys ! This mod is making us so much fun and quite balanced ! And the news spells and units make the game more interesting !

Wp VisionElf and Anoss for this mod !
Kenny_mk
Profile Joined May 2015
50 Posts
September 06 2017 19:14 GMT
#53
Semi Finals & Finals right now on : http://www.ogaming.tv/stream/starcraft-2

pretty good games so far
CynicalDeath
Profile Joined January 2012
Italy3363 Posts
September 06 2017 21:36 GMT
#54
#Reynoronfire
ModeratorSC2 LP Admin - My Life for Aiur - Let the Metal flow - @Cynical_Death
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