• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:47
CEST 03:47
KST 10:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL27Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)2Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)31
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2) CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) DreamHack Dallas 2025 Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle.net is not working BW General Discussion Which player typ excels at which race or match up?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Monster Hunter Wilds Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12476 users

Korea Weekly - July 9th - VSL Mock Draft

Forum Index > SC2 General
21 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 Next All

Korea Weekly - July 9th - VSL Mock Draft

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
July 9th, 2017 13:09 GMT
  • Korea Weekly
  • Weekly Focus


The Weekly Preview

by TheOneAboveU
[image loading] - TheOneAboveU

With VSL having concluded its second season last week, we are back to the regular duality of starleagues in Korea: SSL Premier and Challenge continue with their weekly high-profile matches, while Code S presents us with two all-Korean groups—the first ones after the Foreigner double-attack last week.


A Kingdom for a Machine

Current SSL champion INnoVation now also holds the VSL title after his decisive, awe-inspiring victory over soO in the finals last week. He's now the first man to hold a GSL, SSL and VSL championship (albeit not quite simultaneously just yet), and he's simply continued with his reign of supremacy, giving herO—who’s come up from SSL Challenge—a very explosive welcome into his dominion last week. Like last season, it's INnoVation and Dark who top the standings after Week 1, alongside another one of their former SK Telecom T1 colleagues, Classic. Dear and Stats, too could score victories and keep close to the leading triumvirate, while the former playoff contenders ByuL and Solar had to accept early losses.

The field might be shaken up in Week 2, however: INno, Dark and Classic all meet Week 1 losers, making them favourites to create some distance between the three of them and their pursuers, who’ll have to fight among themselves to keep up and thus split up the rankings.

Mirror match connoisseurs will be especially pleased with the line-up for Week 2, as there will be one high-quality series for every race mirror: Long-time rivals ByuL and Solar meet once more—the two of them have over 50 competitive maps against each other behind them—with the Splyce player looking to go into it as the favourite. For Protoss, Dear and Stats go into the ring, and while Stats might have a slight historic advantage, Dear is in top form at the moment and shows a much better recent record against Protoss players, while Stats had to take in some PvP losses. Finally, the champion INnoVation fights aLive in what will certainly be an uphill battle for the latter one, even though he’s shown in the past that he’s able to compete with INnoVation in best of-series.

In the remaining matches, Dark meets herO—surely with the goal of continuing INnoVation’s welcoming celebrations for the ROOT player—and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.


Hot Pursuit

Down in SSL Challenge routine has already taken over, the players have settled in and go after each other’s throats on the regular, weekly basis. In Group A, Bunny has taken the lead after wins over sOs and Patience, but next week he’ll face the pursuer snatching after his heels: soO. The Zerg has taken his shattering loss to INnoVation in VSL with grace—as expected of him, by now—beating jjakji last week to secure his second place in the group. Whoever wins this duel will likely remain the front-runner this entire tournament stage. It would be a great personal step for Bunny, if he could finally show some consistency in his performances, especially against a monster like soO.

In Group B Rogue wasn’t able to shake off his Week 1 loss and fell victim to Hush, whose successful SSL debut should give him a nice confidence boost for Code S, as well as his match against Zest right here in SSL Challenge. Should he pull off another upset, the Protoss will be in a prime position to advance into the next tournament stage. Rogue will have a chance at redeeming himself next week, as he meets Impact. Pack leader ByuN has a break in meantime, so he’ll have to watch how his pursuers—at the moment primarily the surprising duo of Impact and Hush—fight to keep on his tail.


Clear Lines

In both Code S groups for this week the favourites seem clearly established: For Group C soO and aLive are poised to be victorious, for Group D Stats and ByuN stand out among their peers. The competition will be fierce as always, and the four underdogs will not give their ground up lightly, but even they must acknowledge that a difficult uphill battle is their only way to victory.

Hush and Leenock recently were able to pull some unexpected successes out of their wizard's hats, at least. The Protoss qualified for both individual leagues and beat players of the calibre of Dark along the way—not to mention his win over Rogue in SSL only last week—, once more proving the qualities, which made him an effective surprise weapon for CJ Entus back in the Proleague-days. Leenock reached the Top 4 of VSL, edging out Classic in a heavily contested quarterfinal, before being defeated by eventual champion INnoVation—not too shabby a run for the otherwise struggling Zerg.

In the Friday group the ever dangerous Losira is not an easy obstacle. The Zerg hasn’t had the greatest months behind him, but his long experience and adaptability oftentimes let him play above his average level. And then there is the ever-inconsistent Forte, sometimes a rising star, sometimes a complete dud. A victory over ByuL in the qualifiers for Code S makes him a factor to consider when talking about this group, though. He’s one of those players who's able to take a single Best of 3 against a favoured player and massively influence the outcome this way, even though he never really profits of those rare moments himself and then vanishes for a few more months. Those may not be the most solid foundations for upsets, but there have been more miraculous events in SC2’s past.



Weekly Schedule:

MON - SSL Premier - (Z)ByuL vs. (Z)Solar / (P)Dear vs. (P)Stats / (Z)Dark vs. (P)herO / (T)aLive vs. (T)INnoVation / (P)Classic vs. (T)Maru
WED - GSL Code S - Group C: (Z)soO / (P)Hush / (Z)Leenock / (T)aLive
THU - VSL Team League - Draft
FRI - GSL Code S - Group D: (P)Stats / (T)Forte / (Z)Losira / (T)ByuN
FRI - SSL Challenge - (Z)soO vs. (T)Bunny / (Z)Rogue vs. (Z)Impact / (T)jjakji vs. (P)sOs / (P)Hush vs. (P)Zest




VSL Mock Draft

by Mizenhauer
[image loading] - Mizenhauer

Now that (T)INnoVation’s unobstructed march to another first place is complete, fans can turn their attention to the much-awaited team portion of VSL Season 2. The inaugural teamleague was a refreshing cap to the first VSL campaign after (Z)Impact unexpectedly won the individual portion. Fans should expect even more excitement this time around. With the draft only a week away, we decided to return to one of the most adored features of American sports: the mock draft. This season’s player pool is rather shallow. Atop the board are a trio of Starleague champions who are the obvious cream of the crop. Beyond that, the situation is murkier. Only an expert predictor could plumb the depths for answers. You’d have to wait a week to find out for sure, but we at Teamliquid already have a good idea where everyone is going to go.

Team Captains:

(T)INnoVation
(Z)soO
(P)Super
(Z)Leenock


The Pool:

(P)Classic
(P)Creator
(P)Hurricane
(P)Hush
(P)Patience
(T)ByuN
(T)jjakji
(T)Ryung
(Z)Curious
(Z)Impact
(Z)Pet
(Z)Solar




Pick 1: Team (Z)Leenock

(T)ByuN

ByuN should go first off the board for a few reasons. One—a recurring theme throughout the draft—is the need for a captain to diversify their roster. There are three realistic first picks in the draft and given that Solar is also a Zerg, Leenock is left to chose between ByuN and Classic. Given ByuN’s overall quality and the fact that he dominated the last incarnation of the VSL teamleague, earning the most wins at 9, he’s the clear choice.

Pick 2: Team (P)Super

(Z)Solar

Solar should be the next player selected for the same reasons ByuN went to Leenock. He’s the best non-Protoss player available and has shown a lot of strength against Protoss as well as having very versatile ZvT. He’ll be a valuable asset to Super, who doesn’t have the same pedigree as the players taken in the first round.

Pick 3: Team (Z)soO

(P)Classic

As ordained, Classic falls right into good friend soO’s lap. It’s a match made in heaven. Both players have strong matchups vs Protoss and Zerg, while Classic’s recent results against Terran (Maru is his only weakness) should shore up soO’s deficiencies in that matchup.

Pick 4: Team INnoVation

(P)Patience

With that, the last big name comes off the board. Patience has solid PvT and INnoVation would be a fool to leave him available for others to scoop up. Add that to the fact that he is objectively the best player left in the draft and you have a slam dunk pick.

Pick 5: Team INnoVation

(Z)Impact

In a deeper draft INnoVation would benefit from being in the wheel position, but with this player pool he must resign himself to distinctly second-tier options. Needing a Zerg to round out his roster, INnoVation ought to go with the best option remaining: last season’s champion, Impact, who has shown exceptionally striking results against Protoss as of late.

Pick 6: Team soO

(T)jjakji

And just like soO wrote it up, he gets another friend on his roster. Since jjakji helped soO prepare for the final, it’s safe to assume the team captain must have a healthy level of respect for jjakji’s play. It would be no surprise to see soO scoop him up here, even if jjakji isn’t displaying the form that put him on top of the Korean ladder earlier this year.

Pick 7: Team Super

(T)Ryung

With only one Terran remaining, Super is almost obligated to take Ryung. The old stalwart had a bit of a resurgence during Season 1 of GSL, but fell off afterwards. Super will be hoping that the teamleague format can incite another renaissance for a player that has been counted out.

Pick 8: Team Leenock

(P)Creator

Leenock adds a third eSF player to his roster by picking the Jin Air Protoss. Creator actually beat eventual semifinalist Super the first time they met, which should give Leenock faith in the veteran Protoss’ abilities.

Pick 9: Team Leenock

(Z)Curious

Why not? Leenock forms a solid team that looks like something out of the old seasons of GSTL. Curious hasn’t had the most successful year but that’s largely due to inactivity. Since late April, he’s rattled off wins over Dark, Rogue and fellow VSL members Impact and jjakji. It’s these showings that make him a solid pick among the leftovers.

Pick 10: Team Super

(P)Hurricane

Super will gladly snatch up Hurricane, who has had positive results against players not named soO as of late. It’s the all-kill format so Hurricane won’t have to play a big part. He showed he can pick up a win here are there by getting out of Group B in second. All Super needs from him is a few offhand wins, probably by sniping a few Protoss in the mirror matchup.

Pick 11: Team soO

(P)Hush

soO has chosen Hush as his initial opponent for two straight GSL seasons. He’ll make an apology of sorts by allowing Hush to tag along while he and Classic carry the team to victory.

Pick 12: Team INnoVation

(Z)Pet

Being last pick in the draft is a strange honor in American sports, but it’s unclear if the irony translates into Korean competition. Nevertheless, Pet has traded wins with jjakji and Trap over the past two months and logged a win over Losira in their single meeting. These results should give INnoVation hope that Pet, the only player not named Solar to go 0-4 in the individual league, might turn out to be the next Isaiah Thomas.

That makes the final teams:

Team INnoVation:

INnoVation
Patience
Impact
Pet

Team soO:

soO
Classic
jjakji
Hush

Team Super:

Super
Solar
Ryung
Hurricane

Team Leenock:

Leenock
ByuN
Creator
Curious

On paper team soO is the strongest overall, but having an all-star Terran like INnoVation or ByuN can drastically tip the scales in a team's favor. For those who skipped the meat of the article just to get to this part, feel free to comment and tell us what we got wrong. More importantly, make sure to tune into the draft itself on July 13th to see who goes where when more enlightened minds make the picks.







Korea Weekly: TheOneAboveU
Focus: Mizenhauer
Graphics: shiroiusagi
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55509 Posts
July 09 2017 13:53 GMT
#2
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
July 09 2017 14:06 GMT
#3
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft


I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 09 2017 14:32 GMT
#4
I like that you thought about potential picks, but usually it seems like the players don't put in much thought at all :D


SSL will be great as always, after group C (GSL) we probably will have a new UWC btw! So get hyped for that as well ^^
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-09 16:34:02
July 09 2017 16:20 GMT
#5
And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.

Third time's the charm?
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
July 09 2017 17:20 GMT
#6
On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft


I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...


Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?36999 Posts
July 09 2017 22:57 GMT
#7
On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote:
And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.

Third time's the charm?

INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT...
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 09 2017 23:06 GMT
#8
On July 10 2017 07:57 Seeker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote:
And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.

Third time's the charm?

INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT...

Well he said that he improved, so maybe it's good enough now
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
July 09 2017 23:17 GMT
#9
On July 10 2017 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 07:57 Seeker wrote:
On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote:
And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.

Third time's the charm?

INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT...

Well he said that he improved, so maybe it's good enough now

He said that his TvT was better but still not great. Hoping he will defeat aLive in SSL tomorrow, if he can do that (consistently) he should be more or less safe in TvT.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
July 10 2017 12:37 GMT
#10
On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft


I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...


Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane

Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier.
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-10 20:40:34
July 10 2017 20:39 GMT
#11
On July 10 2017 21:37 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:
On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft


I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...


Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane

Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier.

Wonky day for sure, especially those aLive vs Inno games. On the plus side Inno won, albeit through cheese.
Hoping the Machine can continue his rampage through SSL and GSL (though I'm sure the other players will do their best to shunt him into the Group of Death for the third time in a row). And IEM Shanghai, too.

I would love for SC2 to finally witness the Birth of a Bonjwa.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 10 2017 21:44 GMT
#12
I bet even if Inno wins SSL and GSL there still will be people arguing otherwise :D
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1809 Posts
July 10 2017 21:57 GMT
#13
On July 11 2017 05:39 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 21:37 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:
On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.

Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane

I like the mock draft


I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...


Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane

Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier.

Wonky day for sure, especially those aLive vs Inno games. On the plus side Inno won, albeit through cheese.
Hoping the Machine can continue his rampage through SSL and GSL (though I'm sure the other players will do their best to shunt him into the Group of Death for the third time in a row). And IEM Shanghai, too.

I would love for SC2 to finally witness the Birth of a Bonjwa.


You're going to give wax an aneurysm and me a severe neck cramp if you keep throwing that word around.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
hexhaven
Profile Joined July 2014
Finland926 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-10 22:13:51
July 10 2017 22:13 GMT
#14
On July 11 2017 06:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I bet even if Inno wins SSL and GSL there still will be people arguing otherwise :D


If Inno wins both SSL and GSL I'm willing to bet even the grognardiest writers will agree that he's the best player + Show Spoiler +
of LOTV.
WriterI shoot events. | http://www.jussi.co/esports
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 10 2017 22:25 GMT
#15
That addition of "of LOTV" would most likely be unnecessary. I mean there has to be a point where people recognize that the body of work/success at the highest lvl of play (which is korea) is enough to call somebody the best.


About "bonjwa", well it really doesn't matter. The word lost all it's meaning, but winning SSL then GSL and SSL would certainly be up there with the most dominating periods of someone in sc2 ever. That's good enough for me already
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1809 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-10 22:35:45
July 10 2017 22:35 GMT
#16
On July 11 2017 07:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:
That addition of "of LOTV" would most likely be unnecessary. I mean there has to be a point where people recognize that the body of work/success at the highest lvl of play (which is korea) is enough to call somebody the best.


About "bonjwa", well it really doesn't matter. The word lost all it's meaning, but winning SSL then GSL and SSL would certainly be up there with the most dominating periods of someone in sc2 ever. That's good enough for me already


A word doesn't lose meaning just because you decide it does. INnoVation is one of most dominant players in Starcraft 2 history, but there will never be another bonjwa. People should try to come up with some creative ways to praise him instead of just defaulting to a title that isn't even applicable. If I can write a fairly original 1k word article about Inno in a half hour when everyone has been saying the exact same thing about him for four years, I think everyone can manage a sentence or two here and there.

And I don't mean to word that as a personal attack on you because I think you understand what I'm trying to say. All narratives in this game are completely prefabricated. Be it the community or writer's like myself, we are the ones that write Starcraft's history, not the players. With that in mind, let's have a little respect for the legitimate bonjwas who came before INnoVation, keep things in persepctive, and not turn him into something it's impossible to be.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 10 2017 22:47 GMT
#17
So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2?
I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important.

Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1809 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-10 23:07:40
July 10 2017 23:07 GMT
#18
On July 11 2017 07:47 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2?
I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important.

Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point)


I was fortunate enough to read a really well thought out article by (I think) wax (which of course I can't find) that went into this exact subject in great detail.

I forget most of the article (curse my terrible memory), but what I took from it was the the term bonjwa had a real cultural significance and came to be at a very specific period in time (regarding the relationship between Korean culture and esports). When I say that there won't be another bonjwa, I don't mean that there won't be another truly dominant player, merely that the circumstances by which a player can transcend to bonjwa won't be replicated in the modern era of Starcraft 2.

I also think it's silly to quibble over the word in general. Maybe it's just the writer in me, but there has to be a more accurate way to describe INnoVation than a recycled term no one (maybe even myself) understands or can agree upon.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
July 10 2017 23:28 GMT
#19
I mean i don't know where the term acatly stemmed from, but at the end of the day it's just a word describing player who dominate the scene. What "dominating" means, that's probably up to discussion. But i think it's a bit silly to argue you are only allowed to use it when the there is full moon in the year of the ape.
It's really just a word.

Why people want to use it? Well it has history in starcraft and it quite frankly sounds nice. If it was about me i would define quite clear criteria, but at this point some people argue Mvp was a bonjwa, others say it could be applied to even more people in sc2, some deny the possibility of using it ever for anyone in sc2, etc. It's a mess and i don't care enough about the term tbh.


With that being said, it's fun to imagine a scenario where we get a real dominant player, Innovation is quite clearly the obvious choice. Defending the SSL title alone would be really nice, winning the GSL at the same time would be incredibly huge. I hope it happens.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-11 01:56:22
July 10 2017 23:55 GMT
#20
On July 11 2017 08:07 mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2017 07:47 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2?
I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important.

Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point)


I was fortunate enough to read a really well thought out article by (I think) wax (which of course I can't find) that went into this exact subject in great detail.

I forget most of the article (curse my terrible memory), but what I took from it was the the term bonjwa had a real cultural significance and came to be at a very specific period in time (regarding the relationship between Korean culture and esports). When I say that there won't be another bonjwa, I don't mean that there won't be another truly dominant player, merely that the circumstances by which a player can transcend to bonjwa won't be replicated in the modern era of Starcraft 2.

I also think it's silly to quibble over the word in general. Maybe it's just the writer in me, but there has to be a more accurate way to describe INnoVation than a recycled term no one (maybe even myself) understands or can agree upon.

It's certainly possible that "본좌" as a Korean first-person pronoun will never again be applied to any player in Starcraft 2 (or even Brood War), no matter how dominant they become, simply because the era for that term has passed, just like the term "horseless carriage" is no longer used to refer to automobiles (and even that term is rare, it's just "car" now).

That being said, "bonjwa" as an English loanword from "본좌" has been generalized and culturally mutated to the point where I would argue it is safe to use for any sufficiently dominant player that might arise at some future time.

It was in the latter context that I (and most everybody who is not native Korean) use the term "bonjwa," and that being the case I don't see the problem with using it as such, any more than I see any problem with using the hundreds of other loanwords that have crept into the (Modern) English language over the centuries.

I cannot imagine that people don't realize that there are (major) differences in the way progamers are viewed by Korean and foreign audiences. Should we call INnoVation "Bread-Shin-Hyung" instead of "The Machine" or "Lü Bu", as the Chinese refer to him? Perhaps Roman transliterations themselves are too far of a leap, and we must stick to 빵신형 and 呂布 instead?

That being the case, were INnoVation display such dominance to the degree that he wins SSL Season 2, GSL Season 3, and Blizzcon (back-to-back SSL champion, GSL prestige, and Blizzcon publicity), I personally would be confident in making the argument that he is in fact the first bonjwa of Starcraft 2, even if the Koreans would never call him such.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 164
Nina 110
Ketroc 64
ProTech51
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 31
Icarus 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1742
LuMiX1
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor204
Other Games
tarik_tv11287
summit1g8774
shahzam858
ViBE197
Livibee73
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick891
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 54
• gosughost_ 15
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki59
• RayReign 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4344
• Shiphtur340
• Stunt320
Upcoming Events
Online Event
2h 13m
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
7h 13m
Road to EWC
14h 13m
BSL Season 20
16h 13m
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Bellum Gens Elite
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Bellum Gens Elite
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Bellum Gens Elite
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Bellum Gens Elite
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.