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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On June 27 2017 14:23 AshC wrote: What do you expect from Terran? OP race but since they can't win it all, balance whine is their extra skill they practice on the side as well. No matter how much you dislike terran players, it's unfair to associate them with Avilo. | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
On June 27 2017 12:28 youngjiddle wrote: still not happy with the map pool in zerg's favor. I slightly blame TL for doing their map making contest and having a category like "rush maps". can we never do that again and let people make only great maps? TLMC having a Rush Map category isn't what leads to a map pool that favors Zerg, that's not really how that works. There are some flaws with TLMC that were talked about a bit after the last one, but I don't think any of those issues lead to the current map pool favoring Zerg. | ||
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Creager
Germany1966 Posts
On June 27 2017 16:23 Vanadiel wrote: No matter how much you dislike terran players, it's unfair to associate them with Avilo. Exactly, that's really a bit harsh. Also please consider that there are two different breeds of Terran players, us mere mortals aka Foreigners, who can't win shit at tourneys whatsoever (even welfare didn't really help with that) and those gods in Korea who show us how the game is played properly. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 27 2017 12:28 youngjiddle wrote: I slightly blame TL for doing their map making contest and having a category like "rush maps". can we never do that again and let people make only great maps? This is not TL's fault, Blizzard made the categories. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
And of course at some point changes are nice just to shake things up, see Dota. | ||
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RandomAccount#399514
Spain53 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On June 27 2017 17:15 Olli wrote: A bit disappointing not to see anything at least. PvZ could probably use some looking at, even if it isn't horrible by any means. And of course at some point changes are nice just to shake things up, see Dota. No changes at all can also be good, see BroodWar. ^^ | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On June 27 2017 17:15 Olli wrote: A bit disappointing not to see anything at least. PvZ could probably use some looking at, even if it isn't horrible by any means. And of course at some point changes are nice just to shake things up, see Dota. Or lack of changes is nice, see SC:BW. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
BW was a much different game, one where maps created diversity. That can't really be said for SC2, maps usually create more problems than anything else ;( | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On June 27 2017 17:37 Olli wrote: BW was a much different game, one where maps created diversity. That can't really be said for SC2, maps usually create more problems than anything else ;( SC2 is already more diverse than BW in every matchup :o. Don't need game changes for new strategies to emerge, just let players figure things out. And it's not like it hasn't happened in SC2 before, WoL and HotS didn't see nearly as many changes as LotV and the game was evolving even during long patchless periods (and often just by rotating in and out maps) | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
As far as I am concerned, I (finally) managed to adapt to all these proceedings and my mmr is higher than ever before, which gives me a more relaxed view on the game. Still, I don't like it. Concidering everything I remember that Blizz said about design goals for SC2, they actually reached those. To summarize it: The game is supposed to be over in a heartbeat, as soon as a player mined enough gas to have 16 3/3/3 carriers out on the map. The reasoning is: the game is taking too long. It is not supposed to go back and forth. It's supposed to be over quickly, so that more games can be played and tournaments may stick to schedules more reliably. If WoL and HotS were like chess, they added a rule for LotV that check is immediately mate, without the chance for the other player to react. Before, in "normal" games, hardly anything would happen before 7-8 minutes into the game. Today, we have "normal" games that are de facto over after 7-8 minutes into the game. While many people may call this more dynamic and thus desireable, others don't (hello viewing figures and active players count). This is nothing that is reflected in win rates. When people talk about balance here, they often talk about being able to react to something, in order to keep going and still have a chance at winning the particular match. This is not how SC2 works anymore. You are supposed to lose quickly, but win the next match just as quickly, in order to have a balanced win rate and go into an exciting decider coin flip^W^W match, in your BO3 series. | ||
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gTank
Austria2671 Posts
On June 27 2017 17:50 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: This entire LOTV thing started out with P being (called) OP. Instead of making P reasonable, Zerg was buffed into entirely new spheres, while pushing T further and further into the gimmickiest of gameplays imagineable. To round things off, we get the current map pool. As far as I am concerned, I (finally) managed to adapt to all these proceedings and my mmr is higher than ever before, which gives me a more relaxed view on the game. Still, I don't like it. Concidering everything I remember that Blizz said about design goals for SC2, they actually reached those. To summarize it: The game is supposed to be over in a heartbeat, as soon as a player mined enough gas to have 16 3/3/3 carriers out on the map. The reasoning is: the game is taking too long. It is not supposed to go back and forth. It's supposed to be over quickly, so that more games can be played and tournaments may stick to schedules more reliably. If WoL and HotS were like chess, they added a rule for LotV that check is immediately mate, without the chance for the other player to react. Before, in "normal" games, hardly anything would happen before 7-8 minutes into the game. Today, we have "normal" games that are de facto over after 7-8 minutes into the game. While many people may call this more dynamic and thus desireable, others don't (hello viewing figures and active players count). This is nothing that is reflected in win rates. When people talk about balance here, they often talk about being able to react to something, in order to keep going and still have a chance at winning the particular match. This is not how SC2 works anymore. You are supposed to lose quickly, but win the next match just as quickly, in order to have a balanced win rate and go into an exciting decider coin flip^W^W match, in your BO3 series. I agree with this post, games are over too fast. Personally, the game is not as fun to play as it was in WoL (from the pacing, not the OP compositions that needed to get nerfed) | ||
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
Eeeeezzzz money for game balance team | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
On June 27 2017 18:26 Vipermagi wrote: Funny thing is that some people here are actually happy with blizzard doing no changes to gameplay LOL The Funny thing is that no matter what Blizzard does, the majority of people in this forum is actually happy with Blizzard and hates on people who are not. | ||
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Creager
Germany1966 Posts
On June 27 2017 18:26 Vipermagi wrote: No balance changes since 8 months, some map tweaks nobody cares about. Funny thing is that some people here are actually happy with blizzard doing no changes to gameplay LOL Eeeeezzzz money for game balance team The approach of doing no additional/minimal changes after a good balance is established as a concept and people being fine with the current state of LOTV are very different things. While I generally prefer the philosophy of leaving the game alone I am not happy with quite a few things in the game currently, but these are more of a core design nature like 12 worker start and fewer minerals per base, which for me personally lead to an unpleasant playing experience compared to the previous iterations of SC2. Since we're pretty far down the road with the latest expansion everyone who still plays the game has adopted, thus any more fundamental game changes are pretty much out of question IMO, Blizzard seems to care way more about squeezing some more bucks out of the player base and it seems to work out for them. Latest Community Updates are sadly implying the only things left to look at are some map adjustments, which further nurtures my impression that after David Kim left the rest of the SC2 team is in lowest-effort-maintenance mode. | ||
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Beliskner
111 Posts
On June 27 2017 18:45 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: The Funny thing is that no matter what Blizzard does, the majority of people in this forum is actually happy with Blizzard and hates on people who are not. Yeh 8 months and literally no changes.... like NONE 23 May 2017 3.14.0 Terran Thor Thor armor increased from 1 to 2. Thor morph times reduced from 2.5 to 1.79. Raven Auto-Turret damage reduced from 24 to 18. Auto-Turret duration increased from 7.14 to 10. Protoss Tempest Kinetic Overload damage increased from 30 (+14 massive) to 30 (+22 massive). Void Ray Prismatic Alignment slows the Void Ray by 40% while active. Zealot Charge upgrade cost lowered from 200/200 to 100/100. Zerg Roach Undetected burrow move visual effects are now more visible. Infestor Undetected burrow move visual effects are now be more visible. 28 March 2017 3.12.0 Protoss Adept Maximum Health reduced from 80 to 70. 7 March 2017 3.11.0 Terran Reaper KD8 Charge cooldown increased from 7 seconds to 14 seconds. Widow Mine Splash damage +shield bonus reduced from +40 to +25 Zerg Hydralisk Health increased from 80 to 90 Corruptor Movement speed changed from 4.1343 to 4.725 Acceleration speed changed from 3.675 to 4.2 Parasite Spore weapon damage point changed from .1193 to .0446 31 January 2017 3.10.1 Terran Liberator Concord Cannon damage changed from 85 to 75. 20 December 2016 3.9.1 Zerg Baneling "Evolve Centrifugal Hooks" will now grant +5 health instead of +10. Protoss Carrier Interceptors cost increased from 5 to 10 minerals. November 3.8.0 Patch Oh wait... it's actually full of things that the community has been whining about for ages.. things like air toss nerfs, raven nerfs, adept nerfs, reaper nerfs... which was all preceded by things that everyone wanted like the siege tank buff... Not everyone is completely happy with every direction or change blizzard makes but you could at least open your eyes to reality the majority of people in this forum is actually happy with Blizzard and hates on people who are not. And you say that but...how is it then that 90% of these threads is people just whining about how blizzard hasn't nerfed their personally most hated unit yet. I think maybe if the majority of the community had a longer than 2 second memory they would be able enjoy this game more. On June 27 2017 17:15 Olli wrote: BW was a much different game, one where maps created diversity. That can't really be said for SC2, maps usually create more problems than anything else ;( Yeh all that diversity.... like Fighting Spirit and.. uhh Circuit Breaker? Oh wait right.. Broodwar maps are even more restricted by balance...... | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On June 27 2017 12:21 Ryu3600 wrote: I think some people will disagree with this opinion but I think burrowed infestors being able to cast fungal is too strong haha. If you don't got ravens (Which unless you went for skymech, its useless, it'll die to corruptors) you're kind of screwed.. its hard to notice even with the changes and its just too strong.. I feel like a good way to change it would be to take away burrow cast, or to make the travel speed slower. I am not a pro though so my solution isn't the best suggestion out there  It is strong but I'm not sure it needs a nerf, I think overall zvt is in a good state of ballance right now. Terran can just play around burrow fungal as well. If you know it's coming you can split up your army before you walk across the map. The only time it's really a problem is if Zerg can catch you off guard with it, but usualy you will have some sense that he at least could of have made some burrowed investors and you need to watch for them. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On June 27 2017 19:20 Beliskner wrote: And you say that but...how is it then that 90% of these threads is people just whining about how blizzard hasn't nerfed their personally most hated unit yet. I think maybe if the majority of the community had a longer than 2 second memory they would be able enjoy this game more... I think those people who are okay with what blizzard are doing are not saying anything in those threads because they don't have to. I for one am okay with how it is and the only things I comment on is unreasonable behavior and interesting points that have not so much to do with balance. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On June 27 2017 17:15 Olli wrote: A bit disappointing not to see anything at least. PvZ could probably use some looking at, even if it isn't horrible by any means. And of course at some point changes are nice just to shake things up, see Dota. I feel like the thing that makes mobas able to deal with drastic changes is the very system. If they come in and make someone hilariously OP, everyone just vetos that character, and balance is restored. In sc2, you don't have that option. You can vote against maps, but even then it doesn't give a 100% chance of not playing there. If they make enormous changes and make a race OP, then everyone else just has a miserable time until it's fixed | ||
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
Beliskner wrote: Oh wait... it's actually full of things that the community has been whining about for ages.. things like air toss nerfs, raven nerfs, adept nerfs, reaper nerfs... which was all preceded by things that everyone wanted like the siege tank buff... Talking about adept nerf? lolz -10hp nerf and still every toss composition have like 90% adepts in it Air toss nerfs? skytoss is still considered braindead comp with no good counter play Reaper nerf? Increased cd on grenades changed nothing at all, this unit still ruin early tvt games Siege tank buff? where is it? cant see it in your post (even though siege tanks are trash anyways outside tvt) Adding +1 armor to thor or increasing cooldown on reaper grenades are indeed sick gameplay changes. And it took "only" 8 months to make change which is another sick example. Blizzard dont care abut zerg being easier to play and dominating foreign ladders / tournaments, in post u made I can only see terran / protoss nerfs and zerg buffs wtf is this !? These are not balance changes community wants | ||
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