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Austria24422 Posts
On May 06 2017 17:15 DinosaurPoop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 22:57 Olli wrote:On May 05 2017 22:45 Nakajin wrote:On May 03 2017 11:05 JackONeill wrote:By the time BlizzCon rolled around, every single caster of note banded together to systematically erase all memory of StarCraft 2 prior to that moment. The agreed upon tagline was “highest skill era”. They had an unspoken contract to be as relentlessly optimistic as possible, and that involved praising all aspects of the game at a breathless pace. Since ByuN was the latest Terran champion he had to be the greatest Terran in the game’s history. Maru's micro against Protoss was irrelevant. GuMiho's drop harass was too boring to remember. TaeJa’s reactionary prowess was left unmentioned; beyond early ravager pushes, Terran didn’t even bother to defend anymore. The casters drilled this rhetoric into the minds of the community every chance they got. Whether it was a proper reaction to events was besides the point. It culminated in a Dada-esque scene where Tasteless and Artosis were transformed into gushing cheerleaders over ByuN target-firing slow banes off creep. Listening to their praise alone you’d think it was the epitome of TvZ fights. Also, what we have to notice is that the level of analysis by casters dropped hugely since WOL. I've seen Dark rolling over every single terran during HOTS with banes/roaches/corruptors because everyone was going biomine because marine/tanks sucked against mutas, and i've never heard a single caster mention that. Only that "Dark is the best TvZ in the world !". And with LOTV, it's even worse. I've heard casters say countless time that gateball can't beat bio with medivacs and stim, and act baffled when a protoss player did, praising him in a general way with no explanation whatsoever. More specifically, i've never heard any caster talk about the huge influence of guardian shield, the 1 native armor on the adept the marauder nerf. How bio vs gateball fights usually revolved around guardian shield heavily lowering marauder attacks, or how some terran players manually position the marauders in front against adept heavy compositions to protect the marines. I've seen Maru destroy adept/sentries army with that, but without the casters even mentionning it. It'd be like WOL casters commentating bio/vikings vs gate/colossi fight without explaning mentionning how did the vikings perform against the colossi. I guess it's because casters don't really play the game as much as before? Or that they're less interested in the game? I dunno, and maybe i missed some good analysis during casts, but to conclude i'd say players are praised mainly on their execution and not the other components of their play, and that both those aspects and the execution are often not analysed at all, with casters only chanting the "Byun/Zest/Dark/etc is sooooo gooooood". The state of the game, the players, everything is dumbed down to being "sooo goood". The caster now are way better and play the game more then at any era, we use to have people like Husky, Kaelaris, Apollo or even HOTS Day 9 who barelly played the game. Now outside of Tastless, all the caster are High Master or GM at the game and played a hell of a lot of games. In Austin all the caster were GM level player (outside of maybe Maynard I don't really now his level). Apollo was GM or at least top masters with random, and the best caster SC2 ever had in my book. I mean ToD once casted WCS while still in Premier league, so did HuK iirc.
Apollo was a better commentator than them, though.
As for the post above me, just wanted to say that Life's dominance in early 2015 had nothing to do with SHs. It was him dismantling every Terran with muta/ling/bane. Then people started meching, and he was never really good against that.
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On May 06 2017 19:24 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 17:15 DinosaurPoop wrote:On May 05 2017 22:57 Olli wrote:On May 05 2017 22:45 Nakajin wrote:On May 03 2017 11:05 JackONeill wrote:By the time BlizzCon rolled around, every single caster of note banded together to systematically erase all memory of StarCraft 2 prior to that moment. The agreed upon tagline was “highest skill era”. They had an unspoken contract to be as relentlessly optimistic as possible, and that involved praising all aspects of the game at a breathless pace. Since ByuN was the latest Terran champion he had to be the greatest Terran in the game’s history. Maru's micro against Protoss was irrelevant. GuMiho's drop harass was too boring to remember. TaeJa’s reactionary prowess was left unmentioned; beyond early ravager pushes, Terran didn’t even bother to defend anymore. The casters drilled this rhetoric into the minds of the community every chance they got. Whether it was a proper reaction to events was besides the point. It culminated in a Dada-esque scene where Tasteless and Artosis were transformed into gushing cheerleaders over ByuN target-firing slow banes off creep. Listening to their praise alone you’d think it was the epitome of TvZ fights. Also, what we have to notice is that the level of analysis by casters dropped hugely since WOL. I've seen Dark rolling over every single terran during HOTS with banes/roaches/corruptors because everyone was going biomine because marine/tanks sucked against mutas, and i've never heard a single caster mention that. Only that "Dark is the best TvZ in the world !". And with LOTV, it's even worse. I've heard casters say countless time that gateball can't beat bio with medivacs and stim, and act baffled when a protoss player did, praising him in a general way with no explanation whatsoever. More specifically, i've never heard any caster talk about the huge influence of guardian shield, the 1 native armor on the adept the marauder nerf. How bio vs gateball fights usually revolved around guardian shield heavily lowering marauder attacks, or how some terran players manually position the marauders in front against adept heavy compositions to protect the marines. I've seen Maru destroy adept/sentries army with that, but without the casters even mentionning it. It'd be like WOL casters commentating bio/vikings vs gate/colossi fight without explaning mentionning how did the vikings perform against the colossi. I guess it's because casters don't really play the game as much as before? Or that they're less interested in the game? I dunno, and maybe i missed some good analysis during casts, but to conclude i'd say players are praised mainly on their execution and not the other components of their play, and that both those aspects and the execution are often not analysed at all, with casters only chanting the "Byun/Zest/Dark/etc is sooooo gooooood". The state of the game, the players, everything is dumbed down to being "sooo goood". The caster now are way better and play the game more then at any era, we use to have people like Husky, Kaelaris, Apollo or even HOTS Day 9 who barelly played the game. Now outside of Tastless, all the caster are High Master or GM at the game and played a hell of a lot of games. In Austin all the caster were GM level player (outside of maybe Maynard I don't really now his level). Apollo was GM or at least top masters with random, and the best caster SC2 ever had in my book. I mean ToD once casted WCS while still in Premier league, so did HuK iirc. Apollo was a better commentator than them, though. As for the post above me, just wanted to say that Life's dominance in early 2015 had nothing to do with SHs. It was him dismantling every Terran with muta/ling/bane. Then people started meching, and he was never really good against that.
His slump ("slump"?) already started well before almost every TvZ in Korea was mech, too. And it's not like he ever relied much on SH to win ZvP.
Agreed on Apollo, miss his casting.
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On May 06 2017 19:24 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 17:15 DinosaurPoop wrote:On May 05 2017 22:57 Olli wrote:On May 05 2017 22:45 Nakajin wrote:On May 03 2017 11:05 JackONeill wrote:By the time BlizzCon rolled around, every single caster of note banded together to systematically erase all memory of StarCraft 2 prior to that moment. The agreed upon tagline was “highest skill era”. They had an unspoken contract to be as relentlessly optimistic as possible, and that involved praising all aspects of the game at a breathless pace. Since ByuN was the latest Terran champion he had to be the greatest Terran in the game’s history. Maru's micro against Protoss was irrelevant. GuMiho's drop harass was too boring to remember. TaeJa’s reactionary prowess was left unmentioned; beyond early ravager pushes, Terran didn’t even bother to defend anymore. The casters drilled this rhetoric into the minds of the community every chance they got. Whether it was a proper reaction to events was besides the point. It culminated in a Dada-esque scene where Tasteless and Artosis were transformed into gushing cheerleaders over ByuN target-firing slow banes off creep. Listening to their praise alone you’d think it was the epitome of TvZ fights. Also, what we have to notice is that the level of analysis by casters dropped hugely since WOL. I've seen Dark rolling over every single terran during HOTS with banes/roaches/corruptors because everyone was going biomine because marine/tanks sucked against mutas, and i've never heard a single caster mention that. Only that "Dark is the best TvZ in the world !". And with LOTV, it's even worse. I've heard casters say countless time that gateball can't beat bio with medivacs and stim, and act baffled when a protoss player did, praising him in a general way with no explanation whatsoever. More specifically, i've never heard any caster talk about the huge influence of guardian shield, the 1 native armor on the adept the marauder nerf. How bio vs gateball fights usually revolved around guardian shield heavily lowering marauder attacks, or how some terran players manually position the marauders in front against adept heavy compositions to protect the marines. I've seen Maru destroy adept/sentries army with that, but without the casters even mentionning it. It'd be like WOL casters commentating bio/vikings vs gate/colossi fight without explaning mentionning how did the vikings perform against the colossi. I guess it's because casters don't really play the game as much as before? Or that they're less interested in the game? I dunno, and maybe i missed some good analysis during casts, but to conclude i'd say players are praised mainly on their execution and not the other components of their play, and that both those aspects and the execution are often not analysed at all, with casters only chanting the "Byun/Zest/Dark/etc is sooooo gooooood". The state of the game, the players, everything is dumbed down to being "sooo goood". The caster now are way better and play the game more then at any era, we use to have people like Husky, Kaelaris, Apollo or even HOTS Day 9 who barelly played the game. Now outside of Tastless, all the caster are High Master or GM at the game and played a hell of a lot of games. In Austin all the caster were GM level player (outside of maybe Maynard I don't really now his level). Apollo was GM or at least top masters with random, and the best caster SC2 ever had in my book. I mean ToD once casted WCS while still in Premier league, so did HuK iirc. Apollo was a better commentator than them, though. As for the post above me, just wanted to say that Life's dominance in early 2015 had nothing to do with SHs. It was him dismantling every Terran with muta/ling/bane. Then people started meching, and he was never really good against that.
Yeah but people started meching because of the SH nerf so Life's slump was at least partly caused by a balance change.
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On May 05 2017 13:07 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 02:54 207aicila wrote:On May 03 2017 21:02 Olli wrote:On May 03 2017 20:11 Locutos wrote:
Interesting.
But a lot of the stereotypes are fed from the classifications given by TL writers, like the Bomber Law, Royal roaders and so on... We have little to no influence on what casters, other community figures, other websites (Reddit) or even the community itself come up with or turn into a "thing" that sticks around. I guess no one remembers that cringy forced meme of "elfi is god" which was shitposted even by staff members.  you're illiterate if that's what you got from this article
Nice insult man, I wasn't even talking about the article though.
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On May 06 2017 18:13 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 10:09 RKC wrote:I wonder if players like Inno, Zest, and even sOs can be classed as 'impact' players. In sports, they're players who, on their best day, are unstoppable. But on other days, they look mortal, a shade of their true self. So they can go through periods of mediocrity, yet constantly hit peaks of absolute dominance. In SC2, this happens because their true skill lies in finding an element in the gameplay or meta that suits their play-style (whether macro, micro, game-sense, etc.), and 'abusing' it to a point where others cannot reach. And the reason why their highs and lows fluctuates so much is due to the constant patch and meta changes in SC2. (Sorry, I wish I can explain this better, but I've only had my first coffee of the morning  ) Agree with this, some people say the reason why nobody has been able to dominate sc2 the same way Flash/Jaedong etc have dominated bw is because the game is more "volatile" but I don't agree with this. I mean we have seen periods where a player was extremely dominant in a specific meta (PartinG 2015 pvt, Zest early 2016 pvt, Inno 2013 tvz, soO zvz) but they aren't able to keep it up because the meta always changes and the things that made them dominate aren't as important anymore. Think about it: Inno was extremely dominant in 2013 then mines got nerfed - he couldn't adapt and slumped. Zest dominated 2014 then among other changes widow mines got rebuffed + added shield damage - he couldn't adapt and slumped. Life dominated late 2014/early 2015 then Swarmhosts got nerfed - he couldn't adapt and slumped. I believe if we wouldn't have those constant balance changes the players at the top would be much more stable. I don't even think Flash would have been able to become a bonjwa in bw if the game would be patched like sc2. + Show Spoiler +And if BL/ Infestor wouldn't have been nerfed every gsl final would be Sniper vs RorO 
Thanks, good to know I'm not alone feeling this
I can imagine how frustrating it can be, being a pro in SC2. You spend hours practising and refining a particular skill to give you an edge, pull ahead of the pack... only for your 'edge' to get nerfed. Sure, all sports do evolve over time (e.g. slower tennis courts killing off serve-and-volley play-style), but at least the meta changes more gradually which giving ample time for pros to adapt. In SC2, meta changes are so much more sudden and quicker.
In a sense, SC2 patches (even within a particular expansion i.e. WoL, HoTS and LoTV) seem to 'reset' the game altogether. So it's not really surprising even the greatest pros can't keep up their form.
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I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game.
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On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game.
100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think.
Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along
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On May 09 2017 16:47 xtorn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game. 100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think. Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along
I think Life did more damage than he helped. Life was fantastic but the fact that he was fantastic is what made him being a matchfixer that much worse. If he didn't exist someone else would be the second greatest player of all time, but we might not have had our Savior
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On May 09 2017 16:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 16:47 xtorn wrote:On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game. 100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think. Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along I think Life did more damage than he helped. Life was fantastic but the fact that he was fantastic is what made him being a matchfixer that much worse. If he didn't exist someone else would be the second greatest player of all time, but we might not have had our Savior
How ironic that a "Savior" means the exact opposite of what a savior typically does.
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On May 09 2017 16:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 16:47 xtorn wrote:On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game. 100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think. Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along I think Life did more damage than he helped. Life was fantastic but the fact that he was fantastic is what made him being a matchfixer that much worse. If he didn't exist someone else would be the second greatest player of all time, but we might not have had our Savior
Playing what if, I see some more wins for Parting and Taeja had Life not been there in the tournaments he won. Obviously things would be unpredictibly different, but I still don't think it's fair to just say it would've been the same with another player, maybe resultwise, but in play it's like day and night. Parting is a player with enough skill that maybe he could've done something similar and Taeja as well, but who's not to say that Life was the factor to push these players to their limit in trying to overcome Life. Lets say Bomber would've been the GOAT had Life not been there, I really don't think the skill is at the same level at all, or maybe you mean a guy we never heard of would've taken his place, well that could happen, but what are the odds he would've jumped to the same level and also had the luck to do so, it's definitely not guaranteed.
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You missed the point of the article entirely.
Oh yeah, your article pointing out 2 storylines where people adapted to the new meta/Bonjwas-are-not-a-thing was very interesting. I'm just annoyed with the constant "they weren't good back then, wake up sheeple" every other paragraph.
This dogged determination happened to coincide with LotV changes that stressed the primacy of multitasking at the expense of simplifying overall strategy.
... In retrospect one could hardly blame figureheads for ballooning ByuN to the status of living legend ...
There’s a good reason we rarely saw this pre-LotV. No, it had nothing to do with players being “worse”.
You're an angry old man yelling at clouds. People get better at videogames as time goes.
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Austria24422 Posts
On May 30 2017 00:29 Vendethiel wrote:Oh yeah, your article pointing out 2 storylines where people adapted to the new meta/Bonjwas-are-not-a-thing was very interesting. I'm just annoyed with the constant "they weren't good back then, wake up sheeple" every other paragraph. Show nested quote +This dogged determination happened to coincide with LotV changes that stressed the primacy of multitasking at the expense of simplifying overall strategy. Show nested quote +... In retrospect one could hardly blame figureheads for ballooning ByuN to the status of living legend ... Show nested quote +There’s a good reason we rarely saw this pre-LotV. No, it had nothing to do with players being “worse”. You're an angry old man yelling at clouds. People get better at videogames as time goes.
You haven't even figured out that it wasn't me who wrote the article, which is why I doubt your reading comprehension.
And you're entitled to the opinion that everyone gets better over time. There's no proof of that at all, there's a good amount of pros who wouldn't agree with you and I personally think you're dead wrong for a good number of reasons (talent pool has shrunk massively, tons of top end players retired, professional team structure in Korea is dead, foreigners actually figure the game out before Koreans do nowadays), but that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion. Good day!
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France12909 Posts
On May 09 2017 20:45 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 16:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On May 09 2017 16:47 xtorn wrote:On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game. 100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think. Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along I think Life did more damage than he helped. Life was fantastic but the fact that he was fantastic is what made him being a matchfixer that much worse. If he didn't exist someone else would be the second greatest player of all time, but we might not have had our Savior Playing what if, I see some more wins for Parting and Taeja had Life not been there in the tournaments he won. Obviously things would be unpredictibly different, but I still don't think it's fair to just say it would've been the same with another player, maybe resultwise, but in play it's like day and night. Parting is a player with enough skill that maybe he could've done something similar and Taeja as well, but who's not to say that Life was the factor to push these players to their limit in trying to overcome Life. Lets say Bomber would've been the GOAT had Life not been there, I really don't think the skill is at the same level at all, or maybe you mean a guy we never heard of would've taken his place, well that could happen, but what are the odds he would've jumped to the same level and also had the luck to do so, it's definitely not guaranteed.
Why do people act like Life was super dominant all the time or something?
He got shat on pretty regularly like every other top player.
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On May 06 2017 20:41 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 19:24 Olli wrote:On May 06 2017 17:15 DinosaurPoop wrote:On May 05 2017 22:57 Olli wrote:On May 05 2017 22:45 Nakajin wrote:On May 03 2017 11:05 JackONeill wrote:By the time BlizzCon rolled around, every single caster of note banded together to systematically erase all memory of StarCraft 2 prior to that moment. The agreed upon tagline was “highest skill era”. They had an unspoken contract to be as relentlessly optimistic as possible, and that involved praising all aspects of the game at a breathless pace. Since ByuN was the latest Terran champion he had to be the greatest Terran in the game’s history. Maru's micro against Protoss was irrelevant. GuMiho's drop harass was too boring to remember. TaeJa’s reactionary prowess was left unmentioned; beyond early ravager pushes, Terran didn’t even bother to defend anymore. The casters drilled this rhetoric into the minds of the community every chance they got. Whether it was a proper reaction to events was besides the point. It culminated in a Dada-esque scene where Tasteless and Artosis were transformed into gushing cheerleaders over ByuN target-firing slow banes off creep. Listening to their praise alone you’d think it was the epitome of TvZ fights. Also, what we have to notice is that the level of analysis by casters dropped hugely since WOL. I've seen Dark rolling over every single terran during HOTS with banes/roaches/corruptors because everyone was going biomine because marine/tanks sucked against mutas, and i've never heard a single caster mention that. Only that "Dark is the best TvZ in the world !". And with LOTV, it's even worse. I've heard casters say countless time that gateball can't beat bio with medivacs and stim, and act baffled when a protoss player did, praising him in a general way with no explanation whatsoever. More specifically, i've never heard any caster talk about the huge influence of guardian shield, the 1 native armor on the adept the marauder nerf. How bio vs gateball fights usually revolved around guardian shield heavily lowering marauder attacks, or how some terran players manually position the marauders in front against adept heavy compositions to protect the marines. I've seen Maru destroy adept/sentries army with that, but without the casters even mentionning it. It'd be like WOL casters commentating bio/vikings vs gate/colossi fight without explaning mentionning how did the vikings perform against the colossi. I guess it's because casters don't really play the game as much as before? Or that they're less interested in the game? I dunno, and maybe i missed some good analysis during casts, but to conclude i'd say players are praised mainly on their execution and not the other components of their play, and that both those aspects and the execution are often not analysed at all, with casters only chanting the "Byun/Zest/Dark/etc is sooooo gooooood". The state of the game, the players, everything is dumbed down to being "sooo goood". The caster now are way better and play the game more then at any era, we use to have people like Husky, Kaelaris, Apollo or even HOTS Day 9 who barelly played the game. Now outside of Tastless, all the caster are High Master or GM at the game and played a hell of a lot of games. In Austin all the caster were GM level player (outside of maybe Maynard I don't really now his level). Apollo was GM or at least top masters with random, and the best caster SC2 ever had in my book. I mean ToD once casted WCS while still in Premier league, so did HuK iirc. Apollo was a better commentator than them, though. As for the post above me, just wanted to say that Life's dominance in early 2015 had nothing to do with SHs. It was him dismantling every Terran with muta/ling/bane. Then people started meching, and he was never really good against that. Yeah but people started meching because of the SH nerf so Life's slump was at least partly caused by a balance change.
I'd like to disagree with this. If you're talking about Life's loss to ForGG's mech at Dreamhack Winter, that was just a small hiccup because literally no Terran had tried mech before this. Then Life went back into his Zerg cave and became good against mech. And iirc, Life went on to wreck nearly every Terran (including ForGG in an online cup) before Dream came into the scene.
At that point in time Life still had the motivation to perform well. Life finds a way regardless of balance patch if he wants to. The only hard Life counter is Life himself (and Taeja pre-Blizzcon 2014).
Also you say Life was dominant in only one period which is false. He was dominant in 2013, 2014, and 2015 just at the very end and start of each year which was when the $100,000 Blizzcon championship came around. Otherwise yeah, he was garbage because he didn't care but Life WAS the person to beat at these times.
On May 30 2017 05:50 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 20:45 ejozl wrote:On May 09 2017 16:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On May 09 2017 16:47 xtorn wrote:On May 07 2017 06:35 ejozl wrote:
I think Life is very relevant in this discussion. It almost feels like everyone is trying to forcefully forget his skill, achievements and impact(positive) on the game. 100% agreed, had the exact same feeling. I hate how some regard his mistakes as if he shot Kennedy or something. Its just fucking ridiculous. Yes he damaged the sc2 scene during the scandal, yes a lot not just a little, but then again before all that scandal, the community and the scene entirely benefitted from his competing tremendously, a lot more than any damage he caused. On 7pm news tonight, kids make mistakes and water is wet, stay tuned for more. But i am only gold league so no one will give two thin-sliced fucks about what i think. Yes yes i know i was offtopic, rant over, carry on, move along I think Life did more damage than he helped. Life was fantastic but the fact that he was fantastic is what made him being a matchfixer that much worse. If he didn't exist someone else would be the second greatest player of all time, but we might not have had our Savior Playing what if, I see some more wins for Parting and Taeja had Life not been there in the tournaments he won. Obviously things would be unpredictibly different, but I still don't think it's fair to just say it would've been the same with another player, maybe resultwise, but in play it's like day and night. Parting is a player with enough skill that maybe he could've done something similar and Taeja as well, but who's not to say that Life was the factor to push these players to their limit in trying to overcome Life. Lets say Bomber would've been the GOAT had Life not been there, I really don't think the skill is at the same level at all, or maybe you mean a guy we never heard of would've taken his place, well that could happen, but what are the odds he would've jumped to the same level and also had the luck to do so, it's definitely not guaranteed. Why do people act like Life was super dominant all the time or something? He got shat on pretty regularly like every other top player.
Let's be realistic, when Life was at his peak (November to March-ish), he was literally crushing everyone. From time to time there were insurgents like ForGG, Dream, but in the next series he met these players he would most of the time beat them because he would adapt and find a way.
Like post March up to November again every year he would get fucked by every player in existence though because he would stop caring again.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I agree on most of those points, but you can't conflate ForGG's mech with the mech that eventually took out Life in the latter half of 2015. The latter was much slower/split map. At the same time it came during one of Life's demotivational periods. Now whether or not Life was demotivated and therefore lost or was unable to find a way to win against that patch and was thus demotivated is up in the air.
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EPT
