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On January 08 2017 09:22 BronzeKnee wrote:
Yeah, but Oracle shenanigans isn't the reason Protoss is losing so badly in PvT. It would do nothing to even up PvT, which is why you are trolling. And dats the last two posts I see as troll posts.
no, its an honest request for a change. labelling them troll posts lowers the signal to noise ratio of the thread and can derail it as you can see we now have someone reacting to this back-and-forth by claiming a quote i never made.
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On January 09 2017 00:22 icesergio wrote:
I'm not losing because of 2 shot stalker etc etc believe me, ok I believe you, so basically you are implying that I'm shit, fair enough then. But at least give me the benefit of the doubt to think that you're not much of a player either, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce this, but I digress. You try to be a smartass by saying that "Lings eat Thors for breakfast" well of course they do smart guy, lings are supposed to counter thors and thors are supposed to be weak to lings. The problem with colossus is that the colossus was nerfed because it supposedly dealt too much damage to units that were supposed to be eaten by the colossi (i.e. MMM compositions)
The disruptor is way too unreliable and by itself it cannot guarantee an effective AoE damage, which is why, apart from PvP you see Colossi mixed in with disruptors, the former of which have become almost a compromise between a meat shield (along with gateway units) and damage dealer.
Your last sentence represents the absolute oxymore and allows everyone to understand that you have not comprehended anything of what I said. With my post I wanted to communicate the fact that now you are all acting cool and denigrating the protoss players because it seems you forgot back when you whined oh so terribly because Colossi were too good, they were OP, that your MMM couldn't beat them, boo hoo.
personally I haven't whine back in hots, just rekting braindead protosses with pure bio, dropping right on the colossi because guess what I just overmacro'd them, I bet if colossi wasn't nerfed right now you'd would be unhappy anyway.
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On January 09 2017 00:50 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2017 00:22 icesergio wrote:
I'm not losing because of 2 shot stalker etc etc believe me, ok I believe you, so basically you are implying that I'm shit, fair enough then. But at least give me the benefit of the doubt to think that you're not much of a player either, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce this, but I digress. You try to be a smartass by saying that "Lings eat Thors for breakfast" well of course they do smart guy, lings are supposed to counter thors and thors are supposed to be weak to lings. The problem with colossus is that the colossus was nerfed because it supposedly dealt too much damage to units that were supposed to be eaten by the colossi (i.e. MMM compositions)
The disruptor is way too unreliable and by itself it cannot guarantee an effective AoE damage, which is why, apart from PvP you see Colossi mixed in with disruptors, the former of which have become almost a compromise between a meat shield (along with gateway units) and damage dealer.
Your last sentence represents the absolute oxymore and allows everyone to understand that you have not comprehended anything of what I said. With my post I wanted to communicate the fact that now you are all acting cool and denigrating the protoss players because it seems you forgot back when you whined oh so terribly because Colossi were too good, they were OP, that your MMM couldn't beat them, boo hoo.
personally I haven't whine back in hots, just rekting braindead protosses with pure bio, dropping right on the colossi because guess what I just overmacro'd them, I bet if colossi wasn't nerfed right now you'd would be unhappy anyway.
I think what you're saying is that he should come with you if he wants to live.
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It was easy to overmacro protoss as Terran in HOTS straight because of how mules and chrono worked back than. Actually in LOTV it's Terran plahers that whine as fuck about Protoss getting so much economy advantage thanks to pylon overcharge and chrono. Be careful. Shittalk is a weapon with two blades.
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On January 09 2017 04:03 hiroshOne wrote:
It was easy to overmacro protoss as Terran in HOTS straight because of how mules and chrono worked back than. Actually in LOTV it's Terran plahers that whine as fuck about Protoss getting so much economy advantage thanks to pylon overcharge and chrono. Be careful. Shittalk is a weapon with two blades.
pff it's not a problem, I have a liberator who 2 SHOT STALKERS!!! but I think even if it will be nerfed i'll be alright. whoops
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Make chrono boost great again. FFS why blizzard JUST MAKE IT GOOD. The new one sucks
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You all make such a big deal of pylon overcharge. Unless someone goes mad and fills up their main with pylons you will have at most 3-4 pylons shooting at you. Have you ever tried double dropping with some marauders? Focusing the msc with marines while shooting pylons with marauders as pylons are considered armored? I do it, and I rank gold 3 as T.
If, instead, you are attacking HEAD on into a protoss base and expecting to just march over it then it's your problem not mine. Ever tried walking under a siege tank? Not pleasant right?
It's clear to me that we have differing opinions, and that's a good thing, in the end we must all realize that blizzard doesn't even read this and they act based on themselves solely.
"If i still had the old colossus i'd still be unhappy" well, we would see about that wouldn't we?
Protoss has an economic advantage? Really? Where? Try securing a third base as toss while the opponent is still on two. 
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On January 09 2017 05:04 icesergio wrote:You all make such a big deal of pylon overcharge. Unless someone goes mad and fills up their main with pylons you will have at most 3-4 pylons shooting at you. Have you ever tried double dropping with some marauders? Focusing the msc with marines while shooting pylons with marauders as pylons are considered armored? I do it, and I rank gold 3 as T. If, instead, you are attacking HEAD on into a protoss base and expecting to just march over it then it's your problem not mine. Ever tried walking under a siege tank? Not pleasant right? It's clear to me that we have differing opinions, and that's a good thing, in the end we must all realize that blizzard doesn't even read this and they act based on themselves solely. "If i still had the old colossus i'd still be unhappy" well, we would see about that wouldn't we? Protoss has an economic advantage? Really? Where? Try securing a third base as toss while the opponent is still on two.
overcharge isn't supposed to kill entire midgame aggression by itself it's just buy time, yes I hope they doesn't read this, impossible to balance game at each level, so scrubs and whiners are doomed to always have troubles, and it's totally normal, you don't need 3rd if opponent on 2, scout is a good thing.
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I really think these community feedback updates are extremely uninspiring. I would rather have biweekly updates and get more in depth/discuss more things than what we get here.
At the same time i cannot blame everything on blizzard here when everybody pretty much says everything is 100% perfect anyway. I don't know which progamers/personalities are in talk with blizzard about the game and what is being communicated there, but i hope it's more than "sc2 is better than it has ever been, nothign to improve!"
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nerf burrowed fungal & tank damage pls
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Australia177 Posts
On January 09 2017 10:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't know which progamers/personalities are in talk with blizzard about the game and what is being communicated there, but i hope it's more than "sc2 is better than it has ever been, nothign to improve!"
Well for one thing they must not be talking about Zest. Because he basically said during his GSL interview that he can't win PvTs. We are talking about one of the best Protoss in the world. Looking at Hero's games PvT it seemed equally as bad.
Personally I don't think it's any one thing that Terran has that makes the match up insane. Usually your talking about some kind of tank liberators siege outside your third with a window mind dropping into your nat and main. Each location needs perfect micro to not take damage. Mismicro either bases defense and lose 10 probe. Mismicro the front lose your army.
I'm all for micro and counter micro. But when you have 3 simultaneous attacks where its 60/40 against you i.e. it's easier to attack then defend, your going get out unscathed 6.4% of the time.
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On January 09 2017 00:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2017 09:22 BronzeKnee wrote:
Yeah, but Oracle shenanigans isn't the reason Protoss is losing so badly in PvT. It would do nothing to even up PvT, which is why you are trolling. And dats the last two posts I see as troll posts. no, its an honest request for a change. labelling them troll posts lowers the signal to noise ratio of the thread and can derail it as you can see we now have someone reacting to this back-and-forth by claiming a quote i never made.
That change literally makes zero sense. It is like saying that white people in America need money from the government because of slavery. Protoss is losing just a hair less than 60% of their games at a high level in PvT right now. Nerfing the Oracle would make that worse.
PvT was less imbalanced right after the release of WOL!
http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
You sir are now my favorite troll.
On January 08 2017 03:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
remove one of the Oracle spells in order to even up early/mid PvT.
On January 09 2017 00:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
we now have someone reacting to this back-and-forth by claiming a quote i never made.
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Sorry, i can't speak english!@@ google translate. Một nghiên cứu nhỏ về Protoss.
Lotv: Ý tưởng của các bạn là làm tăng tốc độ trận đấu:
Game speed: tăng ~ 30%.
Unit speed: tăng ~ 40%, DPS tăng ~ 40%, và Attack giữ nguyên. Các bạn đúng, tôi thích ý tưởng này vì game cần một chút đổi mới! Cấu trúc và sự logic của game sẽ không bị phá vở. Nhưng có một vài vấn đề, bạn thay đổi không đồng bộ:
Colossus: Speed: tăng 40%, Attack giãm ~20% nhưng lên +3 sẽ giảm ~ 28.5%. DPS tăng ~ 23% nhưng lên +3 chỉ tăng ~ 10% so với HOTS. Đây chỉ là những con số nếu như không làm cấu trúc game thay đổi (vào cuối HOTS gần như là cân bằng) ví dụ như bạn luôn cần 2 shot để giết benaling Và rất nhiều thứ khác rất phức tạp tùy vào nâng cấp armor!
Psionic Storm: Bạn tăng tốc độ all Unit ~40% nhưng tốc độ Psionic Storm chi tăng ~30% ( 2.85s so với 4s) một nerfed ẩn cho High Templar? và bây giờ MMM đang hồi sinh với tốc độ chóng mặt, những newbie cũng có thể tiêu diệt Protoss mạnh nhất. Năm 2016 Terran vẩn chưa nhận ra ưu thế của mình cho tới khi BuyN trở lại với những Build cơ bản.
Trong game có những thứ không thể tùy tiện đụng đến, 1 là HP, 2 là Attack, 3 là Armor. Mà nếu bạn đụng đến, sự cân bằng và logic trong game sẽ bị ảnh hưởng triệt để đặt biệt là thể loại game dàn trận thời gian thực. Mọi Unit đều có sự liên kết chặt chẽ với nhau.
Bạn không nên cân chỉnh lại những thứ mà tốn hàng trăm Patch Change đã gần như đạt sự cân bằng vào cuối Hots mà thứ bạn cần cân chỉnh là 6 new unit Lotv ( Disruptor vs terran hoàn toàn vô dụng, nhưng vs Protoss và Zerg quyết định thắng vs thua, với 150/150 và 182s).
Patch 3.8. Là một sai lầm, bạn không thể tăng Attack cho Siege Tank và tăng thời gian Cooldown để đổi lấy DPS không có sự chênh lệch nhiều lắm???? Đây là điều hết sức ngớ ngẩn, vân DPS sẽ không thay đối nhiều nhưng sự logic của game đã hoàn toàn bị phá hỏng.
Trở lại vấn đề chính của topic: vấn đề không nằm ở Hydralisk mà nằm ở Liberator và Siege Tank bạn nhé ( trước đây là 3 shoot, hiện giờ luôn là 2), Carier cũng là một vất đề nhưng cần thời gian để nghiên cứu thêm. Còn về Protoss, GSL sẽ chứng minh tất cả, không một Protoss chơi cơ bản nào có thể chiến thắng Terran( trừ khi là một Protoss Super strong vsTerran medium).
User was warned for this post
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On January 09 2017 17:20 CC337 wrote:
Sorry, i can't speak english!@@ google translate. Một nghiên cứu nhỏ về Protoss.
Lotv: Ý tưởng của các bạn là làm tăng tốc độ trận đấu:
Game speed: tăng ~ 30%.
Unit speed: tăng ~ 40%, DPS tăng ~ 40%, và Attack giữ nguyên. Các bạn đúng, tôi thích ý tưởng này vì game cần một chút đổi mới! Cấu trúc và sự logic của game sẽ không bị phá vở. Nhưng có một vài vấn đề, bạn thay đổi không đồng bộ:
Colossus: Speed: tăng 40%, Attack giãm ~20% nhưng lên +3 sẽ giảm ~ 28.5%. DPS tăng ~ 23% nhưng lên +3 chỉ tăng ~ 10% so với HOTS. Đây chỉ là những con số nếu như không làm cấu trúc game thay đổi (vào cuối HOTS gần như là cân bằng) ví dụ như bạn luôn cần 2 shot để giết benaling Và rất nhiều thứ khác rất phức tạp tùy vào nâng cấp armor!
Psionic Storm: Bạn tăng tốc độ all Unit ~40% nhưng tốc độ Psionic Storm chi tăng ~30% ( 2.85s so với 4s) một nerfed ẩn cho High Templar? và bây giờ MMM đang hồi sinh với tốc độ chóng mặt, những newbie cũng có thể tiêu diệt Protoss mạnh nhất. Năm 2016 Terran vẩn chưa nhận ra ưu thế của mình cho tới khi BuyN trở lại với những Build cơ bản.
Trong game có những thứ không thể tùy tiện đụng đến, 1 là HP, 2 là Attack, 3 là Armor. Mà nếu bạn đụng đến, sự cân bằng và logic trong game sẽ bị ảnh hưởng triệt để đặt biệt là thể loại game dàn trận thời gian thực. Mọi Unit đều có sự liên kết chặt chẽ với nhau.
Bạn không nên cân chỉnh lại những thứ mà tốn hàng trăm Patch Change đã gần như đạt sự cân bằng vào cuối Hots mà thứ bạn cần cân chỉnh là 6 new unit Lotv ( Disruptor vs terran hoàn toàn vô dụng, nhưng vs Protoss và Zerg quyết định thắng vs thua, với 150/150 và 182s).
Patch 3.8. Là một sai lầm, bạn không thể tăng Attack cho Siege Tank và tăng thời gian Cooldown để đổi lấy DPS không có sự chênh lệch nhiều lắm???? Đây là điều hết sức ngớ ngẩn, vân DPS sẽ không thay đối nhiều nhưng sự logic của game đã hoàn toàn bị phá hỏng.
Trở lại vấn đề chính của topic: vấn đề không nằm ở Hydralisk mà nằm ở Liberator và Siege Tank bạn nhé ( trước đây là 3 shoot, hiện giờ luôn là 2), Carier cũng là một vất đề nhưng cần thời gian để nghiên cứu thêm. Còn về Protoss, GSL sẽ chứng minh tất cả, không một Protoss chơi cơ bản nào có thể chiến thắng Terran( trừ khi là một Protoss Super strong vsTerran medium).
User was warned for this post
Translated:
A little research on the Protoss.
Lotv: Your idea is to speed up the game:
Game speed: ~ 30% increase.
Unit speed: increased ~ 40%, ~ 40% DPS increase, and Attack unchanged. The correct you, I like this idea because the game needs a little innovation! The structure and the logic of the game will not be disrupted. But there are some problems, you change the asynchronous:
Colossus: Speed increased by 40%, ~ 20% but Attack trending up ~ 28.5% +3 will decrease. DPS increase of ~ 23%, but only up to +3 ~ 10% increase compared to HOTS. These are just numbers without making structural changes game (at the end of almost balance HOTS) eg you always need 2 shot to kill benaling And many other things very complex, depending on the upgrade armor!
Psionic Storm: You speed up ~ 40% Unit all but speed Psionic Storm spending increased ~ 30% (2.85s than 4s) a High Templar hidden nerfed? MMM and now is reborn with breakneck speed, the newbie can also destroy the strongest Protoss. 2016 Terran yet to realize his advantage until BuyN back to the basic Build.
In the game there are things that can not arbitrarily touch, 1 HP, Attack 2, 3 is Armor. But if you touch, balance and logic in the game will be affected radically game genre especially arrayed real time. Every unit has a close association with each other.
You should not rebalance things that cost hundreds Patch Change has almost reached the end Hots balance that you need 6 new calibration unit Lotv (Disruptor useless vs Terrans, Protoss and Zerg vs decided yet the winner vs loser, with 150/150 and 182s).
Patch 3.8. Was a mistake, you can not increase the Siege Tank Attack and increased time in exchange for DPS Cooldown no much difference ???? This is absurd, so DPS will not change much, but the logic of the game was completely ruined.
Back to the main issue of the topic: the problem does not lie in Hydralisks which is located in Siege Tank Liberator and you too (formerly 3 shoot, now is always 2), is also a hard problem Carier but needed time to study more. As for the Protoss, GSL will prove to all, not a fundamental Protoss players can win Terran (unless it is a Super strong Protoss vsTerran medium).
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David still without a clue.
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On January 09 2017 10:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I really think these community feedback updates are extremely uninspiring. I would rather have biweekly updates and get more in depth/discuss more things than what we get here.
At the same time i cannot blame everything on blizzard here when everybody pretty much says everything is 100% perfect anyway. I don't know which progamers/personalities are in talk with blizzard about the game and what is being communicated there, but i hope it's more than "sc2 is better than it has ever been, nothign to improve!"
My man, now this thread is finally back on track 
Also, on an interesting side note: Didn't DK tell us that their overall goal was to patch/balance the game as little as possible? Now it suddenly feels like we're getting updates and changes as often as in Heroes of the Storm lol
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On January 09 2017 20:24 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2017 10:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I really think these community feedback updates are extremely uninspiring. I would rather have biweekly updates and get more in depth/discuss more things than what we get here.
At the same time i cannot blame everything on blizzard here when everybody pretty much says everything is 100% perfect anyway. I don't know which progamers/personalities are in talk with blizzard about the game and what is being communicated there, but i hope it's more than "sc2 is better than it has ever been, nothign to improve!" My man, now this thread is finally back on track Also, on an interesting side note: Didn't DK tell us that their overall goal was to patch/balance the game as little as possible? Now it suddenly feels like we're getting updates and changes as often as in Heroes of the Storm lol
I am sorry but that's how i feel about these updates.
It's nice to hear from blizzard but at the same time it's frustrating because in the end they don't talk about the topics detailed enough imo. You could talk about a lot of stuff every single week and quite frankly there should be enough time to do so, but if it's not possible then do these updates biweekly or once a month instead of doing the bare minimum here.
I mean this:
Hydralisks
It’s looking like it would be good to do a small buff to Hydralisks, and a health buff seems like the first step we should try. Let’s start discussing a +10 health to hydralisks, and go from there. Let’s discuss if we should do a base Hydra health buff or an upgrade that buffs the health.
is all they have to say about the situation? I don't get it...
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Really not a word on Carriers ? I usually just sit back and giggle at the reaction those balance updates invoke, because I always felt like no matter what Blizz does there will anyways be plenty of raging - but honestly witht he carrier I find myself
making one of these rage posts now.
What is wrong with them ? The unit is nothing short of a joke and they do not even mention it ?!
Like basically the game ends once protoss secures a 3rd base and gets his double SG Carrier production up... Is that the intended meta (for what always used to be my favorite MU, both as a player and as a specatotor) ?
Can we PLEASE do something about that ? I find it hard to believe that the Hydra buff will change much here.
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On January 09 2017 16:57 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2017 00:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
we now have someone reacting to this back-and-forth by claiming a quote i never made.
yep, some guy starting talking about 4-gating. which i did not complain about. and if its T with the advantage please nerf a Terran flying unit.
On January 09 2017 16:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
It is like saying that white people in America need money from the government because of slavery.
inflammatory political yap as an analogy? huh.
i'm sticking to the topic. have fun with these analogies though.
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keep today's map, buff stalkers, don't buff zerg
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EPT
