• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:28
CET 12:28
KST 20:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Brando London Jacket | Discussion on Style, Fit & Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1419 users

Community Feedback Update - Jan 6 + Jan 10 Update - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
308 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
January 18 2017 08:56 GMT
#301
Well maybe it is overkill to nerf both Swarm Hosts and Vipers.

I think it would be a good start to just increase the cost of Swarm Hosts and see if this leads to mech being more common on pro level.
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 10:50:51
January 18 2017 10:36 GMT
#302
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


2 weeks? release was november 10th 2015 and the adept change was on 29th january 2016...
so its been more like 3 months not 2 weeks...

i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason, they didnt like the new units especially the disruptor, wich made the army harder to controll... also they didnt know how to counter the liberator at that time, wich made the game very frustrating for them.





Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
January 18 2017 10:39 GMT
#303
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


2 weeks? release was november 10th 2015 and the adept change was on 29th january 2016...
so its been more like 3 months not 2 weeks...

i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


Including beta adepts were in that state for almost half a year.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
January 18 2017 10:46 GMT
#304
Was there any reason given for why there was no community update last week?
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
January 18 2017 11:12 GMT
#305
On January 18 2017 19:46 JackONeill wrote:
Was there any reason given for why there was no community update last week?


did they announce theyll do an update every week?
Aiobhill
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany283 Posts
January 18 2017 11:33 GMT
#306
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason...







Google 'fact'. Google 'anecdote'. Edit your shit.
Axslav - apm70maphacks - tak3r
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
January 19 2017 02:43 GMT
#307
On January 18 2017 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
Well maybe it is overkill to nerf both Swarm Hosts and Vipers.

I think it would be a good start to just increase the cost of Swarm Hosts and see if this leads to mech being more common on pro level.


Sure we can nerf swarm hosts if we can nerf tank damage, liberator major nerf, and widow mine cost raise
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
January 19 2017 02:44 GMT
#308
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason, they didnt like the new units especially the disruptor, wich made the army harder to controll... also they didnt know how to counter the liberator at that time, wich made the game very frustrating for them.



This is why you Terrans need to start acknowledging that your race is currently really problematic in both ZvT and TvP, for the sake of keeping this game alive

Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
January 19 2017 06:34 GMT
#309
On January 18 2017 15:00 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 14:41 Liquid`Snute wrote:
The game i played vs gumi on overgrowth had a lot of bad decisions on my end, not my proudest zvmech

I think ZvT balance (not design) is in a good spot and that swarm host strength is not that high of a priority in terms of balance (not design).

Some players do mech in KR gm. It's still viable in some scenarios assuming zerg goes a certain route, and there are some moves you can make vs hosts: trying to force zerg away from making swarm host, pushing SH tech further back in time (say, a banshee into liberator opening) - the first minutes of the game are very important. When you delay the onset of the hosts, they lose their snowball effect. From there you can do a lot of cool fake pressure moves, too. But if you do something like 2base cloakshee expand and run into 2base muta into 3base swarm host, you will probably lose. Mech usually is not very favorable unless Zerg makes roach/hydra/viper/etc.

I know there aren't that many swarm host games for reference. But I do have a small library of them and when I do play well, I find hosts to just destroy T if I get them out early enough. I've also played some SH games in previous series vs Gumiho and those games were wins in my favor. I'm a little bit surprised to not see hosts used more on the KR streams I've watched - there's actually a lot of roach hydra viper into broodlord going on still, and it often loses to bc/raven and stuff.

I would love to contribute with something useful but honestly the mech samples on the highest levels of play are so small I don't really know what to think besides this.

Thanks Snute for a well detailed experience with swarm hosts.

A question, when you say delay the hosts, do you mean things like drone harass (esp. the ones in gas), or forcing you to use larvae on combat units instead of drones? What are some of the effective ways your hosts are delayed? And what numbers do you need to start that 'snowball' effect you mentioned?

On January 18 2017 14:50 hiroshOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 14:41 Liquid`Snute wrote:
The game i played vs gumi on overgrowth had a lot of bad decisions on my end, not my proudest zvmech

I think ZvT balance (not design) is in a good spot and that swarm host strength is not that high of a priority in terms of balance (not design).

Some players do mech in KR gm. It's still viable in some scenarios assuming zerg goes a certain route, and there are some moves you can make vs hosts: trying to force zerg away from making swarm host, pushing SH tech further back in time (say, a banshee into liberator opening) - the first minutes of the game are very important. When you delay the onset of the hosts, they lose their snowball effect. From there you can do a lot of cool fake pressure moves, too. But if you do something like 2base cloakshee expand and run into 2base muta into 3base swarm host, you will probably lose. Mech usually is not very favorable unless Zerg makes roach/hydra/viper/etc.

I know there aren't that many swarm host games for reference. But I do have a small library of them and when I do play well, I find hosts to just destroy T if I get them out early enough. I've also played some SH games in previous series vs Gumiho and those games were wins in my favor. I'm a little bit surprised to not see hosts used more on the KR streams I've watched - there's actually a lot of roach hydra viper into broodlord going on still, and it often loses to bc/raven and stuff.

I would love to contribute with something useful but honestly the mech samples on the highest levels of play are so small I don't really know what to think besides this.


Thank You Snute for jumping in. But concidering all things you said. Do u think that Swarmhosts along with Vipers should be nerfed because they are making mech unviable? Honestly i also think that all the problems with balancing mech are sourced in design, but nerfing those two units would break the game for Zerg and we could have HOTS mech after SH nerf again.

what I meant by delaying the hosts is that, say, if you open up with a cloak banshee build, it's very hard for the swarm host player to move out. you'll have to invest into a spire, nydus, queendrops, etc. before it's possible to move out with the hosts. this pushes the hosts back in time. I think 15-20 hosts is where things start getting really out of hand for terran, but it also depends on what stage of the game terran is in. a 200/200 terran will be able to deal with a lot of hosts pretty well, but the sooner they hit the more damage they can cause. Whirlwind Cross positions with a banshee hellion opening is a good example of shutting down someone who forgets their spire, for example. Great setup for mech.

I really don't know what to nerf if you'd nerf zerg. Ground zerg is garbage vs tanks save for the hosts (for a while) - hosts fall off around 200/200, and raven/bc/ghost destroys sky zerg very well (?). It's just about the timing windows, maybe? I wouldn't mind a small price increase for the hosts to make the host count increase more slowly.. but if you nerf the cost too much and it becomes unusable you might end up with an OP situation if T super-late game proves to be unbeatable. Thors for example are really really good vs brood lords, and yamato is crazy good.

The blinding cloud nerf was already a very big nerf to zerg ground vs mech, viper doesn't feel too strong vs that. I wouldn't nerf the viper that much. Pbomb and abduct are the best spells right now. But idk if sky zerg vs sky terran is what people are complaining about. Most of what I've heard from mech terrans is actually about the early hosts, not sky zerg/pbomb lategame. So who knows <_> personally i don't think sky zerg is even that strong, playing with hosts feels way better.
Team Liquid
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 99
Creator 36
SC2Nice 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 54555
Sea 12338
Horang2 1218
firebathero 822
actioN 311
Mini 254
EffOrt 220
PianO 156
Light 150
ZerO 145
[ Show more ]
JulyZerg 131
Rush 128
Sharp 108
Snow 102
Killer 86
ggaemo 65
hero 62
Mind 49
Barracks 47
ToSsGirL 34
NaDa 27
Sea.KH 21
soO 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 19
sorry 18
Noble 14
scan(afreeca) 13
Movie 11
Terrorterran 10
Icarus 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe203
NeuroSwarm61
febbydoto24
League of Legends
JimRising 388
C9.Mang0363
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2403
shoxiejesuss990
byalli536
x6flipin493
Other Games
summit1g7960
ceh9488
Happy370
Fuzer 340
Mew2King87
Trikslyr25
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick610
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 35
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos4081
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1d
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Spirit vs MaNa
SHIN vs Percival
Creator vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
1d 21h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.