• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:26
CEST 23:26
KST 06:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)7Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over2New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!38Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles3
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 Which box art did your first copy of StarCraft 1 have? BW General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5272 users

Community Feedback Update - Jan 6 + Jan 10 Update - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
308 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
January 18 2017 08:56 GMT
#301
Well maybe it is overkill to nerf both Swarm Hosts and Vipers.

I think it would be a good start to just increase the cost of Swarm Hosts and see if this leads to mech being more common on pro level.
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 10:50:51
January 18 2017 10:36 GMT
#302
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


2 weeks? release was november 10th 2015 and the adept change was on 29th january 2016...
so its been more like 3 months not 2 weeks...

i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason, they didnt like the new units especially the disruptor, wich made the army harder to controll... also they didnt know how to counter the liberator at that time, wich made the game very frustrating for them.





Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55593 Posts
January 18 2017 10:39 GMT
#303
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


2 weeks? release was november 10th 2015 and the adept change was on 29th january 2016...
so its been more like 3 months not 2 weeks...

i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


Including beta adepts were in that state for almost half a year.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
January 18 2017 10:46 GMT
#304
Was there any reason given for why there was no community update last week?
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
January 18 2017 11:12 GMT
#305
On January 18 2017 19:46 JackONeill wrote:
Was there any reason given for why there was no community update last week?


did they announce theyll do an update every week?
Aiobhill
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany283 Posts
January 18 2017 11:33 GMT
#306
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


i hate it when people try to sell their oppinions as facts...


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason...







Google 'fact'. Google 'anecdote'. Edit your shit.
Axslav - apm70maphacks - tak3r
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
January 19 2017 02:43 GMT
#307
On January 18 2017 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
Well maybe it is overkill to nerf both Swarm Hosts and Vipers.

I think it would be a good start to just increase the cost of Swarm Hosts and see if this leads to mech being more common on pro level.


Sure we can nerf swarm hosts if we can nerf tank damage, liberator major nerf, and widow mine cost raise
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
January 19 2017 02:44 GMT
#308
On January 18 2017 19:36 KOtical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 09:59 Solar424 wrote:
Is there a reason Blizzard loves Terran so much? PvT winrate is the worst it's been in years and they say "we're looking into it" as they always do, but when Adepts were plaguing the matchup they got nerfed within a 2 weeks.


also i wanna state something on the oppinion that protoss is the least played race as for now, ya thats true and i know why!
its because 90% of protoss players left the game with the start of lotv, because they didnt had any deathball army in lotv.
i know this is a fact because my protoss friends all left the game because of that reason, they didnt like the new units especially the disruptor, wich made the army harder to controll... also they didnt know how to counter the liberator at that time, wich made the game very frustrating for them.



This is why you Terrans need to start acknowledging that your race is currently really problematic in both ZvT and TvP, for the sake of keeping this game alive

Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
January 19 2017 06:34 GMT
#309
On January 18 2017 15:00 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 14:41 Liquid`Snute wrote:
The game i played vs gumi on overgrowth had a lot of bad decisions on my end, not my proudest zvmech

I think ZvT balance (not design) is in a good spot and that swarm host strength is not that high of a priority in terms of balance (not design).

Some players do mech in KR gm. It's still viable in some scenarios assuming zerg goes a certain route, and there are some moves you can make vs hosts: trying to force zerg away from making swarm host, pushing SH tech further back in time (say, a banshee into liberator opening) - the first minutes of the game are very important. When you delay the onset of the hosts, they lose their snowball effect. From there you can do a lot of cool fake pressure moves, too. But if you do something like 2base cloakshee expand and run into 2base muta into 3base swarm host, you will probably lose. Mech usually is not very favorable unless Zerg makes roach/hydra/viper/etc.

I know there aren't that many swarm host games for reference. But I do have a small library of them and when I do play well, I find hosts to just destroy T if I get them out early enough. I've also played some SH games in previous series vs Gumiho and those games were wins in my favor. I'm a little bit surprised to not see hosts used more on the KR streams I've watched - there's actually a lot of roach hydra viper into broodlord going on still, and it often loses to bc/raven and stuff.

I would love to contribute with something useful but honestly the mech samples on the highest levels of play are so small I don't really know what to think besides this.

Thanks Snute for a well detailed experience with swarm hosts.

A question, when you say delay the hosts, do you mean things like drone harass (esp. the ones in gas), or forcing you to use larvae on combat units instead of drones? What are some of the effective ways your hosts are delayed? And what numbers do you need to start that 'snowball' effect you mentioned?

On January 18 2017 14:50 hiroshOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 14:41 Liquid`Snute wrote:
The game i played vs gumi on overgrowth had a lot of bad decisions on my end, not my proudest zvmech

I think ZvT balance (not design) is in a good spot and that swarm host strength is not that high of a priority in terms of balance (not design).

Some players do mech in KR gm. It's still viable in some scenarios assuming zerg goes a certain route, and there are some moves you can make vs hosts: trying to force zerg away from making swarm host, pushing SH tech further back in time (say, a banshee into liberator opening) - the first minutes of the game are very important. When you delay the onset of the hosts, they lose their snowball effect. From there you can do a lot of cool fake pressure moves, too. But if you do something like 2base cloakshee expand and run into 2base muta into 3base swarm host, you will probably lose. Mech usually is not very favorable unless Zerg makes roach/hydra/viper/etc.

I know there aren't that many swarm host games for reference. But I do have a small library of them and when I do play well, I find hosts to just destroy T if I get them out early enough. I've also played some SH games in previous series vs Gumiho and those games were wins in my favor. I'm a little bit surprised to not see hosts used more on the KR streams I've watched - there's actually a lot of roach hydra viper into broodlord going on still, and it often loses to bc/raven and stuff.

I would love to contribute with something useful but honestly the mech samples on the highest levels of play are so small I don't really know what to think besides this.


Thank You Snute for jumping in. But concidering all things you said. Do u think that Swarmhosts along with Vipers should be nerfed because they are making mech unviable? Honestly i also think that all the problems with balancing mech are sourced in design, but nerfing those two units would break the game for Zerg and we could have HOTS mech after SH nerf again.

what I meant by delaying the hosts is that, say, if you open up with a cloak banshee build, it's very hard for the swarm host player to move out. you'll have to invest into a spire, nydus, queendrops, etc. before it's possible to move out with the hosts. this pushes the hosts back in time. I think 15-20 hosts is where things start getting really out of hand for terran, but it also depends on what stage of the game terran is in. a 200/200 terran will be able to deal with a lot of hosts pretty well, but the sooner they hit the more damage they can cause. Whirlwind Cross positions with a banshee hellion opening is a good example of shutting down someone who forgets their spire, for example. Great setup for mech.

I really don't know what to nerf if you'd nerf zerg. Ground zerg is garbage vs tanks save for the hosts (for a while) - hosts fall off around 200/200, and raven/bc/ghost destroys sky zerg very well (?). It's just about the timing windows, maybe? I wouldn't mind a small price increase for the hosts to make the host count increase more slowly.. but if you nerf the cost too much and it becomes unusable you might end up with an OP situation if T super-late game proves to be unbeatable. Thors for example are really really good vs brood lords, and yamato is crazy good.

The blinding cloud nerf was already a very big nerf to zerg ground vs mech, viper doesn't feel too strong vs that. I wouldn't nerf the viper that much. Pbomb and abduct are the best spells right now. But idk if sky zerg vs sky terran is what people are complaining about. Most of what I've heard from mech terrans is actually about the early hosts, not sky zerg/pbomb lategame. So who knows <_> personally i don't think sky zerg is even that strong, playing with hosts feels way better.
Team Liquid
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 573
BRAT_OK 113
JuggernautJason60
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13225
Shuttle 834
Horang2 153
TT1 9
Dota 2
Pyrionflax210
Counter-Strike
minikerr46
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi2263
Grubby1651
ArmadaUGS189
XaKoH 177
C9.Mang0175
Trikslyr49
Mew2King28
ViBE24
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV62
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22120
League of Legends
• TFBlade952
Other Games
• imaqtpie1368
• Shiphtur254
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
2h 34m
Kung Fu Cup
13h 34m
RotterdaM Event
18h 49m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
The PondCast
1d 12h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Proleague 2026-09-01
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.