Better, the translation is now up! However...I cannot take credit for this work. Everyone thank mk..)) when they have a chance, because when I was asking for translation help, he went ahead and spent his time translating this, which I will be using to explain the Sc2 situation. In his humbleness, however, he said that he wouldn't post this, but leave me to it. Thanks for your awesomeness, mk..))!
블리자드에서 스타크래프트를 바탕으로 시나리오에 포함돼 있는 캐리건 종족을 추가해 총 4종족으로 스타크래프트2를 출시한다는 것. 종족별로 새로운 유닛도 두어개쯤 추가되고, 유닛 제한도 없는 등의 세부 정보와 올해 말에 베타테스트 버전이 나온다는 정확한 시기까지 소문으로 돌고 있다.
스타크래프트를 유통했던 한빛소프트 측 관계자도 스타2 출시설을 접했다. 이 관계자는 "스타크래프트2가 출시된다는 소식을 들었다. 새로운 종족과 새롭게 추가되는 유닛이 있는 것으로 안다"고 말했다.
e스포츠 전문 방송국의 한 관계자도 "올해 연말에 스타크래프트2 베타테스트 버전이 나온다고 알고 있다. 예전에도 이런 소문은 많았지만 이번에는 확실한 곳에서 들었다"고 말했다.
e스포츠 업계 관계자들은 소문의 진위 여부에 촉각을 곤두세우고 있다. 스타크래프트2가 나온다는 소문이 사실이라면 선수와 감독 등 게임단과 e스포츠 전문 방송국도 이에 대한 대책을 세워야 하기 때문이다.
또한 블리자드측에서 스타크래프트2를 활성화 시키기 위해 스타크래프트 죽이기에 돌입할 수도 있다는 분석도 이어지고 있다.
한 관계자는 "만약 블리자드측에서 스타크래프트2 출시로 기존의 e스포츠 업계를 죽이려고 한다면 공동 대응 체계를 마련해야 한다"며 "전향할지 안할지는 스타크래프트2가 출시된 뒤 결정해도 늦지 않을 것"이고 말했다.
Blizzard will be releasing starcraft2, continuing story and background from the original and adding "kerrigan" race making total of 4. Each race will get around 2 new additional units, removable of unit limit (200/200), along with these info there is also news of beta version coming out end of the year.
There is a rumor of release of Starcraft2 among esport communities/businese groups.
Source from hanbitsoft who had a relationship with the original starcraft has also commented that he heard such news. Source said " I heard of new starcraft2, as far as I know there will be a new race and couple additional units for each race".
Source from esport broadcasting company said " there will be a beta version of SC2 coming out end of the year." He also comments that there were a lot of false rumors in the past but this time he says source is reliable.
People from esports companies are anxious? to see if these rumors hold any truth. If it is true that sc2 will come out, players/coaches/managers/team/broadcasting companies/ all need to plan a solution?
There are also opinions that blizzard will "kill" starcraft for the better success of SC2.
One source said " if blizzard attempts we need to be ready and plan a counter plan." It wont be too late to decide whether to move on to SC2 after its release."
That's some interesting stuff and answers a few of the question I've had, as well as many others I'm sure. I still maintain the hope that it remains a fast paced game, 3d is okay as long as the game remains high speed. It'd be nice if all SCBW hotkeys were retained in sc2 to allow for an ease of transition to the new game.
I still have my doubts that it will be any better than the starcraft we have now.
If blizzard somehow..SOMEHOW.. balances a 4th race into the game, adds features, graphics, but completely preserves the current game otherwise.... then this can work.
I just hope the game doesn't slow down like testie is warning. All new RTS these days are heavy graphics and slooooowwwwwwwwww.
On April 09 2007 15:43 CaucasianAsian wrote: Remove 200/200 limit?! eww T_T
I hope that this is an optional feature, or that they decide to scrap this idea before the final version. Though it would be fun to try filling an entire map with zerglings.
anyone know what the kerrigan race pertains to? Like at the end of the campaign, did something weird happen? Ive never finished campaign but right now I am actually trying to.
On April 09 2007 15:49 kNyTTyM wrote: anyone know what the kerrigan race pertains to? Like at the end of the campaign, did something weird happen? Ive never finished campaign but right now I am actually trying to.
I believe this is just the new name of the race. In the campaign, Duran says in the secret level, that Kerrigan contributed to the experiment, referring to the hybrids.
this could most definitely fuck up progaming as it is, or it could very well spawn a whole nother gaming scene. I just REALLY hope blizzard knows how much is riding on this shit. New Sc could just turn out to be shit and they go back to BW like always ^^. Kind of reminds me of the XFL (take off of the NFL) in USA a few years back, new rules and new players, shit went nowhere.
The problem is fucking automatization; like in Warcraft 3 : the notion of 'macro' almost completely dissapears, you produce units from like maximum 3-4 buildings (wtf, cake for any SC pro), expo's aren't really that necessary, until lategame; I would also hate to see constant fights between groups of 4-10 units, and every one of those units being different; massing is not all, but it sure as hell has its beauty; gameplay of current SC is so awesome because of the fast paced action AND the ideal combination between small organized taskforces and masses of units. I am almost sure there will be no heros, they would just SUCK ASS.
Small shortcuts (eg- an SCV rallied on a mineral patch will start auto-mining) will just take away some of the depth of the game; SC is what it is due to the fact that no other game provides such a deep interaction; it just offers a multi-leveled competition, and taking away small stuff (like mining maintenance, etc etc) will just destroy the depth (mechanical and/or tactic) of the game.
So Blizz keep it simple, keep it hard, and keep it balanced; in YOU we trust;)
On April 09 2007 17:05 micronesia wrote: New Protoss Units: Small weak ground units with both direct and indirect attacks. Ground spell caster that can cast defensive spells on units.
New Zerg Units: Ground based sieging unit with a slow rate of fire and high damage. Ariel spell caster
New Terran Units: Direct combat human units. Offensive spellcaster
On April 09 2007 15:43 CaucasianAsian wrote: Remove 200/200 limit?! eww T_T
I could be wrong but the way I understood the article was that only the two new units would not apply to the 200 supply limit. So all the "old" units such as zeals and goons etc. would still have the 200 supply but the 2 new special units would not apply towards the food count.
On April 09 2007 17:05 micronesia wrote: New Protoss Units: Small weak ground units with both direct and indirect attacks. Ground spell caster that can cast defensive spells on units.
New Zerg Units: Ground based sieging unit with a slow rate of fire and high damage. Ariel spell caster
New Terran Units: Direct combat human units. Offensive spellcaster
that would make all the races look the same.
I agree with oneofthem, I think it makes it interesting to have weak points in each of the races yet still retain balance between them. It makes it so each of the races has to come up with varied solutions to the same problems.
On April 09 2007 17:05 micronesia wrote: New Protoss Units: Small weak ground units with both direct and indirect attacks. Ground spell caster that can cast defensive spells on units.
New Zerg Units: Ground based sieging unit with a slow rate of fire and high damage. Ariel spell caster
New Terran Units: Direct combat human units. Offensive spellcaster
On April 09 2007 15:49 kNyTTyM wrote: anyone know what the kerrigan race pertains to? Like at the end of the campaign, did something weird happen? Ive never finished campaign but right now I am actually trying to.
On April 09 2007 15:43 CaucasianAsian wrote: Remove 200/200 limit?! eww T_T
I could be wrong but the way I understood the article was that only the two new units would not apply to the 200 supply limit. So all the "old" units such as zeals and goons etc. would still have the 200 supply but the 2 new special units would not apply towards the food count.
That wouldn't make any sense (unless they would be really crappy units, and it still wouldn't make sense), I think he was just listing new things that would likely feature in the new game and separating them with commas.
No fucking way. It's already on the slate??! This is EPIC!!
Edit: I think it's too soon. They should have waited another year before starting to work on it. I hope 3d graphics and average computer performance has developed enough. But as far as constructive criticism, I definitely agree with the other posters. Do NOT slow down the game Blizzard. That was easily the biggest problem with War3. I think they should approach this with a Jenga tower mindset. They shouldn't change too much, but instead add and tweak... little by little.
On April 09 2007 15:49 kNyTTyM wrote: anyone know what the kerrigan race pertains to? Like at the end of the campaign, did something weird happen? Ive never finished campaign but right now I am actually trying to.
hybrid race
I always wondered if the hybrids would be imba in anyway i mean c'mon mutareavers and highqueens would just kill everything.
On a serious note though, wouldn't it be cool to make the hybrids kinda like the Combine from HL2? Insteade of building certain units they would have to capture existing units from other races to be able to make their own super tech units and what not. Or when they capture units they can add certain abilities or researches to themselves OR that can be their way of getting upgrades or researches or units. What do you guys think of this idea?
edit: okay nevermind the idea of them having required to capture and assimilate units because mirror match for hybrids would be wierd. But having the side ability to capture and make special clones would be cool right?
I assure you, it's not april fools. Besides, this is a BETA test, plus politics is involved. Under these circumstances, there is no reason not to believe that a beta star2 will come out by the end of 2007.
On April 09 2007 17:34 crazie-penguin wrote: I always wondered if the hybrids would be imba in anyway i mean c'mon mutareavers and highqueens would just kill everything.
rofl just imagine a reaver scarab bouncing 3 times hmm, maybe the hybrids could expand on the zerg's (limited) ability to infest stuff? like they could infest all buildings or something
...
still rumours are just rumours, and i'll pretend i never read this until official statement from blizz that way, no disappointment, and only potential joy =p
On April 09 2007 15:49 kNyTTyM wrote: anyone know what the kerrigan race pertains to? Like at the end of the campaign, did something weird happen? Ive never finished campaign but right now I am actually trying to.
hybrid race (xel'naga)
doesnt really make sense from a storyline POV though. Kerrigan shouldnt be in control of the hybrids unless she deposes not only duran, and the crazy hybrid dark templar dude, but whichever large power guides them as well. I honestly see kerrigan dying in this one.
Raynor and zeratul are off in space somewhere, Aldaras wants to recapture Aiur - which has zerg broods infesting it. All the protoss - other than some renegade dt - are on the homeworld of shakuras. No interaction between protoss and terran. Without Zeratul and raynor as ambassadors, and with Mengsk as the terran head, it is unlikely for any alliance between protoss and terran to meaningfully deveop. Note that a survival alliance - most likely to survive against the hybrids - is still highly probable.
I cant say when raynor and zeratul will rejoin the main story, but I would be very surprised if they didnt reappear. It could either be an early alliance with the protoss, with no terran alliance at all; or a later alliance that brings together the protoss and terran. Mengsk is pretty much guaranteed dead by the end of this.
As for kerrigan, she will IMO almost certainly head the zerg throughout the campaign. I expect her power might dwindle a bit in the beginning - In either case she will be smashed by the hybrids, but remain the strongest of the three sc races.
Dont be surprised if there is a last minute alliance between zerg, terran and protoss with an eventual defeat of the xel'naga and a falling-out soon after. My prediction is that Kerrigan will sacrifice herself in the victory - ironically echoing Fenix' death.
As all the information gathered by UED expeditionary never made it to earth, I do not expect the UED to play a large role, or any role at all. With the death of DuGalle, there is no longer a vengance play. Stukov will likely play hybrid lieutenant. I believe he was last onboard a protoss vessel - what machinations he will use to escape I cant entirely guess, but I dont see him being converted back.
The hybrids will definitely be enemies of all three races. Very likely that all three races will unite against it. Hybrids will be the strongest race initially by far as well IMO. Pretty much untouchable in the first half.
Also note that Fenix' voice actor was Bill Roper. Fenix died in SC, so this isnt a problem, but there will be no resurrection (pretty sure). Also not that Paul Eiding, the voice of Roy Campbell, was also the voice for Aldaris.
sc2 will ruin starcraft mainly because of the graphics change (from simplistic fully controllable 2d to fully 3d WC3 BULLSHIT) and because new races throws the balance way off, and its hard to get the balance to how it was originally.
from the sounds of the original article, if the highlights are one new race and a few new units, i think that would be great news.
like if they were releasing wc3 again they'd be talking about bigger changes like "new heroes! creeps! few powerful units!" but the absence of talk of such travesties is hopefully a sign that it will be basically the same game, revamped and expanded. i would be so hyped for a revamp that feels almost the same, but has an extra race, new units, improved interface, ladder, matchmaking, progaming features like refereeing, replay control maybe, etc. maybe some extra abilities/upgrades like something for lategame zealots. balance won't be perfect to begin with, but i'm sure will come with time.
i respect blizzard enough as a company that i think they'd be smart enough to make the sequel true to Starcraft, especially given the korean pro scene and the fact that they had a chance to experiment more radically with RTS's in wc3.
but a beta before the end of the year would still be pretty far away in my mind, so i'm not holding my breath.
edit: i think they'll make it 3D, but they better damn well stay true to the essence of the original engine, speed, tight control, roughly the same numbers of units, etc...
On April 09 2007 17:41 MYM.Testie wrote: It should be a 2d format. 3d is not necessary for RTS.
True, the 2D makes it fast paced. But a game to be released in 2008 and being 2D...
Yeah the time and the "idea" of someone releasing a game when everything is 3d in a 2d format is completely "almost" dead to everyone, but if someone can pull it off, that someone is Blizzard.
On April 09 2007 17:41 MYM.Testie wrote: It should be a 2d format. 3d is not necessary for RTS.
I think, to go further than saying 3d is not necessary, I'll even say that 3d ends up detracting from an RTS. The fact is that RTSes should not be "visually" driven, but rather gameplay (and I'm including a lot of things in gameplay--the game pace, unit responses, pathing, etc.) oriented. Unit responses were a huge deal-breaker for me in war3. The units just frankly felt clunky. They turned slowly, moved dumbly, etc. Instant turning like in SC is an important aspect of it. Yes, it's not realistic, but neither is most of the stuff in the BW universe. The concept of gameplay is the most important. By the way, did I mention gameplay was important? [/repetition]
I'm not saying the graphics should be like SC's are, since the game would be spectacularly panned if that were the case, even if it had the best gameplay. However, graphics like war3's are also not good. I think the spell system on war3 is too "colorful". Actually, I'm not even sure that I like the idea of many buffs much, frankly. I think too much of a spell system ends up detracting from a game. A few positive/negative buffs are OK, perhaps, but too much and it becomes spell wars. More of a focus on micro/macro/unit production is important (I'm using macro here to include more abstract concepts such as expansion timing, whereas unit production to mean "are my gateways working all the time/pylons warping in time"). A big part of War3 is focused on spells, whereas I find it more fun using lots of "basic" units (which could even include shit like Carriers: I just mean units which attack and move, they don't cast fireball, storm bolt, and anti-magic shell). I'm not a zerg player, I personally find controling the sorts of numbers of units which a protoss has to be the most fun, but I don't think all races should have the same number of units, a variety like T/P/Z has is best!
Har, SC2 should basically just be SC with some changes/additions. I'm a little wary of multiple building selection, since I think it would eliminate a big part of unit production, which is frankly as valid a skill as micro and "strategic thinking" (although I don't think RTSes are nearly as much about strategy as the name might imply... many newbies seem convinced they would be the next Patton if the game were just slower, but when it comes down to it, if you want to play a game where you have time to think and ponder, you should play turn based strategy games). I think multi-cast (or whatever the fuck it's called when you select a bunch of dark archons and hit c and only one casts mind control) is also not a good idea. It overpowers spells like mind control and makes capital ships nearly useless (or else you turn dark archons and units with similar "super" spells into capital-class units themselves). "Smart rally" is fine (rally to minerals-->SCV mines; rally to unit-->units go there automatically; when you rally somewhere, if attacked the attacked unit will fight back [but not go running all over the map after some ling far away])
Quite a few words grown out of a response to a 12 word post.
My only opinion for now is whenever we hear about sc2, we have a couple fucken idiots just randomly act like a moron and scream, "plz dont make it" or it will kill starcraft. Who the hell cares? Their going to make a sequel, yea it will most likely suck, move the hell on. Starcraft will stay alive as long as people wouldn't mind still playing it.
On April 09 2007 17:41 MYM.Testie wrote: It should be a 2d format. 3d is not necessary for RTS.
I think, to go further than saying 3d is not necessary, I'll even say that 3d ends up detracting from an RTS. The fact is that RTSes should not be "visually" driven, but rather gameplay (and I'm including a lot of things in gameplay--the game pace, unit responses, pathing, etc.) oriented. Unit responses were a huge deal-breaker for me in war3. The units just frankly felt clunky. They turned slowly, moved dumbly, etc. Instant turning like in SC is an important aspect of it. Yes, it's not realistic, but neither is most of the stuff in the BW universe. The concept of gameplay is the most important. By the way, did I mention gameplay was important? [/repetition]
I'm not saying the graphics should be like SC's are, since the game would be spectacularly panned if that were the case, even if it had the best gameplay. However, graphics like war3's are also not good. I think the spell system on war3 is too "colorful". Actually, I'm not even sure that I like the idea of many buffs much, frankly. I think too much of a spell system ends up detracting from a game. A few positive/negative buffs are OK, perhaps, but too much and it becomes spell wars. More of a focus on micro/macro/unit production is important (I'm using macro here to include more abstract concepts such as expansion timing, whereas unit production to mean "are my gateways working all the time/pylons warping in time"). A big part of War3 is focused on spells, whereas I find it more fun using lots of "basic" units (which could even include shit like Carriers: I just mean units which attack and move, they don't cast fireball, storm bolt, and anti-magic shell). I'm not a zerg player, I personally find controling the sorts of numbers of units which a protoss has to be the most fun, but I don't think all races should have the same number of units, a variety like T/P/Z has is best!
Har, SC2 should basically just be SC with some changes/additions. I'm a little wary of multiple building selection, since I think it would eliminate a big part of unit production, which is frankly as valid a skill as micro and "strategic thinking" (although I don't think RTSes are nearly as much about strategy as the name might imply... many newbies seem convinced they would be the next Patton if the game were just slower, but when it comes down to it, if you want to play a game where you have time to think and ponder, you should play turn based strategy games). I think multi-cast (or whatever the fuck it's called when you select a bunch of dark archons and hit c and only one casts mind control) is also not a good idea. It overpowers spells like mind control and makes capital ships nearly useless (or else you turn dark archons and units with similar "super" spells into capital-class units themselves). "Smart rally" is fine (rally to minerals-->SCV mines; rally to unit-->units go there automatically; when you rally somewhere, if attacked the attacked unit will fight back [but not go running all over the map after some ling far away])
Quite a few words grown out of a response to a 12 word post.
i agree with you pete 100%. I think Blizzard realizes this, because they havent announced any poor features like heroes, upkeep, or any huge gameplay-changing feature. I think the over 200 food limit is a great idea actually, it wont detract anything from the game and the only reason they had the 200 cap in the first place was because computers couldn't handle them well back in '98. And I like how theyre only adding a few new units and 1 new race, sounds like that is the main new features and that I can live with, as long as the units are acceptable and like you said not too spellcaster oriented.
So far, I'm very pleased. My faith in Blizzard endures.
On April 09 2007 19:48 MaxdigsSoda wrote: i dont believe they will be able to balance 4 races, they didnt manage it with warcraft 3.
1. The 3 races in Starcraft: Brood War is already balanced, and they're simply adding 2 units to each race (same as what Brood War did to Starcraft).
2. Warcraft 3 was so very different, adding the new hero and RPG elements into the game was entirely new and also very very difficult to balance. so while sc2 is only adding 1 new race and 2 new units per old race, WC3 essentially not only added 2 new races and changed the existing races a great deal, they added new things like Heroes, Creeps, Items, Upkeep, Neutral Buildings, and basically made the macro part of an RTS trivially easy.
3. Adding a new race does add a lot of complexity yeah because now there are 3 new matchups to balance (new race mirror match doesnt count), that will be quite a monumental task but I think they can do it.
SC2 LOOKS like it's going to be basically another expansion pack, from this interview.
New race, 2 units + per race, maybe some new tileset and added storyline. Sounds like expansion pack. Not like they're re-making each race and adding new graphics like they did between WC2 and WC3.
That's a good decision, I think. They realize that SC's popularity is in part DUE to its seeming simplicity, and trying to remake the thing would fail.
On April 09 2007 20:10 Last Romantic wrote: SC2 LOOKS like it's going to be basically another expansion pack, from this interview.
New race, 2 units + per race, maybe some new tileset and added storyline. Sounds like expansion pack. Not like they're re-making each race and adding new graphics like they did between WC2 and WC3.
That's a good decision, I think. They realize that SC's popularity is in part DUE to its seeming simplicity, and trying to remake the thing would fail.
I'm fairly excited for it, if this is true.
Ah, it's not an interview. It's a news article, full from fifo
They should make 2 versions: StarCraft 2 Pro and StarCraft 2 Chobo, the latter would have all the multipul building selection and auto-micro for the mass market.
On April 09 2007 20:14 SnoopySnacks wrote: They should make 2 versions: StarCraft 2 Pro and StarCraft 2 Chobo, the latter would have all the multipul building selection and auto-micro for the mass market.
On April 09 2007 18:44 Lycaeus wrote: My only opinion for now is whenever we hear about sc2, we have a couple fucken idiots just randomly act like a moron and scream, "plz dont make it" or it will kill starcraft. Who the hell cares? Their going to make a sequel, yea it will most likely suck, move the hell on. Starcraft will stay alive as long as people wouldn't mind still playing it.
I agree stracraft will stay alive, but that's not the point when people (like me) affirm that we dont want it. Your statement is cute but too simplist. If it wont kill starcraft, it will obviously weaken the active community a lot, like W3 did. W3 is sucky, many people here defend it (because its still better than other RTS games) but it has manys flaws compared to BW. Yet i live in France, and a HUGE part of the BW community left for the sucky game.
It is highly probable that SC2 will suck in order to make the maximum money. Simplist features, 3-D fucking graphics. Not me, not you, but a lot of people will be happy of it though. Lots of kids are happy of changes, even if its sucky, especially if its easier for them. Even here, inside the TL forums. And a huge active part of the community will leave once again, without even talking about the youngest that, for sure, SC will never attract anymore.
Sorry but it is a threat. So if they make it 2-D, improved graphics resolution and colors, and pay a lot of attention balancing the new units and race, adding also contextual features for Bnet, it could be fine. Else i DONT want it. But for god sake, no change for the only purpose of making a change. Wtf with this no limit thing ? Seriously.
On April 09 2007 20:10 Last Romantic wrote: SC2 LOOKS like it's going to be basically another expansion pack, from this interview.
New race, 2 units + per race, maybe some new tileset and added storyline. Sounds like expansion pack. Not like they're re-making each race and adding new graphics like they did between WC2 and WC3.
That's a good decision, I think. They realize that SC's popularity is in part DUE to its seeming simplicity, and trying to remake the thing would fail.
I'm fairly excited for it, if this is true.
Ah, it's not an interview. It's a news article, full from fifo
On April 09 2007 20:10 Last Romantic wrote: SC2 LOOKS like it's going to be basically another expansion pack, from this interview.
New race, 2 units + per race, maybe some new tileset and added storyline. Sounds like expansion pack. Not like they're re-making each race and adding new graphics like they did between WC2 and WC3.
That's a good decision, I think. They realize that SC's popularity is in part DUE to its seeming simplicity, and trying to remake the thing would fail.
I'm fairly excited for it, if this is true.
Even though a game released as a sequel 10 years later can hardly be called an expansion, i agree. There were just a few new units going from SC to BW but they had huge effects.
We really don't need any crazy graphics, but new ones would be nice or a ton of new features. Just a few new things to keep us entertained.
edit: starcraft's speed requirements make the skill scale huge, which is to me a great advantage for hardcore fans. thing is i wouldn't really mind an in-between of starcraft and war3, as long as pros can still do crazy shit that makes me go crazy. i don't see myself playing starcraft as much in a year from now anyway so it'll be nicer to have a newb-friendly base.
10 APM?!? Even I used to play like... 30. Anyway. I hope this is true. I'm not sure of the actual translation, but has anyone from Blizz confirmed the news? Anyway, thanks to both Zil and mk..
1. Although as a hardcore fan, I'm glad that the potential game could be true to SC, I actually think this is an extremely bad decision. My guess is that Blizzard will NOT move this way. Releasing basically an expansion pack would make us all happy, but it would mean that the game would flop in the public's eye (game reviewers, average joe). Note that Q4 for the most part tried to mimic Q3 with a graphics overhaul - not only did it get slammed in general, but it also has a very anemic community. As much as I hate to say it, we need a game that will be flashy and new and appeal to new people, because face it, they keep this game alive as much as the hardcore community does.
2. I actually claimed (under account name naventus) that SC2 was under works a few months ago. Everyone ridiculed my post, and concluded it had to be satire. My source back then was someone in touch with the industry mentioning that Blizzard had just drained a bunch of people to work on D3 and SC2 and SC2 had just been started (D3 a bit further). Just a told you so - otherwise they wouldn't potentially have the beta out by the end of the year/rumors now .
Any reason for this change in name? You've established yourself a reputation here already with naventus... why not use that name, or at least get it switched officially?
1. Although as a hardcore fan, I'm glad that the potential game could be true to SC, I actually think this is an extremely bad decision. My guess is that Blizzard will NOT move this way. Releasing basically an expansion pack would make us all happy, but it would mean that the game would flop in the public's eye (game reviewers, average joe). Note that Q4 for the most part tried to mimic Q3 with a graphics overhaul - not only did it get slammed in general, but it also has a very anemic community. As much as I hate to say it, we need a game that will be flashy and new and appeal to new people, because face it, they keep this game alive as much as the hardcore community does.
2. I actually claimed (under account name naventus) that SC2 was under works a few months ago. Everyone ridiculed my post, and concluded it had to be satire. My source back then was someone in touch with the industry mentioning that Blizzard had just drained a bunch of people to work on D3 and SC2 and SC2 had just been started (D3 a bit further). Just a told you so - otherwise they wouldn't potentially have the beta out by the end of the year/rumors now .
I disagree. Sc now is mostly the competetive community, the only things that the ones who play casually do is make pub games and fill in space on b.net so it doesn't look empty. This will happen anyway just because of the "starcraft" title sc2 will have. Not catering to the wants of the competetive community would be the bad choice by blizzard since that IS what sets sc apart from other games.
Must.....not...believe.... why oh why!? I see the day coming where i have to cut my internet connection so i don't get sucked into the hypestorm. It could be massive...or not. Who knows?? Who the fuck knows?
Drives me crazy.Starcraft 2 is one of the last games i have acctualy hope for. Hope that it wont be one of "those" games wich you play and just go "meh...not enough".
i agree with marquis entirely. there's a lot about starcraft that you can love, and right now you can consider it the pinnacle of rts gaming in its purest form, but you cant let the past hold you back from going into the future. blizzard really should work on trying to innovate the rts genre like they tried to with wc3.
look at the difference between warcraft 2 and 3. that is the sort of thing that really needs to happen. with the starcraft name, blizzard can afford to take risks in order to push the genre forward, and it is by far the best title that can be used to push e-sports a little bit farther into the mainstream.
anything but a fully revamped game that plays essentially nothing like its predecessor would be pathetic. i want starcraft 2, not starcraft: rehashed.
3-d ain't too bad. honestly look at how many pixels cover a 2-d unit right now, fit the 3-d model in there, and keep the same control etc, what do you have to complain about.
Possibility to use replays just like a movie. By clicking on progress status you can choose w/e moment you want. Also zoom would be ok here. New race or new units or both :D. Better graphics but still 2D. Possibility to ctrl+number same buildings at one number and all units and 1 number too only in ums Tabbing between unit groups just like W3 but here tab - groups, ctrl+tab or sth like that to tab between units - good for like tank placement, caster using.You could do it old way or new way, what you would prefer. TvZ would get easier, where for pros it wouldnt matter ;-) When you have like 5 HT marked, they would storm one by one, not all at once - I would love it(like every other low apm user) but it would kill the fun of controlling units, where you can always get better heh.
On April 10 2007 04:19 Musli wrote: When you have like 5 HT marked, they would storm one by one, not all at once - I would love it(like every other low apm user) but it would kill the fun of controlling units, where you can always get better heh.
On April 10 2007 04:19 Musli wrote: When you have like 5 HT marked, they would storm one by one, not all at once - I would love it(like every other low apm user) but it would kill the fun of controlling units, where you can always get better heh.
I am low apm user and i would hate it.
same, i think the decision of which ht (based on position, energy etc.) should be left to the player + their speed
On April 09 2007 22:32 marquis wrote: 2. I actually claimed (under account name naventus) that SC2 was under works a few months ago. Everyone ridiculed my post, and concluded it had to be satire. My source back then was someone in touch with the industry mentioning that Blizzard had just drained a bunch of people to work on D3 and SC2 and SC2 had just been started (D3 a bit further). Just a told you so - otherwise they wouldn't potentially have the beta out by the end of the year/rumors now .
Oh I believe you. Anyone that knows me will tell you I'm enjoying keeping secrets.
i really dont get why everyone wnats to see things implemented that benefit the low apm user. if you cast storm with 5 ht's, they storm 1 at a time. mineral rallies.... seriously, whats the benefit of being a good, fast player? it dilutes the game =[. starcraft for retards = nothx. its alredy diluted enough with all the shitty $ map games.
mineral rallies are OK with me, it makes the interface more clumsy and works against the user ;O
forcing players to make scvs and then having to send them again to mineral patches is not what makes SC a good game
why don't we just disable multiple unit selection at all!! it makes people stupid!! they should send all units individually instead of 12 at a time, that's so unfair while we're at it let's take off medic autocast, also you have to do the command every time you want 2 hp healed
Mastering the race of Kerrigan would take a while, I'm just worried about the korean progaming scene. Nobody would choose Kerrigan for a while and even beating the original races would take a while to master also. But like Testie said, the timings perfect, mineral and such are good, there shouldnt be any changes to that.
On April 10 2007 06:51 j0ehoe wrote: i really dont get why everyone wnats to see things implemented that benefit the low apm user. if you cast storm with 5 ht's, they storm 1 at a time. mineral rallies.... seriously, whats the benefit of being a good, fast player? it dilutes the game =[. starcraft for retards = nothx. its alredy diluted enough with all the shitty $ map games.
What are you trying to say about this? It seems like you're saying being a fast and GOOD player is bad...so why do you bother to play the game? But I agree with you that ralling to minerals automatically would suck.
On April 09 2007 21:28 {88}iNcontroL wrote: interesting, exciting and terrifying at the same time. Havent felt this way since the first time I was constipated.
On April 10 2007 08:30 il0seonpurpose wrote: Mastering the race of Kerrigan would take a while, I'm just worried about the korean progaming scene. Nobody would choose Kerrigan for a while and even beating the original races would take a while to master also. But like Testie said, the timings perfect, mineral and such are good, there shouldnt be any changes to that.
On April 10 2007 06:51 j0ehoe wrote: i really dont get why everyone wnats to see things implemented that benefit the low apm user. if you cast storm with 5 ht's, they storm 1 at a time. mineral rallies.... seriously, whats the benefit of being a good, fast player? it dilutes the game =[. starcraft for retards = nothx. its alredy diluted enough with all the shitty $ map games.
What are you trying to say about this? It seems like you're saying being a fast and GOOD player is bad...so why do you bother to play the game? But I agree with you that ralling to minerals automatically would suck.
i structured it shitty cuz i was in a rush =p. im saying theres no incentive to get better if everyone starts off with retarded handicaps like $ rallies, auto casts for evetyhing, smart spells (5ht example, etc etc.) dont even get me started on having multiple gates to one key -_-
does anyone think might be are planning to redesign/rebalance the existing units/buildings/etc? My interpretation was that they are simply going to add more to the existing game, if these rumors are true.
Maybe they'd feel they have to in order to balance the new race and the new units? hopefully they can find a way not to...
btw, i hope they fix the reaver scarab bug...then implement a new toss bug so you suckers have a new crutch to bitch about for the next decade til sc3 comes out
On April 10 2007 08:30 il0seonpurpose wrote: Mastering the race of Kerrigan would take a while, I'm just worried about the korean progaming scene. Nobody would choose Kerrigan for a while and even beating the original races would take a while to master also. But like Testie said, the timings perfect, mineral and such are good, there shouldnt be any changes to that.
On April 10 2007 06:51 j0ehoe wrote: i really dont get why everyone wnats to see things implemented that benefit the low apm user. if you cast storm with 5 ht's, they storm 1 at a time. mineral rallies.... seriously, whats the benefit of being a good, fast player? it dilutes the game =[. starcraft for retards = nothx. its alredy diluted enough with all the shitty $ map games.
What are you trying to say about this? It seems like you're saying being a fast and GOOD player is bad...so why do you bother to play the game? But I agree with you that ralling to minerals automatically would suck.
i structured it shitty cuz i was in a rush =p. im saying theres no incentive to get better if everyone starts off with retarded handicaps like $ rallies, auto casts for evetyhing, smart spells (5ht example, etc etc.) dont even get me started on having multiple gates to one key -_-
It's really no disaster, it works just fine for Warcraft 3. All it does is make the learning curve slightly less steep, which is great for attracting new players.
Every single SC2 topic I've seen on TL so far has been utterly terrible. A lot of you have to realize that although SC is a great game, they can't just release it again. I don't care to engage in speculations about how the game will look, which units will be added or what the changes will be. It's pointless. We'll see when the beta arrives. The fact that you have to face is that Blizzard is a company, and it needs to make money. To make money, they have to produce games that will sell. For a game to sell, it has to be competitive in the market. This means it will have to look and feel modern.
They don't want to make a game that looks so complex it'll scare the new players away. They need to focus on what the average player wants, not what a bunch of hardcore SC addicts on a forum want.
If it'll suck, then it'll suck, and you can merrily go on playing SC. If it doesn't, then you can move on to SC2. Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell. Till then, all of you, quit yer bitchin'. Thanks.
i think rallying to minerals/gas is fine as you still have to queue units again and again not just a one time queue and leave it be.. plus even if they raise the queue cap beyond 5 to say 10 that means you're spending all 400 minerals right then anyways which is kind of dumb
as for selecting multiple buildings this is simply a terrible idea for one big balance reason, zerg macro would be too ridiculous if you could hit 1 S Z and you just told all 8 hatcheries spread out all over the map to make 48 zerglings..
the clunkiness in the war3 interface is mostly caused by a certain unit vaiable in the map editor affecting rotation speed that can be adjusted
the thing that concerns me the most in war3 is how units automatically enter a grid formation. it makes it very difficult to stay clustered or spread out, you're always stuck in this useless middle ground. this absolutely needs to go, the sc movement code was nearly perfect.
anyone that thinks adding auto rally to mine, multiple building selection, and sane casting ui will ruin the game needs to pull their head out of their ass. all that time spent macroing can be transfered to micro, which no amount of programming can autopilot
On April 10 2007 10:17 vGl-CoW wrote: They need to focus on what the average player wants, not what a bunch of hardcore SC addicts on a forum want.
the average gamer thinks the original SC is a rock-paper-scissors game about countering units and deciding what kind of army to make. the average player wont look beyond this basic concept into any of the many strategical decisions a decent player must make in every game. why should Blizzard cater to these sort of people? i dont think they even can as RTS games are not for them, the concept of strategy and thought is lost.
On April 10 2007 10:17 vGl-CoW wrote: They need to focus on what the average player wants, not what a bunch of hardcore SC addicts on a forum want.
the average gamer thinks the original SC is a rock-paper-scissors game about countering units and deciding what kind of army to make. the average player wont look beyond this basic concept into any of the many strategical decisions a decent player must make in every game. why should Blizzard cater to these sort of people? i dont think they even can as RTS games are not for them, the concept of strategy and thought is lost.
Though you may be right (in that the average user definitely doesn't have the kind of insight we have gained after years of extensive play), Blizzard needs to cater to them because they are the average user. They are the biggest group, and they are the ones that bring in the money. Blizzard would lose money on this if they simply catered to our wishes.
On April 10 2007 10:17 vGl-CoW wrote: They need to focus on what the average player wants, not what a bunch of hardcore SC addicts on a forum want.
the average gamer thinks the original SC is a rock-paper-scissors game about countering units and deciding what kind of army to make. the average player wont look beyond this basic concept into any of the many strategical decisions a decent player must make in every game. why should Blizzard cater to these sort of people? i dont think they even can as RTS games are not for them, the concept of strategy and thought is lost.
Though you may be right (in that the average user definitely doesn't have the kind of insight we have gained after years of extensive play), Blizzard needs to cater to them because they are the average user. They are the biggest group, and they are the ones that bring in the money. Blizzard would lose money on this if they simply catered to our wishes.
all blizzard needs to do is make another excellent, fun campaign, that is what the average sc user wants... most feel they are not good enough to play online, for any RTS or game that takes skill. (take the average WoW player for example)
oh god mineral queue I think would be retarded though it doesn't change balance or anything. I want sc to be as difficult as it is to master. Don't make it easier .
On April 10 2007 11:11 oshibori_probe wrote: wow an emo goth chick race, that sounds fucking great
Neveretheless, she's godly with 50 damage, 400 hp, life regeneration, psionic storm (one of the deadliest protoss spells), cloak (a sneaky terran spell), ensnare (she jizzles all over her prey), and EATS HER OWN SHIT to regain mana!
On April 10 2007 11:26 Lycaeus wrote: i honestly believe if blizz. keeps to the 2d graphics that sc2 would be alot more profitable than a 3d version of sc2 .
me thinks you be wrong.
although we bw junkies would probably gobble it up (assuming its similar to bw now, but improved), no annoying little 13 year olds are gonna have their parents buy it because its not as 'cool' looking as wc3. as much as i want to have a fluid, fast moving bw, i highly doubt well get that :/
On April 10 2007 10:59 tKd_ wrote: oh god mineral queue I think would be retarded though it doesn't change balance or anything. I want sc to be as difficult as it is to master. Don't make it easier .
It would be mind-blowingly retarded *not* to include it. Making the interface better doesn't mean newbs will suddenly be good and you're being foolish if you think it does. The only difference is that any relatively mindless but high APM players at the amateur level will have to get a bit smarter.
edit: I'm assuming by "mineral queue" you mean rallying the CC to minerals and having workers mine automatically when you do.
On April 10 2007 10:17 vGl-CoW wrote: They need to focus on what the average player wants, not what a bunch of hardcore SC addicts on a forum want.
the average gamer thinks the original SC is a rock-paper-scissors game about countering units and deciding what kind of army to make. the average player wont look beyond this basic concept into any of the many strategical decisions a decent player must make in every game. why should Blizzard cater to these sort of people? i dont think they even can as RTS games are not for them, the concept of strategy and thought is lost.
Though you may be right (in that the average user definitely doesn't have the kind of insight we have gained after years of extensive play), Blizzard needs to cater to them because they are the average user. They are the biggest group, and they are the ones that bring in the money. Blizzard would lose money on this if they simply catered to our wishes.
all blizzard needs to do is make another excellent, fun campaign, that is what the average sc user wants... most feel they are not good enough to play online, for any RTS or game that takes skill. (take the average WoW player for example)
actually much of online play is UMS, just make a good engine with lots of UMS possibilities and the game would be ok. For the standard play it is not an either-or situation.
On April 10 2007 11:26 Lycaeus wrote: i honestly believe if blizz. keeps to the 2d graphics that sc2 would be alot more profitable than a 3d version of sc2 .
me thinks you be wrong.
although we bw junkies would probably gobble it up (assuming its similar to bw now, but improved), no annoying little 13 year olds are gonna have their parents buy it because its not as 'cool' looking as wc3. as much as i want to have a fluid, fast moving bw, i highly doubt well get that :/
i understand the thinking behind your views but im not assuming just america and such. I think a starcraft 2d would do *decent* outside of korea. However, in korea, you have a shit load of 13 year olds who don't care about 2d or 3d. They just want to play. they would make up for the rest
On April 10 2007 11:26 Lycaeus wrote: i honestly believe if blizz. keeps to the 2d graphics that sc2 would be alot more profitable than a 3d version of sc2 .
me thinks you be wrong.
although we bw junkies would probably gobble it up (assuming its similar to bw now, but improved), no annoying little 13 year olds are gonna have their parents buy it because its not as 'cool' looking as wc3. as much as i want to have a fluid, fast moving bw, i highly doubt well get that :/
i understand the thinking behind your views but im not assuming just america and such. I think a starcraft 2d would do *decent* outside of korea. However, in korea, you have a shit load of 13 year olds who don't care about 2d or 3d. They just want to play. they would make up for the rest
i was tlaking more broad, yea. korea will eat up anytthing with sc2. but talk to most people not in korea and they dont know wtf starcraft is. its not like its like CS or something. its not mainstream. if they push out something with outdated graphics, its not gonna sell here.
Long story short, what will this game be? Something to cater to the masses and attempt to kill this game for profit?
Or the better long term goal of creating an amazing game that could continue professional gaming and revolutionize it. To do this, the pace must and minerals must remain the same. Also, they should not dumb down the game. You are supposed to respect a professional gamer for doing so many things at once while playing so brilliantly. If Nada has all his scv's on his mine, while keeping his command center, & all his other buildings flashing, while he's maneuvering his army and microing extremely wow, it gives an aura of "holy shit!" Unlike War3 where you're damn near bored to tears because they simply aren't doing nearly as much.
There is absolutely no reason to revise these things such as prices or unit hp and damages because they have already been perfected If they are to revise some things, it should be kept to a few units, and very minor changes that skilled beta testers should use their input with great discretion and not make judgements until a good length of testing.
Watching war3 is not nearly as exciting as watching great games of BW unless there is an announcer doing a very good job in War3 creating excitement. BW doesn't even need an announcer to be awesome. You just need to see stuff like, "omfg proleague finals. SEA VS GORUSH???" "WHY DO THEY PUT SOMEONE SO YOUNG IN THERE?" -- huge debate Sea wins. "That's why".
ARRRRRRRRT.
If it something to cater to the masses, I am under the impression they will butcher something they didn't know they created. As said by Eri on his trip to Korea (I think it was Eri) they re-invented chess and made it fun to watch.
On April 10 2007 10:31 Zanno wrote: the clunkiness in the war3 interface is mostly caused by a certain unit vaiable in the map editor affecting rotation speed that can be adjusted
[...]
all that time spent macroing can be transfered to micro, which no amount of programming can autopilot
First of all I know it can be adjusted, but you can't adjust it for melee which is where it matters anyway.
Secondly, macro is a valid skill which shouldn't be eliminated from the game. Yeah, micro is important, but take out most of the macro and you're left with a game like War3 in which macro is relatively simplistic. Not nearly as much fun, in my opinion. You should have more options: whether you want to spend your time on microing your units, or macroing up more while maybe controling your existing units not quite so well. Forcing players to play only one style just makes the game more boring.
these were the new units that were going in that game.
* Terran Grizzly - this Terran fighter-bomber can carry 3 passengers in addition to its crew of two. The pilot fires a light gun, while other crew members and passenger can operate a missile turret, two flak cannons, and concussion bombs.
* Terran Stinger - this six-wheeled Terran jeep fills a role in between that of the Terran Vulture and the Terran Siege Tank. It has a crew of two and is equipped with a heavy assault cannon.This unit was originally seen in a cutscene in StarCraft, where the crew was ambushed by the Zerg. * Terran Light Infantry - security guards found in various Terran installations, they are equipped with lighter armor than Terran Marines. They carry a decloaking device to keep out infiltrators, and can carry Torrent SR 8 shotguns (their main weapon), flak pistols and chain guns. While they can use the C-14 "Impaler" rifle, this is not standard equipment for them. In addition, the light infantry can create and repair automated defense turrets and small chain guns, which have more powerful abilities than the light infantry's own weak attacks. The chain guns can be attached to vehicles. * Terran Spectre - the result of genetic experiments conducted on Terran Ghosts using terrazine gas, almost nothing is known about these soldiers.
Protoss Vindicator
* Protoss Vindicator - formerly known as the Purifier, little is known about this unit. It appeared to carry a single large "lightning gun" on its arm. The Vindicator did not show the ability to move while firing the ranged weapon.
On April 10 2007 10:31 Zanno wrote: the clunkiness in the war3 interface is mostly caused by a certain unit vaiable in the map editor affecting rotation speed that can be adjusted
[...]
all that time spent macroing can be transfered to micro, which no amount of programming can autopilot
First of all I know it can be adjusted, but you can't adjust it for melee which is where it matters anyway.
Secondly, macro is a valid skill which shouldn't be eliminated from the game. Yeah, micro is important, but take out most of the macro and you're left with a game like War3 in which macro is relatively simplistic. Not nearly as much fun, in my opinion. You should have more options: whether you want to spend your time on microing your units, or macroing up more while maybe controling your existing units not quite so well. Forcing players to play only one style just makes the game more boring.
not only this but macro is very important from a strategical standpoint as well, it opens a lot of possibilities that wc3 completely lacked. not only does it provide many options in terms of production/tech/expanding (or to opt not to do it), but it also is a great target for attackers to hinder you
I believe that Blizz won\'t end the story with this next game. Since they are adding a new race, it can be so retarded not to make it SC2. I do think that they will add an expansion onto SC2.
Regarding the Storyline:
I believe that Kerrigan will be pitted against Duran and his Hybrid race. I garuntee Duran is a Xel\'Naga and one of a few left in the SC world and we may see a few more appear during the story.
Mengsk will be on his way to securing his Dominion and find a way to kill Kerrigan on his own. I think that we\'ll see Mengsk infested by the end of SC2 but you\'ll see more of him in the expansion.
Raynor will find a way to reunite with Zeratul and Artanis. Prolly mid story. They will finally understand that liberating Aiur will be a lost cause until Kerrigan is dead and with news about the Hybrid race (secret campaign mission during BW\'s Zerg Campaign), Zeratul will be on a hunt to kill as many Hybrids as he can before they hatch. So Zeratul will be on his own til mid SC2. A new character- Taldarin from the Ressurection map from N64 SC:BW. The new praetor? I don\'t know what Taldarin will bring to the story.
Kerrigan, being the biggest force in the sector, will find the Hybrids once they \'awaken\' and find that they will be a bigger task that she can handle just with her own broods. She realizes to control all the Zerg on her own to its full potential, that she will have to resurect the Overmind and it\'s celebrates. The Hybrids will assault Kerrigan while the overmind is being created but it will be too late. The overmind will be born and the balance will shift back towards Kerrigan. But the Overmind will be aware that Kerrigan has overwhelming power and will take control of many of the broods pitting Kerrigan\'s forces against the Overmind\'s causing chaos.
The U.E.D.???????? It\'s possible of a return though it may becomd too farfetched being they sent many many forces already to take over the sector. BUT Stukov is alive! Resurrection.scx proves this! He was infested but was injected with a serum by Raynor and Taldarin. So maybe as a joint force they will send a transmission back to Earth to help vs. the Hybrids and to help vs. the finding of the overmind. This will happen early in SC2 if it happens at all. Or they send the transmission during SC2 but they don\'t arrive until the expansion to SC2. THEN THE GAME LIVES ON FOR ANOTHER 10 years like BW has!
New Units (From Storyline)
The Terran Dominion never used the Medic or the Valk during BW but will start using them now (this will count for all Terrans) And along the way they\'ll create 2 new units.
Once the Overmind is created it will give birth to 2 new strains of Zerg. Dunno what units they will be.
The Protoss will seek a new type of Templar to fight the Zerg and Hybrid. Like Terran and Zerg, I\'m not really sure what it is capable of. I will say out of all the new units, the one i will speculate to be 99% sure of is that on Protoss units will be a relatively weak unit with a light gun. Upgradeable at the citidel of Adun where Zealot speed will help this unit as well. They are from StarCraft: Ghost (if u ever seen the screenshots). I think the name of it is the Vindicator or something like that lol. I think the unit is just a Protoss Civilian that is called on to help fight the enemies of the Protoss.
If anyone out there believes that people will refuse to buy a 2D game, they need to take a look at the Guilty Gear series... It's completely possible to make a spectacular-looking 2D game with all the flash and whatnot. Given today's technology, however, I honestly don't believe it will be much cheaper to do so unless Blizzard plans to create a brand new graphics engine to power SC2 (something that I honestly doubt will happen).
There is absolutely no reason to revise these things such as prices or unit hp and damages because they have already been perfected If they are to revise some things, it should be kept to a few units, and very minor changes that skilled beta testers should use their input with great discretion and not make judgements until a good length of testing.
.
You will have to revamp practically everything if you are gonna add a new race and a couple units to each of the existing races. And what if new features like manipulable environments or special events (some examples can be day/night/weather affecting the way the game plays, in predictable cycles of course) are added? Everyones been saying this, but I'll say it again, SC2 probably won't be much like SC. But hopefully, it can still capture SCBW's spirit in fast, intense, and action oriented gameplay.
Then Crazie, you may have too many factors to balance. It may not be impossible, but it makes it much more highly improbable to revolutionize progaming at the stage it is at now. It is very real to start professional gaming now in many countries. But you cannot test the waters, you have to dive in, put your money where the idea is, and run with it. That is why it has succeeded in South Korea. They started out extremely small, and they created the market for it. People want to see the human talent at work mastering an arguably beautiful and amazing game.
Why would you have to revamp everything? You can simply make the new race fit into this balance they already have. Thus not totally destroying it and taking a big risk. Should they really make this just another game about pushing graphics engines? Or should they use great graphics, but not out of this world, and leave it so more people can play the game etc...
Leave the many cool ideas for a game less likely to be the single best RTS of the century. Just think, Chess. Does it really need something added to it?
It's might be fun to play game designer, but leave flashy ideas that may be all flash and no substance for test drives and other games. For instance, the idea of weather conditions as an example, do not make it a necessity, but a "feature". That way if weather somehow imbalanced the game to an unpopular degree, you could play the regular setting professionally.
Anyway, i'm just repeating myself. Sorry. This is a big chance to either help professional gaming and push it forward, or make a mockery of it as we all continue to play BW with South Korea and are left unsettled at another failed RTS. Blizzard already has an unrivaled MMO for the masses and the dollar. The future of e-sports in the rest of the world could be in their hands whether they are ready for it or not.
Honestly I think it's pretty ridicilous to think that Starcraft 2 wont have graphic in 3D or that it wont involve major changes when it comes to unit costs etc. I don't understand all the conservative opinions in this topic, why are people so afraid of changes? Please don't compare Wc3 with Starcraft, it's two different games. Just because Wc3 was in 3D and sucked/lacked high pace (some people think) doesnt mean that Starcraft 2 in 3D will suck and lose the high pace/APM that Starcraft has today.
Take Diablo I for example, it was the perfect action-RPG game. Blizzard reinvented it with new graphics and still kept the feeling with Diablo II. Same thing about Warcraft III vs Warcraft II. I think people need to keep a little more faith in Blizzard's ability to make awesome games, cause they have never failed with making perfect sequels - so why would they now?
mineral queue is fine think about it you still have to remember to constantly produce workers at your expansions and switch rally point from gas/minerals or vice versa plus build extractor/refinery/assimilator.
Raist, mineral queue has already been addressed. Let it atleast be a toggled feature. Sending miners to their workers actually takes a lot of skill from the game, believe it or not. And professionals should have to do it all manually.
I don't care if you're at the same strategic level in basketball as Allen Iverson. If you cannot keep up with him and make decisions as fast as he does, you should not be trying to play with him.
Anything that makes all attack and like select an area and the scv repairs all damaged things etc. would detract from what makes sc so good. Keep game play the same, maybe update graphics some add in a new race/units. NOTHING ELSE. It would make the game so dull if things were so easy a moron could do it. All these auto features are stupid to even consider unless you want the whole concept of progaming and good players to disappear. SC is not a newb friendly and shouldn't be.
Btw rel you better play sc2 with me .
edit testie had a much better analogy/thought than mine.
We will probably see at the first screenshot/trailer release if the game is going to focus on noob shit or not.
Anyway, in the beta everybody on teamliquid with high skill must apply so the game gets tested with high skilled starcraft players, that way before the initial release of starcraft 2 we could have some influence on the outcome.
well one thing is, when you have gotten rid of the mechanics of various processes, what is left. if what is left is made larger to compensate(for skill differentiation or content), then there is no problems as far as skill differentiation is concerned, although it would change the character of the game, which admittedly is important to keep. however, i dont think such a tradeoff is necessarily for the worse. you could be spending the time sending workers on positioning your troops (once more tactical possibilities are given) or doing some other more productive activities.
nevertheless, there are good ways to introduce noob friendly features.make them cost money and time to research. the pros wont be using it while the noobs will. i know i will research automine with my first however minerals.
however, I honestly don't believe it will be much cheaper to do so unless Blizzard plans to create a brand new graphics engine to power SC2 (something that I honestly doubt will happen).
Blizzard procured a new gaming engine a little while back. (same engine that was responsible for Age of Empires and a myriad of other games)
Anyway, i'm just repeating myself. Sorry. This is a big chance to either help professional gaming and push it forward, or make a mockery of it as we all continue to play BW with South Korea and are left unsettled at another failed RTS.
100% agreed. I'm really hoping Blizzard is going to push for the former...
I think they should should keep the things that make BW good such as the speed, micro, macro, but change a lot of other things like units, spells, maps etc.
It's be good to see new strats and units rather than the same standard stuff with just updated surroundings and graphics. I don't think change would be a bad thing for BW as long as they keep the essence of the game the same.
I hate it when SC2 comes up because the same comments are made. Here is something to keep in mind gentlemen...
SC2 MUST BE A NEW GAME!
If it looks like a BW expansion with some nicer graphics and a new race with identical functioning, it WILL suck. Embrace the changes and evolution of the franchise. I trust Blizz to make a good game.
i just hope the beta testers are skilled players like testie and other gosus, so their opinions are more accurate, we dont want chobos or noobs to be testers, but people who know their shit
On April 10 2007 20:31 ManaBlue wrote: I hate it when SC2 comes up because the same comments are made. Here is something to keep in mind gentlemen...
SC2 MUST BE A NEW GAME!
If it looks like a BW expansion with some nicer graphics and a new race with identical functioning, it WILL suck. Embrace the changes and evolution of the franchise. I trust Blizz to make a good game.
Agreed with manablue. Many people here are WAY too conservative. I want a different game that's good for the same reasons SC:BW is good:
1. Big payoff for little things, like proper storm placement, plague, or vulture harassment. 2. High lethality, things die FAST, before getting a hit in, in many cases, related to above. makes micro rewarding and gives you immediate feedback 3. Flexible economic model, with both incremental investments (more probes) and major investments (expansions)... helps gives strategic depth 4. Almost always more to do than you can handle, keeps you in flow (i.e., game needs to be fast). 5. Multiple viable options at most points in the game allowing strategic depth, making recon/counter-recon important, etc. 6. Different races to give asymmetrical options and roles to each player, while balanced to still be fair. (see Flow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology))
All of that except for balance should be pretty straightforward for a company of Blizzard's stature to deliver out of the box. Balance, is overrated in importance here too. War3 isn't boring because it's imbalanced, it was boring because it was too slow (just sitting and watching your units move across the screen half the time), not rewarding enough (micro became a chore rather than a WHOA sort of thing like in SC), dumbed down economic strategy, and not very good feedback (as a beginner, i saw all these spells and animations flashing around, then a minute later one army is left standing seemingly randomly).
Age of Empires, on the other hand, was a pretty good game because it had most of the above elements. But it wasn't really balanced, despite the races being basically the same.
If SC2 is fast, demanding, lethal, rewarding, economically flexible, etc., it'll be a success. Balance will come with time... with patches, any glaring imbalances can be fixed pretty quickly. And small imbalances won't ruin the game as long as the game always demands more than a player can handle, because they can overcome the imbalance by improving.
On April 10 2007 21:01 PaeZ wrote: i just hope the beta testers are skilled players like testie and other gosus, so their opinions are more accurate, we dont want chobos or noobs to be testers, but people who know their shit
i hope they're generally skilled players... fast, smart, dedicated, etc., but not so ingrained into the little existing nuances of BW that they're afraid of change.
edit: they have zileas, right? he better be on the SC2 team
Manablue nailed it on the head. People are constantly looking for the next big "pro" game and alot think it might be found in CnC3 (highly doubtful beyond 6 months imo). The number of factors that played into BW becoming the success that it is are impossible to replicate.
Im sure they are working in close conjunction with korean teams/kespa to figure out what makes it succesful professionally and how the can keep that in the game while evolving to modern expectations of more casual gamers.
From Blizzard's website, Game Testers are supposed to be living within the Blizzard Company community. That means they won't be able to hire pro or semi-pro gamers unless they move there. Besides, I doubt Blizzard will even care what pro gamers think. If I was Blizzard, I wouldn't. Think about all the great games they've created without "pro gamer" help.
On April 10 2007 23:47 ahk-gosu wrote: it would suck if the sc1 community died for the sc2 community.
it might not be the same anymore ><
like with korean progamers
Blizzard is going more mainsteram unfortunately, but man.. the game might suck! Then it wont matter, we only have to worry about the sc1 community if sc2 is a superb game.
But maybe the sc1/2 community can go hand in hand? who knows? Maybe sc2 will attract more sc1 players?
O my god it's scary. Do you think if they change major things we will have such a good game ? It is highly unlikely. The people who made starcraft did it carefully for sure, but it requires much more than that to do such a great game. It requires luck. Do you think the original programmers thought it will work that way ? Even if now they are aware of some recipes, it's almost sure it won't be as good, especially if it's 3-D and simplified.
Of course a lot of people here will like it and will settle for it. But explain to me what's the point in switching game if the new one sucks more, except from the first discovery weeks ? Saying that blizzard always did great games is true. Saying that blizzard will release something as great as starcraft is probably not. Warcraft 3 is not bad but it sucks compared to starcraft, it is blatant. I played both, and gave the former a fair chance... Yet a lot of people settle for it. Because they have reasons to prefer (it's cute!, i loose less, noob friendly), but probably not for the subtlest qualities of the game.
And for the last time, stop saying it won't be harmful for the sc1 community if sc2 sucks ass, cause you can't be further from the truth.
They should work on what they've already done. If they want to advance and try to revolutionize everything at least they could do it on another name and let the game in peace. Really i want to believe like i did before War3, but i'm scared. If they manage to do something as perfect, then <3. Else the stacraft community -1/3 will continue to survive, with even less attention and hope of new comers than before.
On April 11 2007 01:07 Fuu wrote: O my god it's scary. Do you think if they change major things we will have such a good game ? It is highly unlikely. The people who made starcraft did it carefully for sure, but it requires much more than that to do such a great game. It requires luck. Do you think the original programmers thought it will work that way ? Even if now they are aware of some recipes, it's almost sure it won't be as good, especially if it's 3-D and simplified.
Of course a lot of people here will like it and will settle for it. But explain to me what's the point in switching game if the new one sucks more, except from the first discovery weeks ? Saying that blizzard always did great games is true. Saying that blizzard will release something as great as starcraft is probably not. Warcraft 3 is not bad but it sucks compared to starcraft, it is blatant. I played both, and gave the former a fair chance... Yet a lot of people settle for it. Because they have reasons to prefer (it's cute!, i loose less, noob friendly), but probably not for the subtlest qualities of the game.
And for the last time, stop saying it won't be harmful for the sc1 community if sc2 sucks ass, cause you can't be further from the truth.
They should work on what they've already done. If they want to advance and try to revolutionize everything at least they could do it on another name and let the game in peace. Really i want to believe like i did before War3, but i'm scared. If they manage to do something as perfect, then <3. Else the stacraft community -1/3 will continue to survive, with even less attention and hope of new comers than before.
On April 10 2007 02:32 AiurZ wrote: i agree with marquis entirely. there's a lot about starcraft that you can love, and right now you can consider it the pinnacle of rts gaming in its purest form, but you cant let the past hold you back from going into the future. blizzard really should work on trying to innovate the rts genre like they tried to with wc3.
look at the difference between warcraft 2 and 3. that is the sort of thing that really needs to happen. with the starcraft name, blizzard can afford to take risks in order to push the genre forward, and it is by far the best title that can be used to push e-sports a little bit farther into the mainstream.
anything but a fully revamped game that plays essentially nothing like its predecessor would be pathetic. i want starcraft 2, not starcraft: rehashed.
Uhhhhhhhhh, if the game DOESNT play like starcraft, that would be terrible.
I'm not saying I want SC: Rehased because I don't think that's the way to go if we want the game to be commercially and competitively successful.
I want a game that is as great as SC, one that captures the same feeling and has the same feel. I want clean, SC style graphics (if it isn't 2d that's fine, it's 2007 - we should be able to make a 3D game with the same flow as a 2D game) - and by this I don't mean 1998 style graphics, I just mean the feel.
IE, plz don't make it warcraft 3 cartoony. I like war3 graphics, in a way, but they'd suck for BW
I want a game made for competitive gaming basically, so yeah, a simple, fast and deep game. Like BW, but new.
On April 10 2007 22:10 Raist wrote: ugh zileas worked on wc3 didnt he? i kind of remember him having some poor ideas later on (initially i liked him tho)
it's all just fuzzy memories though
Hm, wasn't he only involved in the expansion (which was a massive improvement over the original)?
On April 11 2007 01:07 Fuu wrote: O my god it's scary. Do you think if they change major things we will have such a good game ? It is highly unlikely. The people who made starcraft did it carefully for sure, but it requires much more than that to do such a great game. It requires luck. Do you think the original programmers thought it will work that way ? Even if now they are aware of some recipes, it's almost sure it won't be as good, especially if it's 3-D and simplified.
Of course a lot of people here will like it and will settle for it. But explain to me what's the point in switching game if the new one sucks more, except from the first discovery weeks ? Saying that blizzard always did great games is true. Saying that blizzard will release something as great as starcraft is probably not. Warcraft 3 is not bad but it sucks compared to starcraft, it is blatant. I played both, and gave the former a fair chance... Yet a lot of people settle for it. Because they have reasons to prefer (it's cute!, i loose less, noob friendly), but probably not for the subtlest qualities of the game.
And for the last time, stop saying it won't be harmful for the sc1 community if sc2 sucks ass, cause you can't be further from the truth.
They should work on what they've already done. If they want to advance and try to revolutionize everything at least they could do it on another name and let the game in peace. Really i want to believe like i did before War3, but i'm scared. If they manage to do something as perfect, then <3. Else the stacraft community -1/3 will continue to survive, with even less attention and hope of new comers than before.
Meh, sure it's scary but come on - you can't choose to not do something just cause it's a little bit scary..
Blizzard has made 4 great RTS games, sure, war3 was not as good as their previous games in some peoples eyes (like mine), but they've made 2 games that I loved (I never really played warcraft 1) - Warcraft 2 and Starcraft, so clearly they are very capable people.
Remember that SC was very imbalanced when it came out, it took several patches (up to 1.08 IIRC) until it was fully balanced. SC 1.0 was really crappy in terms of balance, BW 1.04 was much better but still not good enough. Balancing takes time.
I think the biggest problem that SC2 is going to have is the SC community not willing to give it a chance from the very beginning.
Poll: Will you buy it? (Vote): Yes, no matter what the price (Vote): No (Vote): Only if it is 40$ or less (Vote): Only if it is 30$ or less (Vote): Only if it is 20$ or less
On April 11 2007 07:34 Brutalisk wrote: Remember that SC was very imbalanced when it came out, it took several patches (up to 1.08 IIRC) until it was fully balanced. SC 1.0 was really crappy in terms of balance, BW 1.04 was much better but still not good enough. Balancing takes time.
I think the biggest problem that SC2 is going to have is the SC community not willing to give it a chance from the very beginning.
On April 11 2007 07:34 Brutalisk wrote: Remember that SC was very imbalanced when it came out, it took several patches (up to 1.08 IIRC) until it was fully balanced. SC 1.0 was really crappy in terms of balance, BW 1.04 was much better but still not good enough. Balancing takes time.
I think the biggest problem that SC2 is going to have is the SC community not willing to give it a chance from the very beginning.
remember that right now warcraft 3 the frozen throne isnt balanced, and is still a noob game
On April 11 2007 01:07 Fuu wrote: O my god it's scary. Do you think if they change major things we will have such a good game ? It is highly unlikely. The people who made starcraft did it carefully for sure, but it requires much more than that to do such a great game. It requires luck. Do you think the original programmers thought it will work that way ? Even if now they are aware of some recipes, it's almost sure it won't be as good, especially if it's 3-D and simplified.
Of course a lot of people here will like it and will settle for it. But explain to me what's the point in switching game if the new one sucks more, except from the first discovery weeks ? Saying that blizzard always did great games is true. Saying that blizzard will release something as great as starcraft is probably not. Warcraft 3 is not bad but it sucks compared to starcraft, it is blatant. I played both, and gave the former a fair chance... Yet a lot of people settle for it. Because they have reasons to prefer (it's cute!, i loose less, noob friendly), but probably not for the subtlest qualities of the game.
And for the last time, stop saying it won't be harmful for the sc1 community if sc2 sucks ass, cause you can't be further from the truth.
They should work on what they've already done. If they want to advance and try to revolutionize everything at least they could do it on another name and let the game in peace. Really i want to believe like i did before War3, but i'm scared. If they manage to do something as perfect, then <3. Else the stacraft community -1/3 will continue to survive, with even less attention and hope of new comers than before.
Meh, sure it's scary but come on - you can't choose to not do something just cause it's a little bit scary..
Blizzard has made 4 great RTS games, sure, war3 was not as good as their previous games in some peoples eyes (like mine), but they've made 2 games that I loved (I never really played warcraft 1) - Warcraft 2 and Starcraft, so clearly they are very capable people.
I have faith.
I like your optimism, and i am conscious that they are very very capable people. They did good on all their attempts but, as i already said, i think somehow starcraft evolved into something which was not really planed in the beginning. It can't be reproduced easy, especially if they introduce some shattering features - and yes i think 3-D is one.
Objectively, i dont see any flaws in the sc game today. So if we take apart changes in the sole purpose of making changes, what could really be improved ? Maybe more diversity and slightly better graphisms... Which would lead to a sort of extension set.
Note I am not saying it would be good for Blizzard and their sells on the game. I didn't say either it would be the best way to improve the european progaming, cause our western countries stay too focused on superficial parts of a game (accessibility, visual impression...) ; and a lot of these young new posters on TL.net. I am just speaking from my player point of view.
But i am convinced that, anyway, Blizzard will make changes in the sole purpose of making changes, to see if it works as well as the previous one with new attractive features for the wide newb public, and THIS is risky. Thats why i am worried.
Even if they tried to make it exactly the same but just updated the graphics and such there will be a lot of ppl who hate it, look at source. There they tried to make the game similar to the original cs and so many ppl just complained because they were so used to 1.6 and it's only just about catching up now. Good luck to blizzard.
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented level designer with experience building levels using any popular 3D Real-Time Strategy game toolset (Warcraft 3, Rise of Legends, Command and Conquer, etc). ... Experience creating levels in 3D RTS game toolset (Warcraft 3, Rise of Legends, etc)
wouldnt this indicate they want SC2 to be 3D? yeah sure they havent filled the position yet but why haven't they closed it if they're going to make it 2D?
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented level designer with experience building levels using any popular 3D Real-Time Strategy game toolset (Warcraft 3, Rise of Legends, Command and Conquer, etc). ... Experience creating levels in 3D RTS game toolset (Warcraft 3, Rise of Legends, etc)
wouldnt this indicate they want SC2 to be 3D? yeah sure they havent filled the position yet but why haven't they closed it if they're going to make it 2D?
I think it's understood at this point that games will be 3D. That doesn't mean they HAVE to be slow...just at this point, they tend to be.
Dealing with air is the most painful thing in WC3. Anyone who has played a lot against Destroyers knows what I'm talking about - large flying units stack all over the other units, and it's a pain to do all your important spells on specific targets.
On April 09 2007 15:37 semioldguy wrote: Thanks for the translation mk..))
That's some interesting stuff and answers a few of the question I've had, as well as many others I'm sure. I still maintain the hope that it remains a fast paced game, 3d is okay as long as the game remains high speed. It'd be nice if all SCBW hotkeys were retained in sc2 to allow for an ease of transition to the new game.
I still have my doubts that it will be any better than the starcraft we have now.
I hope they CHANGE hotkeys, because hotkeys chosen by initial letters is a very bad thing in the first place. Imagine CS where you'd switch to pistol with p and rifle with r, knife with k etc..
Will it hurt the SC community if it's bad. Certainly, just look at CS and CS:S.
Also, changes to hotkeyed buildings, resourcegathering etc aren't necessarily a bad thing, only if the changes are worse. I can think of lots of things in SC which doesn't add to the quality of the game and are just plain annoying. Black map anyone?
Wait and see I guess, but blizzards track record has been appaling these last 5+ years so..
they really just need to allow for ingame support of customizable hotkeys because [P]robe [P]ylons [P]atrol siege m[O]de b[U]rrow [M]arine [M]ove [I]rradiate dar[k] templar are all terrible hotkeys as they arent reachable w/ your left hand, i still often mis-press the hotkey and it has costed me the game several times when trying to b[U]rrow my lurkers and I press I or Y or something instead
Could be a coinsidence but i noticed in the burning crusade, expansion to WoW.. Alot of SC related words throughout the game. just a few... (maelstorm, wraith, nexus, ghost.. etc.. theres a bunch anyway.) I guess i dont care what they do cause they will do what they will.. but i just hope sc2 is good and i'll definitely give it a shot.
On April 11 2007 11:13 drift0ut wrote: Even if they tried to make it exactly the same but just updated the graphics and such there will be a lot of ppl who hate it, look at source. There they tried to make the game similar to the original cs and so many ppl just complained because they were so used to 1.6 and it's only just about catching up now. Good luck to blizzard.
Yeah its so true. Source doesnt even has as many players as 1.6 2+ years after release and it only looks worse with all the pub servers basically abandoning map variety in a similar fashion to what happened with BW and Lost Temple a few years after release.
It is just really hard to release an update to a hugely popular competitive game, I really think trying to appeal to the professional aspect of gaming is a mistake though. You just can't CREATE a game specifically for that, people have to CHOOSE the game they want to play. Look at a game like C&C3, they put all these features in.. But it won't have a huge competitive player base to begin with unless its really good(And I have my doubts, though I dont plan on playing it to find out). It just seems doomed to be forgotten by anyone but hardcore C&C fans in 6 months. The Relic RTS's are the same way.
Starcraft is a huge franchise but the only way I see it working out as a competitive platform is if it once again manages to pull in huge amounts of players. And it will only do that by actually being fun. So as much as players like Testie would be livid over the inclusion of newb friendly features like automining or being able to select more than 12 units, I just think at least some of it will be necessary for anyone semi casual to even bother playing fun big FFA or team matches and thereby boosting the amount of players who are interested in the game as spectators.
It can't do much worse than Warcraft 3 I guess. I think that game was kinda underwhelming commercially as well, maybe a reflection of how simple and boring it can be. And maybe had something to do with how taxing it was on mid level systems at the time of release, video cards had only been adopted by gamers so a lot of people didnt have them yet and doing long 4+ player matches would bring computers without a lot of ram and decent processors to a halt. Shit DOTA still manages to take 45 seconds to load for some people it would seem. Maybe going 3D would be a mistake.
But then again 10 fucking years is a long time to wait, im gonna be on my way to 25 when this shit POSSIBLY comes out and really I just wish BW would have gotten another expansion 2+ fuckin years ago.
People play(ed) BW FFAs for fun without being able to select more than 12 units or rally workers to automine - the result is that they play slightly worse, but I doubt the casual gamers care?
Sure, they have 5 workers waiting to mine, but so what?
On April 11 2007 18:20 FrozenArbiter wrote: People play(ed) BW FFAs for fun without being able to select more than 12 units or rally workers to automine - the result is that they play slightly worse, but I doubt the casual gamers care?
Sure, they have 5 workers waiting to mine, but so what?
Well, once you've got used to an easier system, it's hard to go back. I once downloaded Dune 2 and tried to play it again. I couldn't believe I couldn't select more than one unit at a time, and I couldn't believe how much that meant to me. I also installed Starcraft: BW on my laptop before going on a conference, without downloading the lastest patches. It was torture to play. No right clicking to set rally points?
Ok people listen up. I play both SC:BW and W3:TFT and both have different feels and gameplay as you all well know(as was intended by blizzard). They wanted W3 to have its own unique feel, seperate from Starcraft. I see people complaining about how Starcraft will be ruined, the new graphics will "slow the game down", not balanced, and wanting blizzard to keep Starcraft 2 like Starcraft was but just "rebuffed".
First off the original Starcraft released in 1998 people. The age where 3D graphics hadnt been widely used or good(no software of hardware for it). This is 2007. Blizzard will be expecting people to have decent an enough PC to run SC2 in at least a decent resolution. People want SC2 to be exactly as it is right now with better graphics and thats just setting SC2 up for failure with the rest of the people who didnt like SC from the start(or wernt a big fan).
I expect the speed of gameplay to be a little slower than Starcraft but significantly faster than W3. They will make games last longer than 2 minutes, slow down unit building time somewhat but most definatly keep a high unit production count(150-200). Units wont die in 1 second but rather have some type of micro-management ability where it would increase skill variety and gameplay(as apposed to just no micro management early game for SC, save protoss).
As far as balance goes, Blizzard knows the task at hand and the hype they have to live up to in order to make Starcraft 2 the best RTS to date(which i believe it will end up being). Quick gameplay mixed with micro and macro management skills as well as new special units,perhaps new features(perhaps say if a unit gets "X" amount of kills hes promotedand earns an ability?)as well as greater variety in strategy(4 races instead of 3).
Starcraft 2 will be a game to look forward to and i will be at the front lines primed and ready!!
whos Daemon Hatfield???, the writer of that article im sure someone knows... , confess!
im counting on blizzard to make a wonderful game. of course it wont be balanced, but hopefully they will know that we have great knowledge of the game and they will take our inputs seriously, and try to fix to make the most balanced game they can, like they did with original sc and sc broodwar.
i just hope tho, that by being a good sc BW player, one will also be good at sc2.... what if ur pro SC BW then some new schooler who hardly played BW smashed u at sc2???
"Blizzard has an event coming up in Korea where they are expected to make a large announcement, so it could very well be that the company has chosen the area where StarCraft is the most popular to announce its sequel" oooo even more interesting.
I've never played WC3 but I highly doubt that it's a "noob game". It is different from SC, that's all. From what I know, there are simply other qualities needed (most important: more micro). Besides, there are a few (mostly Korean I thijnk) WC3 pro gamers who switched to SC (because it's more popular and therefore more lucrative) and are doing quite well there.
On April 11 2007 22:50 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Hype, hype, hype everywhere... and all of it is meaningless
Everything ought to be ignored unless spoken from a Blizzard rep's mouth directly on the subject
if either sc2 or diablo 3 are not announced within the next 6 months you can permanently ban my account/IP/MAC whatever the hell you can think of, im sure there's something.
reason why i am so sure is because i met with a blizz person within the last year and he/she told me that both were in actual development (like, coding). any more details about it and I could get that person in trouble, sorry I just cannot do that, just letting you know why I'm so sure on this.
On April 11 2007 23:11 InToTheWannaB wrote: "Blizzard has an event coming up in Korea where they are expected to make a large announcement, so it could very well be that the company has chosen the area where StarCraft is the most popular to announce its sequel" oooo even more interesting.
On April 11 2007 22:13 Thunderl1ng wrote: Ok people listen up. I play both SC:BW and W3:TFT and both have different feels and gameplay as you all well know(as was intended by blizzard). They wanted W3 to have its own unique feel, seperate from Starcraft. I see people complaining about how Starcraft will be ruined, the new graphics will "slow the game down", not balanced, and wanting blizzard to keep Starcraft 2 like Starcraft was but just "rebuffed".
First off the original Starcraft released in 1998 people. The age where 3D graphics hadnt been widely used or good(no software of hardware for it). This is 2007. Blizzard will be expecting people to have decent an enough PC to run SC2 in at least a decent resolution. People want SC2 to be exactly as it is right now with better graphics and thats just setting SC2 up for failure with the rest of the people who didnt like SC from the start(or wernt a big fan).
I expect the speed of gameplay to be a little slower than Starcraft but significantly faster than W3. They will make games last longer than 2 minutes, slow down unit building time somewhat but most definatly keep a high unit production count(150-200). Units wont die in 1 second but rather have some type of micro-management ability where it would increase skill variety and gameplay(as apposed to just no micro management early game for SC, save protoss).
As far as balance goes, Blizzard knows the task at hand and the hype they have to live up to in order to make Starcraft 2 the best RTS to date(which i believe it will end up being). Quick gameplay mixed with micro and macro management skills as well as new special units,perhaps new features(perhaps say if a unit gets "X" amount of kills hes promotedand earns an ability?)as well as greater variety in strategy(4 races instead of 3).
Starcraft 2 will be a game to look forward to and i will be at the front lines primed and ready!!
That post made me feel weird.
Well, NO, mister genius, micro isn't about having special abilities and micro-less zealot rushes ARE doomed. And FFS no unit promotions please. Kill meter is for style, and style alone.
I'm with Testie here and somewhat against ManaBlue:
Keep the pace of the game. Change pace (0.9x fastest speed) and SC is ruined. Seriously.
And, IMO, 3D rightfully done won't harm SC. It's possible to create great 3D environments that would feel exactly like SC (for example, it is 3D, but noone really forbids a camera lock), but would just look more refined. Unit sprites are close to perfect, but I've always wanted a vaster amount of map decoration options.
And then someone will reference that article, saying that IGN wrote an article about a Team Liquid translation on a FF article about Starcraft, and someone will quote that article, which will then be footnoted as "confirmed" information.
Unless its from Blizzard's mouth, dont get your hopes up.
Idle Worker notification (button pops up showing you have workers just sitting not doing anything, you can click on it and it will select and center the screen on one idle worker)
being able to select more than 12 units with the food cap being removed maybe this isnt that bad of an idea? cant be too many though, maybe like 16 or something?
On April 11 2007 22:13 Thunderl1ng wrote: Ok people listen up. I play both SC:BW and W3:TFT and both have different feels and gameplay as you all well know(as was intended by blizzard). They wanted W3 to have its own unique feel, seperate from Starcraft. I see people complaining about how Starcraft will be ruined, the new graphics will "slow the game down", not balanced, and wanting blizzard to keep Starcraft 2 like Starcraft was but just "rebuffed".
First off the original Starcraft released in 1998 people. The age where 3D graphics hadnt been widely used or good(no software of hardware for it). This is 2007. Blizzard will be expecting people to have decent an enough PC to run SC2 in at least a decent resolution. People want SC2 to be exactly as it is right now with better graphics and thats just setting SC2 up for failure with the rest of the people who didnt like SC from the start(or wernt a big fan).
I expect the speed of gameplay to be a little slower than Starcraft but significantly faster than W3. They will make games last longer than 2 minutes, slow down unit building time somewhat but most definatly keep a high unit production count(150-200). Units wont die in 1 second but rather have some type of micro-management ability where it would increase skill variety and gameplay(as apposed to just no micro management early game for SC, save protoss).
There's no reason whatsoever to slow down the gameplay.
And honestly, if you think there's no micromanagement early game you can't have played BW a lot.. Units dieing quickly = good, it makes things like marine micro way cooler.
Meh.
As far as balance goes, Blizzard knows the task at hand and the hype they have to live up to in order to make Starcraft 2 the best RTS to date(which i believe it will end up being). Quick gameplay mixed with micro and macro management skills as well as new special units,perhaps new features(perhaps say if a unit gets "X" amount of kills hes promotedand earns an ability?)as well as greater variety in strategy(4 races instead of 3).
Starcraft 2 will be a game to look forward to and i will be at the front lines primed and ready!!
I agree, and if they can get the promotion stuff to work well, it could be fun (just make sure it's nothing too much).
On April 12 2007 10:54 Raist wrote: what do you guys think about features such as:
Idle Worker notification (button pops up showing you have workers just sitting not doing anything, you can click on it and it will select and center the screen on one idle worker)
being able to select more than 12 units with the food cap being removed maybe this isnt that bad of an idea? cant be too many though, maybe like 16 or something?
I think removing the foodcap is a terrible, horrible, AWFUL idea and hope it doesn't survive the beta.
Selecting more than 12 units I guess would be fine if the foodcap was significantly higher yeah.
Idle worker notification = fine as long as I can turn it off, annoying clutter imo
On April 11 2007 22:50 x_woof_x wrote: whos Daemon Hatfield???, the writer of that article im sure someone knows... , confess!
im counting on blizzard to make a wonderful game. of course it wont be balanced, but hopefully they will know that we have great knowledge of the game and they will take our inputs seriously, and try to fix to make the most balanced game they can, like they did with original sc and sc broodwar.
i just hope tho, that by being a good sc BW player, one will also be good at sc2.... what if ur pro SC BW then some new schooler who hardly played BW smashed u at sc2???
all this skill and practice wasted,, for nothing.
I hope the mechanical skills can survive, but I really hope the knowledge wont.
What I mean is, I think it's good for the game to have to go through a process of discovery, one where smart but - perhaps - less technically skilled - players can make their impact.
it could have been a miscommunication in translation and what they mean is removal of 200 food cap and replaced with something else. also that seems like the sort of detail that could definitely be changed
I think that they might've meant removal of popcap limit (of 200), but you still need to make supply depots etc. It's just that you can do it for ever (if computer allows).
is it really that hard to make a lot of toggle on off or some sort of sliders (flow of time)? Players wll check all the options and decide what is good or bad. At least in very early versions.
im concerned with the maps .. unless they somehow allow players to vote for what maps they want to be put into the ladder system, or they just simply put good maps in.. it could be ugly
On April 12 2007 11:42 Raist wrote: it could have been a miscommunication in translation and what they mean is removal of 200 food cap and replaced with something else. also that seems like the sort of detail that could definitely be changed
That's what I assumed they meant, and I think it sucks really hard
Just asking for lag fests and I just think it will make come backs etc much rarer.
It doesnt matter though, theres always going to be people who will make pvpgen-esque 3rd party client softwares and stuff, the original starcraft will still be playable.
Shutting down the servers for SC seems like something that Blizzard would never do, especially because every single one of their games, old and new (excluding WoW) links to B.net. Just take Diablo as an example. It's as old as SC, yet they didn't touch the original games server accessibility in order to give D2 more success. It's just a bad idea to piss off those who want to play your other games to try and force them into another, and I don't think Blizzard is naive enough as a company to believe otherwise.
Just because WC3/WoW have been their focal point for so long doesn't mean they're abandoning SC or becoming less of a good company. They're still patching this old as hell game, aren't they?
All said, while I hope SC2 is coming, I'm holding out 'til official word comes to believe it. :p
I just hope my computer can handle SC2 when/if it comes out. But yea i would for it to come out but the features im worried about are removing the food cap and being able to select more than 12 units ;/
Those reports of Blizzard "killing off" sc are complete and total bullshit. Think of the number of updates BW has undergone to get it to the state it is at today both client and server side. You think they'd get that all right on the first release of SC2? hell no, its going to have tons of bugs and imbalances that will take years to work out.
It will be very interesting to see how the pro scene reacts though
If they were going to shutdown the servers to ensure the success (which they don't even have to worry about success, StarCraft is the biggest RTS of all time), then why didn't they shutdown Warcraft II when they released Warcraft III.
AFAIK Blizzard has never shut off any of their games from multiplayer, no matter how old. If something this radical happened, private servers for both sc and sc2 would just become much more widespread.
i doubt thjis is true.... blizzard is working on wow like full fledged... and the website has yet to accounce any notion of actually there existing a SC2
On April 12 2007 19:38 Monoxide wrote: i doubt thjis is true.... blizzard is working on wow like full fledged... and the website has yet to accounce any notion of actually there existing a SC2
So the whole blizzard team is working solely on WoW (which have been already released)? Doubtful.. REALLY doubtful.
guys listen to me it doesn't matter if it is 2007 , there will still be no 200 unit cap picture this : 8 man ffa 200 limit 256*256 all people close to 200 limit large scale battles all over the place with a 3D engine this will LAG LIKE ALL HELL especially on bnet
On April 15 2007 23:56 PobTheCad wrote: guys listen to me it doesn't matter if it is 2007 , there will still be no 200 unit cap picture this : 8 man ffa 200 limit 256*256 all people close to 200 limit large scale battles all over the place with a 3D engine this will LAG LIKE ALL HELL especially on bnet
That actually used to lag some computers even back when SC was released.. For instance, I played for a long while on a computer that couldn't handle 200 vs 200 battles PvZ without lagging ;p
If SC2 comes out I'm going to have to buy a new computer, the current one/only one I have is 7 years old in a couple of days. I don't think I can play a new '07 game with an old '00 comp, its a good comp I only use it for SC and porn so I don't want to get rid of it.
On April 16 2007 05:51 FrozenArbiter wrote: That actually used to lag some computers even back when SC was released.. For instance, I played for a long while on a computer that couldn't handle 200 vs 200 battles PvZ without lagging ;p
I remember it , as i was playing sc with a p120 back in 98' Remember though that there are still a number of people playing world of warcraft with a 56k modem , so it is likely there will be people playing sc2 with a 56k.It could get really bad. Can anyone tell me the highest unit cap for a recent 3d rts?
I know sequels always implement many new gameplay mechanics, but BW is practically a perfect game... I hope that any additions or changes that do occur (like the new supply system) will be for the better. One can only hope.....
On April 15 2007 18:04 SpiritAshura wrote: Sorry for bump but, was randomly looking through stuff and I came across this (maybe I just missed the post about it or something):
On April 17 2007 23:44 evanthebouncy~ wrote: haha I saw this post: 我说玻璃渣就是胆小 所谓的精品只不过是个借口 看看人家SE 任天堂 那个作品不都出了10多作 还不都是精品？？ 你玻璃渣呢？搞了个SC就不敢再往前迈了，一个SC2搞飞机到现在还不知道有没有影子！ 最可气的是什么？是 把开发了N年的 星际争霸 幽灵 无限期搁浅！！ 说是为了精品政策！ 那什么意思？说白了就是自己都觉得这个作品一塌糊涂，不敢在PS2等平台发售了！因为FF12等真正的精品会把它这个所谓的精品打的一败涂地！！！！！！！！ 玻璃渣 看你什么时候才能真正的勇敢起来？
NicE!
我说玻璃渣就是胆小 I say Blizzard(玻璃渣, broken glass pieces in chinese sound similar to Blizzard) doesnt have the courage.
所谓的精品只不过是个借口 The so-called classic gem is really blizzard's excuse
看看人家SE 任天堂 那个作品不都出了10多作 Look at Nintendo (SE here stands for SEGA?), all the titles/series have 10+ products.
还不都是精品？？ Aren't they all classics high-quality products?
你玻璃渣呢？搞了个SC就不敢再往前迈了，一个SC2搞飞机到现在还不知道有没有影子！ What about you blizzard? Finished SC and stopped going forward, one SC2 (搞飞机is a slang for masterbating, i guess the use of this here is to insult blizzard, saying all their staffs masterbate and waste time LoL) till now, we have not even seen its shadow!
最可气的是什么？是 把开发了N年的 星际争霸 幽灵 无限期搁浅！！ 说是为了精品政策！ 那什么意思？说白了就是自己都觉得这个作品一塌糊涂，不敢在PS2等平台发售了！因为FF12等真正的精品会把它这个所谓的精品打的一败涂地！！！！！！！！ What's the most angry part? It is the being-in-development-for-N-years Starcraft:Ghost get delayed indefinitely!! They say its for the keeping-its-own-classic-ness principle. What the heck does that mean? Frankly, it means they feel the product itself is a pile of mud/garbage, and do not dare to publish it on PS2! Because classic high-quality products such as FF12 will FUCKING OWN their so-called high-quality product.
玻璃渣 看你什么时候才能真正的勇敢起来？ Blizzard(broken glass pieces), we await to see when you will really become braver!
tried my best in translation, some words are hard to directly translate.
putting the validity of the points demonstrated by this chinese poster, its still pretty funny! I find the blizzard=玻璃渣=broken glass pieces the most hilarious.
For those confused. This was the first real set of claims for Starcraft 2's existence. Way back in 2007. Beta was a bit delayed...
fighterforum no longer exists. Afreeca bought them and they dropped off the map - they were the biggest SC esports korean news source for many years. Fomos "replaced" them.
On July 07 2010 18:29 Piski wrote: Nice to see that the sc2 rumors were going wild even in 2007 :D
SC2 was announced 2007 .....
On April 09 2007 15:32 ilovezil wrote:
Blizzard will be releasing starcraft2, [...] adding "kerrigan" race making total of 4. Each race will get around 2 new additional units, removable of unit limit (200/200)
HAHA xD (well.. yeah, we don't know what will happen in campaign yet...) Lol at unit limit removal.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/diablo2667/kerrigan.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4280/pic27dv3.jpg)
BW-TV 
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/34/Protoss_Vindicator_1.jpg/180px-Protoss_Vindicator_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0f/Terrangrizzly.jpg/180px-Terrangrizzly.jpg)
