Updated CFU from December 2 - Page 4

hiroshOne

Poland425 Posts

December 06 2016 08:04 GMT

#61

There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.

I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.

So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?

and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.

In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...

Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?

Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.

But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.

This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.

This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 08:06 GMT

#62

On December 06 2016 08:13 Solar424 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because parasitic bomb does nothing vs a Protoss that can split unless you get like 20 vipers. Parasitic Bomb deals 60 damage, but a Carrier has 400 health, which means it takes 7 Parasitic Bombs to kill one Carrier. So unless the Toss player is an idiot and clumps their army up and gets it all fungalled, Parasitic Bomb is useless vs Skytoss. This doesn't even account for the fact that Toss will likely have HT with their army for storm and feedback. So Zerg basically either has to make Corruptors and pray that Toss doesn't make Void Rays, make Hydras and pray Toss doesn't have enough Carriers, or all-in, none of which are fun. Blizzard once again proving they have no idea how to balance this game, or make it fun.

Show nested quote +

Well all-or-nothing is unfortunately what Blizzard considers to be good design. It's the philosophy behind the game's hard counter system and the builds players are forced into. Either a unit is going to be countered by another unit, or it will hard counter it. There is little middle ground.

But... blinding cloud can't hit air... so viper interaction with air is a the exact same if blinding cloud is changed..... now if a different change is used than mabey you have a point.

jimjimmie

13 Posts

December 06 2016 08:10 GMT

#63

nerf carrier too. skytoss is really strong against zerg

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 08:15 GMT

#64

On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.

I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.

So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?

and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.

In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...

Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?

Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.

But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.

This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.

This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.

I think your being a bit dishonest yes Zerg tier 3 got nerfed but to call baneling hp buff irelivant??? A core Zerg unit in zvt got an hp buff!!!, Imagine if bliz buffed maurders or stalkers! Further due to lib nerf mutas are back in the mu. yes ultras got nerfed but now Zerg can win like they did in hots, go mutas get a 4th get to the point t can't crack you than crush there production with 27+ mutas than kill t's last army. So z was heavily compensated for ultra nerf, to the point I think they are overall stronger vs bio than before I mean ultras are still a lot better than hots. As for mech well ... lol. Realy from a Terran perspective all we got was bio suport unit nerfs and bio counter unit buffs, + raven buff/ Thor buff. Because honestly mech and tanks still don't work, infact both are noticeably worse with removal of tankivacs. So you can call us cry babies.... but you seem to be the one who is whining the hardest. I wish my race would get big midgame buffs like Zerg gee whiz. Now that bliz is trying to dial back zergs strength you accuse everyone else of being whiners, I think a change is fair. Honestly a lot of these comments sound like they are from people who don't play the game or at least dont play in the masters + meta.

Muxtar

Ukraine64 Posts

December 06 2016 08:20 GMT

#65

Pretty much this. Zerg gets only nerfs, while boredom-fest which is mech receives only buffs. GJ Blizz. No wonder I no longer play SC2 because it has become unfair and boring.

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 08:24 GMT

#66

Sorry mods mis post ment to edit not quote myself...

hiroshOne

Poland425 Posts

December 06 2016 08:27 GMT

#67

On December 06 2016 17:15 washikie wrote:

Show nested quote +

Nobody wanted and asked Blizzard for baneling buff. It's some random change. Yes. Libs were nerfed and mutas came back but...guess what- they buffed Thors vs air XDDD. Still it's worth more to build Corruptors. As they deal with Liberators better and are more tanky vs Thors for example. Midgame Buffs? The one of 2 midgame buffs Zerg got in this patch was just reverted. And it was the better one. I wonder how would you feel if Blizzard reverted Tanks buff but without bringing back Tankivacs. So please, don't even try to understand how i feel. Blizzard always nerfs everything good that Zerg has because people like you- trying to make this game more compatibile with your own game style, not your gamestyle more compatibile with the game instead.

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 08:36 GMT

#68

On December 06 2016 17:27 hiroshOne wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 06 2016 17:15 washikie wrote:

It does not matter that you did not ask for bane buff you got it and it's prity strong, also thors are a lot worse for defending mutas than libs if you get 6+ libs mutas are awful so z would not build more than around 12-15. Even if thors do decent against mutas thors are slow and clunky so getteing thors does not shut down muta play. as for me I admit I like bio but I play what's good, I think it's a silly argument to say that it's wrong for people to ask for more than exactly one tech path and unit comp to play a stratagey game with. Part of the fun of stratagey games is getting to play around with builds/ unit composition, for the past year in tvz prity much t opens 2-1-1, 3 rax or less commonly hellion banshee and than goes bio + mine or bio + tank into libs based on zergs unit comp. at least zergs have got to play both roach ravager, ling bane ultra rush, or ling bane Mutaa into ultra. Why is it so nefarious to ask for variety of gameplay, I myself like bio so personally I don't care to much that mech does not work but it's silly that it does not. Also this is not about how you feal this is about if the game is balanced, personally I miss 3.7 but that ship has sailed. Further no rolling back hydra change is not the same as the situation you described hydras will be no worse than they were pre patch they also keep the speed buff, and might still get a different buff like +hp.

Muxtar

Ukraine64 Posts

December 06 2016 08:56 GMT

#69

Part of the fun of stratagey games is getting to play around with builds/ unit composition, for the past year in tvz prity much t opens 2-1-1, 3 rax or less commonly hellion banshee and than goes bio + mine or bio + tank into libs based on zergs unit comp. at least zergs have got to play both roach ravager, ling bane ultra rush, or ling bane Mutaa into ultra. Why is it so nefarious to ask for variety of gameplay, I myself like bio so personally I don't care to much that mech does not work but it's silly that it does not. Also this is not about how you feal this is about if the game is balanced. Further no rolling back hydra change is not the same as the situation you described hydras will be no worse than they were pre patch, and might still get a different buff like +hp.

Well, tell me when ling-bane-ultra rush (ultra RUSH? are you serious?) was viable strategy. Last I checked it was called macro, with plenty of time given to enemy to prepare counter-measures. Roach-ravager gets roflstomped after like 8 min, so it's like 16-marines drop opening or mass reapers one - it's not viable lategame macro strategy. Ling-bane-muta was left behind in HotS for reasons, and now with thors effectively replacing liberators as muta counter, it's not viable either. So I don't see plenty of strategies for zerg in ZvT match-up.

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 09:05 GMT

#70

On December 06 2016 17:56 Muxtar wrote:

Show nested quote +

Now that's a more reasonable statement I'm all for having Zerg have more viable ways to play as well I'd love it if lurkers could enter the matchup or ping infestor worked like it did in wol (well minus the op broodlord lare game) as for thors as I said yeah they are good vs mutas when they fight mutas thing is, when is a muta player going to fight 3+thors when they can just go around and do damage to production, exposed 4th bases, or pick of reinforcements thors are an increadably slow and clunky unit so the interaction between them and mutas is very different from 6 libs that move almost as fast totally shutting down harassment. Also ravager not a viable late game start, I've seen countless games at the pro level of European zergs using them to turtle to ultras.

SlammerSC2

77 Posts

December 06 2016 09:07 GMT

#71

On December 06 2016 05:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
A hydra nerf is very welcome.

If Carrier turtle was not a freewin for protoss before, it will surely be now. Blizzard should know that if they watched the last HSC. Anyway if they revert the range alone 3.8 will have been a nerf for Hydras. The 2 upgrades has to be combined again. Or maybe give them a significant HP buff so they can actually deal with Carriers with the lowered range.

Muxtar

Ukraine64 Posts

December 06 2016 09:22 GMT

#72

as for thors as I said yeah they are good vs mutas when they fight mutas thing is, when is a muta player going to fight 3+thors when they can just go around and do damage to production, exposed 4th bases, or pick of reinforcements thors are an increadably slow and clunky unit so the interaction between them and mutas is very different from 6 libs that move almost as fast totally shutting down harassment. Also ravager not a viable late game start, I've seen countless games at the pro level of European zergs using them to turtle to ultras.

I agree with you that thors are more clunky and easier to outrun, but to do so you need micro level like Life's or close enough. And terran needs much less micro to use thors, it's all about positioning and having built decent amount of turrets to defend production and mineral line on 4th etc. I also agree that ultra was kinda overbuffed prior to 3.8 and had to get some nerf, and its current state is ok (especially with infestors buff), but it is all about ZvBio playstyle, which was more or less balanced before. With buffing of mech it's like comeback to 2015, whe Life threw all he could muster at Innovation, and terran just turtled and won easily. And they consider even further viper nerf...

washikie

United States752 Posts

December 06 2016 09:42 GMT

#73

On December 06 2016 18:22 Muxtar wrote:

Show nested quote +

If Terran has multiple thors in his base either he is not pushing Zerg so Zerg can tech to t3 or he is so ahead he could also win but going Allin and not having multiple thors in his main. As for it taking life level micro to control mutas... no. Most mid masters Zerg can use mutas in the way I described and low level pros/ streamers certainly can. Personal anecdote is generally useless but just a few days ago I got crushed by livibe even though I was 20 supply and an upgrade up because she chose to base trade with mutas, livibee is good but I don't think she has "life level" micro yet she was able to send her mutas to my base when I moved out. I'm not saying mutas are broken, its kind of refreshing to see them back but to pretend like they did not get a lot better is phony. As for mech...mech still sucks it's probably worse now than the brand of mech ty and info were using before the patch. Yeah tanks are good but swarmhosts are better and early mutas also slow mechs development allot add in 7 range hydras+vipers well, I'd at least rather go bio evrey game despite the nerfs+buffs to banelings

ejozl

Denmark3368 Posts

December 06 2016 10:17 GMT

#74

Here's the deal, you want to reduce the amount of abilities for newer Protoss players so they can actually learn the game and not fumble over themselves. At the same time, you don't want to reduce the leverage a mechanical God Protoss can gain from mastering this micro&ability madness. You certainly don't want to make units less interesting.

The Tempest change would make the unit a lot less interesting and the Immortal change would reduce the leverage of the mechanical God Protoss.

So if anything I'm more for going in the opposite direction, nerf the Tempests normal attack, be it through range or + Massive damage and make the ability more core, either by implementing it into it's attack somehow, or by reducing it's cast time so that it can even work on faster unit compositions and that way buff the spells versatility.

On the Immortal I think the Barrier should be able to absorb unlimited amounts of damage, but at the cost of the Immortals range. I think it doesn't fit the unit's identity too well that it's actually a long ranged unit. I'm thinking something severe like a range of 3-4, this way the Immortal walks ahead of your army along with your Archons, they do their tanking and it's more of a frontline shotgunner. Prism play where you drop these on top of Siege Tanks would be super strong and exciting. Furthermore it promotes micro from the opposing player, if you just sit there and shoot the Immortal with Marines or Hydralisks you can lose the battle straight up!
In a way this is similar to the Hydralisk range buff, since in comparison to the Immortal, Hydralisks will have a lot longer range.

Now for the Hydralisk I think it would be great if the unit started off at 6 range, this is to combat the too fast turtle to Carrier styles. This way the Protoss needs to get out on the map in some sort of way, before resorting to his Carrier tactics. If the Hydralisk still needs help I would suggest a Tissue Regeneration(on Creep) upgrade, which promotes some level of Micro reward for Zergs who excel in this area of expertise. I think it's pretty clear that Zerg is the race that by far gets the short end of the stick, when it comes to using your units well. Something like a Tissure Regeneration(on Creep,) would greatly benefit Zergs who takes their time to pull back individual weakened Hydralisks, they can then heal up, get ready and be utilized again.
Another way you could buff the Hydralisk is to make a Hunter Killer upgrade, similar to Troll Berserkers in WC3, where you upgrade it and it makes all your Hydralisks look badass and it could give many sorts of benefits, though I'm not certain exactly what this could be. Could be a Hive +10 HP buff or the Campaign +50% attack speed +50% vulnerability.
It really depends on what Blizzard wants to do with the Hydralisk, this is something that could make Hydralisks a core unit, but if they just want to have Hydralisks appear in the TvZ matchup, then I think a better way might be to change the Lurker instead. Lurkers are not gonna be used vs Marines as long as it takes 3 shots to kill a Marine. It's attack would need to be changed from 20+10(vs armoured) -> 30 damage overall, but at the cost of the speed Spikes travel. This would also promote amazing micro, where it's actually worth it to Blink a Stalker forward and have it run to the side, only to catch all the Lurker fire and that way you can get a favourable engagement. On the flip side the Zerg player can counter this by using Hold Fire and manually targeting the larger bulk of the army. Anyways I'm gonna stop here

NutriaKaiN

88 Posts

December 06 2016 11:11 GMT

#75

On December 06 2016 06:21 Gullis wrote:
ffs no fucking tempest buff please...

always this guys....

NutriaKaiN

88 Posts

December 06 2016 11:12 GMT

#76

Always im asking me why i reading this comments, always nonsense. Gold players cry about balance and protoss. The crazy thing is, blizzard is balancing sc2 in dependency with the cry amount over protoss.

aQuaSC

717 Posts

December 06 2016 11:19 GMT

#77

It's always surprising to me how people leave the game because of the amount of nerfs/buffs happening in patches, well

Phaenoman

568 Posts

December 06 2016 11:32 GMT

#78

This wall of text is just another stubborn whine.

Baneling buff? Well noone asked for the Raven buff either and neither of the races like it. It's just gonna be massing Ravens.
You know why they hugely buffed SH. Don't pretend to be angry about the obvious cost nerf. It's to make ppl use and explore the unit, but you should know that.
Play vs burrowed Infestors to be able to judge its current state.
Ultras had 1 year of domination. They had to be tuned down. What have you been doing the whole past year?
Not sure about BLs.
Hydra will get a compensation. Why can't you just read the Update? And you don't know what will happend to the upgrades. You just like to whine, hm?
When did Zergs anti air got nerfed?

Take your own advice and stop whining before seeing the outcome of the next steps. You are not the only one that's playing the game.

Musicus

Germany23576 Posts

December 06 2016 11:58 GMT

#79

Nice update, would like to see the hp buff removed from banes (I want bio to be as viable as ever) and moved to the speed upgrade for hydras instead. Also remove the range upgrade and give hydras 6 range by default or combine the upgrades again. Hydras could be a good unit then I think.

Thank god they got rid of that stupid Tempest ability, now also please consider changing the carriers as Snute suggested.

Thanks for adapting so fast Blizzard!

saltis

159 Posts

December 06 2016 12:51 GMT

#80

[QUOTE]On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:

So you suggest that 100 mana abduct ability should be used only on stalkers and zealots ? In that case it should cost 50, not 100.

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