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- Carrier --> Interceptor way to cheap, at least double the cost, Zerg has no chance against Carrier on 3 Bases
- 3 rax reaper needsnerf
- Hydra range too strong, but Idea of making it a core unit is great, maybe HP Buff? Or Increase costs, so Hydra timings hit later?
- Pls no Tempest Buff, simply not needed, especially with Carriers so strong
- Maybe Buff Ghost against Viper, feels to me Ghost are highly underused --> Showtime was at todays Pig Daily and said, he has no Problems with Viper, because he uses High Templar, why not make Ghost better to do the same for Terran. I think its reasonable for Terran to have Ghost in their Late game composition. Then its a matter of Control if Viper kills you
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So protoss is getting less active abilities, that is a good thing.
However, I wonder if tempests will still prove to be a problem. With their stun ability, they were usually used to engage into a mech army. Generally, a battle would be tempest stun ->zealots charge -> immortals follow + turn on ability -> rest of army engage.
With both abilities removed, I feel like the battle will move in this fashion: tempests take potshots on tanks/turrets -> weaken fortification -> when viable, a+move everything else.
I'm not sure, but we are moving from a situation that requires a lot of micro, to one that needs very little.
I don't like it.
Regarding the viper's blinding cloud, a reduction in time would be interesting to test first. It would give tanks a bit more survival, but blinding cloud would still remain powerful. This would make zergs engagements a little more difficult, and I predict they might rely on abducts more until they are confident in engaging.
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Wow now shield on the immortal.. Thats all for now? Oh my Lord.. It wont help vs hidras.. Collossus useless again, i mean ffs really.. At least change the timewarp so we can do something..
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On December 07 2016 05:53 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:23 Malgo wrote:On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT I would die of embarrassment if dkim read this crap. Every time Zerg gets something good? You mean like 9 months of free wins with broodlord infestor? Geez you people are a joke. At least other people are proposing counter changes on all sides, you add nothing to this discussion. For my POV, as a T, a reduced range for units in BC would be better. Hydras swapped with roaches and stats changed as needed. Do something about 3 rax reaper too.
If i hear one more time about Broodlord/Infestor i will vomit. It was 5 freaking years agoo almost. Get over it.
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On December 07 2016 07:17 AlexGPunkt wrote:
- Carrier --> Interceptor way to cheap, at least double the cost, Zerg has no chance against Carrier on 3 Bases
- 3 rax reaper needsnerf
- Hydra range too strong, but Idea of making it a core unit is great, maybe HP Buff? Or Increase costs, so Hydra timings hit later?
- Pls no Tempest Buff, simply not needed, especially with Carriers so strong
- Maybe Buff Ghost against Viper, feels to me Ghost are highly underused --> Showtime was at todays Pig Daily and said, he has no Problems with Viper, because he uses High Templar, why not make Ghost better to do the same for Terran. I think its reasonable for Terran to have Ghost in their Late game composition. Then its a matter of Control if Viper kills you
Good points, only 2 things to add:
1 - Mechers complain about mass hydra, not a specific timing, so the problem, according to them, is the range.
2 - Buffing ghosts would just make turtling more viable and i don't think this is what people want, not even mechers since it's a bio unit.
The only way i see a solution is an alternative to siege tanks, because they will never have the same interaction as Broodwar, the game is completely different. Siege tanks will always lead to mass defense and i would like to not have that.
Also, remove or repurpose the Swarm Host.
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SH was already repurposed from siege to harass unit.
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On December 07 2016 08:11 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 05:53 DeadByDawn wrote:On December 07 2016 03:23 Malgo wrote:On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT I would die of embarrassment if dkim read this crap. Every time Zerg gets something good? You mean like 9 months of free wins with broodlord infestor? Geez you people are a joke. At least other people are proposing counter changes on all sides, you add nothing to this discussion. For my POV, as a T, a reduced range for units in BC would be better. Hydras swapped with roaches and stats changed as needed. Do something about 3 rax reaper too. If i hear one more time about Broodlord/Infestor i will vomit. It was 5 freaking years agoo almost. Get over it.
But it does invalidate your point, completely and utterly.
Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground
The only complaint that I have with Blizzard's balancing is it can sometimes seem a little random. I do not believe that their balancing intentionally favors one race over another. The Blizz devs play all races.
If there are imbalances then they will attempt to fix them. Will they make the best attempt, probably not, but this absurd level of whine, based on almost no facts at all, will not get Blizzard to consider your point of view.
And still SC2 is the best RTS available today, until BW HD remaster that is. Then Blizzard will have the 2 best RTSs on the market. Seems no one else can make RTS work at the moment, so well done Blizzard.
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TERRAN
Reaper: Grenades no longer deal damage
Cyclone: starts with 5 range (upgrade give +2 range)
Medivac: Slower acceleration movement speed
ZERG
Hydra: starts with 5 range (upgrade now give +1)
Lurker: 8 Range
PROTOSS
Carrier: Interceptors Range lowered to 10 (instead of 14 after launching)
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I like the idea of a health buff for hydras. Would be interesting to test.
I think binding cloud is fine and in fact I would like it to be stronger. Abduct is a really silly ability and I don't think it would be missed by many people. I would love to see abduct removed and he vipers other spells become even more powerful.
The carrier is a little too strong right now when maxed. I'd like to see interceptors cost a little more again and think of another way to buff them. Oracle shield battery is cool idea. What if the oracle could 'seige' into a shield battery?
Otherwise thank you for staying in touch 
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give toss something to use vs libs midgame and something to help with basetrades not happening evry other game pvz and pvt
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I'm kind of surprised that few people are getting annoyed at the BC. The dev team effectively turned it into an harass unit (oh surprise), and probably the most insufferable one in the game.
"move across the map, deal damage, and as soon as you see the ennemy army, yamato to pick off expansive unit, and TP back home. Repair, and repeat a minute later"
And meanwhile the BC is still terrible at frontal engagement because it gets shredded so hard by stalkers, hydras, vikings, void rays, corruptors, vipers, tempests.
I don't want the BC to become the terran "15 range tempest + revelation". Free and safe harass damage with poor frontal fighting value is probably the most terrible way to design a 400/300 capital shit.
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On December 07 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that few people are getting annoyed at the BC. The dev team effectively turned it into an harass unit (oh surprise), and probably the most insufferable one in the game.
"move across the map, deal damage, and as soon as you see the ennemy army, yamato to pick off expansive unit, and TP back home. Repair, and repeat a minute later"
And meanwhile the BC is still terrible at frontal engagement because it gets shredded so hard by stalkers, hydras, vikings, void rays, corruptors, vipers, tempests.
I don't want the BC to become the terran "15 range tempest + revelation". Free and safe harass damage with poor frontal fighting value is probably the most terrible way to design a 400/300 capital shit.
I also don't like this version of BC very much. I rather have the BW's version, with a high burst dmg. But you have to understand that with Blizzard is take what you can get. If we actually complain about BC, they will just nerf it to the ground, and that's it, it's gonna be beyond terrible again. Then, maybe in a couple years, they will look into it again. Meanwhile, you get a unit that is terrible. In an ideal world? Sure, I would complain about BC's current version... But this is Blizzard we are talking about. They iterate so slowly and so inconsistently that after they nerf a unit, anything can happen.
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Holy shit they actually realized the problem with the new hydra is the 7 range and buffing Collossus is not the right thing to do, instead they are thinking about going back to the old range and give an HP buff instead. I'm actually baffled they got this right tbh.
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range).
On Blinding Cloud: I like the idea of this ability lowering the range by 5-6 to a minimum of 1, instead of lowering the duration.
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Wouldn't putting a limit to the reaper granates solve the reaper problem?
Like each reaper just has 2 granades. I think the unlimited amount of granates was the problem in many games vs z i saw.
But if you nerf the damage or remove it, again the reaper would also suck more than it does now, in general and it would even be harder to get a probe or drone if the opponent does not micro correctly..
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On December 07 2016 22:23 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
Wouldn't putting a limit to the reaper granates solve the reaper problem?
Like each reaper just has 2 granades. I think the unlimited amount of granates was the problem in many games vs z i saw.
But if you nerf the damage or remove it, again the reaper would also suck more than it does now, in general and it would even be harder to get a probe or drone if the opponent does not micro correctly..
Remove knock-back effect and it would be probably enough.
If not - proceed with what You've suggested, limit amount of grandes the reaper has to 2-5 pieces.
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On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range).
Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty
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On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty
Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff.
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On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff.
I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol
But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure
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On December 08 2016 00:06 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff. I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure
On retrospective, I think they added it to compensate for the fact that widow mines wrecked mutas.
Even if I also love muta/ling/bling, I still think the free buffs for flying units (mutas and specially medivacs) created more problems than they solved and are basically the reason for MSC existing.
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On December 08 2016 00:26 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 00:06 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff. I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure On retrospective, I think they added it to compensate for the fact that widow mines wrecked mutas. Even if I also love muta/ling/bling, I still think the free buffs for flying units (mutas and specially medivacs) created more problems than they solved and are basically the reason for MSC existing.
Yeah afaik the changes order was:
1. WM introduction - which can shoot air and therefore bio mine was dealing too much damage to mutmuts. Ling/bane/muta was perfectly fine in wol without regen.
2. Buff to health regeneration for mutmuts
3. Buff to base weapon range of phoenix (not upgrade). In wol it was 4 in hots was buffed to 5
the other buffs to flying units were mostly to speed and a lot of air units did receive them sooner or later
Medivacs, muta, phoenix, banshee, overlord, oracle etc
And I agree that this buffs spiraled out of control.
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EPT
