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First, we'd like to thank everyone for the great discussions over the weekend. After seeing your feedback, we reconsidered some of our changes as there were many great points which you all presented.
Hydralisk (and Colossus)
We agree that upgrading the Colossi might not be the best idea, since the issue we're trying to solve is specifically with Hydralisk strength. Therefore, we agree with potentially reverting the Hydralisk range back to 6, and exploring a different option such as increasing the health of Hydralisks or decreasing their cost. So the direction here would be to first revert the range change, see how Hydralisks function, then discuss a buff where needed.
Quantity of Protoss Abilities
We also agree with the feedback regarding the number of abilities on the Protoss side, and we'd like to take steps improve it. The goal here isn't to solve everything at once, but to go in steps.
We're thinking of two changes for this first step.
First, we could remove the Tempest's ability since it's not working out well. To compensate, we'd increase the AG range to 10 and also increase the AG damage so that the interaction with Tempests trying to kill ground units vs. ground units getting shots off on the Tempest is more interesting than it was in HotS.
Second, we'd target a small change with the Immortal. We believe an active ability is definitely not needed on the Immortal. The change would remove the manual-cast from Barrier, turning it into a passive ability. This would make it so that the micro is focused more on positioning your units so the shield soaks up as much as possible and vulnerable immortals are rescued. We can reduce the cooldown of this ability to compensate and so that Protoss players can play more strategically with the Immortal.
Mech and Blinding Cloud
We'd also like to first start with a reduction in Blinding Cloud duration to help out the Mech case in TvZ. We have gotten some feedback in this area and agree that because mobile units are mostly able to move out of Blinding Clouds asap anyways, this sort of a change will mostly only affect immobile units such as the Siege Tank.
Patching Updates
So what does this mean for this week's balance patch? We definitely can't release the patch tomorrow like we've planned, because we still want to take the time to double check these new changes with all of you, and also to test these changes further internally. We'll focus heavily on our end to gather feedback and to playtest today and tomorrow, and aim to patch later this week if both sides go smoothly.
Let's get discussions going fast on these few topics today! Thank you!
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A hydra nerf is very welcome.
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wow cool stuff You are going in right direction to make mech viable 
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Thank god, no colossus buff. I wonder what the follow up regarding protoss changes will be?
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Sounds like good changes, though the speed buff still impacts speed banshees alot, maybe the upgrade could be 100/100? 200/200 is very steep for something that does very little
also how are you meant to deal with underground fungals, maybe only neural parasyte and infested terran for underground cast?
fungal feels really powerful and most of the time you are not able to react, constantly keeping infinite scans on zerg is not feasible for terran
bane buff i think is fine, just have to add more mines
Ravager i think is a bit strong maybe move to lair tech? proxy hatch then roach ravager seems extremely hard to hold?
In terms of the viper i think maybe just remove the blinding cloud? since it really only affects tanks and static defenses and give it another ability, the ability that you were going to give the tempest freezes units in the aoe?
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Overall the best CFU since february 18th.
- Hydra is the right call. 7 range is just too strong of a buff. Maybe giving them a +10 HP buff with the speed upgrade would be nice.
- Protoss abilities : YES. Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless). Yes for immortal (position, yay). However kinda sad they talk about that without talking about the overcharge, the mother of all badly designed abilities still in the game.
- On a grimmer note, blinding cloud isn't what's causing problems in MechvZ. It's the abduct. The blinding cloud is fine. Just make the abduct unable to target groud massive, which would allow for thors to cover other units by shooing away vipers.
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Would be good if you aimed for a tempest vs cyclone/thor interaction here and not purely tempest vs air units because air vs air isnt really fun.
Zerg works different is a good thing, not sure what to interact for them but would be horrendously boring if they are forced to mass air just because of it.
Cant speak much of the hydra, but would be great if it stays strong(i have no idea of the balance of it atm).
Off topic but if the new ground unit for protoss with its shade got redesigned here, couple of suggestions:
1. Make the shade last 3sec, with a 3sec cooldown, with a nerfed movementspeed. To encourage way more micro with its shade ability(soudns fun in my eyes).
To make them differnet in micro while also try and make them have way better interaction with all sorts of ground units.
There are more suggestions taht could be made here but hopefully this brings some enlightment to it.
If you overtime(within 6months perhaps) would try and move away from viper/raven or just make them purely support units somehow.
And focus more on interactions of other things which would be really fun(would make me play the game again, iam not playing atm)
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I think that although vipers are a very strong mech counter they are not the core problem, I would be much more ok with vipers if swarmhosts were not such a brutal counter to tanks, until swarmhost strength is addressed mech players cannot dream of pushing into a Zerg player. Mech will remain a turtle style or it won't be viable at higher levels of play. I'm not sure how you fix swarmhosts without making them useless though. The unit either seems like it's locusts are cost effective enough that they brutally punish any immobile Terran army, or they arnt cost effective so they are complete trash. Mabey making them like carriers would work were locusts cost small amounts of money, so that swarm hosts are more of a commitment and they cut into a Zerg players bank.
I'm also not sure how I deal about cyclone range. On one hand it's hard to describe early game tvp as fair when p has both so many gimickey allins and the ability to very greedly tech and expand behind photon overcharge. On the other Terran units just feal realy strong in the mu, especially with shade/tempest nerfs so giving Terran an equal footing with Protoss posses it's own set of problems, pre patch realize cyclone opens allowed Terran to take map control early and hold on to it, in not sure that's fair. I don't want the collosi brought back to its former power though I'm prity sure this would tip the scale to far since right now the match is balanced around the fact that libs are such a good unit they bring Terran back from the sacrifices they have to make early on to stay safe. If you give p a stronger midgame the match will realy start swinging ps way.
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Add/exchange one ability for shield restore in Oracle. Non-combat ability could be fine, yesterday I saw in the editor that they were trying to implement this for Heart of the Swarm, they left some data:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jFi6Tw9.jpg)
Personally I'd really like to see this tested. On my personal wishlist there is also ability to attach Observers to capital ships, adding small aoe damage to Photon Cannons or testing of the movable Phase Cannons, but these are just dreams so feel free to ignore those 
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On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
The blinding cloud is fine. Just make the abduct unable to target groud massive, which would allow for thors to cover other units by shooing away vipers.
It would also change a lot for Colossi, no more suicide diving for them
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ffs no fucking tempest buff please...
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But are they reverting previous hydra upgrade?
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On December 06 2016 06:12 aQuaSC wrote:Add/exchange one ability for shield restore in Oracle. Non-combat ability could be fine, yesterday I saw in the editor that they were trying to implement this for Heart of the Swarm, they left some data: Personally I'd really like to see this tested. On my personal wishlist there is also ability to attach Observers to capital ships, adding small aoe damage to Photon Cannons or testing of the movable Phase Cannons, but these are just dreams so feel free to ignore those
What if instead of Photon Overcharge being a pure damage spell, it instead gave units around the affected Pylon shield regen or some other buff?
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On December 06 2016 06:52 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 06:12 aQuaSC wrote:Add/exchange one ability for shield restore in Oracle. Non-combat ability could be fine, yesterday I saw in the editor that they were trying to implement this for Heart of the Swarm, they left some data: Personally I'd really like to see this tested. On my personal wishlist there is also ability to attach Observers to capital ships, adding small aoe damage to Photon Cannons or testing of the movable Phase Cannons, but these are just dreams so feel free to ignore those What if instead of Photon Overcharge being a pure damage spell, it instead gave units around the affected Pylon shield regen or some other buff?
To be honest I'd love to play around with any hp restoration ability for Protoss, whatever the form could be.
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On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless)
10 range with stronger anti-ground damage makes it a unit that trades? Are brood lords units that trade? Or are they units that either do a ton of damage uncontested or get stomped by lower tech units because they lacked support?
No mention of infinite range seeker missiles and ridiculous auto-turrets yet, interesting.
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no word on ravens? mech play is turning into massing ravens again, nobody wants that.
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Solution: Go back to patch 3.7
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But mass carrier style is already unbeatable after 5 carriers, so now what?
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On December 06 2016 07:00 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless) 10 range with stronger anti-ground damage makes it a unit that trades? Are brood lords units that trade? Or are they units that either do a ton of damage uncontested or get stomped by lower tech units because they lacked support?
Better than 8 range with a dumb and either shitty either extremely abusive ability though
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On December 06 2016 07:00 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless) 10 range with stronger anti-ground damage makes it a unit that trades? Are brood lords units that trade? Or are they units that either do a ton of damage uncontested or get stomped by lower tech units because they lacked support? No mention of infinite range seeker missiles and ridiculous auto-turrets yet, interesting.
Seeker missile should be designed so you always hit something, this "running away" interaction as counterplay is dumb to begin with. Auto turrets are simply boring and should be removed for something else
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I don't mind these changes, but blizzard needs to keep in mind hydras are even with carriers now. Any nerf, if not compensated, will just ruin ZvP.
Also, remove swarm hosts and reaper grenades from the game.
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A hydra (and possible viper) nerf combined with a tempest buff.... I can't imagine that will make later game skytoss any less impossible to deal with
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On December 06 2016 07:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
A hydra (and possible viper) nerf combined with a tempest buff.... I can't imagine that will make later game skytoss any less impossible to deal with
The viper nerf is in blinding cloud duration. How is that relevant in fighting skytoss?
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Make vipers a ground unit, that alone adds a myriad of counter play options instead of nerfing their abilities.
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Not understanding the immortal change, the immortal barrier activated automatically anyways, so why remove the option to do it manually?
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Hi guys,
I thhink the hydra nerf is Ok because a lot off whining about hydra 2 strong.
But there is a big problem right now wiith the carrier. You can see iit inn games off neeb and a lot on
the ladder ( highh master). traiding against carriers is imposibel. Blizz pls give zerg an option 2 deal with them or increase the cost off innterceptor again or maybe up the build tiime off interceptor.
If Protos has like 4-6 Carriers and healthi 3 base eco the game iis over and hittiing a timing befor is nearly imposible( toss deff 2 strong).
So pls if you nerf hydra takke a closer look at carier ;
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On December 06 2016 07:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 07:00 Elentos wrote:On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless) 10 range with stronger anti-ground damage makes it a unit that trades? Are brood lords units that trade? Or are they units that either do a ton of damage uncontested or get stomped by lower tech units because they lacked support? No mention of infinite range seeker missiles and ridiculous auto-turrets yet, interesting. Seeker missile should be designed so you always hit something, this "running away" interaction as counterplay is dumb to begin with. Auto turrets are simply boring and should be removed for something else
Auto turrets are mostly OK-ish, you can actually do interesting stuff like harassing or defending with a few well placed ATs and good raven control, I wouldn't be against nerfing them tho (like increasing energy cost from 50 to 75).
Now PDD that is one spell thats boring and makes no sense, PDD should be removed for sure.
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From a Zerg's standpoint, why does blinding cloud have to be such a all or nothing ability? What if it was reworked to maintain it as it is but instead of units have 0 range within, just reduce range by 50-60%. Personally I just don't like the whole concept of abilities being all or nothing.
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If they absolutely have to nerf hydra range i think it'd be better to reduce costs instead of increasing health.
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On December 06 2016 07:27 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 07:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
A hydra (and possible viper) nerf combined with a tempest buff.... I can't imagine that will make later game skytoss any less impossible to deal with The viper nerf is in blinding cloud duration. How is that relevant in fighting skytoss?
Because parasitic bomb does nothing vs a Protoss that can split unless you get like 20 vipers. Parasitic Bomb deals 60 damage, but a Carrier has 400 health, which means it takes 7 Parasitic Bombs to kill one Carrier. So unless the Toss player is an idiot and clumps their army up and gets it all fungalled, Parasitic Bomb is useless vs Skytoss. This doesn't even account for the fact that Toss will likely have HT with their army for storm and feedback. So Zerg basically either has to make Corruptors and pray that Toss doesn't make Void Rays, make Hydras and pray Toss doesn't have enough Carriers, or all-in, none of which are fun. Blizzard once again proving they have no idea how to balance this game, or make it fun.
On December 06 2016 07:56 Sacrilege wrote:
From a Zerg's standpoint, why does blinding cloud have to be such a all or nothing ability? What if it was reworked to maintain it as it is but instead of units have 0 range within, just reduce range by 50-60%. Personally I just don't like the whole concept of abilities being all or nothing.
Well all-or-nothing is unfortunately what Blizzard considers to be good design. It's the philosophy behind the game's hard counter system and the builds players are forced into. Either a unit is going to be countered by another unit, or it will hard counter it. There is little middle ground.
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On December 06 2016 07:48 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 07:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On December 06 2016 07:00 Elentos wrote:On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
Yes for tempest (finally a unit that TRADES instead of either killing for free, either being useless) 10 range with stronger anti-ground damage makes it a unit that trades? Are brood lords units that trade? Or are they units that either do a ton of damage uncontested or get stomped by lower tech units because they lacked support? No mention of infinite range seeker missiles and ridiculous auto-turrets yet, interesting. Seeker missile should be designed so you always hit something, this "running away" interaction as counterplay is dumb to begin with. Auto turrets are simply boring and should be removed for something else Auto turrets are mostly OK-ish, you can actually do interesting stuff like harassing or defending with a few well placed ATs and good raven control, I wouldn't be against nerfing them tho (like increasing energy cost from 50 to 75). Now PDD that is one spell thats boring and makes no sense, PDD should be removed for sure.
PDD isn't that exciting either, sure. At least it has a clear purpose while auto turrets seem to be on the raven because they couldn't come up with something else?
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people are happy with the changes it looks like
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If they're really going to nerf the range upgrade after just putting it in the game...then...
+ Show Spoiler +
I really, really hate that they made a change like this only to revert it immediately because of bitching. I understand that Protoss are struggling with the new hydralisk, and I know that telling them to just "deal with it" is definitely not a solid compromise for all races.
I hate this rhetoric because it means that the changes were not thought through to begin with. This is the first change to the hydralisk in 6 YEARS that actually make it a solid choice in any matchup outside of ZvP. And even then the hydralisk has had a history of getting phased out of matchups completely as more viable compositions are discovered. It's a crap unit.
I am having a ton of fun actually playing with hydra ling lurk compositions, and now all of that is going to be taken away?! Why not put more effort into making a stable, more lasting change?
If you're going to take away the range upgrade after just putting it into the game, then do the thing you should have done YEARS ago and give the hydralisk 15+ more HP. Let it survive one liberator shot, PERIOD. Make the hydralisk viable in ZvT as a general purpose DPS unit. Please just do it.
I would like it if they just give hydras enough HP so that they do not get 1 shot by liberators (preferably until +2 air weapons or something like that). I think that per cost it is ridiculous that liberators can one shot hydralisks (even more so when they get the range upgrade). Having to build a specialist spellcaster like the viper or dedicate supply to air units just to take out 1-2 liberators is pretty crazy and it would go a long way to allowing hydra ling lurk to be viable in all 3 MUs.
>> There has to be a give and a get.
You can't revert the range upgrade and go from there. If you revert the range upgrade then the hydras are going to go back to being a completely unused unit. We're just going to see ravager ling all day in ZvP again. Without the extra range on the hydra ravager ling becomes superior to hydra ling in every way.
So if you remove the extra range, you need to give the hydralisk an HP buff. How much? Then it becomes matchup specific.
In ZvP, I think just a little bit more to cushion against all the new sources of damage that Protoss have against light units (especially adepts, actually come to think about it everything that Protoss has decimate hydralisks). So the HP buff has to be pretty substantial (at least + 10) or else you make no difference. And again if there's no substantial difference then we're just going to see ravager ling every game. It becomes superior to hydra ling in every way.
In ZvT, I think the number is just enough to survive 2 shots from a liberator until, say, +2 weapons. If you don't do this then you severely limit the viability of hydralisks in ZvT, essentially tying them to viper usage in the mid/late game. Which I think is silly. We already see too much viper usage. If I want to Sauron-Zerg it I am punished a ludicrous amount for not having vipers against any more than 3-4 liberators.
As it is right now, even with 7 range hydralisks are still not viable in ZvT once more than 3-4 liberators hit the field without viper support. This is pretty crippling.
And finally, if you're going to remove the range upgrade, then merge the two upgrades into 1 again. The extra HP should not be an upgrade. It should be built into the unit.
As it is right now it takes a crazy amount of time for both upgrades to kick in (even longer if you go lurker den first) and everyone just goes range anyway. So take away the extra range, merge the upgrades into one, and give a substantial bonus to starting HP so that we don't have the same, completely unviable hydras we've had for the past 6 years.
Another idea would be to make the liberator do a lower base damage, then extra bonus damage against armored, along with removing the light armor tag from the hydra (or giving it extra HP).
Just something...anything...
Or honestly? Just buff the collossus. I think the other races can deal with it. That way we don't have to play with an iteration of a unit that's going to quickly slip out of our grasp in a few months...
Oh. And take a good hard look at carriers. Because in the months leading up to yet another change (sigh) all you're going to see in PvZ are carriers. Good skill toi have...
>> Ok, how about this. Increase hydra hp by 10-15. Reduce liberator damage by 5-10. Fiddle with the numbers. Merge the upgrades. We've solved the problem.
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Why oh why would you not change the colossus to an anti-light unit? You can always compensate by slightly reducing base damage, and maybe even a small range nerf, but the problem with the colossus was that it was too good all-round. Giving it substantial +light damage fixes this problem, and gives protoss an effective counter to the mass ling/bane styles (the fact that you need T3 units to reliably beat a T1 comp is annoying enough, but I digress) other than hoping that the main engagement occurs when the toss has a lot more zealots/adepts than the zerg has banelings.
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Hydraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas!!!!! so many Hydraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas!
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The Hydra change is probably a good call. I'd love to see them cheaper (and perhaps sliiightly tone down their dps) rather than having the range of a defensive structure.
I hate the Tempest and Blinding Cloud changes.
The Tempest needs to avoid being designed to be good at picking off both air and ground units at great range, so that it isn't so disgusting and unfun in the late-late game. Just ground units? Sure. Just air units? That's fine. But it needs to not be able to pick off all units in the game at leisure
To suggest something a little crazy, replace Tempests' AtG attack entirely with a special effect. Let's have it apply an effect that prevents that specific unit from attacking for 5.72 seconds (exactly double its cooldown), so that singular siege units can be neutralized, yet clumps of anti-air can get through just fine. You could couple this with a cost decrease and production time shortening, in order to make them more accessible to produce in order to push away Liberators, and just generally to make them more available as siege-breaking units. Presumably, units with frenzy would be immune to this spell, but that's not really the main point of this post.
Blinding cloud's main issues are not fixed by decreasing the duration. Lowering the severity of the range debuff or lowering the damage dealt would be much wiser ideas. Some people have posted that it would make a lot of sense to halve the range. While I like lowering the damage more, any of these alternative solutions seem preferable to a flat duration nerf.
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So is it just me who taps out after failed to break protoss in his little turtle shell before carriers? Zergs anti air is worse than it was in HotS now -_-
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On December 06 2016 09:15 feanaro wrote:
Why oh why would you not change the colossus to an anti-light unit? You can always compensate by slightly reducing base damage, and maybe even a small range nerf, but the problem with the colossus was that it was too good all-round. Giving it substantial +light damage fixes this problem, and gives protoss an effective counter to the mass ling/bane styles (the fact that you need T3 units to reliably beat a T1 comp is annoying enough, but I digress) other than hoping that the main engagement occurs when the toss has a lot more zealots/adepts than the zerg has banelings.
Because this unit was one of the originator of turtlish deathball gameplay which noone likes to watch, play against or even play?
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I have seen a few interesting games with fast BC into mech in TvZ
Would be interesting to see if hydra nerf makes this build more popular
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I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait!
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so the Hydralisk nerf and Blinding Cloud nerf really help out immobile units like the Thor and Tank i wish the combo of abilities the Viper has including Consume and Abduct were changed... but the direction DK/Blizz went in is ok.
i hope these changes go up soon so i can play with them.
On December 06 2016 05:57 washikie wrote:
I'm not sure how you fix swarmhosts without making them useless though. The unit either seems like it's locusts are cost effective enough that they brutally punish any immobile Terran army, or they arnt cost effective so they are complete trash. Mabey making them like carriers would work were locusts cost small amounts of money, so that swarm hosts are more of a commitment and they cut into a Zerg players bank.
this sounds like a good idea $10 or $5 locusts for the Swarmhosts.
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China6327 Posts
I would like to keep the Immortal ability though.
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certainly one of the better among the recent patches... nonetheless... the very fact that it's necessary to constantly tweak balance is turning me off
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On December 06 2016 05:57 washikie wrote:
I would be much more ok with vipers if swarmhosts were not such a brutal counter to tanks, until swarmhost strength is addressed mech players cannot dream of pushing into a Zerg player. Mech will remain a turtle style or it won't be viable at higher levels of play. I'm not sure how you fix swarmhosts without making them useless though. The unit either seems like it's locusts are cost effective enough that they brutally punish any immobile Terran army, or they arnt cost effective so they are complete trash. Mabey making them like carriers would work were locusts cost small amounts of money, so that swarm hosts are more of a commitment and they cut into a Zerg players bank.
They should go a different direction entirely and make them into a dedicated ground AA unit imo. That would allow more room in redesigning the viper if another unit could potentially fill its AA functions. I wish they'd stop banging their heads against the wall with locusts and just try scourge. :/
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Russian Federation54 Posts
Please make immortal ability activate only when all shields lost.... it will be enough to buff it.
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I wouldn't mind cheaper Hydra's. I would rather low supply cheaper hydras than super strong Hydra's. Hope this doesn't kill off Hydra's again.
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Nooo don't buff the range on Tempests. Equal range to the Thor means only one or 2 Thors will shoot and so making Tempests easy to snipe Thors with. This turns the tide in the flying units favor. Protoss does not need for the Tempest to be an anti mech unit, it has a lot of options already. Keep the Tempest as an anti BL/BC counter and just give it a low range low dmg AtG; they are boring units anyway.
Carefull with the Immortal to not to buff it against mech.
The rest seem reasonable.
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Mass ravens and swarmhosts says hello.
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It feels new to see the abbreviation of Community Feedback Update; somehow I thought OP's swearing.
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pretty damn cool DK is providing this level of granularity of feedback.
On December 06 2016 13:04 RevTiberius wrote:
certainly one of the better among the recent patches... nonetheless... the very fact that it's necessary to constantly tweak balance is turning me off
play an older game that's fully settled. diverse race RTS games take more than 1 year and often never get fully balanced. completely balancing a diverse race RTS while still keeping it fun is a brutally difficult job.
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On December 06 2016 14:08 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Nooo don't buff the range on Tempests. Equal range to the Thor means only one or 2 Thors will shoot and so making Tempests easy to snipe Thors with. This turns the tide in the flying units favor. Protoss does not need for the Tempest to be an anti mech unit, it has a lot of options already. Keep the Tempest as an anti BL/BC counter and just give it a low range low dmg AtG; they are boring units anyway.
Carefull with the Immortal to not to buff it against mech.
The rest seem reasonable.
actually the removal of the spell makes the tempest worse against mech imo as the tempest ability is extremely good against the immobile mech units.
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On December 06 2016 14:37 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 14:08 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Nooo don't buff the range on Tempests. Equal range to the Thor means only one or 2 Thors will shoot and so making Tempests easy to snipe Thors with. This turns the tide in the flying units favor. Protoss does not need for the Tempest to be an anti mech unit, it has a lot of options already. Keep the Tempest as an anti BL/BC counter and just give it a low range low dmg AtG; they are boring units anyway.
Carefull with the Immortal to not to buff it against mech.
The rest seem reasonable. actually the removal of the spell makes the tempest worse against mech imo as the tempest ability is extremely good against the immobile mech units.
I disagree with this. Mass Tempests will be much better now. You could move thors away from the "zone" and spread Tanks, now Tempests can do what they've always done, taking just one or two shots in the process. If we had a Faster GtA that could get in position maybe, but the slow, big, expensive Thor will be easy fooder for mass Tempests.
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On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait!
This.
When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback:
"I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake".
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 06 2016 15:13 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait! This. When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback: "I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake".
1.) If you looose on ladder to "random" thing than you did a bad job with scouting or did not care to scout at all
2.) stop being mad for your mistakes
3.) these balance patches are happening for 6years and will continue to happen to shake the meta
4.) stop being mad for your mistakes
5.) yes this is off season and the offseason will happen every year or so
6.) stop being mad for your mistakes
7.) they sold you the game with complete multiplayer story, coop with neverending content, arcades... ladder is just part of it
8.) stop being mad for your mistakes
9.) they do not disrespect anyone, so far it even looks like they read balahe posts from community
10.) stop being mad for your mistakes
11.) gl sueing multi bilion dollar company and not ending badly
12.) stop being mad for your mistakes
Here.. now you can be mad on me cause i tried a bit to piss you off even more so lets see how it works
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On December 06 2016 15:28 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 15:13 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait! This. When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback: "I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake". 1.) If you looose on ladder to "random" thing than you did a bad job with scouting or did not care to scout at all 2.) stop being mad for your mistakes 3.) these balance patches are happening for 6years and will continue to happen to shake the meta 4.) stop being mad for your mistakes 5.) yes this is off season and the offseason will happen every year or so 6.) stop being mad for your mistakes 7.) they sold you the game with complete multiplayer story, coop with neverending content, arcades... ladder is just part of it 8.) stop being mad for your mistakes 9.) they do not disrespect anyone, so far it even looks like they read balahe posts from community 10.) stop being mad for your mistakes 11.) gl sueing multi bilion dollar company and not ending badly 12.) stop being mad for your mistakes Here.. now you can be mad on me cause i tried a bit to piss you off even more so lets see how it works
If obvious trolling (?) is meant to piss me off then... ok im pissed off. Because everything you wrote is just controversial crap.
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On December 06 2016 15:38 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 15:28 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 15:13 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait! This. When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback: "I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake". 1.) If you looose on ladder to "random" thing than you did a bad job with scouting or did not care to scout at all 2.) stop being mad for your mistakes 3.) these balance patches are happening for 6years and will continue to happen to shake the meta 4.) stop being mad for your mistakes 5.) yes this is off season and the offseason will happen every year or so 6.) stop being mad for your mistakes 7.) they sold you the game with complete multiplayer story, coop with neverending content, arcades... ladder is just part of it 8.) stop being mad for your mistakes 9.) they do not disrespect anyone, so far it even looks like they read balahe posts from community 10.) stop being mad for your mistakes 11.) gl sueing multi bilion dollar company and not ending badly 12.) stop being mad for your mistakes Here.. now you can be mad on me cause i tried a bit to piss you off even more so lets see how it works If obvious trolling (?) is meant to piss me off then... ok im pissed off. Because everything you wrote is just controversial crap.
I'm not there is so much wrong in what you said that there is no racional response to that... but i tried! x) Maybe i was trolling in steps 2,4,6,8,10 and 12, but all of the other points are just facts screaming from your original post xP
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On December 06 2016 15:40 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 15:38 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 15:28 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 15:13 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait! This. When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback: "I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake". 1.) If you looose on ladder to "random" thing than you did a bad job with scouting or did not care to scout at all 2.) stop being mad for your mistakes 3.) these balance patches are happening for 6years and will continue to happen to shake the meta 4.) stop being mad for your mistakes 5.) yes this is off season and the offseason will happen every year or so 6.) stop being mad for your mistakes 7.) they sold you the game with complete multiplayer story, coop with neverending content, arcades... ladder is just part of it 8.) stop being mad for your mistakes 9.) they do not disrespect anyone, so far it even looks like they read balahe posts from community 10.) stop being mad for your mistakes 11.) gl sueing multi bilion dollar company and not ending badly 12.) stop being mad for your mistakes Here.. now you can be mad on me cause i tried a bit to piss you off even more so lets see how it works If obvious trolling (?) is meant to piss me off then... ok im pissed off. Because everything you wrote is just controversial crap. I'm not there is so much wrong in what you said that there is no racional response to that... but i tried! x) Maybe i was trolling in steps 2,4,6,8,10 and 12, but all of the other points are just facts screaming from your original post xP
Stating the fact the game is chaotically changed and tweaked with no clear reasoning needs no racional response, pretty much this. And you clearly failed your try, mr Troll.
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protoss gets the short end of the stick again. no good way to scout early game. pvt and pvz ends in baserace half the time. no realible aoe that u need to have couse gateway units are shit sigh*
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Exactly fucking that. Can't agree more with those proposed changes 
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There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
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On December 06 2016 08:13 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 07:27 petro1987 wrote:On December 06 2016 07:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
A hydra (and possible viper) nerf combined with a tempest buff.... I can't imagine that will make later game skytoss any less impossible to deal with The viper nerf is in blinding cloud duration. How is that relevant in fighting skytoss? Because parasitic bomb does nothing vs a Protoss that can split unless you get like 20 vipers. Parasitic Bomb deals 60 damage, but a Carrier has 400 health, which means it takes 7 Parasitic Bombs to kill one Carrier. So unless the Toss player is an idiot and clumps their army up and gets it all fungalled, Parasitic Bomb is useless vs Skytoss. This doesn't even account for the fact that Toss will likely have HT with their army for storm and feedback. So Zerg basically either has to make Corruptors and pray that Toss doesn't make Void Rays, make Hydras and pray Toss doesn't have enough Carriers, or all-in, none of which are fun. Blizzard once again proving they have no idea how to balance this game, or make it fun. Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 07:56 Sacrilege wrote:
From a Zerg's standpoint, why does blinding cloud have to be such a all or nothing ability? What if it was reworked to maintain it as it is but instead of units have 0 range within, just reduce range by 50-60%. Personally I just don't like the whole concept of abilities being all or nothing. Well all-or-nothing is unfortunately what Blizzard considers to be good design. It's the philosophy behind the game's hard counter system and the builds players are forced into. Either a unit is going to be countered by another unit, or it will hard counter it. There is little middle ground.
But... blinding cloud can't hit air... so viper interaction with air is a the exact same if blinding cloud is changed..... now if a different change is used than mabey you have a point.
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nerf carrier too. skytoss is really strong against zerg 
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On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
I think your being a bit dishonest yes Zerg tier 3 got nerfed but to call baneling hp buff irelivant??? A core Zerg unit in zvt got an hp buff!!!, Imagine if bliz buffed maurders or stalkers! Further due to lib nerf mutas are back in the mu. yes ultras got nerfed but now Zerg can win like they did in hots, go mutas get a 4th get to the point t can't crack you than crush there production with 27+ mutas than kill t's last army. So z was heavily compensated for ultra nerf, to the point I think they are overall stronger vs bio than before I mean ultras are still a lot better than hots. As for mech well ... lol. Realy from a Terran perspective all we got was bio suport unit nerfs and bio counter unit buffs, + raven buff/ Thor buff. Because honestly mech and tanks still don't work, infact both are noticeably worse with removal of tankivacs. So you can call us cry babies.... but you seem to be the one who is whining the hardest. I wish my race would get big midgame buffs like Zerg gee whiz. Now that bliz is trying to dial back zergs strength you accuse everyone else of being whiners, I think a change is fair. Honestly a lot of these comments sound like they are from people who don't play the game or at least dont play in the masters + meta.
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On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Pretty much this. Zerg gets only nerfs, while boredom-fest which is mech receives only buffs. GJ Blizz. No wonder I no longer play SC2 because it has become unfair and boring.
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Sorry mods mis post ment to edit not quote myself...
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On December 06 2016 17:15 washikie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
I think your being a bit dishonest yes Zerg tier 3 got nerfed but to call baneling hp buff irelivant??? A core Zerg unit in zvt got an hp buff!!!, Imagine if bliz buffed maurders or stalkers! Further due to lib nerf mutas are back in the mu. yes ultras got nerfed but now Zerg can win like they did in hots, go mutas get a 4th get to the point t can't crack you than crush there production with 27+ mutas than kill t's last army. So z was heavily compensated for ultra nerf, to the point I think they are overall stronger vs bio than before I mean ultras are still a lot better than hots. As for mech well ... lol. Realy from a Terran perspective all we got was bio suport unit nerfs and bio counter unit buffs, + raven buff/ Thor buff. Because honestly mech and tanks still don't work, infact both are noticeably worse with removal of tankivacs. So you can call us cry babies.... but you seem to be the one who is whining the hardest. I wish my race would get big midgame buffs like Zerg gee whiz. Now that bliz is trying to dial back zergs strength you accuse everyone else of being whiners, I think a change is fair.
Nobody wanted and asked Blizzard for baneling buff. It's some random change. Yes. Libs were nerfed and mutas came back but...guess what- they buffed Thors vs air XDDD. Still it's worth more to build Corruptors. As they deal with Liberators better and are more tanky vs Thors for example. Midgame Buffs? The one of 2 midgame buffs Zerg got in this patch was just reverted. And it was the better one. I wonder how would you feel if Blizzard reverted Tanks buff but without bringing back Tankivacs. So please, don't even try to understand how i feel. Blizzard always nerfs everything good that Zerg has because people like you- trying to make this game more compatibile with your own game style, not your gamestyle more compatibile with the game instead.
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On December 06 2016 17:27 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 17:15 washikie wrote:On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
I think your being a bit dishonest yes Zerg tier 3 got nerfed but to call baneling hp buff irelivant??? A core Zerg unit in zvt got an hp buff!!!, Imagine if bliz buffed maurders or stalkers! Further due to lib nerf mutas are back in the mu. yes ultras got nerfed but now Zerg can win like they did in hots, go mutas get a 4th get to the point t can't crack you than crush there production with 27+ mutas than kill t's last army. So z was heavily compensated for ultra nerf, to the point I think they are overall stronger vs bio than before I mean ultras are still a lot better than hots. As for mech well ... lol. Realy from a Terran perspective all we got was bio suport unit nerfs and bio counter unit buffs, + raven buff/ Thor buff. Because honestly mech and tanks still don't work, infact both are noticeably worse with removal of tankivacs. So you can call us cry babies.... but you seem to be the one who is whining the hardest. I wish my race would get big midgame buffs like Zerg gee whiz. Now that bliz is trying to dial back zergs strength you accuse everyone else of being whiners, I think a change is fair. Nobody wanted and asked Blizzard for baneling buff. It's some random change. Yes. Libs were nerfed and mutas came back but...guess what- they buffed Thors vs air XDDD. Still it's worth more to build Corruptors. As they deal with Liberators better and are more tanky vs Thors for example. Midgame Buffs? The one of 2 midgame buffs Zerg got in this patch was just reverted. And it was the better one. I wonder how would you feel if Blizzard reverted Tanks buff but without bringing back Tankivacs. So please, don't even try to understand how i feel. Blizzard always nerfs everything good that Zerg has because people like you- trying to make this game more compatibile with your own game style, not your gamestyle more compatibile with the game instead.
It does not matter that you did not ask for bane buff you got it and it's prity strong, also thors are a lot worse for defending mutas than libs if you get 6+ libs mutas are awful so z would not build more than around 12-15. Even if thors do decent against mutas thors are slow and clunky so getteing thors does not shut down muta play. as for me I admit I like bio but I play what's good, I think it's a silly argument to say that it's wrong for people to ask for more than exactly one tech path and unit comp to play a stratagey game with. Part of the fun of stratagey games is getting to play around with builds/ unit composition, for the past year in tvz prity much t opens 2-1-1, 3 rax or less commonly hellion banshee and than goes bio + mine or bio + tank into libs based on zergs unit comp. at least zergs have got to play both roach ravager, ling bane ultra rush, or ling bane Mutaa into ultra. Why is it so nefarious to ask for variety of gameplay, I myself like bio so personally I don't care to much that mech does not work but it's silly that it does not. Also this is not about how you feal this is about if the game is balanced, personally I miss 3.7 but that ship has sailed. Further no rolling back hydra change is not the same as the situation you described hydras will be no worse than they were pre patch they also keep the speed buff, and might still get a different buff like +hp.
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Part of the fun of stratagey games is getting to play around with builds/ unit composition, for the past year in tvz prity much t opens 2-1-1, 3 rax or less commonly hellion banshee and than goes bio + mine or bio + tank into libs based on zergs unit comp. at least zergs have got to play both roach ravager, ling bane ultra rush, or ling bane Mutaa into ultra. Why is it so nefarious to ask for variety of gameplay, I myself like bio so personally I don't care to much that mech does not work but it's silly that it does not. Also this is not about how you feal this is about if the game is balanced. Further no rolling back hydra change is not the same as the situation you described hydras will be no worse than they were pre patch, and might still get a different buff like +hp.
Well, tell me when ling-bane-ultra rush (ultra RUSH? are you serious?) was viable strategy. Last I checked it was called macro, with plenty of time given to enemy to prepare counter-measures. Roach-ravager gets roflstomped after like 8 min, so it's like 16-marines drop opening or mass reapers one - it's not viable lategame macro strategy. Ling-bane-muta was left behind in HotS for reasons, and now with thors effectively replacing liberators as muta counter, it's not viable either. So I don't see plenty of strategies for zerg in ZvT match-up.
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On December 06 2016 17:56 Muxtar wrote:Show nested quote +
Part of the fun of stratagey games is getting to play around with builds/ unit composition, for the past year in tvz prity much t opens 2-1-1, 3 rax or less commonly hellion banshee and than goes bio + mine or bio + tank into libs based on zergs unit comp. at least zergs have got to play both roach ravager, ling bane ultra rush, or ling bane Mutaa into ultra. Why is it so nefarious to ask for variety of gameplay, I myself like bio so personally I don't care to much that mech does not work but it's silly that it does not. Also this is not about how you feal this is about if the game is balanced. Further no rolling back hydra change is not the same as the situation you described hydras will be no worse than they were pre patch, and might still get a different buff like +hp.
Well, tell me when ling-bane-ultra rush (ultra RUSH? are you serious?) was viable strategy. Last I checked it was called macro, with plenty of time given to enemy to prepare counter-measures. Roach-ravager gets roflstomped after like 8 min, so it's like 16-marines drop opening or mass reapers one - it's not viable lategame macro strategy. Ling-bane-muta was left behind in HotS for reasons, and now with thors effectively replacing liberators as muta counter, it's not viable either. So I don't see plenty of strategies for zerg in ZvT match-up.
Now that's a more reasonable statement I'm all for having Zerg have more viable ways to play as well I'd love it if lurkers could enter the matchup or ping infestor worked like it did in wol (well minus the op broodlord lare game) as for thors as I said yeah they are good vs mutas when they fight mutas thing is, when is a muta player going to fight 3+thors when they can just go around and do damage to production, exposed 4th bases, or pick of reinforcements thors are an increadably slow and clunky unit so the interaction between them and mutas is very different from 6 libs that move almost as fast totally shutting down harassment. Also ravager not a viable late game start, I've seen countless games at the pro level of European zergs using them to turtle to ultras.
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On December 06 2016 05:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
A hydra nerf is very welcome.
If Carrier turtle was not a freewin for protoss before, it will surely be now. Blizzard should know that if they watched the last HSC. Anyway if they revert the range alone 3.8 will have been a nerf for Hydras. The 2 upgrades has to be combined again. Or maybe give them a significant HP buff so they can actually deal with Carriers with the lowered range.
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as for thors as I said yeah they are good vs mutas when they fight mutas thing is, when is a muta player going to fight 3+thors when they can just go around and do damage to production, exposed 4th bases, or pick of reinforcements thors are an increadably slow and clunky unit so the interaction between them and mutas is very different from 6 libs that move almost as fast totally shutting down harassment. Also ravager not a viable late game start, I've seen countless games at the pro level of European zergs using them to turtle to ultras.
I agree with you that thors are more clunky and easier to outrun, but to do so you need micro level like Life's or close enough. And terran needs much less micro to use thors, it's all about positioning and having built decent amount of turrets to defend production and mineral line on 4th etc. I also agree that ultra was kinda overbuffed prior to 3.8 and had to get some nerf, and its current state is ok (especially with infestors buff), but it is all about ZvBio playstyle, which was more or less balanced before. With buffing of mech it's like comeback to 2015, whe Life threw all he could muster at Innovation, and terran just turtled and won easily. And they consider even further viper nerf...
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On December 06 2016 18:22 Muxtar wrote:Show nested quote +
as for thors as I said yeah they are good vs mutas when they fight mutas thing is, when is a muta player going to fight 3+thors when they can just go around and do damage to production, exposed 4th bases, or pick of reinforcements thors are an increadably slow and clunky unit so the interaction between them and mutas is very different from 6 libs that move almost as fast totally shutting down harassment. Also ravager not a viable late game start, I've seen countless games at the pro level of European zergs using them to turtle to ultras.
I agree with you that thors are more clunky and easier to outrun, but to do so you need micro level like Life's or close enough. And terran needs much less micro to use thors, it's all about positioning and having built decent amount of turrets to defend production and mineral line on 4th etc. I also agree that ultra was kinda overbuffed prior to 3.8 and had to get some nerf, and its current state is ok (especially with infestors buff), but it is all about ZvBio playstyle, which was more or less balanced before. With buffing of mech it's like comeback to 2015, whe Life threw all he could muster at Innovation, and terran just turtled and won easily. And they consider even further viper nerf...
If Terran has multiple thors in his base either he is not pushing Zerg so Zerg can tech to t3 or he is so ahead he could also win but going Allin and not having multiple thors in his main. As for it taking life level micro to control mutas... no. Most mid masters Zerg can use mutas in the way I described and low level pros/ streamers certainly can. Personal anecdote is generally useless but just a few days ago I got crushed by livibe even though I was 20 supply and an upgrade up because she chose to base trade with mutas, livibee is good but I don't think she has "life level" micro yet she was able to send her mutas to my base when I moved out. I'm not saying mutas are broken, its kind of refreshing to see them back but to pretend like they did not get a lot better is phony. As for mech...mech still sucks it's probably worse now than the brand of mech ty and info were using before the patch. Yeah tanks are good but swarmhosts are better and early mutas also slow mechs development allot add in 7 range hydras+vipers well, I'd at least rather go bio evrey game despite the nerfs+buffs to banelings
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Here's the deal, you want to reduce the amount of abilities for newer Protoss players so they can actually learn the game and not fumble over themselves. At the same time, you don't want to reduce the leverage a mechanical God Protoss can gain from mastering this micro&ability madness. You certainly don't want to make units less interesting.
The Tempest change would make the unit a lot less interesting and the Immortal change would reduce the leverage of the mechanical God Protoss.
So if anything I'm more for going in the opposite direction, nerf the Tempests normal attack, be it through range or + Massive damage and make the ability more core, either by implementing it into it's attack somehow, or by reducing it's cast time so that it can even work on faster unit compositions and that way buff the spells versatility.
On the Immortal I think the Barrier should be able to absorb unlimited amounts of damage, but at the cost of the Immortals range. I think it doesn't fit the unit's identity too well that it's actually a long ranged unit. I'm thinking something severe like a range of 3-4, this way the Immortal walks ahead of your army along with your Archons, they do their tanking and it's more of a frontline shotgunner. Prism play where you drop these on top of Siege Tanks would be super strong and exciting. Furthermore it promotes micro from the opposing player, if you just sit there and shoot the Immortal with Marines or Hydralisks you can lose the battle straight up!
In a way this is similar to the Hydralisk range buff, since in comparison to the Immortal, Hydralisks will have a lot longer range.
Now for the Hydralisk I think it would be great if the unit started off at 6 range, this is to combat the too fast turtle to Carrier styles. This way the Protoss needs to get out on the map in some sort of way, before resorting to his Carrier tactics. If the Hydralisk still needs help I would suggest a Tissue Regeneration(on Creep) upgrade, which promotes some level of Micro reward for Zergs who excel in this area of expertise. I think it's pretty clear that Zerg is the race that by far gets the short end of the stick, when it comes to using your units well. Something like a Tissure Regeneration(on Creep,) would greatly benefit Zergs who takes their time to pull back individual weakened Hydralisks, they can then heal up, get ready and be utilized again.
Another way you could buff the Hydralisk is to make a Hunter Killer upgrade, similar to Troll Berserkers in WC3, where you upgrade it and it makes all your Hydralisks look badass and it could give many sorts of benefits, though I'm not certain exactly what this could be. Could be a Hive +10 HP buff or the Campaign +50% attack speed +50% vulnerability.
It really depends on what Blizzard wants to do with the Hydralisk, this is something that could make Hydralisks a core unit, but if they just want to have Hydralisks appear in the TvZ matchup, then I think a better way might be to change the Lurker instead. Lurkers are not gonna be used vs Marines as long as it takes 3 shots to kill a Marine. It's attack would need to be changed from 20+10(vs armoured) -> 30 damage overall, but at the cost of the speed Spikes travel. This would also promote amazing micro, where it's actually worth it to Blink a Stalker forward and have it run to the side, only to catch all the Lurker fire and that way you can get a favourable engagement. On the flip side the Zerg player can counter this by using Hold Fire and manually targeting the larger bulk of the army. Anyways I'm gonna stop here
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On December 06 2016 06:21 Gullis wrote:
ffs no fucking tempest buff please...
always this guys....
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Always im asking me why i reading this comments, always nonsense. Gold players cry about balance and protoss. The crazy thing is, blizzard is balancing sc2 in dependency with the cry amount over protoss.
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It's always surprising to me how people leave the game because of the amount of nerfs/buffs happening in patches, well
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On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
This wall of text is just another stubborn whine.
- Baneling buff? Well noone asked for the Raven buff either and neither of the races like it. It's just gonna be massing Ravens.
- You know why they hugely buffed SH. Don't pretend to be angry about the obvious cost nerf. It's to make ppl use and explore the unit, but you should know that.
- Play vs burrowed Infestors to be able to judge its current state.
- Ultras had 1 year of domination. They had to be tuned down. What have you been doing the whole past year?
- Not sure about BLs.
- Hydra will get a compensation. Why can't you just read the Update? And you don't know what will happend to the upgrades. You just like to whine, hm?
- When did Zergs anti air got nerfed?
Take your own advice and stop whining before seeing the outcome of the next steps. You are not the only one that's playing the game.
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Nice update, would like to see the hp buff removed from banes (I want bio to be as viable as ever) and moved to the speed upgrade for hydras instead. Also remove the range upgrade and give hydras 6 range by default or combine the upgrades again. Hydras could be a good unit then I think.
Thank god they got rid of that stupid Tempest ability, now also please consider changing the carriers as Snute suggested.
Thanks for adapting so fast Blizzard!
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[QUOTE]On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
So you suggest that 100 mana abduct ability should be used only on stalkers and zealots ? In that case it should cost 50, not 100.
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On December 06 2016 05:49 JackONeill wrote:
So you suggest that 100 mana abduct ability should be used only on stalkers and zealots ? In that case it should cost 50, not 100.
How about Abduct just being more expensive when spent on both ground and air massive units?
75 energy - non-massive
125 energy - massive (it would partially prevent chain pulling crucial stuff and introduce more decision into how to use the Viper, do I pull the core massive units or take out the smaller parts of the army)
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On December 06 2016 21:51 saltis wrote:
So you suggest that 100 mana abduct ability should be used only on stalkers and zealots ? In that case it should cost 50, not 100.
Not only does abduct cost 75, not 100 energy, but stating that anything that isn't ground massive isn't worth abducting is unbelievably dishonnest.
Abduct would still retain the insanely strong capacity to reel in siege tanks, BCs, carriers, tempests, immortals, brood lords, etc.
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On December 06 2016 22:17 Lightrush wrote:
Good suggestions.
User was warned for this post
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[QUOTE]On December 06 2016 08:13 Solar424 wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 06 2016 07:27 petro1987 wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 06 2016 07:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
A hydra (and possible viper) nerf combined with a tempest buff.... I can't imagine that will make later game skytoss any less impossible to deal with[/QUOTE]
The viper nerf is in blinding cloud duration. How is that relevant in fighting skytoss?
[/QUOTE]
Because parasitic bomb does nothing vs a Protoss that can split unless you get like 20 vipers. Parasitic Bomb deals 60 damage, but a Carrier has 400 health, which means it takes 7 Parasitic Bombs to kill one Carrier. So unless the Toss player is an idiot and clumps their army up and gets it all fungalled, Parasitic Bomb is useless vs Skytoss. This doesn't even account for the fact that Toss will likely have HT with their army for storm and feedback. So Zerg basically either has to make Corruptors and pray that Toss doesn't make Void Rays, make Hydras and pray Toss doesn't have enough Carriers, or all-in, none of which are fun. Blizzard once again proving they have no idea how to balance this game, or make it fun.
You are lacking of logic.
Then why no T/Z are dodging storms by splitting instead of just whining?
No Z will ever depends solely on PB vs carriers, you have corruptors for that. If Toss mass VR, zerg can counter with PB. Tech switch is zerg strength, not protoss.
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I don't really understand the massive negative reaction from Zerg it's not like before the hydra buff Zerg was in some unplayable state, reverting it won't make this the case. Maybe after they do it there are more issues, but this can only be worked out later.
They still need to do something about reapers though.
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On December 06 2016 22:51 Ansibled wrote:
I don't really understand the massive negative reaction from Zerg it's not like before the hydra buff Zerg was in some unplayable state, reverting it won't make this the case. Maybe after they do it there are more issues, but this can only be worked out later.
They still need to do something about reapers though.
im starting to agree three rax reaper seems to strong, but I also think its a crutch holding the balance together for Terran right now at the pro level. Ive watched ty go 3 rax reaper evrey game in series regardless of maps now. part of that is that yeah its a good build but the other part is that bio almost needs the tempo now due to the bane hp buff. I hardly see any pros using 2-1-1 post patch even though it was the bread and butter build before the patch i think this tells us something. I still refrain from using the build because im prity sure someday it will get nerfed so I dont want to practice it but I think its a bad idea to nerf reapers without compensation. als a nerf to grendae depending on how its done wont just hurt 3 rax it will hurt 1 rax expands to terran realy relies on the reaper for early map control and a grenade can be the difference between holding and not holding an allin.
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Nice changes, I believe blizzard is moving the right direction
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On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
....
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
....
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
these are just experimental changes. I want Terran Mech to be a viable Tech path not an all-encompassing all-the-time strategy. I like to play Mech but probably not in the turtle style you are bemoaning. These changes make the Tank, the Thor, and particulary the Sieged-Up Tank stronger against Zerg so let's just see how well they work in this experimental stage rather than deciding ahead of time everything sucks balls.
the economy changes made to LotV are, were, and continue to be great.
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On December 06 2016 15:51 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 15:40 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 15:38 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 15:28 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 15:13 insitelol wrote:On December 06 2016 11:42 halomonian wrote:
I wonder when they will release the game. Can't wait! This. When will this end i'm so sick and tired of this idiocy. Listen you, blizzard, here is my feedback: "I want to fucking play the game not read about another load of crap changes that will have 0 effect on the playablity. Fire David Kim he is just dragging attention to his person and creating work for himself. Nothing he does has any kind of sense. These so called "changes" just go round and round, they buff somthing, then nerf something, then buff it again, add ability on a certain unit, tweak ability, remove ability, then add ability again, state they want more micro abilities then state they want less microabilities, saying they want to buff unit then in 2 (!!!) days admiting that was a mistake. Calling this an off-season while there are two major tournaments going on (one of them is another blizzcon in terms of prize money). How much more disrepsect can you show to organaizers and players who devote their time and money to promoting your game, blizzard? I want to play they game, but i can't. Ladder is complete chaos with random builds everybody's trying with no clear ending. I want to remind you that you actually sold me the GAME, not an everlasting beta. I want my gaming experience. I m gona fcking sue you for fsake". 1.) If you looose on ladder to "random" thing than you did a bad job with scouting or did not care to scout at all 2.) stop being mad for your mistakes 3.) these balance patches are happening for 6years and will continue to happen to shake the meta 4.) stop being mad for your mistakes 5.) yes this is off season and the offseason will happen every year or so 6.) stop being mad for your mistakes 7.) they sold you the game with complete multiplayer story, coop with neverending content, arcades... ladder is just part of it 8.) stop being mad for your mistakes 9.) they do not disrespect anyone, so far it even looks like they read balahe posts from community 10.) stop being mad for your mistakes 11.) gl sueing multi bilion dollar company and not ending badly 12.) stop being mad for your mistakes Here.. now you can be mad on me cause i tried a bit to piss you off even more so lets see how it works If obvious trolling (?) is meant to piss me off then... ok im pissed off. Because everything you wrote is just controversial crap. I'm not there is so much wrong in what you said that there is no racional response to that... but i tried! x) Maybe i was trolling in steps 2,4,6,8,10 and 12, but all of the other points are just facts screaming from your original post xP Stating the fact the game is chaotically changed and tweaked with no clear reasoning needs no racional response, pretty much this. And you clearly failed your try, mr Troll.
Decline at the end of HotS was not enough for you?
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The problem with the Hydralisk was never that it didn't do enough damage, it was that it didn't live long enough to do damage, a flat 10 or 15 HP buff would go a massively long ways to making the Hydralisk the core unit it needs to be.
On Blinding Cloud, so you acknowledge that it's broken for mech and useless against mobile units and instead of tuning it so that it's less broken for mech and stronger against mobile units you just, "reduce the duration so tanks can be made". Linear and inelegant change as usual from the balance team, definitely not part of the serious state of decline the game is in or anything I'm sure T__T
- Blinding Cloud now only cuts range by 5
- Biological units stay blinded for 2 seconds after leaving the cloud mechanical units unaffected
There you go, soft counters for the win, something this game is desperately lacking.
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Maybe make Hydra 1 supply and balance them accordingly so "zerg" actually feels like zerg again...
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On December 07 2016 02:40 raXNT wrote:
Maybe make Hydra 1 supply and balance them accordingly so "zerg" actually feels like zerg again...
This has always been my favorite idea.
I think they should just try swapping the hydra with the roach in tech levels and nerf/buff the stats of both accordingly. Might also have to make some adjustments to the lurker and ravager as well given their change in accessibility.
==
More realistically and given what Blizzard is proposing here, I'd favor cheaper hydras over an hp buff.
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On December 07 2016 02:39 Beelzebub1 wrote:
The problem with the Hydralisk was never that it didn't do enough damage, it was that it didn't live long enough to do damage, a flat 10 or 15 HP buff would go a massively long ways to making the Hydralisk the core unit it needs to be.
On Blinding Cloud, so you acknowledge that it's broken for mech and useless against mobile units and instead of tuning it so that it's less broken for mech and stronger against mobile units you just, "reduce the duration so tanks can be made". Linear and inelegant change as usual from the balance team, definitely not part of the serious state of decline the game is in or anything I'm sure T__T
- Blinding Cloud now only cuts range by 5
- Biological units stay blinded for 2 seconds after leaving the cloud mechanical units unaffected
There you go, soft counters for the win, something this game is desperately lacking.
Pretty good idea for the blinding cloud resedign, I also agree with the soft counter design philosophy.
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On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT
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I like most of these changes.
The real problem is Swarm Host though. They currently hard counter mech even harder then vipers.
I am surprised that this is not discussed by blizzard. Mech will never be viable if not Swarm Hosts price is increased.
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the fact that they're willing to keep trying to make the game better with fixes makes me love this game more
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what do we buff for protoss? mmmhmm
User was warned for this post
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On December 07 2016 05:06 iamkaokao wrote:
lets keep nerfing zerg, meanwhile lets give protoss mmmmmm what what.. they alrdy have infinite options, uhmmm lets give them dt blink! yes thats good idea! , lets buff tempest... because carriers are not enough op
what do we buff for protoss? mmmhmm... lets give another skill to high templars, maybe invisibility, lets give another spell to immortals.... yea a shield! they need more shield!!! yesss we need more protoss in proleague, oh no it died..why was every korean team using 80% protoss in their games? uhmm... because they have infinite options to suprise
i have an idea, give, protoss a new abilty to overcharge, every building, and another ability to overcharge colossus too, to make them viable
i was thinking in something special for xmas something awesome like a mother ship core buff.. i just couldn't think of any way to buff that.. because it alrdy stops everything mmmm maybe detection but terrans could complain so im not sure..
What? Zerg got massive Hydralisk buff, it's insane to consider state of the game by amount of tweaks each race gets
edit: ah, that's a poor troll.
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On December 07 2016 03:23 Malgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT
I would die of embarrassment if dkim read this crap. Every time Zerg gets something good? You mean like 9 months of free wins with broodlord infestor? Geez you people are a joke. At least other people are proposing counter changes on all sides, you add nothing to this discussion.
For my POV, as a T, a reduced range for units in BC would be better. Hydras swapped with roaches and stats changed as needed. Do something about 3 rax reaper too.
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- Carrier --> Interceptor way to cheap, at least double the cost, Zerg has no chance against Carrier on 3 Bases
- 3 rax reaper needsnerf
- Hydra range too strong, but Idea of making it a core unit is great, maybe HP Buff? Or Increase costs, so Hydra timings hit later?
- Pls no Tempest Buff, simply not needed, especially with Carriers so strong
- Maybe Buff Ghost against Viper, feels to me Ghost are highly underused --> Showtime was at todays Pig Daily and said, he has no Problems with Viper, because he uses High Templar, why not make Ghost better to do the same for Terran. I think its reasonable for Terran to have Ghost in their Late game composition. Then its a matter of Control if Viper kills you
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So protoss is getting less active abilities, that is a good thing.
However, I wonder if tempests will still prove to be a problem. With their stun ability, they were usually used to engage into a mech army. Generally, a battle would be tempest stun ->zealots charge -> immortals follow + turn on ability -> rest of army engage.
With both abilities removed, I feel like the battle will move in this fashion: tempests take potshots on tanks/turrets -> weaken fortification -> when viable, a+move everything else.
I'm not sure, but we are moving from a situation that requires a lot of micro, to one that needs very little.
I don't like it.
Regarding the viper's blinding cloud, a reduction in time would be interesting to test first. It would give tanks a bit more survival, but blinding cloud would still remain powerful. This would make zergs engagements a little more difficult, and I predict they might rely on abducts more until they are confident in engaging.
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Wow now shield on the immortal.. Thats all for now? Oh my Lord.. It wont help vs hidras.. Collossus useless again, i mean ffs really.. At least change the timewarp so we can do something..
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On December 07 2016 05:53 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:23 Malgo wrote:On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT I would die of embarrassment if dkim read this crap. Every time Zerg gets something good? You mean like 9 months of free wins with broodlord infestor? Geez you people are a joke. At least other people are proposing counter changes on all sides, you add nothing to this discussion. For my POV, as a T, a reduced range for units in BC would be better. Hydras swapped with roaches and stats changed as needed. Do something about 3 rax reaper too.
If i hear one more time about Broodlord/Infestor i will vomit. It was 5 freaking years agoo almost. Get over it.
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On December 07 2016 07:17 AlexGPunkt wrote:
- Carrier --> Interceptor way to cheap, at least double the cost, Zerg has no chance against Carrier on 3 Bases
- 3 rax reaper needsnerf
- Hydra range too strong, but Idea of making it a core unit is great, maybe HP Buff? Or Increase costs, so Hydra timings hit later?
- Pls no Tempest Buff, simply not needed, especially with Carriers so strong
- Maybe Buff Ghost against Viper, feels to me Ghost are highly underused --> Showtime was at todays Pig Daily and said, he has no Problems with Viper, because he uses High Templar, why not make Ghost better to do the same for Terran. I think its reasonable for Terran to have Ghost in their Late game composition. Then its a matter of Control if Viper kills you
Good points, only 2 things to add:
1 - Mechers complain about mass hydra, not a specific timing, so the problem, according to them, is the range.
2 - Buffing ghosts would just make turtling more viable and i don't think this is what people want, not even mechers since it's a bio unit.
The only way i see a solution is an alternative to siege tanks, because they will never have the same interaction as Broodwar, the game is completely different. Siege tanks will always lead to mass defense and i would like to not have that.
Also, remove or repurpose the Swarm Host.
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SH was already repurposed from siege to harass unit.
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On December 07 2016 08:11 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 05:53 DeadByDawn wrote:On December 07 2016 03:23 Malgo wrote:On December 06 2016 17:04 hiroshOne wrote:
There are no words to express my dissapointment in Blizzard after this news.
I wonder why this company feel obliged to doing everything that whining Terrans and Protosses demand. Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground. All I see is nerfs, nerfs,nerfs.
So let's resume this patch for Zerg:
- U gave us irrelevant Baneling HP Buff which nobody demanded and needed.
- Lowered the cost of Swarmhost, which no one wanted, and to make it more funny, u admitted you will nerf it in the same moment hahaha, what a joke.
- The only good change is Infestor- but hey- Terrans and Protosses whuine about that so why won't you nerf it already?
and now the funniest thing- This patch is all about nerfs for Zerg:
- Ultralisk nerf
-Broodlord ner
-Blinding Cloud Nerf
- Hydralisks- buffed but then nerfed with 2 upgrades, and now stats reverted to previous state- and u didn't mentioned about those upgrade split? so let me get this straight. Now i will have same shitty hydralisks as it was in previous patch, but i will have to make 2 upgrades to make them viable? Hahaha what a freaking joke.
In the same time u Buffed tanks, Thors, Ravens, Tempests, Carriers, now i hear about buffing Cyclones, Immortals...
Let's get to the point. Is it REALLY GOOD IDEA to nerf Zerg's anti air when u know for a fact that this race is struggling with Air Toss or Sky Terran, and in the freaking same time BUFFING TEMPESTS? Is this for real?
Nerfing Blinding Cloud duration time...Is this for real again? So for example Terran sets his siege tank line. Siegetanks has 13 freaking range. I drop blinding cloud on them and move my army to deal the damage. And what happens? Hahahaha, blinding cloud finishes when I'm in the half way- Boom - my whole army is dead. BC will finish before i get there with my dmg dealing army- NICE FREAKING JOB BLIZZ.
But hey- u just made Avilo happy. I bet it was worth it to provide support for this cancerous style of play, which only few ppl on the world use. Stay happy with tower defence gameplay.
This makes me sick. U always dod that. Only few minutes passed from publishing this changes and Terran and Toss starts whine more. Now they whine about Ravagers, Infestors, Parasatic Bomb, Abduct. Hell yeah Blizzard, nerf it all BECAUSE THEY CRY without even trying to deal with it with what they got now.
This attidude makes this game ballshit David. Not to mention that thanks to Economy and macro nerfs Zerg has the worst economy from all races. LOL- Swarm my ass.
Just this. David Kim READ THAT I would die of embarrassment if dkim read this crap. Every time Zerg gets something good? You mean like 9 months of free wins with broodlord infestor? Geez you people are a joke. At least other people are proposing counter changes on all sides, you add nothing to this discussion. For my POV, as a T, a reduced range for units in BC would be better. Hydras swapped with roaches and stats changed as needed. Do something about 3 rax reaper too. If i hear one more time about Broodlord/Infestor i will vomit. It was 5 freaking years agoo almost. Get over it.
But it does invalidate your point, completely and utterly.
Every freaking time Zerg gets something good, after few days it's nerfed to the ground
The only complaint that I have with Blizzard's balancing is it can sometimes seem a little random. I do not believe that their balancing intentionally favors one race over another. The Blizz devs play all races.
If there are imbalances then they will attempt to fix them. Will they make the best attempt, probably not, but this absurd level of whine, based on almost no facts at all, will not get Blizzard to consider your point of view.
And still SC2 is the best RTS available today, until BW HD remaster that is. Then Blizzard will have the 2 best RTSs on the market. Seems no one else can make RTS work at the moment, so well done Blizzard.
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TERRAN
Reaper: Grenades no longer deal damage
Cyclone: starts with 5 range (upgrade give +2 range)
Medivac: Slower acceleration movement speed
ZERG
Hydra: starts with 5 range (upgrade now give +1)
Lurker: 8 Range
PROTOSS
Carrier: Interceptors Range lowered to 10 (instead of 14 after launching)
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I like the idea of a health buff for hydras. Would be interesting to test.
I think binding cloud is fine and in fact I would like it to be stronger. Abduct is a really silly ability and I don't think it would be missed by many people. I would love to see abduct removed and he vipers other spells become even more powerful.
The carrier is a little too strong right now when maxed. I'd like to see interceptors cost a little more again and think of another way to buff them. Oracle shield battery is cool idea. What if the oracle could 'seige' into a shield battery?
Otherwise thank you for staying in touch
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give toss something to use vs libs midgame and something to help with basetrades not happening evry other game pvz and pvt
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I'm kind of surprised that few people are getting annoyed at the BC. The dev team effectively turned it into an harass unit (oh surprise), and probably the most insufferable one in the game.
"move across the map, deal damage, and as soon as you see the ennemy army, yamato to pick off expansive unit, and TP back home. Repair, and repeat a minute later"
And meanwhile the BC is still terrible at frontal engagement because it gets shredded so hard by stalkers, hydras, vikings, void rays, corruptors, vipers, tempests.
I don't want the BC to become the terran "15 range tempest + revelation". Free and safe harass damage with poor frontal fighting value is probably the most terrible way to design a 400/300 capital shit.
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On December 07 2016 21:14 JackONeill wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that few people are getting annoyed at the BC. The dev team effectively turned it into an harass unit (oh surprise), and probably the most insufferable one in the game.
"move across the map, deal damage, and as soon as you see the ennemy army, yamato to pick off expansive unit, and TP back home. Repair, and repeat a minute later"
And meanwhile the BC is still terrible at frontal engagement because it gets shredded so hard by stalkers, hydras, vikings, void rays, corruptors, vipers, tempests.
I don't want the BC to become the terran "15 range tempest + revelation". Free and safe harass damage with poor frontal fighting value is probably the most terrible way to design a 400/300 capital shit.
I also don't like this version of BC very much. I rather have the BW's version, with a high burst dmg. But you have to understand that with Blizzard is take what you can get. If we actually complain about BC, they will just nerf it to the ground, and that's it, it's gonna be beyond terrible again. Then, maybe in a couple years, they will look into it again. Meanwhile, you get a unit that is terrible. In an ideal world? Sure, I would complain about BC's current version... But this is Blizzard we are talking about. They iterate so slowly and so inconsistently that after they nerf a unit, anything can happen.
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Holy shit they actually realized the problem with the new hydra is the 7 range and buffing Collossus is not the right thing to do, instead they are thinking about going back to the old range and give an HP buff instead. I'm actually baffled they got this right tbh.
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range).
On Blinding Cloud: I like the idea of this ability lowering the range by 5-6 to a minimum of 1, instead of lowering the duration.
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Wouldn't putting a limit to the reaper granates solve the reaper problem?
Like each reaper just has 2 granades. I think the unlimited amount of granates was the problem in many games vs z i saw.
But if you nerf the damage or remove it, again the reaper would also suck more than it does now, in general and it would even be harder to get a probe or drone if the opponent does not micro correctly..
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On December 07 2016 22:23 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
Wouldn't putting a limit to the reaper granates solve the reaper problem?
Like each reaper just has 2 granades. I think the unlimited amount of granates was the problem in many games vs z i saw.
But if you nerf the damage or remove it, again the reaper would also suck more than it does now, in general and it would even be harder to get a probe or drone if the opponent does not micro correctly..
Remove knock-back effect and it would be probably enough.
If not - proceed with what You've suggested, limit amount of grandes the reaper has to 2-5 pieces.
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On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range).
Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty
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On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty
Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff.
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On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff.
I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol
But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure
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On December 08 2016 00:06 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff. I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure
On retrospective, I think they added it to compensate for the fact that widow mines wrecked mutas.
Even if I also love muta/ling/bling, I still think the free buffs for flying units (mutas and specially medivacs) created more problems than they solved and are basically the reason for MSC existing.
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On December 08 2016 00:26 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 00:06 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 23:45 Salteador Neo wrote:On December 07 2016 23:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 21:48 Salteador Neo wrote:
Remember how most of the issues in HotS were born because of new random buffs that weren't needed at all, like Medivac speed boost or Muta health regen. And instead of reverting them, they just buffed/created the appropiate counters (MSC and phoenix range). Phoenix range upgrade was added in Wings of Liberty Oh I stand corrected, I was damn convinced that was because of the muta regen buff. I think it was the other way, the muta regen was added because of the phoenix range upgrade lol But anyway, if mutalisks didn't have this tissue regeneration the ZvT ling/bane/muta metagame in HotS that was so loved by the community wouldn't exist or would be much different. They actually might have added this because of that, but not sure On retrospective, I think they added it to compensate for the fact that widow mines wrecked mutas. Even if I also love muta/ling/bling, I still think the free buffs for flying units (mutas and specially medivacs) created more problems than they solved and are basically the reason for MSC existing.
Yeah afaik the changes order was:
1. WM introduction - which can shoot air and therefore bio mine was dealing too much damage to mutmuts. Ling/bane/muta was perfectly fine in wol without regen.
2. Buff to health regeneration for mutmuts
3. Buff to base weapon range of phoenix (not upgrade). In wol it was 4 in hots was buffed to 5
the other buffs to flying units were mostly to speed and a lot of air units did receive them sooner or later
Medivacs, muta, phoenix, banshee, overlord, oracle etc
And I agree that this buffs spiraled out of control.
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On December 07 2016 22:23 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
Wouldn't putting a limit to the reaper granates solve the reaper problem?
Like each reaper just has 2 granades. I think the unlimited amount of granates was the problem in many games vs z i saw.
But if you nerf the damage or remove it, again the reaper would also suck more than it does now, in general and it would even be harder to get a probe or drone if the opponent does not micro correctly..
It's a scouting unit, not meant to kill stuff.
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The grenade for reapers are just plain bad imo, i mean that in a boring noneinteractive way.
If the reaper is a sucky unit without it - no reason to add it. ADD SOMETHING WHEN IT ADDS TO THE GAMEPLY
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
