Translated upon request from someone in the community. TL staff & mods: please move or edit as necessary; it's been a while since I did something like this here.
영국 게임단 TCM게이밍에서 활동했던 '철벽' 김민철이 소속팀으로부터 임금을 체불당한 것으로 알려졌다.
김민철은 최근 전 프로게이머 김명운의 개인방송에 출연해 최근까지 활동했던 TCM게이밍으로부터 5개월 넘게 월급을 받지 못했다고 말했다. 김민철은 지난 6월쯤 팀을 나와 무소속으로 지내는 중이다.
김민철은 "5개월 넘게 월급을 안줬고 나에게 신경도 쓰지 않았다. 그냥 팀에서 잠수를 타버렸다"며 "원래 협회 팀을 들어가려고 했지만 TCM게이밍에서 2,800파운드(한화 약 400만원) 이적료를 요구하는 바람에 입단이 좌절됐다"고 설명했다.
이어 그는 "'공허의 유산' 출시 이후 열심히 하려고 했다. 하루에 40게임 정도 연습했다. 그렇지만 한국 선수들의 해외 대회 출전이 금지되면서 의욕이 꺾이고 말았다"고 전했다.
김민철은 "SK텔레콤에 있을 때는 9연승을 하는 등 성적은 잘 나왔지만 적응을 잘못했다. (지금 생각해보면) 웅진 스타즈 때의 분위기가 제일 좋았던 것 같다"고 아쉬움을 나타냈다.
김용우 기자 kenzi@fomos.co.kr
포모스와 함께 즐기는 e스포츠, 게임 그 이상을 향해! Copyrights ⓒ FOMOS(http://www.fomos.kr) 무단 전재 및 재배포 금지
Title: "Iron Wall" Kim Min-Chul (Soulkey), "Unpaid victim since joining prior team"
September 19th, 2016
It is reported that "Iron Wall" Kim Min-Chul (Soulkey), who played for european team TCM Gaming, fell victim to being unpaid by his team.
Recently, Soulkey made an appearance on former progamer ZerO (Kim Myung-Hoon)'s stream and announced that for over five months since joining TCM gaming, he has not received his salary from the team. Soulkey left the team around June of last year and has been teamless since.
Soulkey explained, "The team didn't pay me a salary for over five months and didn't care about me. I ended up on the down-low while on the team. I originally had plans to join another team, but TCM gaming demanded a transfer fee of 2,800 pounds, which led to more frustration."
The player tried to perform his best post release of "Legacy of the Void." He played approximately 40 games a day. However, Soulkey went on to convey that he "lost his will to play as Korean players were prevented from participating in foreign tournaments."
Soulkey expressed regret by stating that, "while on SK Telecom, I adjusted to the team poorly despite having results where I was making 9 consecutive wins. (If I think about it now), the environment was best when I was on Woongjin Stars."
On September 19 2016 22:34 [Svall]Granis wrote: I really hope he gets the money and that he can find a good team who arent scumbags, i miss seeing him play
Highly doubt backpay will happen since the team no longer exists. Also, another Korean player mentioned it wasn't the only reason why Soulkey quit; it was just a influencing factor.
On September 19 2016 22:42 ReachTheSky wrote: If my employer missed even just one of my paychecks I would slam down the hammer. These kids are real pushovers these days.
If Soulkey does so, I would arrest him in no time.
Jokes aside, I know it`s a bummer but there`s nothing you can do but going bananas when foreign teams do things like that.
This is ridiculous. I've seen so many players go unpaid by their teams, it's outright terrible. I think KR players should turn down any offers to join a foreign team unless it's reputable (TL, EG et c...).
On September 19 2016 23:10 BigFan wrote: This is ridiculous. I've seen so many players go unpaid by their teams, it's outright terrible. I think KR players should turn down any offers to join a foreign team unless it's reputable (TL, EG et c...).
I think a lot of Koreans think that the foreign scene is "better" than the Korean ones while it is totally not the case.
Korean infrastructure is much better organized in all levels than foreign ones.
On September 20 2016 00:07 LongShot27 wrote: Draft a contract, read the contract, sign that contract. Breach of contract is a sue-able offense in nearly every country. Do your homework goddammit.
You mean, consulting with a bilingual solicitor who gets $5 per minute to get $4K or so?
On September 20 2016 00:07 LongShot27 wrote: Draft a contract, read the contract, sign that contract. Breach of contract is a sue-able offense in nearly every country. Do your homework goddammit.
A Korean national suing a defunct esport / marketing firm based in the UK? Okay.
On September 20 2016 00:07 LongShot27 wrote: Draft a contract, read the contract, sign that contract. Breach of contract is a sue-able offense in nearly every country. Do your homework goddammit.
Pay a lawyer for more than the amount you'd get back if you won the case.
I really feel bad for Soulkey, but lets be honest. I can't give a crap anymore. These Korean progamers should have learned their lesson from previous examples. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
On September 20 2016 00:07 LongShot27 wrote: Draft a contract, read the contract, sign that contract. Breach of contract is a sue-able offense in nearly every country. Do your homework goddammit.
You are absolutely right, however, the litigation fees/time spent usually isn't worth it. That's why it is better to just sabotage their business/reputation. They end up losing more than they stole. Now when you bring cyber crime into the mix, it can get even worse for the offenders. Players need to step it up and stop being pushovers.
On September 20 2016 00:49 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: When it happened to Hyun we were outraged. Now...
I really feel bad for Soulkey, but lets be honest. I can't give a crap anymore. These Korean progamers should have learned their lesson from previous examples. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
And this is why they win. They'll keep doing this shit because they know it's happened so many times that most of the community doesn't give a shit anymore, and because they know that the money itself might not even cover the legal fees inherent to the pro suing them.
I'm sorry, over 5 months? Did he not noticed any red flags after the first month? Not even after the second? It took five whole months for him to realize they weren't going to pay him? Seriously, I know he's young and still inexperienced, but how can anyone be that daft on these things?
Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out -- and this should go for future and current pro gamers as well. If a company does not pay you after one, or two months, speak up! Make a big deal out of it, stop being a pushover. Yes, it sucks that one or two months of salary may be lost, but at least don't stretch it out.
On September 19 2016 23:11 Waxangel wrote: Is TCM a reputable team in other esports?
TCM were huge in CoD and TF2 for a long long period of time. Heard absolutely no bad things about them in either scenes. Their owner xman was a very reputable guy.
On September 20 2016 01:33 WonnaPlay wrote: Sorry for being a bit off topic, but I think I missed the part where SK got the nickname "Walled off"? Can anyone link me this?
On-topic:
That sucks, I do remember TCM being a prominent team in CS, but don't know much about the others.
This might have been a translating/interpreting error on my part; I apologize. The nickname that's used is generally used to describe people who distance themselves from others. However, it also literally means Iron Wall. Soulkey seems to have the nickname in the Korean community because his skill was considered to be that of a different league from the other players. That's why I used the original term. However, I did more digging and it seems liquipedia has a reference to his nickname as the "Iron Wall" so I've changed it accordingly.
On September 20 2016 01:33 WonnaPlay wrote: Sorry for being a bit off topic, but I think I missed the part where SK got the nickname "Walled off"? Can anyone link me this?
On-topic:
That sucks, I do remember TCM being a prominent team in CS, but don't know much about the others.
On September 19 2016 22:34 [Svall]Granis wrote: I really hope he gets the money and that he can find a good team who arent scumbags, i miss seeing him play
On September 20 2016 01:33 WonnaPlay wrote: Sorry for being a bit off topic, but I think I missed the part where SK got the nickname "Walled off"? Can anyone link me this?
On-topic:
That sucks, I do remember TCM being a prominent team in CS, but don't know much about the others.
This might have been a translating/interpreting error on my part; I apologize. The nickname that's used is generally used to describe people who distance themselves from others. However, it also literally means Iron Wall. Soulkey seems to have the nickname in the Korean community because his skill was considered to be that of a different league from the other players. That's why I used the original term. However, I did more digging and it seems liquipedia has a reference to his nickname as the "Iron Wall" so I've changed it accordingly.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Ah, thanks for the explanation, in that case I know what it is
On September 20 2016 01:33 WonnaPlay wrote: Sorry for being a bit off topic, but I think I missed the part where SK got the nickname "Walled off"? Can anyone link me this?
On-topic:
That sucks, I do remember TCM being a prominent team in CS, but don't know much about the others.
because his skill was considered to be that of a different league from the other players.
Rather, It's a pun that came from his name and defensive play style.
I believe he got his nickname from the BW days? I never really watched his BW games much, but I'm quite a fan of his Zerg defensive style in SC2 (and just like Rain, he's somewhat underrated).
On September 20 2016 00:49 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: When it happened to Hyun we were outraged. Now...
I really feel bad for Soulkey, but lets be honest. I can't give a crap anymore. These Korean progamers should have learned their lesson from previous examples. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
And this is why they win. They'll keep doing this shit because they know it's happened so many times that most of the community doesn't give a shit anymore, and because they know that the money itself might not even cover the legal fees inherent to the pro suing them.
Who is winning?
And is it the community's responsibility to help the Korean progamers? Should I start a fundraiser trying to help all the poorly treated Korean progamers? For less than a cup of coffee you can save Soulkey's career! Please send your donations to my Paypal account. And I will put a disclaimer in very small print stating that only 5% of donations will go to helping Soulkey, the other 95% will go to administrative costs, because running a fundraiser isn't free.
Its bullshit that this stuff is happening, but I've stopped caring. My heart can only bleed so much before I die of blood loss.
I hope for the best for Soulkey, but there is literally nothing him or us can do at the moment.
That's really sad, thinking about how brilliant was his carreer before leaving SKT and now this. I hope the best for him... Going back to a KeSPA team seems the better option (unfortunatly impossible)
On September 20 2016 00:49 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: When it happened to Hyun we were outraged. Now...
I really feel bad for Soulkey, but lets be honest. I can't give a crap anymore. These Korean progamers should have learned their lesson from previous examples. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
And this is why they win. They'll keep doing this shit because they know it's happened so many times that most of the community doesn't give a shit anymore, and because they know that the money itself might not even cover the legal fees inherent to the pro suing them.
Who is winning?
Getting away with not paying people their due is a win in the crooks' book, no?
They filed for dissolution with the UK, filled out the form DS01 (form to be used if you CAN pay bills) and gave notice here which allowed 2 months time to protest the dissolution.
If you read closely, the documents state that once dissolution is final, any remaining assets go to the Crown.
The company can pay its bills (‘solvent’) You can either:
apply to get the company struck off the Register of Companies start a members’ voluntary liquidation Striking off the company is usually the cheapest way to close it.
This is what TCM filed ^
The company can’t pay its bills (‘insolvent’) When your company is insolvent, the interests of the people your company owes money to (its creditors) legally come before those of the directors or shareholders.
You must use the creditors’ voluntary liquidation process.
Your company might be forced into compulsory liquidation if you don’t pay creditors.
You may be able to avoid liquidation by applying for a Company Voluntary Arrangement.
TL;DR TCM-Gaming LTD filed for dissolution as a solvent company, the two month protest period has come and gone as the notice was filed July 12, 2016. In no way am I defending TCM-Gaming, but by the looks of these filings, there isn't anything to be done to correct the problem.
The player tried to perform his best post release of "Legacy of the Void." He played approximately 40 games a day. However, Soulkey went on to convey that he "lost his will to play as Korean players were prevented from participating in foreign tournaments."
I'm no lawyer but I suspect any decent lawyer in a western country will tell you that if you're not being paid what you're owed, the contract is void. If TCM doesn't pay Soulkey and they want to collect their buyout fee of $2800 when Soulkey wants to leave, that's just unenforceable. The contract is void so the buyout clause is void. And if the contract is written in such a way that TCM doesn't have to pay for Soulkey, then the contract is unenforceable.
Like LongShot27 said on the first page, "do your homework goddammnit". There is no way in hell TCM would've been able to enforce that.
Players union would have some advantages but until then players need to understand the basic ways in which contracts can be voided.
TLDR: If the contract says "You get paid X money for Y service" and you don't get the X money, you cannot be held liable for not delivering on Y. Fucking obviously.
The player tried to perform his best post release of "Legacy of the Void." He played approximately 40 games a day. However, Soulkey went on to convey that he "lost his will to play as Korean players were prevented from participating in foreign tournaments."
"Hello, it's Poohsik, former-staff of tcm and currently private manager of Soulkey and Myungsik. (Can I change the nick name (TCM_Poohsik)? I don't even wanna see the letter, TCM.) It is true that about 4 months' salary is owed. The team deffered paying since the January with excuses such as finding sponsors, and later they even closed the homepage. To prevent possible claiming their rights on the player, we tried to talk to them even when they didn't respond for over 2 months, and notified the revocation of the contract at last for that they failed to fulfill it, and we both are free agents since the second season. (We are keeping the conversation record for possible conflicts) The bright side is that at least the prize money is all received.
To talk about the transfer fee mentioned there, at first TCM required around 18m won (16000 USD) as it hasn't been long since they made their contract back then. But with condition with myself working for them without payment around 2 years, they lowered it to the amount(4m), but thing didn't go so smoothly because when we agreed to lower the fee to that amount, it was already the last day the other team gave us.
After WCS 2016's regional lock was announced, I was looking for Soulkey and Myounsik's return to Korean teams for their better environment after lots of discussion, we didn't even manage that TCM would be liek that. Back then they increased the support to their CoD team, and at least then the payment for us were never overdue. I think situations like this happen because almost all of foreign teams don't have Korean branch, and rarely have Korean staffs like myself, so that it's hard to have conversation with them.
And at last, please don't make fun of Myungsik. He is so professional, and a good brother of us. Even we used to tease him saying "Maybe some bad things will happen because you left us!". However, really this happened to us, and seeing him feeling upset for us, made me sorry.
I'm sorry we brought you bad news as well as last year. I don't know if it will happen, but if there's any good news, I'll tell you guys first. And I'll do do my best for it. "
I don't understand why players wait this long before saying something. As so many people have said, unless the contract is worded very suspiciously (in which case, request the wording to be changed before signing it), it should be void if he isn't receiving compensation. This buyout clause should have been irrelevant. On the other hand, I can't say I'm surprised. It's shocking how little attention to detail the Korean players tend to have when it comes to their contracts. From my experience it's: check the salary, check the travel coverage, check the term length, sign. I've had small disagreements with a couple of my players in the past because there was stuff in the contract that they just didn't even know was there because they didn't read it through properly (Stuff like having to use sponsors' gear, streaming hours, etc.). It's astounding that after all of the drama some of them still don't do their due diligence.
I heard some different story. It says once TCM and Axiom cooperate an online tournament (maybe shoutcraft?), and TCM sent soulkey as mercenary, and soulkey agreed it. The game's information is notified to soulkey two days before the first game, but when the game's time was up, soulkey is absent, and that match is automatically lose. They finally managed to find soulkey at the ace match, but he had been crushed easily that looked like he never prepared and played that map at all. In another match, same thing happened. He arrived just one minute before time out then had been crushed again for not knowing the map at all. Because of these, Axiom stopped cooperation with TCM.
I heard this story from a Chinese forum discuss this matter. I do not know whether it is true or a lie, but at least two people say the same thing over there.
You can do something, kinda. They pay those players as a form of advertising. Sponsoring Soulkey is specifically about SC2 players. Make sure its a very negative one, don't buy their stuff and remember the names of the douchebags.
pzlama333: they could fire him, not paying 5 months and even demanding a transfer fee is just ridiculous.
On September 20 2016 10:46 pzlama333 wrote: I heard some different story. It says once TCM and Axiom cooperate an online tournament (maybe shoutcraft?), and TCM sent soulkey as mercenary, and soulkey agreed it. The game's information is notified to soulkey two days before the first game, but when the game's time was up, soulkey is absent, and that match is automatically lose. They finally managed to find soulkey at the ace match, but he had been crushed easily that looked like he never prepared and played that map at all. In another match, same thing happened. He arrived just one minute before time out then had been crushed again for not knowing the map at all. Because of these, Axiom stopped cooperation with TCM.
I heard this story from a Chinese forum discuss this matter. I do not know whether it is true or a lie, but at least two people say the same thing over there.
yes this did happen, Axiom stopped ther partnership with TCM and partnered with Roccat (Hyun) instead because Soulkey wasn't taking the league seriously, but that doesnt have anything to do with the current discussion.
The player is not responsible for tcm's actions, however, the player IS responsible for allowing it to continue to happen. If at any point someone reneges on a deal, go public and trash them. Trash them so hard they crumble. If the don't crumble online, then you go in person. This approach has worked time and time again for me in various scenarios when people thought they could pull a fast one. Once you permit someone to take advantage of you, they will continue to do so because they don't have respect for you. Something about a manager working for free for two years is pathetic. Learn to operate ONLY in your best interest and you'll be much richer.
why do players sign contracts like that? Seriously, find a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer who would read the contract and see if it's fair. No protection against unpaid wages? Transfer fees?
On September 20 2016 15:12 Noonius wrote: why do players sign contracts like that? Seriously, find a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer who would read the contract and see if it's fair. No protection against unpaid wages? Transfer fees?
You act like a lawyer is cheap and that these players have hundreds of dollars just lying around, waiting for opportunities like this to be used. Most likely, Korean players looking for foreign teams would need to hire not only a lawyer, if they went about the way you're suggesting, but also a translator because I highly doubt there are Korean lawyers who speak English or German or another language just lying around as well.
Plus, it's not like it's going to take an hour to deal with all the minutia of a contract. You have to hash out compromises and whatnot, which may take days, if not longer. Again, these players don't have the luxury of hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars lying around for them to use.
Esports is the wild west. I don't see it getting heavily regulated and have oversight on it for a long time.
On a side note: Hope Soulkey doesn't completely quit SC2 and just pulls a Byun. Would love to see some of the "older" Zergs back in the scene (SK, Life (rip), DRG (rip?))
On September 20 2016 15:12 Noonius wrote: why do players sign contracts like that? Seriously, find a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer who would read the contract and see if it's fair. No protection against unpaid wages? Transfer fees?
you would hire a lawyer? I wouldn't do even if I earn 1500€ monthly. Lawyer costs always shocked me hard (in Germany).
On September 20 2016 15:12 Noonius wrote: why do players sign contracts like that? Seriously, find a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer who would read the contract and see if it's fair. No protection against unpaid wages? Transfer fees?
You act like a lawyer is cheap and that these players have hundreds of dollars just lying around, waiting for opportunities like this to be used. Most likely, Korean players looking for foreign teams would need to hire not only a lawyer, if they went about the way you're suggesting, but also a translator because I highly doubt there are Korean lawyers who speak English or German or another language just lying around as well.
Plus, it's not like it's going to take an hour to deal with all the minutia of a contract. You have to hash out compromises and whatnot, which may take days, if not longer. Again, these players don't have the luxury of hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars lying around for them to use.
Esports is the wild west. I don't see it getting heavily regulated and have oversight on it for a long time.
On a side note: Hope Soulkey doesn't completely quit SC2 and just pulls a Byun. Would love to see some of the "older" Zergs back in the scene (SK, Life (rip), DRG (rip?))
You don't hire a lawyer to engage in contract negotiations. You hire one to read and explain the contract offer presented by the team. If the team is not happy with that, then there's a high chance that the contract they offered was not fair to you in the first place. And you can find a bilingual lawyer. Or just a translator for the lawyer. Jesus Christ, you people are pretending that pro players are all some sort of infants or something.
On September 20 2016 15:12 Noonius wrote: why do players sign contracts like that? Seriously, find a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer who would read the contract and see if it's fair. No protection against unpaid wages? Transfer fees?
you would hire a lawyer? I wouldn't do even if I earn 1500€ monthly. Lawyer costs always shocked me hard (in Germany).
You don't put a lawyer on a retainer. Even a fucking paralegal can tell if the contract is up and up or not
Yea, players are insanely unprotected and it's a miracle we have the teams we have in Starcraft but even then it's not sunshine and rainbows. Some sort of player's protection is needed besides personal defense i.e. player's union. However, there probably needs to be regulation for the teams
On September 20 2016 13:51 ReachTheSky wrote: The player is not responsible for tcm's actions, however, the player IS responsible for allowing it to continue to happen. .
To me this is vastly more important than any other point. I agree with plenty of other things being said: for example it would've made sense to have a lawyer check out the contract, and that a players union would be a good thing. But the fact of the matter is if you have a job where you are supposed to get paid, you do not receive your paycheck several paychecks in a row and you just keep working for them allowing it to happen for months that is absurd. You are just allowing them to take advantage of you. Nobody would allow this to happen in a regular job, not even some 17 year old working part time at mcdonalds for the first time.
I certainly condemn TCM for not living up to their obligations, but I just can't feel sympathy for soulkey or feel any respect for him. TCM is responsible for the fact that what they did was wrong. But Soulkey is responsible for allowing it to continue.
I understand that by prohibiting Korean players to play in foreign tournament is to develop "growth" for more competitions among foreign players. However, in hindsight, this hasn't worked slightly as well as it should in reality, versus on paper. The scene isn't healthy or competitive when you take out the best players... if the NBA removed Michael Jordan or Kobe in their prime or when they're out performing everyone else it'd be absurd.
"Hello, it's Poohsik, former-staff of tcm and currently private manager of Soulkey and Myungsik. (Can I change the nick name (TCM_Poohsik)? I don't even wanna see the letter, TCM.) It is true that about 4 months' salary is owed. The team deffered paying since the January with excuses such as finding sponsors, and later they even closed the homepage. To prevent possible claiming their rights on the player, we tried to talk to them even when they didn't respond for over 2 months, and notified the revocation of the contract at last for that they failed to fulfill it, and we both are free agents since the second season. (We are keeping the conversation record for possible conflicts) The bright side is that at least the prize money is all received.
To talk about the transfer fee mentioned there, at first TCM required around 18m won (16000 USD) as it hasn't been long since they made their contract back then. But with condition with myself working for them without payment around 2 years, they lowered it to the amount(4m), but thing didn't go so smoothly because when we agreed to lower the fee to that amount, it was already the last day the other team gave us.
After WCS 2016's regional lock was announced, I was looking for Soulkey and Myounsik's return to Korean teams for their better environment after lots of discussion, we didn't even manage that TCM would be liek that. Back then they increased the support to their CoD team, and at least then the payment for us were never overdue. I think situations like this happen because almost all of foreign teams don't have Korean branch, and rarely have Korean staffs like myself, so that it's hard to have conversation with them.
And at last, please don't make fun of Myungsik. He is so professional, and a good brother of us. Even we used to tease him saying "Maybe some bad things will happen because you left us!". However, really this happened to us, and seeing him feeling upset for us, made me sorry.
I'm sorry we brought you bad news as well as last year. I don't know if it will happen, but if there's any good news, I'll tell you guys first. And I'll do do my best for it. "
I can't help but wonder how financially healthy many of those progamer teams are. The vast majority seems to rely on short-term sponsorship contracts as their main or even only source of income. Doesn't sound like a very good middle- to long term business plan to me.
I am not on anyone's side but I think there should be business style trust on Sc2 finance, I work for a team that pays foreign(to China) players, it's just oral agreement but everyone keeps their words, I feel lucky and thanks all that supported my team.
Honestly, I don't even see the point in these threads. There is nothing to be done about it considering TCM is defunct.
Sure it serves to inform us of another unfortunate Korean that was stiffed, but in all honesty we don't know the entire story. We likely never will also.
It isn't even a cautionary tale, because this shit still keeps happening. And for someone to learn from it, they would need the whole story. Even when we get the other side, the whole story is still inconsistent.
And no we aren't victim blaming, because this isn't some form of slavery or rape. In no way are any of these progamers forced to play for these teams. It is unfortunate that it happened, but the responsibility is on their shoulders too. Of course the team is responsible, but the interaction between a team and player is a two way street. Both sides need to act accordingly, and hold the other accountable.
Would a union help in this situation? Perhaps, but who will start the union? How will the union receive funds to continue? Is it feasible in the current situation? People that advocate a union is necessary won't put the effort into starting it, through no fault of their own.
Can a lawyer help? Of course, but at what stage they are employed is very important. After the fact, a lawyer will incur phenomenal fees. Could they be employed to read a contract to ensure fairness before signing? That would certainly be cheaper, but they still need to find a lawyer that can speak Korean and the language the contract is drafted. There would still be a cost.
Regardless, hearing these sad stories is losing its effect on the feels. Lets just hope the next Korean that signs a contract knows where the ground is before they jump.
On September 19 2016 22:36 OtherWorld wrote: oh, look, another player being fucked by a team what a surprise, players' union, anyone?
A players union also requires money to function, so it would mean less salary for players (even if you managed to charge the companies, its salary the players would not be getting).
The problem is the players do not get to change the contract they sign. The contract should have a clause where if a month of salary is NOT paid on time, the player can leave the team instantly with no negative repercussions for him.
I never was on a team myself but I did read 2 contracts when my team was considering having a dedicated sponsor/team. It was amazing how bad the contract was (in Spain, it was hands down illegal to even make that kind of contract).
All the risks and liabilities lied on the players side. Unfortunately, there are more players interested in a team like that than teams looking for players, and the supply-demand law applies here as well.
On September 19 2016 22:36 OtherWorld wrote: oh, look, another player being fucked by a team what a surprise, players' union, anyone?
A players union also requires money to function, so it would mean less salary for players (even if you managed to charge the companies, its salary the players would not be getting).
The problem is the players do not get to change the contract they sign. The contract should have a clause where if a month of salary is NOT paid on time, the player can leave the team instantly with no negative repercussions for him.
I never was on a team myself but I did read 2 contracts when my team was considering having a dedicated sponsor/team. It was amazing how bad the contract was (in Spain, it was hands down illegal to even make that kind of contract).
All the risks and liabilities lied on the players side. Unfortunately, there are more players interested in a team like that than teams looking for players, and the supply-demand law applies here as well.
Well of course there's a membership fee in a union. The very idea of a union is that you accept to leave some of your money to the union, so that they can use it to defend one of your fellow unionist when there's trouble - and that this money will serve to defend you in case you're in trouble. A union could also provide education for players, so that they can sign legit contracts, and would force teams into signing legit contracts.
On September 21 2016 21:34 Artunit wrote: I know the co-founder of TCM. If anyone directly involved wants his Skype ID then I'd be happy to share the information.
On September 21 2016 21:34 Artunit wrote: I know the co-founder of TCM. If anyone directly involved wants his Skype ID then I'd be happy to share the information.
It won't be too long before we have a Maury / Jerry Springer esque show with all the drama in ESports =P
On September 21 2016 21:34 Artunit wrote: I know the co-founder of TCM. If anyone directly involved wants his Skype ID then I'd be happy to share the information.
It won't be too long before we have a Maury / Jerry Springer esque show with all the drama in ESports =P
We had that. It was called Unfiltered. RIP. Seriously though, we don't need the Keemstar of eSports, for now at least.
I spoke to PoohSik, the former TCM player manager. He cleared up some of the debates surrounding this incident. Hope its ok to post the article here. http://esportsheaven.com/articles/view/5854
On September 21 2016 16:24 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Honestly, I don't even see the point in these threads. There is nothing to be done about it considering TCM is defunct.
Sure it serves to inform us of another unfortunate Korean that was stiffed, but in all honesty we don't know the entire story. We likely never will also.
It isn't even a cautionary tale, because this shit still keeps happening. And for someone to learn from it, they would need the whole story. Even when we get the other side, the whole story is still inconsistent.
And no we aren't victim blaming, because this isn't some form of slavery or rape. In no way are any of these progamers forced to play for these teams. It is unfortunate that it happened, but the responsibility is on their shoulders too. Of course the team is responsible, but the interaction between a team and player is a two way street. Both sides need to act accordingly, and hold the other accountable.
Would a union help in this situation? Perhaps, but who will start the union? How will the union receive funds to continue? Is it feasible in the current situation? People that advocate a union is necessary won't put the effort into starting it, through no fault of their own.
Can a lawyer help? Of course, but at what stage they are employed is very important. After the fact, a lawyer will incur phenomenal fees. Could they be employed to read a contract to ensure fairness before signing? That would certainly be cheaper, but they still need to find a lawyer that can speak Korean and the language the contract is drafted. There would still be a cost.
Regardless, hearing these sad stories is losing its effect on the feels. Lets just hope the next Korean that signs a contract knows where the ground is before they jump.
You're right on the first point sort of, but you don't think the conversation it sparks is worth it?
what the shit really. TCM just closing its doors without any notification what so ever to anyone. We really need to have some form of responsibility and professionalism in this. Fuck that made sad ...
On September 19 2016 21:58 dearyuna wrote: Soulkey explained, "The team didn't pay me a salary for over five months and didn't care about me. I ended up on the down-low while on the team. I originally had plans to join another team, but TCM gaming demanded a transfer fee of 2,800 pounds, which led to more frustration."
I think since he didn't get paid by them for months he shouldn't have cared about them asking for a transfer fee either and should have simply joined another team. I feel like he was being too nice to them here or maybe too scared. They basically broke the contract by not paying him, so I think he had all right to consider it void and just join another team without any fee.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/contents/article/images/2016/0919/1474262846109280.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ryj7avG.jpg)
