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On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament.
I love when bronzies think the game is about secret builds you save 3 months in advance (no I really don't love it. I get triggered by how little some people understand).
Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time.
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On September 18 2016 15:18 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 06:51 Poopi wrote:On September 18 2016 06:30 Hider wrote:On September 18 2016 05:37 Charoisaur wrote:On September 18 2016 05:02 Hider wrote:Haha didn't know shoutcraft was today. I am more meaning in a lan environment though, not a bo 1 online . Obviously Byun is the better player, but the difference isn't as big as it was 2-3 years ago. Back then even tier 2 koreans would be better than foreigners. Right now the best foreigners are "merely" underdogs against the best koreans (as opposed to being chanceless). A few upsets are definitely a possiblity. Anyway with regards to online-vs-offline. Remember that Byun made himself a name through online cups. Even though they are not 1-1 comparable, ignoring them is definitely a big mistake. If you smash the opponents online, chances are you will do similar stuff at lan. until top foreigners can consistently beat koreans offline I'm not convinced they have improved. winning single maps against top koreans was always possible, Snute beat Classic and Rain last year (even in bo3) so I don't think nerchio winning a few maps vs koreans online proves anything. And until Byun won GSL you could also not be convinced he even was a top 20 player in the world. But some stuff is more likely than other. But I am confused what you are not convinced about? I don't believe foreigners are in top 7-10 for instance, however I believe we have quite a few (between 3-5) in the top 10-30 range. And that gives us room for a lot more upsets. 2-3 years ago I wouldn't rank a single non-korean in the top 20. Stephano was top 10 in 2012.
I our heart he has always been, and always will be? 
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On September 18 2016 15:05 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 13:28 ClanWars wrote:On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament. You know what I call people who "dont perform well in online tournaments"? B+ players. Aw why did you edit it? I liked the original.
Learned from experience.
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Nerchio :D Awesome view, mate, hope you do well
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On September 18 2016 18:53 Strelok wrote:
Nerchio :D Awesome view, mate, hope you do well
EUGIN LIVES
<3
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On September 18 2016 19:40 Lgnarrow wrote:
Lilbow v 2.0 inc
That's very ignorant. Nerchio is one of the best since WoL, even a bad performance at Kespa Cup will not make any comparison between Nerchio and Lilbow possible.
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On September 18 2016 20:30 Serimek wrote:That's very ignorant. Nerchio is one of the best since WoL, even a bad performance at Kespa Cup will not make any comparison between Nerchio and Lilbow possible.
I'm not a big fan of Nerchio. But yea this guy is a dinosaur of the SC2 scene. He aint gonna leave just because of bad performance, for sure. He will probably say some bs comment though. "haha"
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On September 18 2016 20:30 Serimek wrote:That's very ignorant. Nerchio is one of the best since WoL, even a bad performance at Kespa Cup will not make any comparison between Nerchio and Lilbow possible.
at least Lilbow won 1 WCS, how about Nerchio ?
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On September 18 2016 21:44 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 20:30 Serimek wrote:On September 18 2016 19:40 Lgnarrow wrote:
Lilbow v 2.0 inc That's very ignorant. Nerchio is one of the best since WoL, even a bad performance at Kespa Cup will not make any comparison between Nerchio and Lilbow possible. at least Lilbow won 1 WCS, how about Nerchio ?
That is very true, and Lilbow was good at one point. But if I were a pro-player, I'd trade these achievements for that ones any day.
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Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time.
You must be new.. when people talk about koreans, the country of birth is not what matters, they talk about practise environments and high profile coaches. Clearly Polt Hydra and Vioelt have left those habits and their skill is much worse than before. Of course there are exceptions, like Taeja or ByuN but those are very raw talented players per sé
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France12760 Posts
On September 18 2016 15:19 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament. I love when bronzies think the game is about secret builds you save 3 months in advance (no I really don't love it. I get triggered by how little some people understand). Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time.
I don't think it's fair to judge Polt and Hydra performances from the recent WCS tourneys, since they have shown in the past that they can prepare for Blizzcon very well no matter their perceived level was before the event. Polt qualified first for the event and even though some foreigners performed better than him after that he still gained quite a lot of WCS points. Hydra was eliminated a lot of times for sure, but he secured a spot and has often been eliminated by Neeb who is quite a spectacular foreigner, I don't think there are that many foreigners that performed better than Hydra.
viOlet looked plain worse than the top foreigners for sure tho, and afaik he wasn't able to up his level of play for important tourneys so we can conclude that the top foreigners surpassed him for quite a lot of time.
Plus these three or four koreans playing in WCS were in the minority number wise, and for the first time in years it'll be the other way around and we'll have 4 foreigners in a sea of korean players, playing in Korea, it might end up ugly...
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Hahahaha always love the interesting and entertaining character that is Nerchio, good luck in the tournament!
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On September 18 2016 15:19 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament. I love when bronzies think the game is about secret builds you save 3 months in advance (no I really don't love it. I get triggered by how little some people understand). Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time.
To be fair it is the reason why 90% of KR pros never stream or compete in online tournaments. The same reason they use barcodes on the ladder, to try and hide what they're doing.
Even when they do online cups they almost always just play standard (like Maru in ShoutCraft doing nothing but drops) they don't pull out the special tactics and builds until major tournaments.
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On September 18 2016 15:15 highsis wrote:
Please please do well in offline events to prove what you say.
No sarcasm here I wanna see foreigners beating Koreans in an offline events. They did it in shoutcraft where both sides had the same disadvantages of ping, why can't they do it offline?
Because offline is a different deal. There's more money on the line and players will always save there best builds for them. Especially for Koreans who have teamhouses and coaches to help them study and prepare for each opponent they're gonna face. That's why Starleagues/proleague is considered the highest level of play, there's little chance of getting easy wins because players are so well prepared.
You saw Maru vs Nerchio in an online bo1, Maru had no clue what he was playing against and he just commited everything to drops (it looked like he was playing a ladder game), Nerchio being a smart player played defensive and got a relatively easy win. If they were playing for offline for real prize money, Maru would have reseached Nerchio's games and actually try to counter play him. Like he does to everyone in proleague.
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Nerchio is the foreign Jesus of starcraft, ready to get crucified for the sins of all foreigners.
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On September 19 2016 00:24 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2016 15:19 Hider wrote:On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament. I love when bronzies think the game is about secret builds you save 3 months in advance (no I really don't love it. I get triggered by how little some people understand). Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time. To be fair it is the reason why 90% of KR pros never stream or compete in online tournaments. The same reason they use barcodes on the ladder, to try and hide what they're doing. Even when they do online cups they almost always just play standard (like Maru in ShoutCraft doing nothing but drops) they don't pull out the special tactics and builds until major tournaments.
so what? hiding strategies is part of the entire point of strategy. imagine playing risk with your friends and telling them every single thing you're planning on doing, you'd just get slaughtered by counterplay
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On September 17 2016 23:43 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 23:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
I dont get this reasoning, you dont see NHL teams competing in SHL. You dont see Barcelona making a quick tour through eastern europe grabbing the league prize money from Ukraine, Bulgaria Romania Poland etc. How do you expect scenes to grow and foreigners to improve and try if theres no incentive for them to play?
I don't get when people on the internet compare SC2 to footie. Like bro. Any single one of the countries you mentioned has more people who play football at some level than the entire SC2 playerbase. Of course national leagues prosper in a game where most countries have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players, and even bigger numbers of people who follow it. Of course talent is fostered and grown in such an environment. This hasn't happened and won't happened in SC2 because it's a niche game in a dead genre, so it's very stupid to try to force it at the expense of literally the only country where it can and did happen, and at the expense of the best players in the world.
It has nothing to do with the amount of players. This is why the system is divided into foreigners and koreans, not Swedes french germans americans etc etc etc. Im not talking about growing talents, setting up practice houses or making sc2 into a fucking olympic sport. Im talking about giving non koreans an incentive to play the game.
Its important to have players compete on equal terms, its a completely valid econimcal standpoint.
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On September 17 2016 23:46 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2016 23:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On September 17 2016 23:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
While I do hope the foreigners put on a good show, I just don't see it happening. Yes a lot of us have a Korean bias, but it is well earned. What do you expect people to think after 10+ years of Koreans beating Foreign asses, literally to the point where big daddy blizzard had to step in and separate the two. If to be successful, you need the system to ban other players from coming in so you get money, you can't turn around and complain about Bias.....
I sincerely wish you good luck in Kespa Cup, I do hope the foreigners have gotten better and closed the gap. It sounds like you guys are training hard. It would be nice to have my Korean bias proven wrong. I dont get this reasoning, you dont see NHL teams competing in SHL. You dont see Barcelona making a quick tour through eastern europe grabbing the league prize money from Ukraine, Bulgaria Romania Poland etc. How do you expect scenes to grow and foreigners to improve and try if theres no incentive for them to play?
As for korean bias, one can look at skillfactors such as builds strats and mechanics. Unless youve been living under a rock its been pretty clear that while korean zergs have been struggling in LotV because they desperately try to keep the momentum in their matchups, foreigners accepted that you can no longer dictate the games in ZvT until hivetech, you just have to defend and play positional ZvT. However if you look at pure mechanics, sure the best korean zerg (dark) has better mechanics than foreigners. Because it's not the same system structure, that is comparing apples to oranges really. The incentive for them to play is the same as the Koreans, the money is there, just because they weren't at the time good enough to get it doesn't mean the Koreans should be banished and punished for being better. To use your analogly that would be like the NHL banishing all the playoff teams from last year from competing so the Leafs have a chance to make the playoffs.
Koreans arent banished and punished, koreans are restricted to their own region.
No that would be like NHL running a couple of years with a KHL team dominating their leagues, not even a good one at that. One of the b-teams just rushing through NHL, raking in the prize money and then going back to KHL.
But then NHL finally decided that keeping the money inside the region, as in restricting the league to canadian and american teams. This will help keep an interest in the game because now not only will the players be able to get a salary from their teams, they will also gain sponsor interest as well as prize money.
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On September 19 2016 01:10 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2016 00:24 Fango wrote:On September 18 2016 15:19 Hider wrote:On September 18 2016 10:06 ParksonVN wrote:
Korean just dont care about online tournamen,why ? They dont reveal their builds for few dollars, they play with high ping with makes pros' mechanic seems ordinary... No matter how many matches you win against Koreans in online tournament, i dont see top tier Korean lose in offline tournament. I love when bronzies think the game is about secret builds you save 3 months in advance (no I really don't love it. I get triggered by how little some people understand). Also completely ignoring that Violet, Hydra and Polt are all koreans and have been looking alot worse relatively to foreigners... And obviously that there haven't been any offline tournaments for foreigners to prove them selve for a long time. To be fair it is the reason why 90% of KR pros never stream or compete in online tournaments. The same reason they use barcodes on the ladder, to try and hide what they're doing. Even when they do online cups they almost always just play standard (like Maru in ShoutCraft doing nothing but drops) they don't pull out the special tactics and builds until major tournaments. so what? hiding strategies is part of the entire point of strategy. imagine playing risk with your friends and telling them every single thing you're planning on doing, you'd just get slaughtered by counterplay
what are you on about thats exactly what I said. Koreans barely every stream or compete online in order to hide their builds
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EPT
