On September 12 2016 00:18 FoxDog wrote: And again David kim makes big changes that adversely affects mech before even giving proper players the opportunity to test this
mech does NOT work on the testmap because you did not change air, so terran has a lot of new allins but if you let your opponnent get hive/carriers you will lose without having had a chance to counterplay and win.
if you change ravagers armored tag i would rather have the old cyclone as the new one is worthless against meaty non armored units, basically if you change the cyclone and do not add armored tag to ravager mech terran gets massively disadvantaged since the cyclone does 2 dmg per shot to "unarmored" 1 armor ravagers.
the fact nobody else points this out underlines how few proper mech players have tested the map against other proper zerg and protoss players.
For the love of god David kim, wait until the testmap comes out so you can actually learn a thing or two about why mech doesnt work so you can adress it, siege tank, land viking dmg and cyclone/bc changes do nothing pertaining to the challenges mech has always had which are broodviper infestor and carrier/tempest/templar.
If roach/ravager are armored and get wrecked by tanks and hydras are still glass cannons does that not mean that Z has to rush to hive to fight against mech (again)? Having some mid-tier units to fight mech sounds like a good idea.
On September 12 2016 00:18 FoxDog wrote: And again David kim makes big changes that adversely affects mech before even giving proper players the opportunity to test this
mech does NOT work on the testmap because you did not change air, so terran has a lot of new allins but if you let your opponnent get hive/carriers you will lose without having had a chance to counterplay and win.
if you change ravagers armored tag i would rather have the old cyclone as the new one is worthless against meaty non armored units, basically if you change the cyclone and do not add armored tag to ravager mech terran gets massively disadvantaged since the cyclone does 2 dmg per shot to "unarmored" 1 armor ravagers.
the fact nobody else points this out underlines how few proper mech players have tested the map against other proper zerg and protoss players.
For the love of god David kim, wait until the testmap comes out so you can actually learn a thing or two about why mech doesnt work so you can adress it, siege tank, land viking dmg and cyclone/bc changes do nothing pertaining to the challenges mech has always had which are broodviper infestor and carrier/tempest/templar.
If roach/ravager are armored and get wrecked by tanks and hydras are still glass cannons does that not mean that Z has to rush to hive to fight against mech (again)? Having some mid-tier units to fight mech sounds like a good idea.
We don't really know for sure, without tankivacs and buffed tanks the interaction is way different, I think this is one of the changes that needs the most testing, the difference between a few thanks shredding everything and mech being unable to hold roach/ravagers all ins at all is way too small because a little bit of a buff to RR can be huge because a zerg can get waaaay more units than mech player can get in tanks.
On September 12 2016 00:18 FoxDog wrote: And again David kim makes big changes that adversely affects mech before even giving proper players the opportunity to test this
mech does NOT work on the testmap because you did not change air, so terran has a lot of new allins but if you let your opponnent get hive/carriers you will lose without having had a chance to counterplay and win.
if you change ravagers armored tag i would rather have the old cyclone as the new one is worthless against meaty non armored units, basically if you change the cyclone and do not add armored tag to ravager mech terran gets massively disadvantaged since the cyclone does 2 dmg per shot to "unarmored" 1 armor ravagers.
the fact nobody else points this out underlines how few proper mech players have tested the map against other proper zerg and protoss players.
For the love of god David kim, wait until the testmap comes out so you can actually learn a thing or two about why mech doesnt work so you can adress it, siege tank, land viking dmg and cyclone/bc changes do nothing pertaining to the challenges mech has always had which are broodviper infestor and carrier/tempest/templar.
If roach/ravager are armored and get wrecked by tanks and hydras are still glass cannons does that not mean that Z has to rush to hive to fight against mech (again)? Having some mid-tier units to fight mech sounds like a good idea.
We don't really know for sure, without tankivacs and buffed tanks the interaction is way different, I think this is one of the changes that needs the most testing, the difference between a few thanks shredding everything and mech being unable to hold roach/ravagers all ins at all is way too small because a little bit of a buff to RR can be huge because a zerg can get waaaay more units than mech player can get in tanks.
Doesn't matter anyway, although I pretty much expect Zerg not being able to attack at all in the midgame with the new tanks and ravager nerf.
But the biggest problem is the ravager nerf in ZvP, get hyped for mass blink stalkers and 2 base immortal allins every game again.
I prefer de-nerfing the ravager than debuffing the tank. Problem with mech principally is that you can't have strong mech against protoss without it being absolutely fucking imba against zerg. Ravager being the gimmick that helps zerg have other options than camping up to t3 and rushing vipers like an idiot is, I suppose, the lesser evil in terms of design. 40-70 tanks will tri-shot ravagers, which is still nice.
On September 10 2016 02:38 Charoisaur wrote: 1 base voidray adept allin with speed voidrays I'm not hyped.
Give us Flux Vains (why basic speed) & KHAYDARIN AMULET back Why can Ghost, Medivacs, Battlecruisers, Ravens & Infestors all spellcasters (exept medivac maybe) start with more energy after an upgrade and protoss gets F***ED
I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
On September 12 2016 07:17 JackONeill wrote: I prefer de-nerfing the ravager than debuffing the tank. Problem with mech principally is that you can't have strong mech against protoss without it being absolutely fucking imba against zerg. Ravager being the gimmick that helps zerg have other options than camping up to t3 and rushing vipers like an idiot is, I suppose, the lesser evil in terms of design. 40-70 tanks will tri-shot ravagers, which is still nice.
I just think otherwise. New tanks are insanely damage effficient after all the attack speed buffs. If we also consider smartargeting, new Siege Tanks are way more OP than their BW counterpart. I think that armored Ravager with bonus HP is better. The solution to the Zerg dilemma is to make Hydras good for once, since they are light attribute. For example:
- Ravager 180HP, armored, study its balance closely. - Hydras reworked. 6 base range, DPS nerf, HP upgrade like in Coop, faster upgrades.
Regarding TvP, I'd say that many things need to happen here. Tanks would be usable if protoss mobility was crippled, or Hellions didn't use Light armor tag. Also reworking blink slightly, since Stalkers can easily blink into an area with option to attack tanks.
- Siege tank (sieged) ->14 range. Stalker 6 + blink (8)= 14. Just make blink 7 range with 8s cooldown. - Then Hellions are no longer Light, insane buff vs Adepts. Doesn't change much ZvT since Banes are not the real counter to Hellions.
On September 12 2016 07:51 VHbb wrote: I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
Well for all the other races play protoss if you want warp in your spellcasters... still you dont have a point
On September 10 2016 02:38 Charoisaur wrote: 1 base voidray adept allin with speed voidrays I'm not hyped.
Give us Flux Vains (why basic speed) & KHAYDARIN AMULET back Why can Ghost, Medivacs, Battlecruisers, Ravens & Infestors all spellcasters (exept medivac maybe) start with more energy after an upgrade and protoss gets F***ED
ghosts and medivacs don't have an energy upgrade anymore and BCs won't have it after this patch.
On September 12 2016 07:51 VHbb wrote: I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
Well for all the other races play protoss if you want warp in your spellcasters... still you dont have a point
I don't even know what you meant by that comment. Did you want to say that other races should switch to Protoss?
On September 10 2016 02:38 Charoisaur wrote: 1 base voidray adept allin with speed voidrays I'm not hyped.
Give us Flux Vains (why basic speed) & KHAYDARIN AMULET back Why can Ghost, Medivacs, Battlecruisers, Ravens & Infestors all spellcasters (exept medivac maybe) start with more energy after an upgrade and protoss gets F***ED
Because it was nerfed for a reason p could warp in Templars to solve any harassment threat further you could build pylons along attack routes and storm your opponent all the way to your base by the time they got there they were severely weekend and it was easy to stop pushes as a result. Realy it was busted plz no.
- revert all the changes and abandon the patch - remove tankivac if you want (for TvT purpose as no MU is really affected by this, it's irrelevant) - ravager nerf in any way is essential for pvz (ling bane ravager cancer) - remove "advanced ballistics" from the game - nerf adepts shields or hp for like 10 or something (just to stop the whine) - remove SH from the game - leave this game alone for 10 years.
Dear whiners (players):
- stop whining - start playing
p.s. no changes to mech or w/e will make you better.
On September 12 2016 07:51 VHbb wrote: I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
Well for all the other races play protoss if you want warp in your spellcasters... still you dont have a point
On September 12 2016 07:51 VHbb wrote: I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
Well for all the other races play protoss if you want warp in your spellcasters... still you dont have a point
So everybody should play protoss in order to balance the races and have fun. It is always interesting to see other people's points of view.
On September 12 2016 07:51 VHbb wrote: I think the reason HT don't have the energy upgrade is that you can warp them in, so you can almost instantly defend drop/aggression by warping in a storm wherever you need it.
Well for all the other races play protoss if you want warp in your spellcasters... still you dont have a point
So everybody should play protoss in order to balance the races and have fun. It is always interesting to see other people's points of view.
"If you don't like the xbox one we already have a product for you. It's called the xbox 360."
On September 10 2016 02:38 Charoisaur wrote: 1 base voidray adept allin with speed voidrays I'm not hyped.
Give us Flux Vains (why basic speed) & KHAYDARIN AMULET back Why can Ghost, Medivacs, Battlecruisers, Ravens & Infestors all spellcasters (exept medivac maybe) start with more energy after an upgrade and protoss gets F***ED
Isn't it obvious? Because High Templar have the potential to be warped in ANYWHERE on the map.
EPT
I'm not hyped.
