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On September 10 2016 08:02 MaxTa wrote:
IF ravagers are to stay unarmored, I would at least put them on Lair tech and maybe even require roach warren to mutate into an upgraded one (just like the hydralisk den mutate to unlock lurkers)
What's especially curious about this point is that Ravagers require a Lair in fucking Co-Op before they can be morphed which is really odd.
It does seem like a no brainer way to make the unit a little less threatening when it requires more tech to acquire.
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On September 10 2016 04:42 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 04:27 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Would prefer that the range of the Prism be reduced so it takes more overall baby sitting and micro to justify such an OP element on a drop ship. Still, being easier to kill is most certainly better then nothing. It can always be toned down more anyways.
Ravagers kind of need to be unarmored so they can be viable at all but I wish Corrosive Bile would be reworked, it's easy to spam and it forced out lame micro. Maybe make it better vs biological units so Roach/Hydra could be a bit stronger vs Terran where it currently sucks ass? I think the Ravager isn't being designed to it's fullest potential.
Surprised to see no cool down on the Tempest ability, seems overpowered, also the Banshee changes are, have been and will always be totally broken on this unit, remove and make it better some other way.
Hydralisks and Zealots are awesome though, Stalkers could probably use a bit of love now that hydralisks have the extra range and speed, currently Stalker balls get demolished even with blink by the new Hydralisks. I would love to see Stalkers do flat damage. They're a really cool unit to use and micro but right now they just suck. My strategy in pretty much every matchup is "build as few Stalkers as possible."
Would love to see Stalkers do something like 15(+2) flat damage and then balanced that with reduced health, and//or tie some damage buff to the Blink upgrade similar to what they did with Charge on Zealots, like their first attack out of Blink does +X damage or something (giving them a true "sniper" unit feel).
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Glad Ravager nerf got reversed, it would be useless with armored tag in ZvT and ZvP, would probably even bring back immortal allin and mass stalker bullshit.
Anyway about the baseline HP buff, it makes ZvZ so frustrating, I think the problem with banes and zerg currently is that they can't trade decent off creep at all, so please consider buffing their off creep speed instead of HP buff.
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On September 10 2016 15:25 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
Glad Ravager nerf got reversed, it would be useless with armored tag in ZvT and ZvP, would probably even bring back immortal allin and mass stalker bullshit.
Anyway about the baseline HP buff, it makes ZvZ so frustrating, I think the problem with banes and zerg currently is that they can't trade decent off creep at all, so please consider buffing their off creep speed instead of HP buff.
We need to keep saying this so Kim hears it, banelings need off speed creep buff, not HP, this change is complete fucking nonsense in the mirror and it only sucks vs Terran now because off creep they are insanely slow vs stimmed bio.
Adept also needs to be nerfed, no need for Protoss mid game to be so OP, Shade is a spam no consequence high reward/zero risk ability, Blink is much better designed imo.
Lurkers could probably be nerfed as well, in ZvZ if the other guy get's a good engage with Lurkers and you don't have double spire with 2K/2K banked for mass Mutalisk switch then its gg, they even obliterate 5/3 Ultralisks no problem.
Tempest ability is OP, Raven turret is a cancerous shit fest change from my most recent experience with mass tank Raven turtle mech, extremely resilient and Ravens in high numbers seem to counter Corruptors pretty decently, I don't have pro Korean micro so when 10 Seekers lock on I'm kind of screwed and the auto turrets are tanky as all fucking all.
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On September 10 2016 09:02 DERASTAT wrote:
Just give Zerg 4 larva injekt, than we dont need ravager or OP-Range-Queens to trade somewhat even in the earlygame, Zerg is behind in eco at the early game, so it forces us into effiecient early game, but as Zerg i wonna fix problems with mass and noth with technical units like RAvager or Queens. with the 4 larva injekt Zerg would have an earlier Eco again, and play like Zerg and not having protss fitting that mass eco low tech fast unit stlye. than we can make Ravager armored and get -1 Queen Range, we dont need better Banelings, we need more Banelinmgs(with 3 larva pls!)
I agree. At first I did not understood korean criticism, but the more I played the more I realized that this 3 larva nerf was way too big of a nerf to production rate and economy at the same time, it has nerfed all-in, timings attack, your ability to defend and macro games. You can't spare units to do runby anymore, you can't over run your opponent with superior economy, it has killed muta-ling baneling in ZvT... I really believe that the impact of this nerf had been underestimated.
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On September 10 2016 06:44 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 06:41 Vedeynevin wrote:On September 10 2016 06:37 FFW_Rude wrote:Voidray speed increased from 3.15 to 3.5
Although used a lot in lower levels, Void Rays have not seen much use in competitive play throughout LotV, so we wanted to test what the game would be like if we made them more viable.
We are targeting a speed increase to increase their capability when micro’d, while keeping them similar in lower levels of play.
Battlecruisers called. They said : "Fuck you" Because there aren't any BC changes on the test map amirite Voids are used. Not often yes but they are used. You see them in PL for example and in GSL (or SSL i forgot). When was the last time you saw a BC in a pro game ?
.....there are BC changes on the map......
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On September 10 2016 03:52 petro1987 wrote:
Are thors or vikings any good vs void rays? How is mech supposed to counter VRs? I really don't know. Any ideas?
Liberators is the answer for everything
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leave Ravagers unarmoured and nerf its HP (10 or so)
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On September 10 2016 03:53 avilo wrote:
Ravagers not being armored with tankivac removed is pretty bad. These things need to be armored they have already been too strong for ages.
It's just a massable unit with a free spell on cooldown. With buffs to infestor burrow cast on top of this...i mean that's just really bad and poorly thought out.
What if Corrosive Bile got a damage nerf to counteract this?
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On September 10 2016 07:59 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
People forget how important is the ravager in ZvP
Mass Stalker and Sentry or Immortal all in.
Who wants to go back to old ZvP ?
NO ONE !
Its true that the Ravager is a massive band aid for Zerg tho.
The real fact is that Zerg needs a new early unit , something that can deal with hard harassment and dumb all ins.
This is why i would like a redesign for SH, the unit could be usefull to harass and defend in the early game if they thinker with the locusts and their HP and the speed of the SH.
I'd like to see the Swarm Host removed and the Lurker Den upgrade time reduced. Somehow, I think Lurkers could be the big answer to making ZvP more bearable, but they take so long to come out that you can only really use them in the late game.
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On September 10 2016 10:03 Jaedrik wrote:While we're at it, can we get community-driven matchmaking so we can have Starbow matchmaking? 
The Eros client already exists...
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On September 11 2016 00:56 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 07:59 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
People forget how important is the ravager in ZvP
Mass Stalker and Sentry or Immortal all in.
Who wants to go back to old ZvP ?
NO ONE !
Its true that the Ravager is a massive band aid for Zerg tho.
The real fact is that Zerg needs a new early unit , something that can deal with hard harassment and dumb all ins.
This is why i would like a redesign for SH, the unit could be usefull to harass and defend in the early game if they thinker with the locusts and their HP and the speed of the SH. I'd like to see the Swarm Host removed and the Lurker Den upgrade time reduced. Somehow, I think Lurkers could be the big answer to making ZvP more bearable, but they take so long to come out that you can only really use them in the late game.
Then you will have P complaining about Lurker rush.
They did it last time because its to hard to build Disruptor..
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On September 11 2016 01:01 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 10:03 Jaedrik wrote:While we're at it, can we get community-driven matchmaking so we can have Starbow matchmaking? The Eros client already exists...
Until we are allowed and sanctioned in-game matchmaking with only as many hoops as normal matchmaking, it will be insufficient. I'd even go so far as to say that, until we have LAN and private servers allowed, it is insufficient and unjust.
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Please...just make it so hydras don't get one shot by liberators and tanks...just give them like 5-10 more HP and we can finally use them in ZvT without needing 10 trillion vipers...
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On September 11 2016 00:56 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 07:59 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
People forget how important is the ravager in ZvP
Mass Stalker and Sentry or Immortal all in.
Who wants to go back to old ZvP ?
NO ONE !
Its true that the Ravager is a massive band aid for Zerg tho.
The real fact is that Zerg needs a new early unit , something that can deal with hard harassment and dumb all ins.
This is why i would like a redesign for SH, the unit could be usefull to harass and defend in the early game if they thinker with the locusts and their HP and the speed of the SH. I'd like to see the Swarm Host removed and the Lurker Den upgrade time reduced. Somehow, I think Lurkers could be the big answer to making ZvP more bearable, but they take so long to come out that you can only really use them in the late game.
Uhm...with a 4:30 lair you can have lurkers morphing in by 7:30 for a timing attack...just upgrade before hydra range and don't delay getting your den.
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On September 10 2016 14:01 Skyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 04:42 DinoMight wrote:On September 10 2016 04:27 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Would prefer that the range of the Prism be reduced so it takes more overall baby sitting and micro to justify such an OP element on a drop ship. Still, being easier to kill is most certainly better then nothing. It can always be toned down more anyways.
Ravagers kind of need to be unarmored so they can be viable at all but I wish Corrosive Bile would be reworked, it's easy to spam and it forced out lame micro. Maybe make it better vs biological units so Roach/Hydra could be a bit stronger vs Terran where it currently sucks ass? I think the Ravager isn't being designed to it's fullest potential.
Surprised to see no cool down on the Tempest ability, seems overpowered, also the Banshee changes are, have been and will always be totally broken on this unit, remove and make it better some other way.
Hydralisks and Zealots are awesome though, Stalkers could probably use a bit of love now that hydralisks have the extra range and speed, currently Stalker balls get demolished even with blink by the new Hydralisks. I would love to see Stalkers do flat damage. They're a really cool unit to use and micro but right now they just suck. My strategy in pretty much every matchup is "build as few Stalkers as possible." Would love to see Stalkers do something like 15(+2) flat damage and then balanced that with reduced health, and//or tie some damage buff to the Blink upgrade similar to what they did with Charge on Zealots, like their first attack out of Blink does +X damage or something (giving them a true "sniper" unit feel).
this plus 30dmg back for initial charge hit, I might actually play toss again. In the meantime, more rotisserie liberator chicken
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Make Lurker's attack more visible SERIOUSLY
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and please change that colossus skin that looks exactly like hallucinated if someone ever reads here
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And again David kim makes big changes that adversely affects mech before even giving proper players the opportunity to test this
mech does NOT work on the testmap because you did not change air, so terran has a lot of new allins but if you let your opponnent get hive/carriers you will lose without having had a chance to counterplay and win.
if you change ravagers armored tag i would rather have the old cyclone as the new one is worthless against meaty non armored units, basically if you change the cyclone and do not add armored tag to ravager mech terran gets massively disadvantaged since the cyclone does 2 dmg per shot to "unarmored" 1 armor ravagers.
the fact nobody else points this out underlines how few proper mech players have tested the map against other proper zerg and protoss players.
For the love of god David kim, wait until the testmap comes out so you can actually learn a thing or two about why mech doesnt work so you can adress it, siege tank, land viking dmg and cyclone/bc changes do nothing pertaining to the challenges mech has always had which are broodviper infestor and carrier/tempest/templar.
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EPT
