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On September 10 2016 04:27 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Ravagers kind of need to be unarmored so they can be viable at all but I wish Corrosive Bile would be reworked, it's easy to spam and it forced out lame micro. Maybe make it better vs biological units so Roach/Hydra could be a bit stronger vs Terran where it currently sucks ass? I think the Ravager isn't being designed to it's fullest potential.
It's also still too strong against buildings. I'd really like to see the damage reduced to 35 (thus increasing the shots needed to kill a tank from 3 to 5), in exchange for a radius increase, which will make it overall stronger against bio, making it easier to hit quick-moving air units, and reducing its efficacy against wall-ins and stationary units such as Lurkers, Liberators, and the aforementioned Siege Tank. That having been said, I'm not sure that 35 is the best number. I feel that it needs to safely 4-shot Mutalisks, but maybe I'm overstating the need for that, considering that doing so is only relevant in cases where the Mutas are caught by Fungal Growth, which would reduce the 4-shot damage threshold to 23 - though that seems excessively low. Additionally, I feel that its strength vs Liberators is a positive thing. Perhaps it would be acceptable to 4-shot Liberators, but nothing worse.
In that example case, I could see the damage be tolerable to be as low as 45, still 4-shotting Liberators, no longer 1-shotting unstimmed Marines in the mid- and late-game, and at least taking 1 more shot to kill a sieged Tank. I agree with the notion that the Ravager should be slightly de-emphasized as a core unit in all 3 matchups, but I actually really do enjoy its specific use to break sieged positions. In exchange for the damage nerf and the armor class nerf, I would be very enthused to see the return, in the form of a very late game upgrade to bring their range to 13, as was experimented with in the LotV beta. This upgrade was not given the proper chance for a good test, given that it was under conditions in which Ravager's bile shot damage was too high for such a range to be appropriate in conjunction with their cost and ease of obtaining.
Surprised to see no cool down on the Tempest ability, seems overpowered, also the Banshee changes are, have been and will always be totally broken on this unit, remove and make it better some other way.
I wasn't amazed with that ability, as I think it's too limited in its role of the specific uses of forcing Tanks to unsiege and Lurkers to unburrow by the need to not make its ability to threaten workers overpowered. It needs to have a wider radius in order to have more overall utility, but this would make it a nightmare on harass that cannot really be countered.
Therefore, I propose that the Tempest ability be altered such that it does not affect hovering units. This will go largely unchanged, except in the case of threatening worker lines. Yes, it won't affect Archons or High Templar either, but I do not see this as being a serious drawback, but rather a very minor quirk.
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All these years I saw a lot of good ideas on the foruns, but almost none of them implemented on the game. And I'm not being sarcastic, sadly :\
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On September 13 2016 06:20 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Additionally, I feel that its strength vs Liberators is a positive thing. Perhaps it would be acceptable to 4-shot Liberators, but nothing worse.
If libs are the problem they could always adress libs directly by reducing their HP directly perhaps buffing the lib in some other way.
I don't know if libs dying in 4 or more ravager shots considering that they have other counter (spores for the harass, corruptor/viper for lategame, queens and infestors somewhere in between) but its something that could be tested for sure to see how it affects the interactions in the MU (altough a nerf like this to the lib may be too big in TvP)
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After playing few games on the test map on NA, and while being a huge mech enthousiast, I have to point out that :
The shift from AA to AG for the cyclone, the tank buff and the raven buff make TvT a huge campfest where the goal is to mass the most raven possible just like late HOTS.
Since you need to invest much less money into tanks to secure bases, and that ground mech units are very bad against air once again, nothing prevents one player from going straight to air after securing 3 bases. Air domination solely relies on viking count which in turn makes the liberator and the PDD extremely powerfull. Which leads to spamming turrets with few tanks, and massing air directly.
The turret buff is way too strong and makes raven massable very early in the game. Liberators are in a much better place.
However the cyclone's focus needs to be shifted from AG to AA, so that cyclone as a mech footman prevents the opponent from going air too fast.
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After having played some games on the new matchmaking, all I can say is Cyclones are WAY too strong on ground... I suggest lowering their attack speed to something like 0.3 instead of 0.07 because every protoss units dies almost instantly agaisn't them...
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New match making is great, this should have been implemented years ago so better feedback can be given on actual play and not mere theory crafting. I've been playing nothing but balance customs and now I got about 5 ZvT 3 ZvP and 3 ZvZ with the match maker to judge off of so great move to the team for implementing the que.
Zerg
1) New Hydralisks are fantastic, they completely annihilate Stalkers without mercy and far much much better against the dreaded Immortal/Archon comps simply because you can micro them to greater effect with greater range. This is the buff the Hydralisk needed if the team didn't want to go down the extra HP/extra armor path.
2. Ravagers are still too good against immobile things making mech permanently suck (see called, "The Immortal Efffect") and totally sucks vs things that can move faster then a siege Tank. Someone on here posted a great change to decrease damage but increase radius.
3) Infestors are really good now but I worry that they might be OP vs bio, wonder if just making Fungal hit harder and buffing IT back would be appropriate?
Terran
1) The new Cyclone is better designed in general but is still shitty vs the one thing that mech sucks against (besides Immortals of course) is air compositions and mech having no quick, easy to field reliable anti - air. Mech is already powerful as fuck against ground comps so I'm hoping they tune the new Cyclone to be better vs air units and worse vs ground because they are overpowered in Hellbat allins for ZvT and imba in general against Gateway units for Protoss
2) New Siege Tank is excellent, keep this change, no more medivac crap, the Siege Tank needs to be good at it's intended job which is holding ground
3) For the love of God please revert the stupid fucking auto turret buff, you have a flock of Ravens and it is just so so cancerous to fight, Seeker Missiles annihilate Corruptor flocks and borderline anything they target and dropping so many turrets in bases that last so damn long and are so tanky is just retarded OP, it's like a million flying Gazlowe's dropping death turrets on everything FOR MANA. Buff this unit some other way so cancer turtle sky mech doesn't become the new meta, if it does I promise you ZvT will go from the premier Starcraft 2 match up to the worst by far.
Protoss
1) New Tempest much less cancer but the duration on the web thing is overpowered
2) New Zealots are amazing, definitely a great boost for gateway comps, but the Adept and Zealot being so strong makes the Stalker look pathetically weak in comparison, especially with how hard Hydralisks smash them down in head to head fights.
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Everything gets faster.
More possible cheeses
More hectic more frustration. Well after trying hard to get good at this game and win with better skills while getting cheesed or surprised by something out of the protoss bullshit, I am tired of this game.
I hope the BW "HD" Update isn't just a rumor.
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These changes are not in the live matchmaking version, did they forgot to add them or whey there just considering the changes?
This post isn't very clear.
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The test mode doesn't interest protoss players.This is understandable cause they got least change and their units got indirectly nerfed.
Couldn't find a single protoss today....
Stalkers are literally old siege tanks.Too much counter for them,they really need a pass.
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On September 10 2016 03:07 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
Thor needs to be smaller and faster, better AA as Factory unit.
Just bring back Goliath, which in addition has beautiful rocket volleys and some charisma.
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On September 14 2016 11:20 seopthi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 03:07 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
Thor needs to be smaller and faster, better AA as Factory unit.
Just bring back Goliath, which in addition has beautiful rocket volleys and some charisma.
I guess they are just too stubborn to do it. If you think a little about it, the viking is almost a goliath that has to transform between modes and fly =D.
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oh it would be nice if the viking would transform into goliath with nice ranged AA
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I think the cyclone should simply be versatile but not a huge damage dealer, and his movespeed increased a little. For instance, make the cyclone
- deal 200 damage over 10 seconds with lock, 7 lock on range, 15 max range, targets air and ground
- deal 3 (+3 vs armored) damage every 0,1 seconds with its auto attack (same animation than now) that targets air and ground. It means 30(+30) dps instead of 42 (+42) dps, compared to the AG we have now.
- movespeed increased a little
This way the cyclone will see his versatility increased a lot. It can be good AA, but it can sacrifice some of his DPS (20 dps with the lock, 30 (+30 vs armored) dps without) to chase other units and combo well with the hellion again.
The cyclone needs to be a versatile mech footman that can :
- take decent skirmishes in few numbers
- poke/chase ennemy units in combo with the hellion, but in exchange for a dps reduction
- limit the opponent's ability to go straight into air
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On September 14 2016 18:57 bela.mervado wrote:
oh it would be nice if the viking would transform into goliath with nice ranged AA
Maybe I didn't explain what I meant pretty well. The goliath is a viking that doesn't need to transform to use both attacks and doesn't fly. I guess that's why they never wanted to put the goliath in the game. The overlap in design would be huge, and they can't admit BW's design was better in that department at least.
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On September 14 2016 19:16 JackONeill wrote:
I think the cyclone should simply be versatile but not a huge damage dealer, and his movespeed increased a little. For instance, make the cyclone
- deal 200 damage over 10 seconds with lock, 7 lock on range, 15 max range, targets air and ground
- deal 3 (+3 vs armored) damage every 0,1 seconds with its auto attack (same animation than now) that targets air and ground. It means 30(+30) dps instead of 42 (+42) dps, compared to the AG we have now.
- movespeed increased a little
This way the cyclone will see his versatility increased a lot. It can be good AA, but it can sacrifice some of his DPS (20 dps with the lock, 30 (+30 vs armored) dps without) to chase other units and combo well with the hellion again.
The cyclone needs to be a versatile mech footman that can :
- take decent skirmishes in few numbers
- poke/chase ennemy units in combo with the hellion, but in exchange for a dps reduction
- limit the opponent's ability to go straight into air
I like this idea a lot. It's pretty much the role the goliath has in BW. It's decent G2G (not great, but decent), and good G2A. An allround OK unit, not a unit with a niche role.
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I think this whole lock mechanism is just a detriment to the design of the cyclone as a unit as a whole.
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On September 14 2016 20:44 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2016 19:16 JackONeill wrote:
I think the cyclone should simply be versatile but not a huge damage dealer, and his movespeed increased a little. For instance, make the cyclone
- deal 200 damage over 10 seconds with lock, 7 lock on range, 15 max range, targets air and ground
- deal 3 (+3 vs armored) damage every 0,1 seconds with its auto attack (same animation than now) that targets air and ground. It means 30(+30) dps instead of 42 (+42) dps, compared to the AG we have now.
- movespeed increased a little
This way the cyclone will see his versatility increased a lot. It can be good AA, but it can sacrifice some of his DPS (20 dps with the lock, 30 (+30 vs armored) dps without) to chase other units and combo well with the hellion again.
The cyclone needs to be a versatile mech footman that can :
- take decent skirmishes in few numbers
- poke/chase ennemy units in combo with the hellion, but in exchange for a dps reduction
- limit the opponent's ability to go straight into air I like this idea a lot. It's pretty much the role the goliath has in BW. It's decent G2G (not great, but decent), and good G2A. An allround OK unit, not a unit with a niche role.
It also give mech a role that was somewhat lacking in BW : chasing power. Interactions between mech and most of other late game armies rely on siege air units over ranging mech units, forcing the mech player to unsiege and engage, which is suicidal because the opponent will simply kite, or camp with a huge amount of turret and an overreliance on gimmicky spells (raven/ghost). Of course, at some point in the game, the mech player is forced into the second option.
Giving mech chasing power will give the ability to mech to "take fights" against late game armies, and not be kited to death, or at least to trade during the kite. Which, as a whole, will encourage mech player to camp less and to produce and trade more, mainly because chasing power diminishes the frontal strength of mech : if you build 20 supply of cyclones to take fights against protoss and then chase kiting tempest, you don't have 20 supply of thors or tanks that would be much stronger at camping.
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Mech did not need chasing power lmao. The entire premise of mech in BW is supposed to be that it's slow and it gets ENTRENCHED in a position.
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you guys are aware that blizzard wont read the replies that are posted here right? post it on battle.net forums.
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EPT
