EPTBan the top 5 competitors from a top 10 competition just so 11-15 can also have a chance. Does that make sense to you? It doesnt to me. Completely nullifies the purpose of the tournament. It's fine to have ALL regions seperately locked, like earlier mentioned WCS EU, WCS NA, WCS Oceania etc. but the whole world is invited except korea? come on.
uThermal sounds off on WCS "If you’re stuck in the Ro32 be…
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
QzYSc2
Netherlands281 Posts
Ban the top 5 competitors from a top 10 competition just so 11-15 can also have a chance. Does that make sense to you? It doesnt to me. Completely nullifies the purpose of the tournament. It's fine to have ALL regions seperately locked, like earlier mentioned WCS EU, WCS NA, WCS Oceania etc. but the whole world is invited except korea? come on. | ||
|
Brutaxilos
United States2622 Posts
On August 28 2016 17:34 dizzy101 wrote: These absolutist, anti-foreigner arguments are so dumb. "I only want to see the best in the world, screw foreigners". As if these people watch every obscure Korean-vs-obscure Korean match. They don't. Part of the reason the SC2 viewership deflated like a balloon in 2013-14 was that no-name Koreans with zero backstory came to dominate the tournament scene. Fly in, win, take money, go back... and the tournament has no story to tell because nobody's invested. I honestly don't understand this sentiment that Koreans "take [foreigner] money". On Reddit people even went so far as to suggest that Koreans steal money from the foreigner scene. How is it stealing to win fairly? Also I will ask again. Who exactly are these obscure Koreans you speak of? At this point Korean players are much more well known than foreigner players. I can barely remember who Uthermal is, nor do I know anything about his personality or nationality. If anything, its faceless foreigners like Shadown and Cham who are taking money from Korean players with WCS. | ||
|
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
| ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
| ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 29 2016 00:39 MaCRo.gg wrote: What is the reason that the foreign players NEED to be around at all for sc2 scene? There are enough NOT racist folks watching for the quality of the plays and players. All this posturing is just a thin excuse for RACISM. Its obviously not racism, otherwise koreans would be banned from international events based on their ethnicity, Masa is competing in international events and he is korean as far as Im aware | ||
|
adamhu10
4 Posts
Winning in D-League bball is better than losing in the NBA? Not motivated to practice because you're going to lose? Koreans don't have extra hands or fingers or a bigger brain. Maybe if a foreigner practiced that much and that hard consistently, they would be able to beat a Korean. If this nobody - and anyone who isn't in at least code A of SSL or GSL is a nobody - is right about foreigner's attitudes towards practice, it would go a long way in explaining why Koreans dominate. | ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
| ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On August 29 2016 01:04 Brutaxilos wrote: I honestly don't understand this sentiment that Koreans "take [foreigner] money". On Reddit people even went so far as to suggest that Koreans steal money from the foreigner scene. How is it stealing to win fairly? Also I will ask again. Who exactly are these obscure Koreans you speak of? At this point Korean players are much more well known than foreigner players. I can barely remember who Uthermal is, nor do I know anything about his personality or nationality. If anything, its faceless foreigners like Shadown and Cham who are taking money from Korean players with WCS. Well said, my man, well said. Anyway, this thread is pointless dithering at this point, can't say more than that. I just want to recap a few points, just want to clarify a few of my opinions: - There is nothing wrong regional tournaments, - There is something wrong with blocking out EVERY SINGLE international, open events from Korean players, - Koreans are neither obscure, nor faceless, nor robots. They're human beings like the rest of us and the sentiment that we should be tired of watching them because they're Korean instead of white people is borderline racist, - Koreans are "better" than foreigners, I think there's a consensus on that one. Some people are saying because they have better infrastructure and practice, others say work ethic, etc. - I say, who gives a shit about that, what we want is open, international events where the only requirement necessary to play is not the color of your skin, the country on your passport or whatever strange criteria you want, but the fact that you play Starcraft. Also: fuck the ded gaem circlejerk, keep that out of this thread foreigners with bad results who say that their bad results are due to reasons beyond their control are bluntly silly and not competitive. that those same foreigners say that THEY are entitled to making a living playing starcraft and that Koreans are nott, is absolute horse-shit | ||
|
Fliparoni
205 Posts
On August 29 2016 01:04 Brutaxilos wrote: Also I will ask again. Who exactly are these obscure Koreans you speak of? At this point Korean players are much more well known than foreigner players. I can barely remember who Uthermal is, nor do I know anything about his personality or nationality. If anything, its faceless foreigners like Shadown and Cham who are taking money from Korean players with WCS. This so much. Uthermal who? Showtime? Besides a couple of big names like Scarlett and Stephano, etc, the majority of famous sc2 progamers that i know and follow are korean. | ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
| ||
|
Liveon
Netherlands1083 Posts
On August 29 2016 02:21 Fliparoni wrote: This so much. Uthermal who? Showtime? Besides a couple of big names like Scarlett and Stephano, etc, the majority of famous sc2 progamers that i know and follow are korean. This is all out of personal interest. I follow the EU scene so I know all EU progamers. Seeing Elazer getting better and getting results is awesome since I know him from before he was even GM. Everyone has passion for sc2 but for different parts. My favourites are EU players, your favourites are KR players, nothing wrong with either of those. | ||
|
Fliparoni
205 Posts
On August 29 2016 02:25 ROOTFayth wrote: do any of you who follow the koreans and dont know much about the foreigner scene even play starcraft at all? beside the occasional Arcade game Yes i play pretty much eveyrday or however much my work schedule permits. I will admit though that i gave up on 1v1 since HOTS and vast majority of my games are team games nowadays. Im not a 1v1 balance whiner mind you. I just simply enjoy team games with my friends much more. | ||
|
Brutaxilos
United States2622 Posts
On August 29 2016 02:25 ROOTFayth wrote: do any of you who follow the koreans and dont know much about the foreigner scene even play starcraft at all? beside the occasional Arcade game I would actually ask the exact opposite. Do those who follow the foreigners but not the Koreans, actually follow Starcraft at all? Foreigners were pretty much obsolete 2013-2015 so what exactly were you following/watching during those years? | ||
|
Parrek
United States893 Posts
On August 29 2016 02:21 Fliparoni wrote: This so much. Uthermal who? Showtime? Besides a couple of big names like Scarlett and Stephano, etc, the majority of famous sc2 progamers that i know and follow are korean. Just because you don't know the foreign players doesn't mean no one does. Personally, I don't know much about herO or Hero or Parting and Classic or Dark and Rogue. I know the names, but not much else. I know more about Byun because he is the online hero who actually speaks some english and respects the top of the foreign scene. We also hear about him more outside of games like when he posted on a Koeran forum how he barely beat Snute and Nerchio makes him shake. I know about the foreign scene because they're on TL (getting a response from Nerchio or uThermal or Drogo in a live report thread is awesome), Twitter, Reddit, etc. and a bunch of them post plenty and smack talk, complain, compliment each other, help other players out (Harstem was on the Protoss help me thread), feel down and crushed, happy and excited, and any other emotion. It's not that Koreans don't feel any of that, of course they do, but we almost never hear about it. They're not posting in forums in any language, they're not on Twitter, they don't stream, and they largely just practice in the team house and disappear except for events. | ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 29 2016 04:05 Brutaxilos wrote: I would actually ask the exact opposite. Do those who follow the foreigners but not the Koreans, actually follow Starcraft at all? Foreigners were pretty much obsolete 2013-2015 so what exactly were you following/watching during those years? I dunno man I dont build my schedule around korean timezone.... and whenever I was up and looking to see if there was something interesting going on on SC2 it was always mainly foreigners competing I still know more about the korean scene than this guy seems to know about the foreigner scene but it is mostly from what I read Also guy above me pretty much nailed it, no idea how you can relate to most koreans we dont hear much about except their GSL results | ||
|
Parrek
United States893 Posts
On August 29 2016 04:05 Brutaxilos wrote: I would actually ask the exact opposite. Do those who follow the foreigners but not the Koreans, actually follow Starcraft at all? Foreigners were pretty much obsolete 2013-2015 so what exactly were you following/watching during those years? I watched and cheered for my favorite foreigners back then, mainly Snute and Scarlett, and I watched the Koreans because nothing else was on. With the exception of Jaedong, MC, Taeja, and sometimes Life and $o$, I recognized names and some recent results, but knew next to nothing about the players themselves. Sure they played great and I recognized the difference between players and sometimes their playstyles, but her0 beating Snute or Parting vs Classic or something like that didn't give me nearly the nerd chills and excitement or just plain laughter as watching someone like Neeb play and hold an attack by the skin of his teeth or completely wreck Hydra for the 3rd time or destroy Nerchio with Carriers or Snute finally make a finals against Polt and overcome his mental block and tilt for that one day and play one of his best series under the most pressure he could be under, despite losing, or uThermal actually get past his tilt in the last half of the year and play some damn good Starcraft, or Drogo's fall and slow climb and watching his disappointment and fears manifest in game with his obvious frustration and sadness and even on Twitter as well and then, at the end of the year showing some of his best and most impressive play and just barely failing to qualify for Copa Intercontinental, then beat Nerchio 4-3 in WCA with some incredible prism micro (Go check out game 7 of that series on BTTV Youtube. Fantastic micro when it mattered most), or Scarlett's return and rise and seeing her, Neeb, and noRegret (Noregret isn't that good or a player, but he's a cool guy in the vlogs) live in Korea together and create content, and I could keep on going on, but I'll leave it here. So yeah, I watched Koreans, but I wasn't nearly as invested or cared as much about the majority of the scene. I didn't care about so0's Kong line or Life winning the first GSL of 2015, or Innovation, or Zest, or most of the Koreans back in 2013, but Jaedong. | ||
|
Parrek
United States893 Posts
On August 28 2016 23:00 Elentos wrote: But those are the same things that cause you to lose no matter who you play against. So in the end what you're implying is that if a foreign pro loses to a Korean pro they either think they did nothing wrong, they can't see what they did wrong or they don't think it matters what they did wrong. All of those things would be very bad. Losing to Parting in the Ro32 doesn't teach you as much about how you play under pressure. Being at an event is very different from being at an event on a main stage with serious money on the line. Also, the Korean reputation is very prevalent and did have an effect on foreigners. We had the famous full foreigner moments because players would gain a significant lead, and then they would throw it because the pressure was on. They were well aware of their advantage, but they weren't used to playing under that pressure against one of the best in the world who they barely believed they could beat themselves because of 4+ years of history of losing. However, losing to Nerchio in the Ro4 could teach you how you think under pressure, and, because you believe you can beat him, you're much more confident in your play and are much closer to full power and we've seen foreign throws drop significantly even against Koreans online because they're not making the same dumb mistakes as before and are learning. | ||
|
aeligos
United States172 Posts
At any rate, if you're good, then good. If you're bad then study avilo builds to get good. It's the only way. | ||
|
Pippah
Denmark353 Posts
On August 27 2016 06:04 DomeGetta wrote: Wow - sorry but can't disagree with this more. To make the argument that lowering the bar for competition makes players better is altruistic delusion. I can understand the point of no Koreans makes for more motivation which can lead to more practice and getting better -but then let's put the blame on the individuals who are actually responsible for you not getting better (you!) not the better players who are knocking you out of tournaments via their hard work and dedication - I can't think of a single example where nerfing competition has actually produced a stronger evolution in any facet of reality. We should just be open and honest about the situation and call the current WCS what it is - the B league - and the salaries and prize pools should scale down with it. It's ridiculous how many pro Kr players who have put in insane hours and work over the last 5 years have been forced into retirement because we've decided to create the WCS welfare program. Sorry for you guys..but since you, just like the rest of the WCS field - can't compete with the best in Korea - you're sol..but for the rest of the world we're going to glorify you and have you make a living off it. Of course what Harstem said pissed all of them off - but at least he had the balls to be honest - and my respect for him has grown tremendously based on that - it's not easy to admit something to the public that has the potential to negatively influence you financially - huge props to him for understanding the difference between wealth and value - that type of mentality will help him for the rest of his life in whatever endeavors he decides to take on. lol honestly the more I read this I can't help but feel the interviewer was setting him up - like even the headline!? "if you lose to koreans...you can't get bettter...!" I feel like if he re-read that statement even one time he'd have been like... wait a minute.. that sounds absolutely fucking insane.. please don't post that! LOL what planet is this??! This. I have almost completly stopped watcing SC2. The region locks makes it super boring. The term "the b-league" fits extraordinarily well | ||
|
Brutaxilos
United States2622 Posts
Do you guys follow soccer/football either? Do you not realize that Messi literally doesn't speak English? If you can't empathize with another person simply because you don't speak their language, then I'm sorry, I think you have some social problems. | ||
| ||
