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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On August 17 2016 08:04 royalroadweed wrote: Holy shit infestors. Mind control with that range from a cloaked unit looked way too powerful. If they're gonna keep it at that strength, they should just nerf the spell to use 200 energy or something. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16692 Posts
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
For example: Thor single-shot mode is powerful. One overwhelming problem, however, is being able to get the Thor into position to fire at, say, BroodLords and/or Corruptors. The maps general design is so much cul-de-sacs that there is no way to position many (too many) units properly so as to use their abilities. One example is while, say Terran bio and tanks are destroying a Hatchery, the Zerg comes to defend its base with lings, roaches, and then its Tier 3 air units. Well, there is not enough room for everything. The maps are cramped to such a degree that there is no way to fire at Zerg's air because Thor can't fit alongside the other half of the army. I feel frustrated by the effort and time into balancing, yet much of the solution would lay in new map designs. Open areas are so fun as they allow a real head-to-head opportunity between armies. Each player can micro accordingly, allowing the units' full functionality to be seen. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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Pugfarmer
70 Posts
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1074 Posts
CYCLONE: feels like a unit you want to make all game as a mech player. cyclone/hellion/mine synergy is very strong and fun to play. initially, the unit felt weaker because of the loss of lock-on damage. but when you factor in the reliable ground-to-ground weapon, reduced supply, reactor production and their incredible speed, they are truly part of the core mech army now. they feel strong in medium numbers and with 2/2 upgrades. I like that lock-on vs air is manual cast because you're constantly on your guard against banshees and voids, which will always get the first shot off unless you're fast. I also like that you have to be vigilant of zealot bombing and warp prisms messing with your tank lines. TANKS: should have got this change long ago. tanks are tanks again. BANSHEES: they feel stronger in TvP now, thanks to the speed upgrade being available. I haven't tried making more than 3 or 4, but needless to say they survive a lot longer and aren't just suicide units anymore. even if toss has blink/obs, you can bring them back home for repair, then go back out on the map with speed. they are great for map control. if you want a bit of information fast, like if toss has a third base (or ninja base), or you want to scout tech buildings, you can save scans and simply fly your speed banshee in for a look. they are slightly better for opening vT now that cyclone's don't have auto lock-on. BUILDS: reactor/factory, double reactor/factory builds are very strong. the combination of speedy units like hellion/cyclone/mine allows you to take map control and put on pressure. reactor cyclones gives terran more of a chance to defend bullshit like proxy oracle, where if you don't have exactly 6 marines you'll suffer tremendous damage. overall, it gives terran more options when defending rushes, and more options for counter-attacking. mech looks like it's in a good spot now. NICE ONE BLIZZ! | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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petro1987
Brazil374 Posts
On August 17 2016 10:12 SHODAN wrote: so far I've played TvP and TvT. here are my thoughts: CYCLONE: feels like a unit you want to make all game as a mech player. cyclone/hellion/mine synergy is very strong and fun to play. initially, the unit felt weaker because of the loss of lock-on damage. but when you factor in the reliable ground-to-ground weapon, reduced supply, reactor production and their incredible speed, they are truly part of the core mech army now. they feel strong in medium numbers and with 2/2 upgrades. I like that lock-on vs air is manual cast because you're constantly on your guard against banshees and voids, which will always get the first shot off unless you're fast. I also like that you have to be vigilant of zealot bombing and warp prisms messing with your tank lines. TANKS: should have got this change long ago. tanks are tanks again. BANSHEES: they feel stronger in TvP now, thanks to the speed upgrade being available. I haven't tried making more than 3 or 4, but needless to say they survive a lot longer and aren't just suicide units anymore. even if toss has blink/obs, you can bring them back home for repair, then go back out on the map with speed. they are great for map control. if you want a bit of information fast, like if toss has a third base (or ninja base), or you want to scout tech buildings, you can save scans and simply fly your speed banshee in for a look. they are slightly better for opening vT now that cyclone's don't have auto lock-on. BUILDS: reactor/factory, double reactor/factory builds are very strong. the combination of speedy units like hellion/cyclone/mine allows you to take map control and put on pressure. reactor cyclones gives terran more of a chance to defend bullshit like proxy oracle, where if you don't have exactly 6 marines you'll suffer tremendous damage. overall, it gives terran more options when defending rushes, and more options for counter-attacking. mech looks like it's in a good spot now. NICE ONE BLIZZ! I agree with pretty much everything. Mech seems quite viable now. Kudos to Blizzard for finnaly trying to make mech viable! | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
It has to do with controlling units and making correct decisions very fast. My idea would be to open the maps up for more possible army movements while slowing other things down. Also seeing people tech up to ultras and winning at 12 mins is in no way fun to watch or play | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
But in my honest opinion this is NOT the way to make the game better. They need to stop adding new abilities and gimmicks and focus on honing down the gameplay right now in order to balance it. If I'm trying to balance a ruler on a point I wouldn't do it by constantly adding more and more stuff to each side hoping it ends up perfect, that just makes it easier to topple. I mean they want DTs to be more viable late game (even though they already serve many many good uses), so they just add a random ability to them in hopes it makes them more used, why? They already serve their purpose. And who on earth came up with that Tempest change, it takes 2 tempest to pretty much make a mineral field unminable (???). So many changes to discuss but it just seems like they are overdoing it. Adding more gimmicks to the game wont balance it, it just means they will end up constantly patching it and changing the maps to compensate. | ||
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Pugfarmer
70 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1074 Posts
On August 17 2016 11:14 My_Fake_Plastic_Luv wrote: These changes are okay, but Blizz needs to realize its the gimmicky stuff that's making the game not so great.... ie adept shades, oracles, warp prism pick-ups, (kudos for removing siege tank pickup!). Further the new infestor spell, the speed banshees, the cyclone, the battlecruisers wreak of gimmicky bad design. The game being fun for nubs and competitive on a prolevel has nothing to do with contrived and annoying spells. It has to do with controlling units and making correct decisions very fast. My idea would be to open the maps up for more possible army movements while slowing other things down. Also seeing people tech up to ultras and winning at 12 mins is in no way fun to watch or play banshees without speed are gimmicky. the old banshees were suicide units. once you hard-counter them, they are irrelevant for the rest of the game. not to mention, they are completely useless vs zerg, thanks to queen range, and hardly ever seen vs toss unless you're GuMiho. battlecruisers with energy are gimmicky. just watch your mythical end-game sky army get wrecked by feedback. the old cyclones were gimmicky. the cyclone 2.0 is just a solid mech infantry unit with an AA spell. where's the gimmick? | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
Why is the adept's shade ability gimmicky? What makes a unit gimmicky? Is it the abilities it can use? Is a unit gimmicky if its easy to use? Hard to use? Is a niche unit gimmicky? I think either people need to clarify their meaning of gimmicky, or perhaps better explain why they think a unit is gimmicky. It's used far to often by many to just write off a unit they don't like or have difficulty dealing with it. | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1074 Posts
On August 17 2016 11:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: I hate the word gimmick. What does it even mean? I looked it up on dictionary.com, and I don't think their definition matches how it is used in this community. Or perhaps this community is not using the term properly. Why is the adept's shade ability gimmicky? What makes a unit gimmicky? Is it the abilities it can use? Is a unit gimmicky if its easy to use? Hard to use? Is a niche unit gimmicky? I think either people need to clarify their meaning of gimmicky, or perhaps better explain why they think a unit is gimmicky. It's used far to often by many to just write off a unit they don't like or have difficulty dealing with it. I first heard it in Warcraft III when my opponent called my play "gimmicky"... I guess gimmicky in RTS terms means cheesy, cute, not reliable, lucky, rock/paper/scissors. I imagine Blizzard's QA team don't use the word "gimmicky" in their test reports. gimmicky is an emotion more than anything. for example, oracles and adepts feel gimmicky to me because they are not satisfying to play against. unless you back it up with solid examples, then gimmicky doesn't really mean anything. | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
On August 17 2016 12:46 SHODAN wrote: I first heard it in Warcraft III when my opponent called my play "gimmicky"... I guess gimmicky in RTS terms means cheesy, cute, not reliable, lucky, rock/paper/scissors. I imagine Blizzard's QA team don't use the word "gimmicky" in their test reports. gimmicky is an emotion more than anything. for example, oracles and adepts feel gimmicky to me because they are not satisfying to play against. unless you back it up with solid examples, then gimmicky doesn't really mean anything. That was my assumption when I keep reading comments that xyz units are gimmicky. I would honestly hope everyone here would just drop that moniker. If you don't like a unit, don't call it gimmicky. Just say "I don't like it." Give reasons of course, and it doesn't even have to be for balance/design reasons. It could be an anecdotal experience while playing a game. Played against a lategame zerg that you almost beat, but once he got Ultras you lost. So now you hate Ultralisks. Did your mineral line get decimated by a bunch of DT that was able to blink away to safety after your losses? Well just say you hate DT because they can decimate mineral lines and reliably escape. Actually, I really don't like the blink DT. I think they are going to be incredibly overpowered. The only thing I can see balancing them out is if their version of blink had a long channel time that would cancel upon taking damage. So a DT would take 3 seconds to blink, and if they took damage at any point the blink would stop. | ||
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