LotV Design Changes announced - Page 27

On August 16 2016 18:32 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
Does someone has an educated guess how the testmap matchmaking will be implemented?

On August 16 2016 15:51 insitelol wrote:

This.
.

On August 16 2016 13:51 avilo wrote:
Anyways, my main thoughts about all those changes are - hallelujah. Who gives a fuck if some of the changes are too good or too bad. The point is they're changes that actually change the way we'll play the game rather than this game slowly dying off while every single caster pretends like the same exact 2 rax stim into 16 marine drop into the Terran dying to ultras is the epitome of SC2 strategic gameplay.

On August 16 2016 20:58 Blackfeather wrote:
I think dota 2 is bigger than lol only in terms of prizepool not viewers yet (hard to say with ingame viewers and valve not releasing numbers to ti6 yet). But yeah, those two are at the top afaik.
Honestly whenever viewer numbers are declining visibly companies should probably shake up the meta.

On August 16 2016 22:09 4ntipode wrote:
...

While I understand that Terran would like more variety with mech, I'd say, that the tank change is truly terrifying. Let's recall what BW games were and the fact that terran bio is stronger and much more mobile than bio back then. Think also that the tank upgrade comes with massive mech upgrade and the possibility to combine powerful tank with liberator, raven, etc...

...

On August 16 2016 13:51 avilo wrote:
People will say i'm biased as fuck etc but SC2 needs huge changes. For people saying stuff about mech this or that, i hope you realize 1% of pro games since SC2's release have been mech games. 99% have been bio or marine+tank games. There is something truely wrong with that.

Tank "buff" is essentially a revert of the old tank nerf that entirely killed mech itself out of viability. Mech is only forced to turtle because of all of the previous nerfs and still not having good anti-air. You're forced to turtle because moving tanks onto the map means you 100% will lose them and they don't even trade with basic units like zealots or zerglings or even marines.

If tanks can trade for their cost...mech games won't just be "sit there till you have 20 ravens" type of games.

The tempest ability is pretty bad they're adding - it's basically psi storm that stays in place for 40 seconds ....tempest + high templar was already bad enough i highly doubt they'll follow through with literally just giving tempests their own free psi storm as that will just re-invent the "mass tempest + high templar" problem without even needing high templar anymore lol.

Besides that i'mt not even gonna comment on the rest of the changes till i play with them myself on the test map. The only worrying thing to me is that they didn't mention anything about 8 armor ultras, viper parasitic bomb, invincible nydus, and mass adepts, which a lot of people will probably agree are ridiculous balance issues that still are in the game. Also i highly doubt it's a good idea to make bio unplayable with a baneling buff, the core unit that fights versus bio lol.

Anyways, my main thoughts about all those changes are - hallelujah. Who gives a fuck if some of the changes are too good or too bad. The point is they're changes that actually change the way we'll play the game rather than this game slowly dying off while every single caster pretends like the same exact 2 rax stim into 16 marine drop into the Terran dying to ultras is the epitome of SC2 strategic gameplay.

I'm sure the SC2 community will give feedback on the changes. We should be happy blizzard finally is making big changes. We should be encouraging blizzard to do exactly shit like this because even if the changes are wrong blizzard finally seems to have the balls to be wrong and then hopefully actually iterate upon those changes and tune them up or down correspondingly.

How can there be any iteration if you're unwilling to make changes in the first place? Imo this patch / re-design announcement is the best thing i've heard in the last 5 yrs for SC2.

On August 16 2016 22:21 petro1987 wrote:


I like how people evoke the whole "tank was OP in BW, so let's be careful in buffing the tank in SC2". Guess what? Tanks were not OP in BW. PvT is historically above 50%. Were tanks good in BW? Obviously, but take them away and what would Terran do versus Protoss? Besides, BW is so different from SC2 that the comparison doesn't even make much sense. Protoss has a lot of counter units to tanks in SC2.

On August 16 2016 22:43 4ntipode wrote:



You obviously haven't read me. I did not say that Tanks were op in BW, but they dictate the way an entire MU were played. If we are looking for diversity in strategies, it's not what we would like.

Plus you're saying that SC 2 and BW are different games so the comparison doesn't hold and this what I said, adding that Lotv have brought other options to Terran which are already strong. Now Terran doesn't even need tank to hold vs protoss, except maybe vs blink stalker rush. In fact most pro PvT, are more about massing liberator and MMM.

And no Protoss don't have " a lot of counter " to tanks in SC2, since immortals don't have hardened shield anymore, they aren't such a hard counter as before. The only real counter vs Tank is the tempest, as it is also a real counter to liberator.

On August 16 2016 22:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

SC2 consists of more than just TvZ. Also, i see lots of Medivac/Tank/Marine/Widow Mine compositions in TvZ.

you can not see the forest through the trees. The entire genre is in decline and a lower tide means all boats are lower. All Blizzard can do is slow the decline.

I'm happy with these changes and with Blizzard's continued efforts to support an RTS game. However, the entire genre and all teh games in it will continue to decline. It does not matter what Creative Assembly, Blizzard, Relic, and Blackbird/Gearbox do.. its already over. The reasons its over are beyond the scope of David Kim's job and the job of Team 1.

David Kim is doing a great job.


not always. sometimes the game is perfectly fine and forces beyond the game are causing it to decline in popularity.

On August 16 2016 15:51 insitelol wrote:

This. But i guess DK is in the state where "SC2 is only getting worse everyday so let's turn everything on its head we got nothing to lose". I've been saying this for ages: "leave this game alone". It's not healthy for an esport to be changed drastically every half a year. But people continue to drag in their "the more changes the better" casual attitude. It's keeping the game fresh the say. "i'll definitely gonna play after these changes". They said this before the LoTV release, they are saying this now. But the truth is LoTV has A HALF of HoTS playerbase http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=1&r=-2&sx=a&sy=c . Where are you guys, you promised me to play the game, you hyped so much, i believed you. But it all turned out that changes didnt attract new players or make old ones to come back but instead scared off the huge number of dedicated players. I myself did go through a long period of apathy and irritation, and finally overcame that and adapted. But seems like half of the players where lost in the process. Now they are gonna do it again. And all i see is people hyping that w/o even understanding how this will turn out lead by avilo who's only purpose is to attract attention to his person.

On August 16 2016 18:51 Creager wrote:


Mine would be they probably implement the changes for unranked play which would turn it into some kind of beta-mode for the rest of the year (or maybe even longer?) and leave ranked play for those who want to play "normal".

Another method would be introducing a PTR, but since that would require players to download an additional client, I'm not sure if that many people would play on it.