EPTCommunity Feedback Update - July 21 - Page 4
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15955 Posts
On July 22 2016 11:31 Pugfarmer wrote: BC is not worse than swarm host Swarmhosts have been used in competitive play. Rogue made SHs vs Dark, Byul made SHs vs Patience, snute played around a bit with swarmhosts... When have you seen BCs in competitive play? | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On July 22 2016 18:04 [PkF] Wire wrote: yeah sounds good but really it's harder to deal with than the current one, for which you can at least prepare well Yeah i admit it seems cool and fun but must be OP ^^ | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Mass queens turtle into invincible ultras is getting boring already. And watching 60 pop of bio never killing an ultra because of armor+transfuses is just lame as an spectator. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On July 22 2016 23:53 Seeker wrote: I would love to see BCs become more viable. I would love to see zerg getting a buff as long as it doesn't affect terran balance too much. Ultras are already so annoying to deal with as they are... I'm also very pro to the proposed protoss changes as I feel adepts and warp prisms really do need some adjusting. But when are they going to fix the tempest? -.- at least increasing tempests supply is indeed something they should really be considering and have never -correct me if I'm wrong- talked about | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On July 23 2016 00:06 Salteador Neo wrote: Another way to nerf ultras other than the obvious -1armor would be... to limit queen transfuse to buildings only -.- Mass queens turtle into invincible ultras is getting boring already. And watching 60 pop of bio never killing an ultra because of armor+transfuses is just lame as an spectator. Upping the energy requirement for transfuse to 75 would be fair in exchange for the queen buff. This way queens don't snowball to lategame that much, because it's abusive and boring. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On July 22 2016 23:08 Charoisaur wrote: Swarmhosts have been used in competitive play. Rogue made SHs vs Dark, Byul made SHs vs Patience, snute played around a bit with swarmhosts... When have you seen BCs in competitive play? Only time I can remember. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 22 2016 22:42 geokilla wrote: Again Blizzard doesn't know how to fix their game. The problem is the pickup range for Warp Prism, not their health! Well, the high health makes it very forgiving to do WP shit. With lower HP, lower level Ps should loose them more often. Removing the +light damage of Liberators would take away the only interesting aspect of the unit for me: an alternative to the Thor as anti Muta. The main problem i think is the huge anti ground dmg, and that it's in direct conflict with the siege tank as a role; true that the tank is crap right now. So buff the Tank and nerf the anti ground of the Lib. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 23 2016 00:36 [PkF] Wire wrote: at least increasing tempests supply is indeed something they should really be considering and have never -correct me if I'm wrong- talked about Yeah. There are a few popular topics that they are ignoring for some reason. Tempests, mech and Nidus for example. Maybe they have no fix in mind and it's part of the "major redesign" the summit talked about. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On July 23 2016 00:57 Sapphire.lux wrote: Yeah. The are a few popular topics that they are ignoring for some reason. Tempests, mech and Nidus for example. Maybe they have no fix in mind and it's part of the "major redesign" the summit talked about. I actually think current Nydus is fine. I think they don't communicate too much about mech because it's really hard to make mech playable without strengthening cancerous boring styles. Tempests though, I don't understand why they don't at least acknowledge the issue. It plagues P lategame. btw I hope the major redesign is more about WCS / game content (coop ladder, explanatory videos ingame etc) than the game itself. The game is in a pretty good state right now. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 23 2016 00:53 Sapphire.lux wrote: Well, the high health makes it very forgiving to do WP shit. With lower HP, lower level Ps should loose them more often. Removing the +light damage of Liberators would take away the only interesting aspect of the unit for me: an alternative to the Thor as anti Muta. The main problem i think is the huge anti ground dmg, and that it's in direct conflict with the siege tank as a role; true that the tank is crap right now. So buff the Tank and nerf the anti ground of the Lib. There should never have been an anti ground attack for the liberator to begin with. I would go as far as to say that every single new unit they added in lotv was a design failure. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
On July 23 2016 01:04 The_Red_Viper wrote: There should never have been an anti ground attack for the liberator to begin with. I would go as far as to say that every single new unit they added in lotv was a design failure. well the same can be argued for HotS units... Strangely enough the game is currently pretty good and enjoyable. But yeah, no one will convince me that the game wouldn't be better with WoL units, current eco, projectile fungal and some of the sensible adjustments we got over the years. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 23 2016 01:02 [PkF] Wire wrote: I actually think current Nydus is fine. I think they don't communicate too much about mech because it's really hard to make mech playable without strengthening cancerous boring styles. Tempests though, I don't understand why they don't at least acknowledge the issue. It plagues P lategame. btw I hope the major redesign is more about WCS / game content (coop ladder etc) than the game itself. The game is in a pretty good state right now. I don't know, maybe the Nidus is ok, i find it unreasonable in combination with queen heal. The mech cancer i think has always been about air units more then factory, ravens and now libs. Focus on the basics on Tank-hellion-antiair and move away from expensive energy units or flying units and try to emulate BW in this regard, or TvT WoL for that matter. The Tempest is just pain and it ha always been IMO. I think they just have no solution. | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On July 22 2016 02:12 Noonius wrote: why don't they just do it? They keep fiddling with tiny changes that do not actually fix any problems As long as the changes have a visible effect, its enough. Bigger changes dont solve the issiue, they make it worse. If you make small changes, you know the cause of an effect. If you change a lot of variables, you cant know which variables caused what. Even if you change only one variable, it can change a lot of things. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 23 2016 01:04 The_Red_Viper wrote: There should never have been an anti ground attack for the liberator to begin with. I would go as far as to say that every single new unit they added in lotv was a design failure. As far as the Lib goes, i think it's a problem in high level thinking/design here, big words i know. If you look at some of the units introduced, they have always tried to out-siege the sieger: BLs(11 range) in WOL, Tempests(15 range) introduced in hots and SH(275 range), and Libs (14 anti ground) in LOTV. So what i personally see as a problem, it seems Blizz sees as a solution: long range flying units. IMO these units have done nothing but promote terrible gameplay for both players and spectators, but seeing how it seems to be a core design philosophy, it's probably not going to change. The late game is domed to always be terrible in SC2. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 23 2016 01:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: well the same can be argued for HotS units... Strangely enough the game is currently pretty good and enjoyable. But yeah, no one will convince me that the game wouldn't be better with WoL units, current eco, projectile fungal and some of the sensible adjustments we got over the years. Personally i think widow mines aren't that bad and vipers could be easily changed a bit to be fairly interesting units as well. I also don't like the "new economy" all that much, i really think blizzard should have tried more economy models, some which give you an actual economy advantage for taking more bases. In general i want them to try more big changes, all the time. We need a ptr or something where we can test those changes and see if it is good/bad for the game. The biggest thing i want to see actually tested by the community is another pathing. It would look better and it also would probably make deathballs way, way weaker which is a good thing. But blizzard said they tested it and it didn't change the game, i call bs on that one personally. I want to be positive about the game, but in reality blizzard simply doesn't deliver at all. It's hard to be positive when you don't see any big changes while blizzard said they are open to it, etc. From time to time there is a balance map which nobody plays anyway and in the weekly updates we don't really talk about all of the issues the community brings up over and over again. It's mostly balance talk when the design would be a lot more interesting and meaningful for the enjoyment of the game. Balance might be interesting when there are HUGE problems, i doubt there are any atm. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 23 2016 01:19 The_Red_Viper wrote: Personally i think widow mines aren't that bad and vipers could be easily changed a bit to be fairly interesting units as well. I also don't like the "new economy" all that much, i really think blizzard should have tried more economy models, some which give you an actual economy advantage for taking more bases. In general i want them to try more big changes, all the time. We need a ptr or something where we can test those changes and see if it is good/bad for the game. The biggest thing i want to see actually tested by the community is another pathing. It would look better and it also would probably make deathballs way, way weaker which is a good thing. But blizzard said they tested it and it didn't change the game, i call bs on that one personally. I want to be positive about the game, but in reality blizzard simply doesn't deliver at all. It's hard to be positive when you don't see any big changes while blizzard said they are open to it, etc. From time to time there is a balance map which nobody plays anyway and in the weekly updates we don't really talk about all of the issues the community brings up over and over again. It's mostly balance talk when the design would be a lot more interesting and meaningful for the enjoyment of the game. Balance might be interesting when there are HUGE problems, i doubt there are any atm. I am one that thinks the game need significant changes in design on units and unit interactions and synergy, but it's very possible that Blizz sees the game as exactly as what they wanted it to be. There are people that think the game is fantastic right now to. Unfortunately for those people and Blizz, the people that are loving the game right now are a lot fewer then the ones that are critical and the ones that moved away. My point is that we should not expect big changes, as they might not be seen as needed by the devs. If this is what they wanted all along, they are happy. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
IMO these units have done nothing but promote terrible gameplay for both players and spectators, but seeing how it seems to be a core design philosophy, it's probably not going to change. The late game is domed to always be terrible in SC2. As a general rule, there should imo only be two types of units with range over 8-9 1. Immobile/positional units (Siege Tanks/Liberators/Lurkers 2. Skillshot abilities (Psi Storm, Disrutor, Fungal Growth). When core units have long range but are balanced around being slow, it creates terrible and deathbally gameplay. You would think they learned that w/ the Collosus and Broodlord in WOL.... But they didn't, and then you think they learned that with the introduction of the Tempest in HOTS....... Still nothing. Either you make units immobile and very cost-effective or you make them fast and responsive. You don't go for the middle of the road approach as Blizzard too often does in their unit design. | ||
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