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United Kingdom20345 Posts
I don't feel I'm facing less Protoss players than in HotS.
1v1 masters worldwide is 38% terran, 34% zerg and 24% protoss right now
at the start of HOTS protoss was the most popular race (34-37%) and towards the end it was 33/32/32.
Protoss representation has declined by more than 1.3x since the most balanced period and about 1.5x since the start of HOTS
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There is some shift between regions. Terran is dominating korea numbers with numbers never seen before at 42/30/25% (T/Z/P) representation. EU is the most zerg heavy region with a few percent more zerg than terran; NA has slightly more terran than zerg.
All three have the same protoss representation within a few percentage
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Finally the warp prism nerf!
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On July 24 2016 18:14 Cyro wrote:1v1 masters worldwide is 38% terran, 34% zerg and 24% protoss right now at the start of HOTS protoss was the most popular race (34-37%) and towards the end it was 33/32/32. Protoss representation has declined by more than 1.3x since the most balanced period and about 1.5x since the start of HOTS --- There is some shift between regions. Terran is dominating korea numbers with numbers never seen before at 42/30/25% (T/Z/P) representation. EU is the most zerg heavy region with a few percent more zerg than terran; NA has slightly more terran than zerg. All three have the same protoss representation within a few percentage
Worldwide, Protoss is 29% of the non-random playerbase, 25% of masters and 32% of GM (again, excluding random). Relative to their population, they're under-represented in masters and over-represented in GM.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
they're under-represented in masters
Plat through top of masters
P is inflated at bottom leagues, deflated at top (exception of top 0.5% of playerbase); zerg is the opposite. The average zerg player is ranked substantially higher than the average protoss player.
Terran is more stable throughout skill levels
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are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks..
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On July 24 2016 21:53 TT1 wrote:
are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks..
Another casualty of the "talk about 5 weeks in a row and then act like it never happened" issue
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On July 24 2016 21:53 TT1 wrote:
are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks..
One of the few ways for a zerg to harras P early in the game. Mothership is too strong to nerf drops in my opinion.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On July 24 2016 22:26 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 21:53 TT1 wrote:
are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks.. One of the few ways for a zerg to harras P early in the game. Mothership is too strong to nerf drops in my opinion.
It's more aptly described as an all-in than a harass - the usual outcomes are effectively/absolutely killing your opponent or losing the game minutes later
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On July 24 2016 22:53 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 22:26 RaFox17 wrote:On July 24 2016 21:53 TT1 wrote:
are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks.. One of the few ways for a zerg to harras P early in the game. Mothership is too strong to nerf drops in my opinion. It's more aptly described as an all-in than a harass - the usual outcomes are effectively/absolutely killing your opponent or losing the game minutes later
So almost the same as adept harras without the part of the attacker dying if it fails 
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right now i think sc2 is in a perfect place. the shoutcraft has shown this
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On July 25 2016 05:45 beheamoth wrote:
right now i think sc2 is in a perfect place. the shoutcraft has shown this
It showed that people would like to see more foreigners vs. koreans against each other. Hopefully the rules are different for next year.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On July 25 2016 05:00 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 22:53 Cyro wrote:On July 24 2016 22:26 RaFox17 wrote:On July 24 2016 21:53 TT1 wrote:
are early overlord drops really not an issue in pvz (fast ling drops and early ling bane styles)? i always thought it was broken but it never gets brought up in balance talks.. One of the few ways for a zerg to harras P early in the game. Mothership is too strong to nerf drops in my opinion. It's more aptly described as an all-in than a harass - the usual outcomes are effectively/absolutely killing your opponent or losing the game minutes later So almost the same as adept harras without the part of the attacker dying if it fails
4-8 adepts w/ warp prism - harass
10 gates and no tech on 40-50 probes - not harass
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On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.
If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc. How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished?
That's stupid because T will just scan & kill it immediately. The way this would work is if Nydus being cloaked does not alert the enemy player that Nydus is coming. Then it would make sense. Seeing as how stuff happening underground is not detectable to our everyday senses.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 25 2016 06:12 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.
If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc. How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished? That's stupid because T will just scan & kill it immediately. The way this would work is if Nydus being cloaked does not alert the enemy player that Nydus is coming. Then it would make sense. Seeing as how stuff happening underground is not detectable to our everyday senses.
Which would actually just make it stronger than the current nydus because then you couldn't set up the defense you need until the units pop out.
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The nydus simply shouldn't be designed as an allin mechanic. It always was in sc2 though which makes it so troublesome.
Get zerg drops in a good place and the nydus is redundant anyway
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On July 25 2016 06:55 The_Red_Viper wrote:
The nydus simply shouldn't be designed as an allin mechanic. It always was in sc2 though which makes it so troublesome.
Get zerg drops in a good place and the nydus is redundant anyway
I agree, the problem is if you pay 200/300 for a canal, it has to be an all-in. The price should be heavily reduced and should be vulnerable again
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On July 25 2016 06:22 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 06:12 parkufarku wrote:On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.
If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc. How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished? That's stupid because T will just scan & kill it immediately. The way this would work is if Nydus being cloaked does not alert the enemy player that Nydus is coming. Then it would make sense. Seeing as how stuff happening underground is not detectable to our everyday senses. Which would actually just make it stronger than the current nydus because then you couldn't set up the defense you need until the units pop out.
Seeing as how weak Z air is right now especially vs. Libs, this Nydus buff would be needed AND then some more nerfs to Terran air dominance.
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On July 25 2016 07:16 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 06:55 The_Red_Viper wrote:
The nydus simply shouldn't be designed as an allin mechanic. It always was in sc2 though which makes it so troublesome.
Get zerg drops in a good place and the nydus is redundant anyway I agree, the problem is if you pay 200/300 for a canal, it has to be an all-in. The price should be heavily reduced and should be vulnerable again
Price should be free or 50 minerals, and invulnerable. There's no point in having a vulnerable Nydus when top players have top senses and can kill it immediately, especially with sensor tower detecting any stray overlords and such.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 25 2016 07:51 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 06:22 Elentos wrote:On July 25 2016 06:12 parkufarku wrote:On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.
If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc. How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished? That's stupid because T will just scan & kill it immediately. The way this would work is if Nydus being cloaked does not alert the enemy player that Nydus is coming. Then it would make sense. Seeing as how stuff happening underground is not detectable to our everyday senses. Which would actually just make it stronger than the current nydus because then you couldn't set up the defense you need until the units pop out. Seeing as how weak Z air is right now especially vs. Libs, this Nydus buff would be needed AND then some more nerfs to Terran air dominance.
If you buff the nydus like this you mainly buff nydus all-ins which isn't what the game needs. It's not just a late game harassment option and so it shouldn't be approached like it.
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The problem with the nydus is that it overlaps with drops so much. I don't see a reason to have it in the game at all tbh.
As i said multiple times already, the nydus is an allin mechanic and i don't see why we need such a mechanic.
So either we redesign it completely (in a way it doesn't overlap with drops anymore) or simply remove it altogether.
Drops should be changed a bit so it's more viable though (like faster overlords)
What could the nydus do? One idea i have right now would be simply changing it to bw status. I don't know if it is needed in sc2 though. Another one would be to make it more of a retreat mechanism for slower units like lurkers, hydras, roaches, ultras, queens, etc (simple change would be to make the worm cost a lot less and nothing can escape the worm, just enter)
Not 100% sure if that is needed either though.
Still i don't see why we need the allin nydus, remove it from the game if you don't have a better purpose for it.
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EPT
