• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:48
CEST 19:48
KST 02:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double1Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon105
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6543 users

Community Feedback Update - July 21 - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
179 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
July 22 2016 04:51 GMT
#41
Warp prism could probably use a nerf or two to its health or pick-up range, but I feel like the big issue is that it's just so cheap. The fact that a speedy, fast-warp in/pseudo-blink unit can be built for just 200 minerals is ridiculous. I quite like that the WP is so strong, but it needs to actually be an investment. I would love to see it cost some gas.

Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-22 06:24:51
July 22 2016 05:04 GMT
#42
On July 22 2016 02:12 Noonius wrote:
Show nested quote +
Adept Shade cooldown increase, Warp Prism health nerf, and Ultralisk upgraded armor nerf by 1


why don't they just do it? They keep fiddling with tiny changes that do not actually fix any problems


Because they literally do not know what they are doing.

And when someone doesn't know what to do, they do nothing.

You'd think the people getting paid to design the game, would design the game, but then you'd be wrong. Instead Blizzard is polling the players, because players could never be biased... right?

But there is no vision, no direction, they just throw ideas into the game. MOBA skillshots sounded cool so they made the cut for LOTV because the polling game designers figured out that lots of people play LOL so it would work.

Blizzard should have hired pollsters to balance and design the game. But they'd probably not hire the competent pollsters because they can't find game designers who understand game design.

I really like Starcraft, but the whole "design the game by flying by the seat of your pants" crap has been old since WOL, and polling players is not the answer.

On July 22 2016 13:18 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2016 05:20 andrewlt wrote:
On July 22 2016 03:47 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On July 22 2016 02:24 Charoisaur wrote:
I like what I read but I think instead of looking into adept shade and warpprisms they should look into tempests.
why would you nerf fun things that promote multitasking but keep boring turtly stuff in the game?


Tempests are necessary against turtly mass liberator styles, and in PvT you rarely if ever should go over 6 tempests anyways. Tempests are only a problem in ultra-lategame PvZ really.


Anything that can counter a turtle unit by outranging them becomes the new turtle unit. It's a neverending downward spiral.

Yep. First we had BLs 10 range, then tempests 15 range, not libs 14 range. The same happened with Tank 13 range and SH 75e6 range.

Blizz really has a problem with all this outsieging the siege concept.


You can say the same thing regarding unit speeds... Blizzard's philosophy that buffing things is better than nerfing things has led to this and was a flawed philosophy from the start. The TheDwf elegantly pointed that out in his Razzia of the Blizzsters.
mCon.Hephaistas
Profile Joined May 2014
Netherlands891 Posts
July 22 2016 05:56 GMT
#43
Zerg simply doesn't have the economic advantage anymore to properly play ling/bane styles anymore.

So either give them their economic advantage back (this will probably require an ravager/ultra nerf aswell) or make ling bane a bit more cost efficient.
AleXusher
Profile Joined September 2014
280 Posts
July 22 2016 06:16 GMT
#44
On July 22 2016 02:49 JackONeill wrote:
The weekly disappointment update.

Master League Terran Gameplay - https://www.youtube.com/user/AleXusher92 // Cheap Highlevel coaching - https://www.gamersensei.com/senseis/alexusher
Uni1987
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands642 Posts
July 22 2016 06:17 GMT
#45
The game is pretty balanced on a pro level right now, no?
.............
Sweetness.751
Profile Joined April 2011
United States225 Posts
July 22 2016 06:35 GMT
#46
On July 22 2016 02:27 PinoKotsBeer wrote:

Cyclone 4 supply 120 hp, adept got 150 health, oracle kills a cyclone...



Ya with no micro......not to mention an Oracle costs more and is higher tech. That doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Zealot also beats a Hydra with no micro.

Your points are pitiful. Try again.
Elentos wrote: Do you think only 10 life points more for Viking is enough bObA wrote: 10 life points is all you need to send someone to the Shadow Realm.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
July 22 2016 06:46 GMT
#47
On July 22 2016 15:17 Uni1987 wrote:
The game is pretty balanced on a pro level right now, no?

not if you're a korean zerg or a foreign terran
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-22 07:02:34
July 22 2016 06:58 GMT
#48
Game is at a dead end of design.

for TvZ Terran unites too many superior elements:
- T is the offensive race what allows them to play win/continue vs. the continue/lose of zerg, giving them the offenders advantage throughout long periods of the game.
- T is the best mobile race what allows them to punish small positioning mistakes and stay on top of things and barely get punihed themselves.
- T has the best defence with units like PF, mines, liberators, cheap turrets, bunkers and tanks combined with the macro ability mule, which is the best defensive ability to have after an attack as it provides free income without any downside (zerg has larva but needs to spend $ to rebuild drones, chrono the same) makes them pretty much unattackable as it is always cost inefficient.

To compensate for all that, blizzard simply gave ravagers to zerg. An op tier 1 unit that is the only way to attack terran at all and the only unit that makes sense to build until you reach T3 with capped/nearly capped upgrades.
- less mobility of zerg.
- disabling zergs natural strength of quickly switching units/tech.
- creating instability in the matchup as ravagers can be used to overpower terran in situations where terran has lost few too many units in the process before.
Also other op things to compensate for the above mentioned T op by design like 8 ar ultra.

The result is a matchup that by definition wont be possible to balance and to make fun to play. Never.

GL trying tho, as I know you neither understand nor will listen.
Dirk_Diggler
Profile Joined July 2016
19 Posts
July 22 2016 07:44 GMT
#49
I have to admit, Dayvie & the crew are doing a pretty good job. Nothing will be perfect, but they are always trying to bring all parties interested/invested into the fold, they listen, and the game has reached an enjoyable equilibrium (balance wise) in many respects. I think we should all just be happy, try to get better at the game, and/or try to get more people to try playing it.
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
July 22 2016 07:49 GMT
#50
On July 22 2016 16:44 Dirk_Diggler wrote:
I have to admit, Dayvie & the crew are doing a pretty good job. Nothing will be perfect, but they are always trying to bring all parties interested/invested into the fold, they listen, and the game has reached an enjoyable equilibrium (balance wise) in many respects. I think we should all just be happy, try to get better at the game, and/or try to get more people to try playing it.

Sure thing mate. 8)


SpecKROELLchen
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany151 Posts
July 22 2016 07:57 GMT
#51
There are so many possible solutions. You could change the area of the liberator into a rectangle or an ellipse to cover the same area but reducing the range.
Another thing could be that just one or max 2 liberators can shoot in overlapping zones, so you can still cover large areas but not make the ultimative 12 liberator zone.
But i think if the liberator is nerfed there terran even more needs an lategame buff.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
July 22 2016 08:23 GMT
#52
On July 22 2016 05:27 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:
On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.


If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc.


How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished?

Great suggestion, also it's more realistic : you can't seem the exit until the worm has finished to dig.

It sounds tempting at first glance, but I think it'll be a buff to the nydus timing in practice. It's close to impossible to cover all your base in detection, so the nydus will effectively be as invincible as it is now, only that there is a fair chance that you wont see the blur in the ground, which means that you wont even have your defense in place to try to burst down the nydus before the queens come out.

Only way that it'll be easier is if you scout it in time to get a raven and then spot the blur on the ground in time to get the raven and DPS there in time to take it out. Not sure that is a likely counter?
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-22 09:04:58
July 22 2016 09:03 GMT
#53
On July 22 2016 05:27 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:
On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.


If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc.


How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished?

Great suggestion, also it's more realistic : you can't seem the exit until the worm has finished to dig.

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2016 05:12 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On July 22 2016 04:54 Pokebunny wrote:
On July 22 2016 02:12 Noonius wrote:
Adept Shade cooldown increase, Warp Prism health nerf, and Ultralisk upgraded armor nerf by 1


why don't they just do it? They keep fiddling with tiny changes that do not actually fix any problems

these are all good changes and the kind of changes I want to see, there aren't major problems imo

agree the state of the game is pretty good right now and those are exactly the kind of changes we need.

Not really, see GSL ? No zerg.

All these changes come in the same direction :
Shade increase : good for terran.
WP nerf : good for terran.
Ultra -1 armor : good for terran.

Zerg get only buff for early/mid game ZvP, while if they need buff it's rather to deal vs protoss lategame (honestly never seen pro games where a zerg beat Protoss on late game, but i would be glad if someone has some games to learn how to win vs them).

Sure ZvT is too ultra centric for Zerg but zerg have nothing else that is reliable and good vs terran army.
Terran have two counters for ultras, and some may say it's hard to control it's possible. GSL results prove it.

Want less ultras based army to help the casual terran ? Then buff the other things to give zerg a way to play without ultras.

Else just -1 for ultras is just nerfing the weakest race.

shade increase would also help Z tremendously. As for ultras I would hold on that change for the time being but we all know it'll probably happen at some point. It's hard to assess Z in Korea with GSL/SSL because we shouldn't forget the matches prior to the main events (qualifiers etc) happened before the queen/spore patch that is not just a slight buff. For instance in Proleague Z looked much stronger after the patch. I would like them to keep very calm and patient about nerfs/buffs, just the way they're doing things.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
July 22 2016 09:04 GMT
#54
On July 22 2016 17:23 Cascade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2016 05:27 Tyrhanius wrote:
On July 22 2016 03:51 striderx2048 wrote:
On July 22 2016 02:49 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Nydus being invincible before it´s done makes sense. It tunnels underground so being able to kill it by shooting ground makes zero sense. Seeing that zerg does not have much air presence at the moment i think that having stronger nydus is good for the game.


If we're talking about realistic things, there are quite a few unrealistic things in sc2 anyway. How do use stim then get healed by medivac in real life? I think nydus worm shouldn't be invincible because defender should be awarded for quick reaction. You shouldn't punish defender in all cases. You shouldn't fail (being detected in this case) and still do your thing. It's especially annoying when your army is attacking enemy and you're low on resources, then nydus worm is successful because you don't have money for more than 1-2 zealot/stalker/etc.


How about nydus exit being "cloak" but attackable until it is finished?

Great suggestion, also it's more realistic : you can't seem the exit until the worm has finished to dig.

It sounds tempting at first glance, but I think it'll be a buff to the nydus timing in practice. It's close to impossible to cover all your base in detection, so the nydus will effectively be as invincible as it is now, only that there is a fair chance that you wont see the blur in the ground, which means that you wont even have your defense in place to try to burst down the nydus before the queens come out.

Only way that it'll be easier is if you scout it in time to get a raven and then spot the blur on the ground in time to get the raven and DPS there in time to take it out. Not sure that is a likely counter?

yeah sounds good but really it's harder to deal with than the current one, for which you can at least prepare well
beheamoth
Profile Joined December 2015
44 Posts
July 22 2016 09:23 GMT
#55
as long as you dont do anything which revolves around coop play of offline then sc2 is good
nubHunter
Profile Joined July 2014
Spain44 Posts
July 22 2016 10:20 GMT
#56
will be -1 armor enough?
Pugfarmer
Profile Joined April 2014
70 Posts
July 22 2016 11:55 GMT
#57
The only way to bring balance to LOTV is to free the one true bonjwa, Life, from prison. He covered up the imbalance of HOTS single-handedly.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
July 22 2016 12:09 GMT
#58
He also tried to cover up his matchfixing, I don't think he's very good at covering things up anymore.
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
July 22 2016 12:26 GMT
#59
On July 22 2016 21:09 JackONeill wrote:
He also tried to cover up his matchfixing, I don't think he's very good at covering things up anymore.

Maybe the match fixing was just a diversion to cover up something much deeper?? :o
Maybe he KNOWS something no mortal starcraft player was supposed to know!
Koivusto
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Finland542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-22 12:49:07
July 22 2016 12:46 GMT
#60
I really hope that BCs would get a role in tech trees of actual pro games. Not only that usage of maximum amount of unique units is the goal across all races but also because it's a tad sad that one of the most magnificent units of the game doesn't get any proper screen time.

Dev. team introduced a new ability, teleport, for BCs at the start of Lotv but with little gain. It was a good effort but now I feel that you guys could start making baby steps towards giving BCs the same kind of vitality in games as ultras or tempests have.

Ask community again for suggestions? Maybe give teleport range and a lower cost for it to become a large scale blink.

Thanks for your hard work!
#1 Blitzcrank #Forever platinum toss --> current diamond Terran <3
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#65
RotterdaM753
TKL 322
TaKeTV 255
IndyStarCraft 190
BRAT_OK 110
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 753
TKL 322
IndyStarCraft 190
MaxPax 162
ProTech138
BRAT_OK 110
UpATreeSC 86
MindelVK 19
EmSc Tv 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 909
EffOrt 561
Mini 529
ggaemo 177
firebathero 150
White-Ra 69
Barracks 57
910 50
Hyun 50
Shinee 45
[ Show more ]
Shine 35
Bale 26
Killer 25
Trap 22
ToSsGirL 18
soO 15
yabsab 12
Dota 2
qojqva4036
Counter-Strike
Fnx 746
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4734
crisheroes1339
Liquid`Hasu1144
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi2558
singsing1670
B2W.Neo840
ceh9656
Beastyqt598
ArmadaUGS141
C9.Mang0116
Dewaltoss46
Trikslyr44
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream470
Other Games
BasetradeTV171
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 19
EmSc2Tv 19
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile115
• Reevou 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2447
• TFBlade824
Other Games
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 12m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 12m
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 17h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.