EPTAnyway, time will tell. What I like SC2 best is that there is no player who can always at the top.
Zest: The Last Titan - Page 5
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PPKdeserteagle
China3 Posts
Anyway, time will tell. What I like SC2 best is that there is no player who can always at the top. | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Silvana
3713 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On May 28 2016 16:03 Silvana wrote: Diabolique is not the next sackofwetmice, he is more like swag_bro: "Zest is in a slump!" swag_bro was the last titan - he will be missed, and deserves a TL article  | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On May 28 2016 16:07 RKC wrote: swag_bro was the last titan - he will be missed, and deserves a TL article damn I miss that man the fun killers got him | ||
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Alarak89
United States882 Posts
Till this point, there are only two players who had overall offline winning rate above 60% and winning rate against each race above 60% as well, they are sOs and Innovation, with 63.67% and 62.20% respectively. The rest players are far from getting close to them as long as any of their four winning rate is below 60%. BTW, I'm only considering Korean opponents. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:07 Alarak89 wrote: Well, career winning rate pretty much tells everything about a player. It doesn't. Mvp is by consensus one of the greatest players of all time and the King of WoL. He had 2 win rates below 60% even in WoL. They declined heavily in late WoL because of his severe health issues (before 2012 all his win rates were far above 60%). The raw win rate doesn't tell you that. Life has 1 win rate below 60%. You're basically saying that Life, the second most earning and arguably most accomplished SC2 player of all time, was not on the same level as sOs and INnoVation, solely because one of his win rates was 2% lower than your arbitrary 60% benchmark. Life ruining his career with matchfixing aside, you should realize that's that's absurd and that your 60% benchmark is not helpful. Moreover, from LP's definition of the term "bonjwa": A bonjwa has a very high winning percentage and successive title wins. However, a bonjwa is not defined by his statistics or records. Rather, a general consensus is reached that he is the most dominant progamer of his era. Nobody is close to being a bonjwa, great win rates or not, since no streak of dominance has ever been long enough to warrant the title. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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PlOko00on
16 Posts
soO and INnoVation have all fallen from their primes. rofl | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Great contribution yo, care to explain what's so funny about this factually correct statement? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:40 OtherWorld wrote: Lacks biceps pics, but good article Also lacks van Gogh. | ||
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PlOko00on
16 Posts
Great contribution yo still better than all the "lmao lilbow", "lolbow" or "lol lilbow" comments in the first page factually correct statement? It is not factually correct. It is not because that you say that something is a fact that specific thing is a fact. If you people followed the scene for more than 6 month or if you were not so envy to use "edgy" formules for you articles you wouldn't actually believe that Innovation has fallen. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:53 PlOko00on wrote: still better than all the "lmao lilbow", "lolbow" or "lol lilbow" comments in the first page It is not factually correct. It is not because that you say that something is a fact that specific thing is a fact. If you people followed the scene for more than 6 month or if you were not so envy to use "edgy" formules for you articles you wouldn't actually believe that Innovation has fallen. So are you saying he has always been as completely average as he is now? He has done nothing in LotV but he's one of the all-time greats of HotS. He might not make it past the opening round in any tournament this year. You can't help but call this a fall. We call it a fall because we hold him to a high standard as a 2x GSL champion, if he has 0 good tournament runs, he's not playing in his prime capacity. Heck, his offline TvP win rate in LotV is 35%. That is clearly far below his peak capacity and far below what anyone expects from him. He lost to jjakji in the SSL qualifiers. That is also below what is expected from him. So to what standard do you hold INnoVation that you so confidently say he hasn't fallen off? | ||
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NinjaToss
Austria1383 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:53 PlOko00on wrote: still better than all the "lmao lilbow", "lolbow" or "lol lilbow" comments in the first page It is not factually correct. It is not because that you say that something is a fact that specific thing is a fact. If you people followed the scene for more than 6 month or if you were not so envy to use "edgy" formules for you articles you wouldn't actually believe that Innovation has fallen. Can you explain to me how is losing to jjakji, or Stork, or failing to qualify for the SSL this season not means that INnoVation has fallen? | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
On May 28 2016 16:03 Silvana wrote: Diabolique is not the next sackofwetmice, he is more like swag_bro: "Zest is in a slump!" swag bro had style | ||
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NinjaToss
Austria1383 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:40 OtherWorld wrote: Lacks biceps pics, but good article thank you for you contribution | ||
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Alarak89
United States882 Posts
On May 28 2016 17:27 Elentos wrote: It doesn't. Mvp is by consensus one of the greatest players of all time and the King of WoL. He had 2 win rates below 60% even in WoL. They declined heavily in late WoL because of his severe health issues (before 2012 all his win rates were far above 60%). The raw win rate doesn't tell you that. Life has 1 win rate below 60%. You're basically saying that Life, the second most earning and arguably most accomplished SC2 player of all time, was not on the same level as sOs and INnoVation, solely because one of his win rates was 2% lower than your arbitrary 60% benchmark. Life ruining his career with matchfixing aside, you should realize that's that's absurd and that your 60% benchmark is not helpful. Moreover, from LP's definition of the term "bonjwa": Nobody is close to being a bonjwa, great win rates or not, since no streak of dominance has ever been long enough to warrant the title. Well, I never say MVP is a Bonwja since his win rate was below 60%. He was strong in early WoL only because Kespa was not "transformed" into SC2 completely till July 2012. He will be destroyed by any top tier Kespa player nowadays if he is still playing. But yeah, Life is a great player in terms of skills, and he had three out of four win rates above 60% as well, so clearly win rate is one of the (and probably the most important) indicators to evaluate how good a player is overall. LP can say whatever they want, but I only trust in numbers because they are "objective". IMO, the overall win rate is almost "equivalent" to the probability that a player will win any type of championship. For example, sOs has the highest win rate in the league so far, he also had won seven offline individual championships (which is one of the most). | ||
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PlOko00on
16 Posts
The SSL, the GSL and proleague. Innovation still has a great pro-league record even if he didn't play that much. In SSL, he was one of the 3 terran to qualify then lost two tvz in a row and was out. One of those was against soO. In hots tvz was probably his strongest match-up. He was the most solid mmmm player in the world and then at the end of the expansion was the best defensive mech player. Both of those style are not viable against RR into Ultra strategies that zergs were doing back then. In SSL he lost to Stork in a 3-2 TvP series. TvP never has been his strongest match-up and even if that series happened post adept nerf we need to remember that the TvP is played completely differently than how it was played in hots. Also, he is not the type of player that I except to do well in a environnement where the meta-game is changing so fast. He needs time for it to settle, adapt to it, and then perfect his builds/game plan consequently. People love to shit on jjakji for some reason. He is a gsl champion who proved himself to be one one of the 10 best terran for a long period of time. He might not make it past the opening round in any tournament this year. Yeah, and Hartsem, PtiDrogo won a premier each. What does this mean? It is not Inno fault if the whole pro circuit is trash and meaningless. He has done nothing in LotV but he's one of the all-time greats of HotS. In my opinion he is the greatest hots player. Are you all saying that his intrinsic skill just disappeared? Less than a handful of tournament is not enough to judge if a player has fallen or not. Don't disrespect players that proved multiples timestheir worth like that. | ||
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