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On May 28 2016 03:20 swissman777 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 03:14 rotta wrote:On May 28 2016 03:06 megatroneo wrote:
Wait why aren't Maru or sOs considered "remaining titans"? Probably because Zest has won more GSL's than the whole JAGW, dunno. But less starleague than maru, same amount of standard league wins in KR to maru, and no blizzcon cups. What's your point?
Zest has two starleague wins, same as Maru. But Zest also has a KeSPA cup and GSL championship in Korea. Neither has a Blizzcon, but Zest has his IEM WC outside Korea.
Maru could get up there, he has been good enough for a long enough period of time, but he doesn't have many wins to show for it thus far.
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OK, enough with this. Zest is not bad ... more precisely - Zest was quite good. But the author did not mention the most recent developments. We need to face the truth:
ZEST IS A LOOSER!
Look at him, how many matches has he won during the last time? More precisely - how many matches has he lost? Sorry but wherever I look, I see Zest losing. From the last 5 matches, how many has he lost? Three our of five? Four out of five? Sorry to destroy your wet dreams about a titan ;-)
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hmmm not enough respect paid to Parting jmo..
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On May 28 2016 09:28 thecrazymunchkin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 08:47 Phredxor wrote:On May 28 2016 07:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:While i like that Zest gets an own article i completely disagree with and possibly the last player that may be able to surpass Mvp as the Greatest SC2 player of All Time. While it is unfortunate that there is less depth than ever before in Korean SC2 with the number of retirements No Zest isn't the only player and no korean sc2 doesn't have less depth than ever before either. You use this as a fact without any reasoning how you come to the conclusion. A lot of the so called "titans" in this article weren't relevant for a very long time, so that cannot be it. Really? The players left may be more skilled now but i think it's hard to argue against there being less depth. Less teams, smaller rosters, it's pretty self explanatory i reckon. I miss 2012-2013 pro league with all the old BW names as well as GSTL finishing up. Nice article stuchiu. Love me some Zest hype. The top 8 are roughly as good as a top 8's been throughout SC2; everyone below 8 has dropped off in quality. Just compare #9-16 from KR 2012-2015 to now, for instance
See maybe you are right, but if you wanna use these statements as fact in articles, especially when it is kinda essential for your reasoning then you should actually prove that statement beforehand.
So yeah i think there should be an article about this very topic, especially if you wanna use it as a fact.
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On May 28 2016 09:37 Diabolique wrote:
OK, enough with this. Zest is not bad ... more precisely - Zest was quite good. But the author did not mention the most recent developments. We need to face the truth:
ZEST IS A LOOSER!
Look at him, how many matches has he won during the last time? More precisely - how many matches has he lost? Sorry but wherever I look, I see Zest losing. From the last 5 matches, how many has he lost? Three our of five? Four out of five? Sorry to destroy your wet dreams about a titan ;-)
Sometimes I have a hard time telling if you're trolling or not 
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On May 28 2016 10:07 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 09:37 Diabolique wrote:
OK, enough with this. Zest is not bad ... more precisely - Zest was quite good. But the author did not mention the most recent developments. We need to face the truth:
ZEST IS A LOOSER!
Look at him, how many matches has he won during the last time? More precisely - how many matches has he lost? Sorry but wherever I look, I see Zest losing. From the last 5 matches, how many has he lost? Three our of five? Four out of five? Sorry to destroy your wet dreams about a titan ;-) Sometimes I have a hard time telling if you're trolling or not
I've gone with the assumption everything he writes is just trolling. Safer that way 
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On May 28 2016 04:11 Haighstrom wrote:
I honestly think it is far too much at this point to say Zest is the best player ever, and only player contending for that spot still active.
herO was the best protoss by a country mile in HOTS for far longer (about 5 ladder seasons) than Zest has been the best Protoss in HOTS/Legacy combined (one season each).
Let's not forget that Innovation, Maru, herO, Dark, sOs, byul are still here, and just because most of them have had a few months of being "lukewarm", Zest had about 2 years of being distinctly average between his GSLs (below Classic, Rain, Stats, SoS and herO in my opinion).
It is indisputable that Zest is the best player right now, and a contender for best player ever. But in my opinion that doesn't warrant this article's level of hyperbole, and I think you have seriously overlooked other players contention for that title, by narrowing your vision to the state of play "right now".
My personal prediction is that Innovation will gradually creep up to the top again, because he's all about slowly and inexorably perfecting his play, but isn't very good at changing his style quickly, so hasn't adjusted to LOTV yet.
herO was super consistent but not the titan or emperor or anything. He was a very good player but didn't have Zest's king aura.
Maru actually had rather long slumps until late HotS, Dark came late HotS, sOs only wins $100,000 tournaments, ByuL was late HotS too. All of which points to a rather biased view for late HotS. Not to mention when Zest was good, he was good. Like roflstomp Taeja Summer 2013 level of good or lolol Life late 2014/early 2015 level of good. Aka when you saw you were up against him in a tournament or league you wrote your resignation letter, will, and visited your family before you were disgraced on live TV and couldn't show your face to them ever again.
But yeah, I do agree it's too early to call Zest the best yet since it's rather early.
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On May 28 2016 10:07 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 09:37 Diabolique wrote:
OK, enough with this. Zest is not bad ... more precisely - Zest was quite good. But the author did not mention the most recent developments. We need to face the truth:
ZEST IS A LOOSER!
Look at him, how many matches has he won during the last time? More precisely - how many matches has he lost? Sorry but wherever I look, I see Zest losing. From the last 5 matches, how many has he lost? Three our of five? Four out of five? Sorry to destroy your wet dreams about a titan ;-) Sometimes I have a hard time telling if you're trolling or not
On May 28 2016 10:20 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 10:07 Silvana wrote:On May 28 2016 09:37 Diabolique wrote:
OK, enough with this. Zest is not bad ... more precisely - Zest was quite good. But the author did not mention the most recent developments. We need to face the truth:
ZEST IS A LOOSER!
Look at him, how many matches has he won during the last time? More precisely - how many matches has he lost? Sorry but wherever I look, I see Zest losing. From the last 5 matches, how many has he lost? Three our of five? Four out of five? Sorry to destroy your wet dreams about a titan ;-) Sometimes I have a hard time telling if you're trolling or not I've gone with the assumption everything he writes is just trolling. Safer that way
These KT unbelievers ... it is a valid question, but you are asking this question only in order not to have to ask the real question: "IS HE RIGHT? WHAT IS ZEST'S SCORE FROM THE LAST 5 MATCHES?"
EDIT:
What about a new slogan?
Instead of "ZEST IS BEST", we could use: "ZEST HAS LOST" ;-)
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When making the assertion this player or that player is a Titan...one does not simply look at the last 5 matches.
One takes into account season after season. There is very little doubt that Zest is the best player in the world atm.
That said the article does have some odd quips that weaken its punch (oh we are all writing critics here) - no need to mention Lilbow or Marineking or Life (especially that last one). No one actually knows the extent of Life's fixing or illegality - does one credit Armstrong for the races he supposedly won without doping? NO, once a cheat always a cheat, in both past and future. FORGET LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The overall truth of the matter is yes players have beaten Zest and recently, but 2015 and 2016 thus far, Zest has been Dominant and two more major wins will metamorphose him into the Titan the article claims him to be.
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When I look at Zest's PvT and PvZ lifetime winning rate, I suddenly realized that he is far from Bonwja.
60% offline event winning rate against Korean player is a magic number for SC2 history, and obviously, sOs is the closest man to that title, all he needs to do is to win a GSL/SSL champion.
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On May 28 2016 11:10 AxiomBlurr wrote:
When making the assertion this player or that player is a Titan...one does not simply look at the last 5 matches.
One takes into account season after season. There is very little doubt that Zest is the best player in the world atm.
That said the article does have some odd quips that weaken its punch (oh we are all writing critics here) - no need to mention Lilbow or Marineking or Life (especially that last one). No one actually knows the extent of Life's fixing or illegality - does one credit Armstrong for the races he supposedly won without doping? NO, once a cheat always a cheat, in both past and future. FORGET LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The overall truth of the matter is yes players have beaten Zest and recently, but 2015 and 2016 thus far, Zest has been Dominant and two more major wins will metamorphose him into the Titan the article claims him to be.
OK, I am not saying, he is bad ...I just see some weakness coming ... who knows, if he qualifies for SSL ;-0
No no no no!!! Don't criticize Armstrong! He did not cheat! He really won that race for the US! He really did the one step, "small step for a man, a giant leap for humanity!" It was not a hoax! They said in TV, it was a real step!
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On May 28 2016 11:10 AxiomBlurr wrote:
When making the assertion this player or that player is a Titan...one does not simply look at the last 5 matches.
One takes into account season after season. There is very little doubt that Zest is the best player in the world atm.
That said the article does have some odd quips that weaken its punch (oh we are all writing critics here) - no need to mention Lilbow or Marineking or Life (especially that last one). No one actually knows the extent of Life's fixing or illegality - does one credit Armstrong for the races he supposedly won without doping? NO, once a cheat always a cheat, in both past and future. FORGET LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The overall truth of the matter is yes players have beaten Zest and recently, but 2015 and 2016 thus far, Zest has been Dominant and two more major wins will metamorphose him into the Titan the article claims him to be.
I think it's a bit different in those situations to be fair. Armonstrong WON by cheating. Life LOST by cheating. All of Lifes' wins are legit, whereas you can question every single one of Armstrongs. You can't doubt Life was an amazing player, if a bit of scumbag.
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On May 28 2016 11:25 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 11:10 AxiomBlurr wrote:
When making the assertion this player or that player is a Titan...one does not simply look at the last 5 matches.
One takes into account season after season. There is very little doubt that Zest is the best player in the world atm.
That said the article does have some odd quips that weaken its punch (oh we are all writing critics here) - no need to mention Lilbow or Marineking or Life (especially that last one). No one actually knows the extent of Life's fixing or illegality - does one credit Armstrong for the races he supposedly won without doping? NO, once a cheat always a cheat, in both past and future. FORGET LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The overall truth of the matter is yes players have beaten Zest and recently, but 2015 and 2016 thus far, Zest has been Dominant and two more major wins will metamorphose him into the Titan the article claims him to be. I think it's a bit different in those situations to be fair. Armonstrong WON by cheating. Life LOST by cheating. All of Lifes' wins are legit, whereas you can question every single one of Armstrongs. You can't doubt Life was an amazing player, if a bit of scumbag.
Not so, that was my point, we do not know the depth of Life's illegality. It is also a possibility (and given the strength of the illegal gambling syndicates in South Korea, it would not be surprising) if a percentage of his wins were due to throws from his opponents, of which he had knowlegde. We just do not know with certainty. BUT the one thing we do know is that he colluded with the gambling syndicates in the past, that most certainly throws all his matches into doubt for me. Note that word doubt... its as simple as that....his results....cannot be trusted.
Zest on other hand - All his results speak with the same voice, the same tone, the same conviction, the same blade, the same truth, the same might: "FOR AIUR!"
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Zest's pvp didn't look too impressive in that WCS Korea the other day against Stats. Actually his play looked far below that of his recent GSL win. I don't know if it's because Stats's pvp made him look bad, or if Zest was just having a bad day.
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On May 28 2016 12:29 AxiomBlurr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 11:25 Phredxor wrote:On May 28 2016 11:10 AxiomBlurr wrote:
When making the assertion this player or that player is a Titan...one does not simply look at the last 5 matches.
One takes into account season after season. There is very little doubt that Zest is the best player in the world atm.
That said the article does have some odd quips that weaken its punch (oh we are all writing critics here) - no need to mention Lilbow or Marineking or Life (especially that last one). No one actually knows the extent of Life's fixing or illegality - does one credit Armstrong for the races he supposedly won without doping? NO, once a cheat always a cheat, in both past and future. FORGET LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The overall truth of the matter is yes players have beaten Zest and recently, but 2015 and 2016 thus far, Zest has been Dominant and two more major wins will metamorphose him into the Titan the article claims him to be. I think it's a bit different in those situations to be fair. Armonstrong WON by cheating. Life LOST by cheating. All of Lifes' wins are legit, whereas you can question every single one of Armstrongs. You can't doubt Life was an amazing player, if a bit of scumbag. Not so, that was my point, we do not know the depth of Life's illegality. It is also a possibility (and given the strength of the illegal gambling syndicates in South Korea, it would not be surprising) if a percentage of his wins were due to throws from his opponents, of which he had knowlegde. We just do not know with certainty. BUT the one thing we do know is that he colluded with the gambling syndicates in the past, that most certainly throws all his matches into doubt for me. Note that word doubt... its as simple as that....his results....cannot be trusted. Zest on other hand - All his results speak with the same voice, the same tone, the same conviction, the same blade, the same truth, the same might: "FOR AIUR!"
Who knows. If people are so much into match fixing as you imply with Life, maybe people lost in matchfixing against Zest too.
Sigh. What ridiculousness. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that player's wins aren't real especially when they have to go through a whole bracket to win. Zest beating Rain, soO, sOs, Dear, and Soulkey to get the gold at 2014 GSL Season 1 was absolutely amazing. Just as was his dominant run through GSL Season 1 this year. But Life was just as dominant in his peaks throughout HotS. Unless everyone was involved in matchfixing from 2012 and Life was getting all the free wins from it as you suggest, you have to give him credit for his multiple GSL's, MLG's, WCS World Championship, Dreamhacks, and IEM's stretching over these years. And if you don't want to give him credit for all of his wins (which notion is ridiculous since matchfixing is when a player fixes to lose, you don't matchfix to win), you still have to give him credit for at least some of his tourney wins. Also, unless you want to accuse the whole player base of matchfixing, you have to give players credit for their wins. Zest did not get the gold because all the players he was up against lost on purpose and you can't assume the same for Life.
I get it sucks that a top player was involved in matchfixing. But rather than making ridiculous claims and then making your favorite player the only exception, it would be better to actually face the facts of the matter and think logically.
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We'll see how this season goes. Zest has actually looked mortal again after his GSL win; and including qualifiers, I think Maru has literally won 19 professional games in a row (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at this point. Maru has of course inherited MarineKing's ability to get my hopes up and then dash them, but it's always possible that this is his season to finally metamorphose into the all-devouring cosmic monster I always hope for...
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On May 28 2016 13:30 neutralrobot wrote:
We'll see how this season goes. Zest has actually looked mortal again after his GSL win; and including qualifiers, I think Maru has literally won 19 professional games in a row (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at this point. Maru has of course inherited MarineKing's ability to get my hopes up and then dash them, but it's always possible that this is his season to finally metamorphose into the all-devouring cosmic monster I always hope for...
I believe, Zest is broken. Maru has broken him. That was a match, he needed to win, the most important match of the whole season. And he lost. In preparation, he lost to Snute, but I believe, he just did not want to spend the time on some online tournament in the preparation to the Proleague finals. But against Maru, he needed to win. And he did not. Then, he was broken and lost against Stats.
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On May 28 2016 14:03 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 13:30 neutralrobot wrote:
We'll see how this season goes. Zest has actually looked mortal again after his GSL win; and including qualifiers, I think Maru has literally won 19 professional games in a row (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at this point. Maru has of course inherited MarineKing's ability to get my hopes up and then dash them, but it's always possible that this is his season to finally metamorphose into the all-devouring cosmic monster I always hope for... I believe, Zest is broken. Maru has broken him. That was a match, he needed to win, the most important match of the whole season. And he lost. In preparation, he lost to Snute, but I believe, he just did not want to spend the time on some online tournament in the preparation to the Proleague finals. But against Maru, he needed to win. And he did not. Then, he was broken and lost against Stats.
Lost one map to Maru, broken. Never change Diabolique. You could become the new sackofwetmice if you keep this up
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On May 28 2016 14:04 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 14:03 Diabolique wrote:On May 28 2016 13:30 neutralrobot wrote:
We'll see how this season goes. Zest has actually looked mortal again after his GSL win; and including qualifiers, I think Maru has literally won 19 professional games in a row (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at this point. Maru has of course inherited MarineKing's ability to get my hopes up and then dash them, but it's always possible that this is his season to finally metamorphose into the all-devouring cosmic monster I always hope for... I believe, Zest is broken. Maru has broken him. That was a match, he needed to win, the most important match of the whole season. And he lost. In preparation, he lost to Snute, but I believe, he just did not want to spend the time on some online tournament in the preparation to the Proleague finals. But against Maru, he needed to win. And he did not. Then, he was broken and lost against Stats. Lost one map to Maru, broken. Never change Diabolique. You could become the new sackofwetmice if you keep this up
Hey, Phredxor, I am sorry, but I do not get you. :-) I do not get your comment "Never change Diabolique". I am really sorry. I also do not get the sackofwetmice, but that is due to my bad English, so that is not a problem. But that "Never change Diabolique" is a problem. Can you, please, explain it to me?
Maybe, the problem is on your side and you did not understand what I wrote. Maybe due to my bad English ... So I will try to explain it to you in some simple words:
I always acknowledged Zest as one of the best players, although I am not his fan. In the last two weeks, I witnessed Zest losing to everybody, Zerg, Terran and Protoss. He won one match against Protoss. Then, I read Stuciu's article, which is fine, and then I get to the part of his fans, who shout "Zest is best". So I write here that he has actually lost more games than he won in the last week. And that if he was such a Titan, he would probably not lose it. And I suggest one explanation - Zerg loss, he did not concentrate, Terran loss was a real loss and he became so frustrated from it that he could not concentrate on the next Protoss match. I could rephrase it "I sense weakness". Can you please, explain to me the "Never change Diabolique"? Thanks
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EPT
