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On May 21 2016 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 05:57 Vanadiel wrote:
While I would agree with Kespa feedback on balance which is representative of the balance of the game in Korea, where we have : Zest > Terran > Protoss > Zerg, the revert to 4 larva would be, in my opinion, a big mistake and something extremely hard to balance.
Now, for protoss, if they are committed to nerfing them, it's reaaaally time to look at revelation and/or tempest. Tempest being 4 supply is ridiculous enough, but the range/energy cost/AOE of revelation is what's make tempest too strong. revelation is fine, it's an original and rather well done spell. Tempest supply on the other hand makes little sense, a raise in supply has been advocated for for ages...
I don't think revelation should last as long as it does tbh. It's easy to get a tag (and not lose the oracle in the process), and you can't do anything with the tagged part of the army as long as it is tagged (except trying to distract), even when there's no tempests.
I'm not saying it's broken or anything, but in SC2 a minute is an eternity.
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btw, what about a spell for terran, that could temporarely reduce the armor of a unit? maybe for the ghost. this would fix the "terran cant do anything against ultras" without making the ultras to weak, if the energy cost (or cd) would be high enough.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I'm not saying it's broken or anything, but in SC2 a minute is an eternity.
It lasts 43 seconds.
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On May 21 2016 06:09 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 21 2016 05:57 Vanadiel wrote:
While I would agree with Kespa feedback on balance which is representative of the balance of the game in Korea, where we have : Zest > Terran > Protoss > Zerg, the revert to 4 larva would be, in my opinion, a big mistake and something extremely hard to balance.
Now, for protoss, if they are committed to nerfing them, it's reaaaally time to look at revelation and/or tempest. Tempest being 4 supply is ridiculous enough, but the range/energy cost/AOE of revelation is what's make tempest too strong. revelation is fine, it's an original and rather well done spell. Tempest supply on the other hand makes little sense, a raise in supply has been advocated for for ages... I don't think revelation should last as long as it does tbh. It's easy to get a tag (and not lose the oracle in the process), and you can't do anything with the tagged part of the army as long as it is tagged (except trying to distract), even when there's no tempests. I'm not saying it's broken or anything, but in SC2 a minute is an eternity.
It could be shorter I kinda agree, but as you say it's not a major problem at all.
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On May 21 2016 06:13 Cyro wrote:It lasts 43 seconds
Even a HotS minute is an eternity.
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On May 21 2016 06:13 DalaiiLameR wrote:
btw, what about a spell for terran, that could temporarely reduce the armor of a unit? maybe for the ghost. this would fix the "terran cant do anything against ultras" without making the ultras to weak, if the energy cost (or cd) would be high enough.
They tried this during beta. Nobody liked it.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On May 21 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 06:13 Cyro wrote:I'm not saying it's broken or anything, but in SC2 a minute is an eternity. It lasts 43 seconds Even a HotS minute is an eternity.
Immortal Barrier also has a 43 second cooldown and people talk about that as if it's really short every day
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On May 21 2016 06:15 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 06:14 Elentos wrote:On May 21 2016 06:13 Cyro wrote:I'm not saying it's broken or anything, but in SC2 a minute is an eternity. It lasts 43 seconds Even a HotS minute is an eternity. Immortal Barrier also has a 43 second cooldown and people talk about that as if it's really short every day
Tbh I've not seen any serious person say that the barrier cooldown is short. It really isn't. It's about as long as it should be for an ability that strong.
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On May 21 2016 06:15 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 06:13 DalaiiLameR wrote:
btw, what about a spell for terran, that could temporarely reduce the armor of a unit? maybe for the ghost. this would fix the "terran cant do anything against ultras" without making the ultras to weak, if the energy cost (or cd) would be high enough. They tried this during beta. Nobody liked it.
No one liked it because it was awful and poorly implemented. Also, an armor reducing effect designed specifically to cancel out an armor buff is just dumb.
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On May 21 2016 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 05:57 Vanadiel wrote:
While I would agree with Kespa feedback on balance which is representative of the balance of the game in Korea, where we have : Zest > Terran > Protoss > Zerg, the revert to 4 larva would be, in my opinion, a big mistake and something extremely hard to balance.
Now, for protoss, if they are committed to nerfing them, it's reaaaally time to look at revelation and/or tempest. Tempest being 4 supply is ridiculous enough, but the range/energy cost/AOE of revelation is what's make tempest too strong. revelation is fine, it's an original and rather well done spell. Tempest supply on the other hand makes little sense, a raise in supply has been advocated for for ages...
The design of revelation is okay, I agree. But not the number. it's a 50 energy spell that last one entire minute, meaning that you can almost continuously tag an army with a single oracle because when the spell ends you're almost back to 50 energy anyway. It's a 9 range so not a single Zerg unit can prevent it, it has an AOE of 5 which is enough to tag an entire army, gives the spell an effective range of 14 and you detect all the cloaked units during that time. Either the range, the AOE or the time the spell is active must be diminished.
As said like this, to me it's already quite problematic. But the combo with Tempest... There is literally no counter-play.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
It lasts 43 seconds and has about 60% uptime IIRC, not sure on the exact energy regeneration stat. If you nerf energy specifically then people will just use 4-5 oracles instead of 2-3.
Oracle detection is pretty bad in some other situations - playing stargate into DT worked much better with the old revelation.
The revelation spell was specifically added to give protoss reliable detection to tech paths that were not robotics facility, so i'm sad to see it go this way and then get talks of nerfs.
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Canada16699 Posts
On May 21 2016 05:27 DinoMight wrote:
This game has become absurdly stupid.
I miss hots, really.
nothing is stopping you from playing it and building your own community of like minded people similar to the community around brood war. i have low league friends that still play WoL 2v2s because they feel the expansions are too complex.
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Please don't do any major balance skewing changes, clearly it is not known which is a clear stronger race and furthermore we do not know if the right response is used currently. Instead of trying to balance a balanced game, try to change some design for the better or improve how much the best players wins by.
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On May 21 2016 06:03 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 05:57 Vanadiel wrote:
While I would agree with Kespa feedback on balance which is representative of the balance of the game in Korea, where we have : Zest > Terran > Protoss > Zerg, the revert to 4 larva would be, in my opinion, a big mistake and something extremely hard to balance.
Now, for protoss, if they are committed to nerfing them, it's reaaaally time to look at revelation and/or tempest. Tempest being 4 supply is ridiculous enough, but the range/energy cost/AOE of revelation is what's make tempest too strong. revelation is fine, it's an original and rather well done spell. Tempest supply on the other hand makes little sense, a raise in supply has been advocated for for ages...
Revelation would indeed be a cool ability if it lasted 10-20 seconds instead of an hour...
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A Warp Prism nerf
Always welcome any solution to buff terran's early game.
An additional nerf to the Liberator’s targeting its anti-ground mode
I knew this day will come,not surprise.
Zerg Larva inject buff back to giving 4 per
FUCK OFF SOLAR!
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i think the larva change is a game changing change...
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I can understand the first 2 nerfs, but I don't understand the larvae buff. Returning to 4 larvae just seems uninspired and unneccessary. Perhaps like the nonsensical proposed cannon buff, the idea is to promote another style of play in a certain matchup?
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On May 21 2016 07:10 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I can understand the first 2 nerfs, but I don't understand the larvae buff. Returning to 4 larvae just seems uninspired and unneccessary. Perhaps like the nonsensical proposed cannon buff, the idea is to promote another style of play in a certain matchup?
The difference is while the cannon buff was a really inelegant and probably ineffective solution to perceived problem, it wasn't that dangerous. Returning to 4 larva seems potentially broken.
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Warp prism change - yes, it's been too strong for a while, the pick up range needs to be toned down.
Liberator - Terran is already the weakest race atm, nerfing Terran more will make a lot of people lose interest in SC2.
Cyclone - 4 supply is an outright nerf and slap in the face to anyone that knows anything about SC2.
Larva inject - nope, not happening. Will ruin the game. You cannot re-buff this because chrono/mule are weakened in LOTV.
Swarmhost - what? Nerfing cyclone for no reason, but bringing back this awful unit? yeah...
I have no words. Or rather i do have words, but i'd rather not say them because it's all been said before, and it's all quite depressing to me.
edit:
actually saw dinomight's comment and 100% agree
On May 21 2016 05:27 DinoMight wrote:
This game has become absurdly stupid.
I miss hots, really.
Imo, i'd rather have HOTS back with balance changes such as raven/tempest/air nerfs. Then at least we'd have mech play back and none of the 8 armor / invincible nydus worm / reaper all-ins every game =/
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Funny that no foreigner can play Terran, almost since Wol ... Dreamhack, no terran but Kor. Suddendly, noobs like showtime and nerchio show off why ?? because for foreigners noob level, Zerg and Toss are clearyl to EZ to play.
Yeah, at better level, Kespa, things are different, but we can't rely just on godlike Kor play to balance a game..
The approach is bad, still..
Still you won't see any foreigner Terran performing, Terran will stay the weakest race.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
