EPTPatch and Map Updates Coming Next Week - Page 5
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coolmiyo
51 Posts
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Athenau
570 Posts
We haven't seen them because 2 liberators are a far better gas investment in every possible way. Even if we completely removed liberators, tanks would probably be a far better gas investment in every possible way. Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has. Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On May 18 2016 19:46 Athenau wrote: Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has. Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS. Thors are so hilariously bad against protoss because they get 8 shotted by immortals. Has to be the worst investment you can make. Both the colossus buff and the liberator nerf won't change the fact that TvP will only be about wether liberators can kill everything or wether protoss harass the terran to death. Everything terran has except the liberator sucks so hard, but the liberator is so OP it makes up to it all. And the patch won't change anything about how stupid this MU is. | ||
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
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PressureSC2
122 Posts
And the patch won't change anything about how stupid this MU is. Given how many changes are occuring, I am prepared to wait to see the result but at the same time I do hope that if it ends up being insufficient to give factory based production setups what is needed to succeed - Blizzard would proceed with a new test map to address this asap. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On May 18 2016 19:46 Athenau wrote: Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has. Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS. No we won't, specifically against colos, because vikings and tanks are the better unit against them. Thors are slow, clunky, easy to pick off, hard to use effectively, basically every possible reason you can think of why a unit could be bad the thor tries to be all of them at once. | ||
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Athenau
570 Posts
No we won't, specifically against colos, because vikings and tanks are the better unit against them. Thors are slow, clunky, easy to pick off, hard to use effectively, basically every possible reason you can think of why a unit could be bad the thor tries to be all of them at once. Vikings are vulnerable to storm, easily picked off by stalkers (thors have more HP per cost and supply and 1 base armor), scale better with upgrades, don't compete for starport time, and do something like twice the ground dps per supply and even more per cost. If you could zone out colossus with thors and liberators, why on earth would you ever build vikings? | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1105 Posts
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TronJovolta
United States323 Posts
On May 18 2016 04:38 Beelzebub1 wrote: Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only. The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport. Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not. The changes to the Cyclone and Swarm Hosts are quite literally useless, the problem with these units isn't the cost or the supply, it's how they work. Change the Cyclone to be an all purpose massable (but not overpowered) factory foot men unit that can provide mobile anti - air for mech armies and change the Swarm Host to...well...pretty much anything else then what it does. At least change it so it has some type of identity and strategic value, why would I ever build Swarm Hosts to siege when I can build Lurkers which come from my general combat soldiers or just spend that gas on Greater Spire? I wouldn't even care if they removed the unit from the game at this point. Corrupters are way better than Vikings and can basically autosnipe any building now. Now, libs will literally only be useful against mutas because of Fenix and viper range and speed. Vikings are way worse investments than corrupters, period. | ||
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Orr
United States168 Posts
I was one of the biggest proponents against SH during their heyday in HOTS, but in the hopes of seeing the entire unit reworked, or eliminated and something else added in its place. Death by a thousand nerfs just feels wrong and pointless. And in light of the now-barely-ever used Colussus receiving at least a little something positive, it makes the updated SH stand out even more as an entirely pointless unit. That needs to either be completely removed, or allowed to have actual purpose. If anything, it ends up being a determinant to many players given that Z often mistakenly build 1-2 of them while being distracted and fighting mid-late game while near max. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On May 18 2016 23:00 TronJovolta wrote: How are corruptors better than vikings, simply because they get an ability to damage buildings over a period of time? The only thing corruptors are good against are units which don't shoot back. It's not as if a viking lacks the ability to shoot buildings as well.Corrupters are way better than Vikings and can basically autosnipe any building now. Now, libs will literally only be useful against mutas because of Fenix and viper range and speed. Vikings are way worse investments than corrupters, period. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20323 Posts
On May 18 2016 19:33 WigglingSquid wrote: I may be one of the few watchers who miss the old Immortal. Obvious strengths and weaknesses without yet more timed spells that are hard to track and manage beyond sheer "mass 'em up and let them do their thing". Old immortal was about hard counters, new one is less countery and less easily countered. Though with 100 shields, i think it's actually worse than the old immortal. The 50 mineral reduction is beyond meaningless to a Z at that stage in the game It's a 1.2x reduction in cost - sure, the cost comes out of minerals and not gas, but it's relevant. Your 6 swarm hosts now come with a free hatchery $$$ | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
But al in all, not a big change. I am glad that the Immortal shield barrier is nerf. Plus changing those maps is a good change. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On May 18 2016 23:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote: How are corruptors better than vikings, simply because they get an ability to damage buildings over a period of time? The only thing corruptors are good against are units which don't shoot back. It's not as if a viking lacks the ability to shoot buildings as well. Because they are, corruptors defeat vikings straight up | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20323 Posts
Plus the fact that the increase in supply doesn't mean you don't spend less min. You just put the money to pump 1-2 more OL to get that supply up. Plus it takes up more supply for you to build other units. It costs 12.5 minerals per supply (which is a quarter of the price reduction) but you also have to take several other things into account. Supply has a larvae cost (1 per 8 supply) If you go up to 100 supply, trade down to 50 supply and then continue building and losing units around 50-90 supply, you will not pay anything for the unit costing extra supply until you're supply blocked again. If you build one army comp that takes you to 80/100 or another that takes you to 90/100, they'll both cost you the same and not require additional overlords until if and when you're hitting 100/100 again | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On May 21 2016 01:27 MockHamill wrote: Is there any unit test map for these changes? So that one can test the new Thors versus capital ships? I was looking for that to. But then, what are you going to test? Tempests have 893274 range and the change doesn't matter, BL have more range, Vipers have the same and they only need to hit once to kill the thor, Libs have 14 after the upgrade, it's really only the BC that will feel the brunt on the change. The armored units that are a problem are not going to be countered in any way by the slow, expensive, lower range thor. It's still vikings that will do the job. The Thor might, might, be a better support unit. It's a step in the right direction none the less. But like the buff to the rate of fire of the Tank, it's a buff, a buff that is no where near enough to matter for anything. GtA is a problem for the factory (and SC2 in general), but the real problem is with the strength of air units. Tempests, BLs, Libs need to have less range. You can't have the ultimate assault unit be a flying one and expect good gameplay. Next patch nerf air pls, especially range. Mobility and range should never be on the same unit. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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