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Thanks for working together with us on both the upcoming patch changes and the map updates. This weekend brings the majority of the big events for this season to a close, so we are aiming to release both the balance patch and the map updates next week. We intend to implement the changes that we have been testing and improving the past months, and below is the list: Swarm Host - Cost reduced from 200/100 to 150/100
- Supply cost increased from 3 to 4
Liberator - Anti-air damage changed to 5 (+2 light)
Cyclone - Cost reduced to 150/100
- Supply cost up from 3 to 4
Immortal - Barrier absorb down from 200 to 100
Colossus Thor - Add a second mode of attack:
- 35 +15 armored damage per 3 seconds (or 2.14 seconds in real time)
Map Changes - Removed Watchtowers on Frozen Temple
Additionally, in agreement with the feedback from both our top pros and our community, we will be adding both Frost and King Sejong while removing Prion Terraces and Korhal Carnage during the upcoming balance patch. As mentioned above, we will also be doing a minor update to Frozen Temple of removing the watch towers on the map due to the feedback of advantage swinging too hard depending on who controls it. Thank you, and we will discuss the other topics for this week in the weekly update later this week!
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In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now?
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That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. The immortal change is really big--seeing how PvZ will shape up after this will be... interesting.
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On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now?
Perhaps the engine still runs in blizzard time, so they have to recalculate it to real time manually. Just a theory.
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These are some pretty big changes.
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Did I just read that King Jaedong Station is coming back in? That's effing crazy. I remember a lot of fun games on Frost too
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On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from.
I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players
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On May 18 2016 03:32 pundurs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now? Perhaps the engine still runs in blizzard time, so they have to recalculate it to real time manually. Just a theory.
I guess so. Ever since LotV, Blizzard have been giving time values in old game seconds, even though the game displays real seconds now. My guess is it still runs on old game time, only the values displayed are divided by 1.4.
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so Thors have again 2 attacks modes?
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On May 18 2016 03:43 Topin wrote:
so Thors have again 2 attacks modes?
Yes.
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On May 18 2016 03:45 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
inb4 mass blink on frost
I still have nightmares 
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On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players
Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it?
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On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now?
The Thor's ground to air attack in Wings of Liberty/Heart of the Swarm game time was 3 seconds. But Legacy of the Void adjusted the game speed to match real time, so the Thor's ground to air attack went from 3 seconds to 2.14 seconds. In the context of your post, Legacy of the Void IS real time. But it is a little confusing that they'd describe the change like that.
I think the important thing to note is that the Thor's alternate mode of fire will have the same attack speed as the other mode, assuming of course I don't have my facts mixed up.
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On May 18 2016 04:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it?
Oh yeah, right. No clue then
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
We can forget about Swarm Host for another year...
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On May 18 2016 03:32 pundurs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now? Perhaps the engine still runs in blizzard time, so they have to recalculate it to real time manually. Just a theory.
I believe this stems from us playing on the "faster" setting. Values are applied to normal speed, the in-game clock is no longer based off the engine. I could be wrong.
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This all looks very, very good.
This update could be the negative of the speed oracle patch.
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Beside Cyclone and swarm host.All change seem very good.
We can put mech in TvP aside and address it later cause right now even bio has trouble against P LOL.
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On May 18 2016 04:33 seemsgood wrote:
Beside Cyclone and swarm host.All change seem very good.
We can put mech in TvP aside and address it later cause right now even bio has trouble against P LOL.
the cyclones and swarm host changes indeed don't look too promising but I don't think they can be harmful.
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Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only.
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport.
Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not.
The changes to the Cyclone and Swarm Hosts are quite literally useless, the problem with these units isn't the cost or the supply, it's how they work. Change the Cyclone to be an all purpose massable (but not overpowered) factory foot men unit that can provide mobile anti - air for mech armies and change the Swarm Host to...well...pretty much anything else then what it does. At least change it so it has some type of identity and strategic value, why would I ever build Swarm Hosts to siege when I can build Lurkers which come from my general combat soldiers or just spend that gas on Greater Spire? I wouldn't even care if they removed the unit from the game at this point.
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hmm.. so the thor change isnt for air attack like it was said before?
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Frost + King Sejong + Frozen Temple
Winter is coming
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Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit.
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On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit.
I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment.
The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build.
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On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit.
10 liberators still can BTFO a bunch of corruptors in 4 hits and that liberator count is not true in late game.
Trust me, mass liberator is still pain in the ass and zerg players won't have a ezpz A-move time.
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Meh I never liked the Liberator and I'm Terran myself. Yet another unit that has to deploy before it can do things.
Atleast the Siege Tank was fun to play with. I'd rather be able to Reactor those out lol.
Also, it's been a while for me, but the Cyclone now has the same supply as a Tempest? Huh.
Cyclone would've been decent if it could kill stuff at a decent rate and not require such a short lock-on where it can get killed.
You could then reduce the leash range to balance things out. 4 supply for a Cyclone now? There are much better uses for 4 supply. If I want long range AA, I'll get two Vikings. And I can land the Vikings. If I want stuff on the ground I'll get two Hellions or a Siege Tank and a Marine.
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On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build.
Sure, but it still doesn't make sense. There's not a balance problem they're solving here and if anything is taking an existing design problem and exacerbating it. They're nerfing it because of what, just people whining about it? They at least should be considering compensatory options that impact the tvz lategame specifically. Touching battlecruisers or something maybe.
However, what if zerg starts figuring out how to better balance defense or maps change and allow getting to late game easier? Then we have a repeat of blord/infestor style gameplay on our hands, which the balance team should be proactive about avoiding.
On May 18 2016 05:21 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. 10 liberators still can BTFO a bunch of corruptors in 4 hits and that liberator count is not true in late game. Trust me, mass liberator is still pain in the ass and zerg players won't have a ezpz A-move time.
With a tiny amount of micro corruptors will very cost effectively kick the crap out of very large numbers of liberators post-patch and that's without considering parasitic bomb use.
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On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build.
That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that.
+ Show Spoiler +you're not comparing Maru vs solar -and TY few last TvZ - to what Avilo does, are you?
Other than this, I'm kind of sad about the removal of XNT on frozen temple, I like maps where you have to control XNT before attacking. But, well, if pros said it had to be done, so be it...
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On May 18 2016 05:52 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. Sure, but it still doesn't make sense. There's not a balance problem they're solving here and if anything is taking an existing design problem and exacerbating it. They're nerfing it because of what, just people whining about it? They at least should be considering compensatory options that impact the tvz lategame specifically. Touching battlecruisers or something maybe. However, what if zerg starts figuring out how to better balance defense or maps change and allow getting to late game easier? Then we have a repeat of blord/infestor style gameplay on our hands, which the balance team should be proactive about avoiding. Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 05:21 seemsgood wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. 10 liberators still can BTFO a bunch of corruptors in 4 hits and that liberator count is not true in late game. Trust me, mass liberator is still pain in the ass and zerg players won't have a ezpz A-move time. With a tiny amount of micro corruptors will very cost effectively kick the crap out of very large numbers of liberators post-patch and that's without considering parasitic bomb use.
I don't see it in pro game :-/ From my perspective,they just weaken the timer for zerg no more no less,ghost + liberator is still very strong even with the nerf.
Unless pros prove me wrong.
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On May 18 2016 06:43 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that.
really? I watch tons of pro level games and can't remember a lategame tvz in the past 1-2 months which terran won. At least in korea I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one and in the last 2 dreamhacks I haven't seen one either.
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I can't believe they're going through the cyclone and SH supply changes. Who'll be stupid enough to invest 4 supply into 120 hp. Even 2 infestors have 180 hps rofl.
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The Cyclone dies to fast for it's cost and now supply. The same supply as a Tempest, jesus!
I like the Thor and the Immortal changes.
Some steps in the right direction IMO. At this rate in a short 3-4 years things might start to look good 
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I still don't believe liberator damage needs to be nerfed like that. It's not the Lib's fault that players can't split or magic box their air units properly. Is there something that I'm not seeing?
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On May 18 2016 03:32 pundurs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now? Perhaps the engine still runs in blizzard time, so they have to recalculate it to real time manually. Just a theory.
It absolutely does.
I have no idea why they didn't just fix the engine directly instead of "just" changing all the GUI information and the displayed clock. The best guess I could come up with is that they were worried that rounding the numbers (since "faster" isn't exactly 1.4 times "fast" and the engine stores things in 1 / 80ths (I think that's the fraction) instead of a true floating point number) could affect balance so they decided it was "easier" to just paper over the truth.
Most of Blizzard's posts are about the engine time for a given thing (think HotS time). It's confusing only because they didn't change the engine, so they actually contend with two different concepts of time now.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
Additionally, in agreement with the feedback from both our top pros and our community, we will be adding both Frost and King Sejong while removing Prion Terraces and Korhal Carnage during the upcoming balance patch.
THANK YOU. Long overdue on Prion but better late than never. KCK hasn't seem much play, but i'm not sure that it ever would
This patch is a breath of fresh air in more than one way. Map removals that will improve competitive play and balance, some compromised changes in good ways (5+2, thor multi-mode)
The immortal nerf will also open up other changes to protoss if they are neccesary without too much power being concentrated in one area; particularly i think that PvZ may dip again and PvP may become more dominated by stargate play, but we'll see when we get a few hundred pro games on the patch.
TLPD stats for Prion as of now:
TvZ: 89-114 (43.8%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 140-70 (66.7%) [ Games ]
PvT: 79-54 (59.4%) [ Games ]
Mirrors: 57 TvT | 201 ZvZ | 52 PvP
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On May 18 2016 07:43 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:32 pundurs wrote:On May 18 2016 03:30 Gullis wrote:
In the Thor thing, what do they mean with real time? Isn't in game time real time now? Perhaps the engine still runs in blizzard time, so they have to recalculate it to real time manually. Just a theory. It absolutely does. I have no idea why they didn't just fix the engine directly instead of "just" changing all the GUI information and the displayed clock. The best guess I could come up with is that they were worried that rounding the numbers (since "faster" isn't exactly 1.4 times "fast" and the engine stores things in 1 / 80ths (I think that's the fraction) instead of a true floating point number) could affect balance so they decided it was "easier" to just paper over the truth. Most of Blizzard's posts are about the engine time for a given thing (think HotS time). It's confusing only because they didn't change the engine, so they actually contend with two different concepts of time now.
Changing all the engine values could cause problems with values already being hardcoded elsewhere, and would also force people to relearn stuff. It isn't confusing for them, since they can just continue to use the same values they always have used. It's only confusing when communicating with the public.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate
Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not.
I think it's a similar situation for immortal as you described for liberator. Immortal plays a huge role in PvZ right now, a big enough role in PvT for the nerf to be felt a little and influences tech v tech interactions in pvp (where stargate has been quite dominant in LOTV). For stargate discussions in particular you can see this thread - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505739-a-change-to-the-oracle - where there is discussion of changing the oracle to armored or similar changes like improving stalker AA-vs-light damage.
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On May 18 2016 04:38 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only.
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport.
I'm fine with the Lib nerf, as long as they eventually reduce Ultra armor by 1. Just 1, not more.
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On May 18 2016 06:52 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 06:43 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that. really? I watch tons of pro level games and can't remember a lategame tvz in the past 1-2 months which terran won. At least in korea I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one and in the last 2 dreamhacks I haven't seen one either.
I'm not even watching every game and saw some :
DH Tours : polt vs elazer game 2 on dusk tower,
Last week of proleague had Bravo vs Leenock with the whole tech opened by both players.
GSL had not a lot of TvZ but we had : Dream vs Dark game 2 on lerilak and Cure vs curious on lerilak where ultras didn't change the outcome of the game.
Ofc the pre-hive ultra is used a lot by terrans cause it's a weak moment considering all the gaz zerg has to spend to get hive, ultra cavern and the plating, but it's not an all in in any way, it's just a strong push with a superior army and a transition being ready.
Anyway, I've seen many games these last few weeks were the lib nerf would have played a huge role, polt vs elazer being he perfect example imho since polt killed the corruptors and then ultras with his liberators alone (ultra had destroyed his ground army)
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On May 18 2016 09:23 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 06:52 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 06:43 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that. really? I watch tons of pro level games and can't remember a lategame tvz in the past 1-2 months which terran won. At least in korea I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one and in the last 2 dreamhacks I haven't seen one either. I'm not even watching every game and saw some : DH Tours : polt vs elazer game 2 on dusk tower, Last week of proleague had Bravo vs Leenock with the whole tech opened by both players. GSL had not a lot of TvZ but we had : Dream vs Dark game 2 on lerilak and Cure vs curious on lerilak where ultras didn't change the outcome of the game. Ofc the pre-hive ultra is used a lot by terrans cause it's a weak moment considering all the gaz zerg has to spend to get hive, ultra cavern and the plating, but it's not an all in in any way, it's just a strong push with a superior army and a transition being ready. Anyway, I've seen many games these last few weeks were the lib nerf would have played a huge role, polt vs elazer being he perfect example imho since polt killed the corruptors and then ultras with his liberators alone (ultra had destroyed his ground army)
Alright, I think you're mistaken on the Dark - Dream game as the game-winning fight was before chitinous plating finished and dream won with pure bio tank but you're right about the other ones.
Still I don't think it will have a huge impact in terms of winrates, maybe a small one but nothing to the point of the matchup becoming imbalanced
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Yea fuck high templar! Buff collo
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The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry and the Liberator is less effective at shooting it down. Two Terran factory units just got better.
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Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
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On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
I hope this is a joke
On May 18 2016 11:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry and the Liberator is less effective at shooting it down. Two Terran factory units just got better.
liberator is unchanged vs ground units. Unless you want to say you use the AA mode vs Collossi lol xD
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry
The Colossus in it's freshly buffed state is nerfed a bit from HOTS when at +0 attack (1.136x less DPS, applied in a different way so that hits to kill will change sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad) but nerfed dramatically when both sides have +3. It'll be about 1.4x lower DPS in that situation.
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On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
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On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad
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On May 18 2016 11:38 Cyro wrote:The Colossus in it's freshly buffed state is nerfed a bit from HOTS when at +0 attack (1.136x less DPS, applied in a different way so that hits to kill will change sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad) but nerfed dramatically when both sides have +3. It'll be about 1.4x lower DPS in that situation.
thanks for the insight.
so i guess the Collo has a limited time window where its effective.
i've asked about 5 times for stronger Terran ground and weaker Terran air. i got my wish.
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On May 18 2016 11:44 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus? Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad
In HoTS yes, in LotV no. Thors are great against adepts, stalkers, archons, colossus (with the new AA). They lose to immortals, but not nearly as badly as they did when immortals had hardened shields. Thors are certainly effective enough to warrant being built against colossus based compositions over vikings, should they become a thing again.
On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
They use the AA attack if they're not in range to to use the (much stronger) ground attack.
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On May 18 2016 12:28 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:44 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus? Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad In HoTS yes, in LotV no. Thors are great against adepts, stalkers, archons, colossus (with the new AA). They lose to immortals, but not nearly as badly as they did when immortals had hardened shields. Thors are certainly effective enough to warrant being built against colossus based compositions over vikings, should they become a thing again.
No they're not and we haven't seen them in lotv tvp because they're not.
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No they're not and we haven't seen them in lotv tvp because they're not.
We haven't seen them in LoTV TvP because:
1. No one uses colossus
and
2. They don't have the single-target mode.
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On May 18 2016 04:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it?
Frost is a Proleague map
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On May 18 2016 12:44 JuanDi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:04 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it? Frost is a Proleague map
And Frozen Temple isn't.
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Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
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On May 18 2016 13:19 MoonyD wrote:
Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
They're not buffing lib
Lib does 7*2 damage on live right now.
Changed lib does 5(+2 light)*2 damage.
It's a large nerf against non-light units but unchanged vs light - for example the Corruptor has 2 base armor so it'll take 3 damage instead of 5 (pre-nerf) when on equal upgrades.
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On May 18 2016 13:19 MoonyD wrote:
Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
They're nerfing the liberator. Previously liberator damage was 7. Now it is 5 (+2 light).
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Why do they keep increasing supply costs of units? 200/200 army is really only in name these days. The game is becoming more and more like WarCraft 3.
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No meaningful Protoss nerfs. I left the scene for 2 years because of Protoss and just came back, and it seems like things are still the same. I used to play Protoss, you see, but I could not stand Protoss, especially pro games and the Team Liquid board (including moderators) which so obviously favored Protoss.
I guess I am leaving again now. Enjoy the games where many former Protoss players left because Protoss race became the most ridiculous BS race.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 18 2016 13:26 usethis2 wrote:
Why do they keep increasing supply costs of units? 200/200 army is really only in name these days. The game is becoming more and more like WarCraft 3.
They don't want mass cyclone or mass swarmhost so they increased the supply. And since 200/200 armies rarely feature those units it doesn't cause them to be smaller.
On May 18 2016 13:30 usethis2 wrote:
No meaningful Protoss nerfs. I left the scene for 2 years because of Protoss and just came back, and it seems like things are still the same. I used to play Protoss, you see, but I could not stand Protoss, especially pro games and the Team Liquid board (including moderators) which so obviously favored Protoss.
I guess I am leaving again now. Enjoy the games where many former Protoss players left because Protoss race became the most ridiculous BS race.
I assure you the immortal nerf is meaningful. Either way the scene won't miss you.
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Too bad I liked the matches I've seen on Korhal Karnage, but guess it was too out there for most pros.
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On May 18 2016 13:53 Rathwirt wrote:
Too bad I liked the matches I've seen on Korhal Karnage, but guess it was too out there for most pros.
It's probably more about fairness than about how weird the map is. Nonstandard doesn't mean hugely imbalanced but it can more easily go that way as seen on these 2 maps
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On May 18 2016 14:06 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 13:53 Rathwirt wrote:
Too bad I liked the matches I've seen on Korhal Karnage, but guess it was too out there for most pros. It's probably more about fairness than about how weird the map is. Nonstandard doesn't mean hugely imbalanced but it can more easily go that way as seen on these 2 maps
Due to pros avoiding KCK like the plague, I don't think we have the tournament data to argue KCK is hugely imbalanced though, so KCK is being swapped out more out of design reasons than balance reasons.
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On May 18 2016 05:21 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. 10 liberators still can BTFO a bunch of corruptors in 4 hits and that liberator count is not true in late game. Trust me, mass liberator is still pain in the ass and zerg players won't have a ezpz A-move time.
But Ultras are also a pain in the ass for terran and the reason that terrans are trying to finish the game before hive.
Actually Broodlords are not the problem and we have to make liberators to prevent ultras.
But if they are nerfed they will be killed to easily by corruptors meanwhile the bio under will be kill very very easily by the ultras.
Ghosts are useless and almost no pros use them anymore because their ability can be cancelled by any damage or fungal.
They should buff back marauders or give to ghost the snipe ability they had in WOL.
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I was like stunned when loaded into Frost when laddering yesterday, didn't catch the memo about the map change
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On May 18 2016 13:30 usethis2 wrote:
No meaningful Protoss nerfs. I left the scene for 2 years because of Protoss and just came back, and it seems like things are still the same. I used to play Protoss, you see, but I could not stand Protoss, especially pro games and the Team Liquid board (including moderators) which so obviously favored Protoss.
I guess I am leaving again now. Enjoy the games where many former Protoss players left because Protoss race became the most ridiculous BS race.
Bye.
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Thank god Korhal Carnage is being removed. That map was so BS beyond 4 bases.
Looking forward to seeing the Immortal changes. I might be able to go roaches for more than 45 seconds now.
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On May 18 2016 14:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 14:06 Cyro wrote:On May 18 2016 13:53 Rathwirt wrote:
Too bad I liked the matches I've seen on Korhal Karnage, but guess it was too out there for most pros. It's probably more about fairness than about how weird the map is. Nonstandard doesn't mean hugely imbalanced but it can more easily go that way as seen on these 2 maps Due to pros avoiding KCK like the plague, I don't think we have the tournament data to argue KCK is hugely imbalanced though, so KCK is being swapped out more out of design reasons than balance reasons.
Some have stressed avoiding it for balance/matchup reasons
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On May 18 2016 13:30 usethis2 wrote:
No meaningful Protoss nerfs. I left the scene for 2 years because of Protoss and just came back, and it seems like things are still the same. I used to play Protoss, you see, but I could not stand Protoss, especially pro games and the Team Liquid board (including moderators) which so obviously favored Protoss.
I guess I am leaving again now. Enjoy the games where many former Protoss players left because Protoss race became the most ridiculous BS race.
Yep because the immortal nerf is definitely not meaningful. Glad you are leaving.
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I usually never care about patches , i still love and play the game every month or so... but i laughed at the swarm host change.. it would had been better to not even mention that unit exist.
thats the most hilarious change ,i saw..to a unit who NONE uses for years.. its hard to tell if these changes are prank sometimes..
it seems like they make a random list of changes , after going to the bathroom lol.. probably 5 min work?
in conclusion no matter what you change , protoss will always be imba... XD
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On May 18 2016 12:39 Athenau wrote:We haven't seen them in LoTV TvP because: 1. No one uses colossus and 2. They don't have the single-target mode.
We haven't seen them because 2 liberators are a far better gas investment in every possible way. Even if we completely removed liberators, tanks would probably be a far better gas investment in every possible way.
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King Sejong Station and Frost coming back to the pool? Nice!
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Wow. Usually i mostly agree with those blizzard suggestions but the only change that isnt COMPLETELY shit, is the immortal nerf. Curious to where this goes. Looks like an incoming SC2 pause for me....
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51458 Posts
King Sejong and Frost back to the ladder woop. KOREA WINS :d haha
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On May 18 2016 15:24 iamkaokao wrote:
I usually never care about patches , i still love and play the game every month or so... but i laughed at the swarm host change.. it would had been better to not even mention that unit exist.
thats the most hilarious change ,i saw..to a unit who NONE uses for years.. its hard to tell if these changes are prank sometimes..
it seems like they make a random list of changes , after going to the bathroom lol.. probably 5 min work?
in conclusion no matter what you change , protoss will always be imba... XD
Not if they removed Probes.
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On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
Lol r u sure you're gonna build thors for colossus?
Don't know if buffing collosus is any good but watching collosus shooting lasers like machine guns is gonna be cool.... and i like the idea of helping out lower rank players with this while not affecting pro level plays (hopefully it doesnt affect pro-level plays). Though I really miss the HT vs Ghost era, its not good playing it but it was definitely cool watching it, though with liberators, we're never returning to that era...
And Swarm Host, why oh why? Just remove this unit from the game already.... Lets see if immortal nerf is significant enough....
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Lol the immortal nerf
Back to mass lurker in ZvP i guess
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Thors could become a thing against protoss with these changes. They get a new long range AA mode against stuff that is good against them (voids, tempests... carriers?) and the only ground counter to them is nerfed (immortals).
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I may be one of the few watchers who miss the old Immortal. Obvious strengths and weaknesses without yet more timed spells that are hard to track and manage beyond sheer "mass 'em up and let them do their thing".
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i am glad david is finally going forward, even if the changes are not perfect, patching is the only way to perfection.
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We haven't seen them because 2 liberators are a far better gas investment in every possible way. Even if we completely removed liberators, tanks would probably be a far better gas investment in every possible way.
Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has.
Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS.
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On May 18 2016 19:46 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +
We haven't seen them because 2 liberators are a far better gas investment in every possible way. Even if we completely removed liberators, tanks would probably be a far better gas investment in every possible way.
Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has. Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS.
Thors are so hilariously bad against protoss because they get 8 shotted by immortals. Has to be the worst investment you can make.
Both the colossus buff and the liberator nerf won't change the fact that TvP will only be about wether liberators can kill everything or wether protoss harass the terran to death. Everything terran has except the liberator sucks so hard, but the liberator is so OP it makes up to it all.
And the patch won't change anything about how stupid this MU is.
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Very nice changes overall. It would be interesting to see if any range can be added to the Thor and/or Cyclone AA after all of this balances out and the new meta surfaces. I am still wondering what it will be like after 6 BL or Tempest pop out for any mainly factory based production.
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And the patch won't change anything about how stupid this MU is.
Given how many changes are occuring, I am prepared to wait to see the result but at the same time I do hope that if it ends up being insufficient to give factory based production setups what is needed to succeed - Blizzard would proceed with a new test map to address this asap.
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On May 18 2016 19:46 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +
We haven't seen them because 2 liberators are a far better gas investment in every possible way. Even if we completely removed liberators, tanks would probably be a far better gas investment in every possible way.
Yeah, 2 liberators are a better investment _now_. But post-patch, if we see more colossus, mixing in a few thors might be worth it, simply because they pot shot colossus without having to siege, and because they're way better than vikings on the ground against everything else protoss has. Of course it's likely that liberators alone are enough to deal with a (slightly) buffed colossus. Either way, the colossus buff doesn't mean much to the match up. Terran has answers and they're stronger than the ones they had in HotS.
No we won't, specifically against colos, because vikings and tanks are the better unit against them. Thors are slow, clunky, easy to pick off, hard to use effectively, basically every possible reason you can think of why a unit could be bad the thor tries to be all of them at once.
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No we won't, specifically against colos, because vikings and tanks are the better unit against them. Thors are slow, clunky, easy to pick off, hard to use effectively, basically every possible reason you can think of why a unit could be bad the thor tries to be all of them at once.
Vikings are vulnerable to storm, easily picked off by stalkers (thors have more HP per cost and supply and 1 base armor), scale better with upgrades, don't compete for starport time, and do something like twice the ground dps per supply and even more per cost. If you could zone out colossus with thors and liberators, why on earth would you ever build vikings?
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Korhal was bonkers, but man I fucking hate KJS.
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On May 18 2016 04:38 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only.
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport.
Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not.
The changes to the Cyclone and Swarm Hosts are quite literally useless, the problem with these units isn't the cost or the supply, it's how they work. Change the Cyclone to be an all purpose massable (but not overpowered) factory foot men unit that can provide mobile anti - air for mech armies and change the Swarm Host to...well...pretty much anything else then what it does. At least change it so it has some type of identity and strategic value, why would I ever build Swarm Hosts to siege when I can build Lurkers which come from my general combat soldiers or just spend that gas on Greater Spire? I wouldn't even care if they removed the unit from the game at this point.
Corrupters are way better than Vikings and can basically autosnipe any building now. Now, libs will literally only be useful against mutas because of Fenix and viper range and speed.
Vikings are way worse investments than corrupters, period.
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That SH change is pretty odd. Might as well remove the unit entirely if you're just going to keep nerfing it into even more oblivion than at present. The 50 mineral reduction is beyond meaningless to a Z at that stage in the game. Whereas the +1 supply cost increase pretty much guarantees that we'll never again see SH in competitive play, even for its current super rare snipe usage (unless Rogue devises something even crazier than before).
I was one of the biggest proponents against SH during their heyday in HOTS, but in the hopes of seeing the entire unit reworked, or eliminated and something else added in its place. Death by a thousand nerfs just feels wrong and pointless.
And in light of the now-barely-ever used Colussus receiving at least a little something positive, it makes the updated SH stand out even more as an entirely pointless unit. That needs to either be completely removed, or allowed to have actual purpose. If anything, it ends up being a determinant to many players given that Z often mistakenly build 1-2 of them while being distracted and fighting mid-late game while near max.
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On May 18 2016 23:00 TronJovolta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:38 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only.
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport.
Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not.
The changes to the Cyclone and Swarm Hosts are quite literally useless, the problem with these units isn't the cost or the supply, it's how they work. Change the Cyclone to be an all purpose massable (but not overpowered) factory foot men unit that can provide mobile anti - air for mech armies and change the Swarm Host to...well...pretty much anything else then what it does. At least change it so it has some type of identity and strategic value, why would I ever build Swarm Hosts to siege when I can build Lurkers which come from my general combat soldiers or just spend that gas on Greater Spire? I wouldn't even care if they removed the unit from the game at this point.
Corrupters are way better than Vikings and can basically autosnipe any building now. Now, libs will literally only be useful against mutas because of Fenix and viper range and speed. Vikings are way worse investments than corrupters, period. How are corruptors better than vikings, simply because they get an ability to damage buildings over a period of time? The only thing corruptors are good against are units which don't shoot back. It's not as if a viking lacks the ability to shoot buildings as well.
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On May 18 2016 19:33 WigglingSquid wrote:
I may be one of the few watchers who miss the old Immortal. Obvious strengths and weaknesses without yet more timed spells that are hard to track and manage beyond sheer "mass 'em up and let them do their thing".
Old immortal was about hard counters, new one is less countery and less easily countered. Though with 100 shields, i think it's actually worse than the old immortal.
The 50 mineral reduction is beyond meaningless to a Z at that stage in the game
It's a 1.2x reduction in cost - sure, the cost comes out of minerals and not gas, but it's relevant. Your 6 swarm hosts now come with a free hatchery $$$
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not sure how relevant is reducing min cost for SH given that you tend to flood more min than gas. Plus the fact that the increase in supply doesn't mean you don't spend less min. You just put the money to pump 1-2 more OL to get that supply up. Plus it takes up more supply for you to build other units.
But al in all, not a big change. I am glad that the Immortal shield barrier is nerf. Plus changing those maps is a good change.
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On May 18 2016 23:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 23:00 TronJovolta wrote:On May 18 2016 04:38 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Good stuff, this is how the patches should be, multiple light nerfs and buffs across the board dealing with problematic units and underused units only.
The Liberator nerf is a god send, mass Liberator in the end game is ridiculous, even if it leads to Terran struggling a bit, I'd be more then happy for other areas of Terran to get buffed to compensate, but I think this nerf is alot more gentle then Terran players would like to let on. Mass Liberator is just OP, they shouldn't walk all over Zerg dedicated anti air units (Corruptors) considering Zerg's anti air is still to this day the worst in the game. Parasitic Bomb is great but is was nerfed fairly hard and you need probably 3 - 4 bombs just to kill the Liberators, more like 5 - 7 if the Terran can split his Liberators to any degree. That's a huge gas investment and a huge sure to die chance just to deal with a unit that can be reactored off of a Starport.
Really anxious to see how ZvP shapes up, Immortals are without a doubt over performing but the match up was only semi balanced on a razors edge, so we'll see if Protoss win rates drastically dip or not.
The changes to the Cyclone and Swarm Hosts are quite literally useless, the problem with these units isn't the cost or the supply, it's how they work. Change the Cyclone to be an all purpose massable (but not overpowered) factory foot men unit that can provide mobile anti - air for mech armies and change the Swarm Host to...well...pretty much anything else then what it does. At least change it so it has some type of identity and strategic value, why would I ever build Swarm Hosts to siege when I can build Lurkers which come from my general combat soldiers or just spend that gas on Greater Spire? I wouldn't even care if they removed the unit from the game at this point.
Corrupters are way better than Vikings and can basically autosnipe any building now. Now, libs will literally only be useful against mutas because of Fenix and viper range and speed. Vikings are way worse investments than corrupters, period. How are corruptors better than vikings, simply because they get an ability to damage buildings over a period of time? The only thing corruptors are good against are units which don't shoot back. It's not as if a viking lacks the ability to shoot buildings as well.
Because they are, corruptors defeat vikings straight up
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Plus the fact that the increase in supply doesn't mean you don't spend less min. You just put the money to pump 1-2 more OL to get that supply up. Plus it takes up more supply for you to build other units.
It costs 12.5 minerals per supply (which is a quarter of the price reduction) but you also have to take several other things into account.
Supply has a larvae cost (1 per 8 supply)
If you go up to 100 supply, trade down to 50 supply and then continue building and losing units around 50-90 supply, you will not pay anything for the unit costing extra supply until you're supply blocked again. If you build one army comp that takes you to 80/100 or another that takes you to 90/100, they'll both cost you the same and not require additional overlords until if and when you're hitting 100/100 again
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Ugh I never liked King Sejong Station to play... Frost was cool though. Bummed given I already had Korhal vetoed and as a Zerg, Prion Terraces was awesome.
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So...if the immortals shield is reduced to 100...that means it's technically like saying they'll have 200 shields (with the proc active). I'd almost rather have the hots version (10 damage to anything over 10) because it'd have a specific purpose for sheltering against tank hits and liberators. Just my thoughts...
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Is there any unit test map for these changes? So that one can test the new Thors versus capital ships?
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On May 21 2016 01:27 MockHamill wrote:
Is there any unit test map for these changes? So that one can test the new Thors versus capital ships?
I was looking for that to. But then, what are you going to test? Tempests have 893274 range and the change doesn't matter, BL have more range, Vipers have the same and they only need to hit once to kill the thor, Libs have 14 after the upgrade, it's really only the BC that will feel the brunt on the change.
The armored units that are a problem are not going to be countered in any way by the slow, expensive, lower range thor. It's still vikings that will do the job. The Thor might, might, be a better support unit.
It's a step in the right direction none the less. But like the buff to the rate of fire of the Tank, it's a buff, a buff that is no where near enough to matter for anything.
GtA is a problem for the factory (and SC2 in general), but the real problem is with the strength of air units. Tempests, BLs, Libs need to have less range. You can't have the ultimate assault unit be a flying one and expect good gameplay.
Next patch nerf air pls, especially range. Mobility and range should never be on the same unit.
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Well, I guess PvZ will be nightmare now after this immortal nerf.
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On May 21 2016 03:31 Shield wrote:
Well, I guess PvZ will be nightmare now after this immortal nerf.
no immortal archon chargelot will most probably still do fine. Barriers weren't fully depleted before they ran out most of the time.
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On May 21 2016 05:38 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 03:31 Shield wrote:
Well, I guess PvZ will be nightmare now after this immortal nerf. no immortal archon chargelot will most probably still do fine. Barriers weren't fully depleted before they ran out most of the time.
So if this immortal barrier isn't a problem in PvZ, why nerf then?
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On May 21 2016 06:30 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 05:38 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 21 2016 03:31 Shield wrote:
Well, I guess PvZ will be nightmare now after this immortal nerf. no immortal archon chargelot will most probably still do fine. Barriers weren't fully depleted before they ran out most of the time. So if this immortal barrier isn't a problem in PvZ, why nerf then?
They were a problem. The fact that they weren't fully depleted just means that the nerf isn't quite as heavy as it looks.
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King Sejong Station, Frost and Frozen Temple in map pool? Winter is coming,
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These supply changes make sense because on some maps in LotV where it's hard to take a 4th base, or even a 3rd base on a map like Central Protocol, and a 4th or 3rd base is absolutely required to keep the game going, the final engagement of the game happens and neither player is maxed out. Infact there are a lot of games where neither player ever maxes out on supply. It changes the dynamic of the game a lot, especially for Zerg and Protoss, less so for Terran
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On May 21 2016 16:41 Venser wrote:
King Sejong Station, Frost and Frozen Temple in map pool? Winter is coming,
On May 18 2016 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Frost + King Sejong + Frozen Temple
Winter is coming
ha ha ha
the paradoxical thing is that it's going to be summer outside
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On May 22 2016 23:37 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 16:41 Venser wrote:
King Sejong Station, Frost and Frozen Temple in map pool? Winter is coming, Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Frost + King Sejong + Frozen Temple
Winter is coming ha ha ha the paradoxical thing is that it's going to be summer outside
depends where you live
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On May 23 2016 00:00 Railgan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2016 23:37 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 21 2016 16:41 Venser wrote:
King Sejong Station, Frost and Frozen Temple in map pool? Winter is coming, On May 18 2016 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Frost + King Sejong + Frozen Temple
Winter is coming ha ha ha the paradoxical thing is that it's going to be summer outside depends where you live
true
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Nice to see them spicing up the map pool a bit. I'm not sure how balanced Frost and King Sejong Station will be in LotV. The third seems a little difficult on Frost and Liberators will probably be very good on KSS.
I don't like the Cyclone and Swarm Host changes. I don't think it will fix any of the problems that those units have.
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On May 18 2016 19:33 WigglingSquid wrote:
I may be one of the few watchers who miss the old Immortal. Obvious strengths and weaknesses without yet more timed spells that are hard to track and manage beyond sheer "mass 'em up and let them do their thing".
i think the role of the "ranged High dps to armor - high survivability " is flawed in itself. Either you have a unit that has high dps, or high survivability - not both. In its old form the immortal would always pose a problem.
Its an upgrade you could have given to something like the stalker for the endgame.
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So its live? any1 can confirm the map swap as well?
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On May 24 2016 20:45 insitelol wrote:
So its live? any1 can confirm the map swap as well?
Everything's been live on EU since last night.
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I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rotJtbM.jpg)
the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36996 Posts
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EPT
