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On May 18 2016 06:52 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 06:43 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that. really? I watch tons of pro level games and can't remember a lategame tvz in the past 1-2 months which terran won. At least in korea I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one and in the last 2 dreamhacks I haven't seen one either.
I'm not even watching every game and saw some :
DH Tours : polt vs elazer game 2 on dusk tower,
Last week of proleague had Bravo vs Leenock with the whole tech opened by both players.
GSL had not a lot of TvZ but we had : Dream vs Dark game 2 on lerilak and Cure vs curious on lerilak where ultras didn't change the outcome of the game.
Ofc the pre-hive ultra is used a lot by terrans cause it's a weak moment considering all the gaz zerg has to spend to get hive, ultra cavern and the plating, but it's not an all in in any way, it's just a strong push with a superior army and a transition being ready.
Anyway, I've seen many games these last few weeks were the lib nerf would have played a huge role, polt vs elazer being he perfect example imho since polt killed the corruptors and then ultras with his liberators alone (ultra had destroyed his ground army)
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On May 18 2016 09:23 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 06:52 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 06:43 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 18 2016 05:19 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 04:59 TheWinks wrote:
Nerfing terran in lategame TvZ without compensation makes no sense at all nor does trying to make a lateral change with the cyclone. Terran is avoiding TvZ lategame like they did during blord/infestor and HotS tvp despite these 'OP' liberators and the cyclone isn't used because it's just a bad unit. I don't think the liberator nerf will make any difference at the pro level. 99% of terrans allin the zerg before they get to hive anyway, this nerf won't make any difference because lategame just isn't played at the moment. The only thing it does is removing the Maru + Show Spoiler + mass liberator build. That's just not true, there were tons of late game TvZ at pro level these past weeks and the terrans didn't always lost, far from that. really? I watch tons of pro level games and can't remember a lategame tvz in the past 1-2 months which terran won. At least in korea I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one and in the last 2 dreamhacks I haven't seen one either. I'm not even watching every game and saw some : DH Tours : polt vs elazer game 2 on dusk tower, Last week of proleague had Bravo vs Leenock with the whole tech opened by both players. GSL had not a lot of TvZ but we had : Dream vs Dark game 2 on lerilak and Cure vs curious on lerilak where ultras didn't change the outcome of the game. Ofc the pre-hive ultra is used a lot by terrans cause it's a weak moment considering all the gaz zerg has to spend to get hive, ultra cavern and the plating, but it's not an all in in any way, it's just a strong push with a superior army and a transition being ready. Anyway, I've seen many games these last few weeks were the lib nerf would have played a huge role, polt vs elazer being he perfect example imho since polt killed the corruptors and then ultras with his liberators alone (ultra had destroyed his ground army)
Alright, I think you're mistaken on the Dark - Dream game as the game-winning fight was before chitinous plating finished and dream won with pure bio tank but you're right about the other ones.
Still I don't think it will have a huge impact in terms of winrates, maybe a small one but nothing to the point of the matchup becoming imbalanced
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Yea fuck high templar! Buff collo
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Canada16699 Posts
The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry and the Liberator is less effective at shooting it down. Two Terran factory units just got better.
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Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
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On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
I hope this is a joke
On May 18 2016 11:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry and the Liberator is less effective at shooting it down. Two Terran factory units just got better.
liberator is unchanged vs ground units. Unless you want to say you use the AA mode vs Collossi lol xD
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
The Collossus just became way better at mowing down terran infantry
The Colossus in it's freshly buffed state is nerfed a bit from HOTS when at +0 attack (1.136x less DPS, applied in a different way so that hits to kill will change sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad) but nerfed dramatically when both sides have +3. It'll be about 1.4x lower DPS in that situation.
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On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed.
Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
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On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad
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Canada16699 Posts
On May 18 2016 11:38 Cyro wrote:The Colossus in it's freshly buffed state is nerfed a bit from HOTS when at +0 attack (1.136x less DPS, applied in a different way so that hits to kill will change sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad) but nerfed dramatically when both sides have +3. It'll be about 1.4x lower DPS in that situation.
thanks for the insight.
so i guess the Collo has a limited time window where its effective.
i've asked about 5 times for stronger Terran ground and weaker Terran air. i got my wish.
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On May 18 2016 11:44 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus? Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad
In HoTS yes, in LotV no. Thors are great against adepts, stalkers, archons, colossus (with the new AA). They lose to immortals, but not nearly as badly as they did when immortals had hardened shields. Thors are certainly effective enough to warrant being built against colossus based compositions over vikings, should they become a thing again.
On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus?
They use the AA attack if they're not in range to to use the (much stronger) ground attack.
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On May 18 2016 12:28 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:44 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 11:38 Fran_ wrote:On May 18 2016 11:18 Athenau wrote:
Pretty sure Thors will beat Colossus handily since the anti-armor mode hits them at range 10. In HoTS it didn't matter because the single target mode was weaker and the colossus stronger, but now that situation's reversed. Interesting, do we know for sure it will prioritize the air attack if there's a colossus? Irrelevant since the thor is the worst unit you could make vs protoss. Okay maybe ravens, cyclones and BCs are similarly bad In HoTS yes, in LotV no. Thors are great against adepts, stalkers, archons, colossus (with the new AA). They lose to immortals, but not nearly as badly as they did when immortals had hardened shields. Thors are certainly effective enough to warrant being built against colossus based compositions over vikings, should they become a thing again.
No they're not and we haven't seen them in lotv tvp because they're not.
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No they're not and we haven't seen them in lotv tvp because they're not.
We haven't seen them in LoTV TvP because:
1. No one uses colossus
and
2. They don't have the single-target mode.
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On May 18 2016 04:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it?
Frost is a Proleague map
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On May 18 2016 12:44 JuanDi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 04:04 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 03:37 Ctone23 wrote:On May 18 2016 03:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That change to Frozen Temple is unexpected. I wonder where that feedback came from. I can't recall hearing about this either, but I assume from KR players Why would players that don't play on this map give feedback about it? Frost is a Proleague map
And Frozen Temple isn't.
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Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On May 18 2016 13:19 MoonyD wrote:
Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
They're not buffing lib
Lib does 7*2 damage on live right now.
Changed lib does 5(+2 light)*2 damage.
It's a large nerf against non-light units but unchanged vs light - for example the Corruptor has 2 base armor so it'll take 3 damage instead of 5 (pre-nerf) when on equal upgrades.
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On May 18 2016 13:19 MoonyD wrote:
Could someone please explain to me when they are buffing the Liberator? Doesn't buffing the Liberator in terms of +2 Light Air units mean that Phoenixes will no longer be a good enough counter to deal with Liberators.
They're nerfing the liberator. Previously liberator damage was 7. Now it is 5 (+2 light).
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Why do they keep increasing supply costs of units? 200/200 army is really only in name these days. The game is becoming more and more like WarCraft 3.
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No meaningful Protoss nerfs. I left the scene for 2 years because of Protoss and just came back, and it seems like things are still the same. I used to play Protoss, you see, but I could not stand Protoss, especially pro games and the Team Liquid board (including moderators) which so obviously favored Protoss.
I guess I am leaving again now. Enjoy the games where many former Protoss players left because Protoss race became the most ridiculous BS race.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
