EPTwho gives a fuck about what is "outside of the pro level"? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?!
Community Feedback Update - May 13 - Page 3
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necrosexy
451 Posts
who gives a fuck about what is "outside of the pro level"? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?! | ||
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Nazara
United Kingdom235 Posts
On May 14 2016 08:55 necrosexy wrote: Ever thought about what would happen if all Protoss below Masters quit the game, viewership dropped by 25-33%, sponsorship deals dropped, and pros lost their salaries/jobs?"the Colossus may help players who struggle with microing Disruptors, since Protoss could in fact be performing weaker outside of the pro level right now." who gives a fuck about what is "outside of the pro level"? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?! Game should be balanced for all skill levels. Protoss is not only the least represented race, it also struggles in leagues higher then Gold and it has been like that for months. Small buff like this might be a step in good direction, even if it is not the best change, because the Colossus is a badly designed unit. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
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Tresher
Germany404 Posts
On May 14 2016 08:51 Tyrhanius wrote: I have 100% winrates vs Protoss gold, must be because i play zerg. Or maybe because i'm master... Gold games are totally irrelevant for talking about balance, only high level korean tournaments are. Balance is about changing someone because it's too strong. You have to hit the best level to say : "this is too strong, there is no counter, that is OP". Gold losing is just : X is better than Y, not X is favor by his race. These players just don't know how to counter the bo of your buddy, it's just lack of skill/knowledge/scouting, not imbalance. We hear : SC2 is too hard for casuals, but if it weren't hard, there would be no esport. Yes. And that is a mistake. They don´t necessarily need to listen to gold players but the biggest chunk of players are the everyday players. The ones that come home from work or whatever and just wanna have fun and play. The fact that I have to practice like a korean pro just to keep up in ladder when Im JUST GOLD OR PLATINUM is ridiculous. They focus on Esports TOO MUCH. If they don´t change this. Well have fun with a 400 playerbase. Also: If they just want feedback from Korean Pro´s, then why they make these kind of Updates public? They could ask the Kpro´s secretly if they only want their feedback. Your argument is flawed. And when the Game is only balanced for Pro Players, sorry that´s not Balance for me anymore. Balance is for everyone. Stop saying only Pro opinions matters. It already scared off huge amount of players. Im not commenting the second bolded part, that is just bullshit. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 14 2016 10:28 Tresher wrote: Yes. And that is a mistake. They don´t necessarily need to listen to gold players but the biggest chunk of players are the everyday players. The ones that come home from work or whatever and just wanna have fun and play. The fact that I have to practice like a korean pro just to keep up in ladder when Im JUST GOLD OR PLATINUM is ridiculous. They focus on Esports TOO MUCH. If they don´t change this. Well have fun with a 400 playerbase. Also: If they just want feedback from Korean Pro´s, then why they make these kind of Updates public? They could ask the Kpro´s secretly if they only want their feedback. Your argument is flawed. And when the Game is only balanced for Pro Players, sorry that´s not Balance for me anymore. Balance is for everyone. Stop saying only Pro opinions matters. It already scared off huge amount of players. Im not commenting the second bolded part, that is just bullshit. If I can casually play at a mid masters level then I promise that you don't need to practice hard to maintain platinum leage. Quite frankly your whole post is bullshit, learn to play and stop blaming the game, they are already buffing the easier to use late game unit. Pro opinions are the only ones that matter because everyone else can learn to play or leave and play an easy game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
On May 14 2016 10:28 Tresher wrote: Yes. And that is a mistake. They don´t necessarily need to listen to gold players but the biggest chunk of players are the everyday players. The ones that come home from work or whatever and just wanna have fun and play. The fact that I have to practice like a korean pro just to keep up in ladder when Im JUST GOLD OR PLATINUM is ridiculous. They focus on Esports TOO MUCH. If they don´t change this. Well have fun with a 400 playerbase. Also: If they just want feedback from Korean Pro´s, then why they make these kind of Updates public? They could ask the Kpro´s secretly if they only want their feedback. Your argument is flawed. And when the Game is only balanced for Pro Players, sorry that´s not Balance for me anymore. Balance is for everyone. Stop saying only Pro opinions matters. It already scared off huge amount of players. Im not commenting the second bolded part, that is just bullshit. if you practice like a korean pro and are still gold/platinum league you're doing something wrong. Also balance doesn't matter at low level because players can always improve their own play. even when it's true that one race is harder to play than the other races (which I don't think) low level players won't even notice it because they win 50% of the time anyways. I think the problem many low level players have is just that they want to play like the pros and then get frustrated when they can't make the things work they see in pro level games. | ||
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Tresher
Germany404 Posts
On May 14 2016 11:00 Beelzebub1 wrote: If I can casually play at a mid masters level then I promise that you don't need to practice hard to maintain platinum leage. Quite frankly your whole post is bullshit, learn to play and stop blaming the game, they are already buffing the easier to use late game unit. Pro opinions are the only ones that matter because everyone else can learn to play or leave and play an easy game. No. @Charoisaur The "practicing like a korean pro" was just an example and an exaggeration. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
By the way DK : - disruptor still in the game, still plagueging PvP - no talk of the tankivac - no talk of mech viability - adept shade still allows no counterplay - liberator AG still overwhelming while other sector of terran play suck - still nothing about the reaper - still nothing about the ravager - still nothing about the parasitic bomb - etc... I feel like the people who asked for the game to be fixed just left, because they saw blizzard wouldn't do any real design change. That's kinda sad. On May 14 2016 09:48 Nazara wrote: viewership dropped by 25-33%, sponsorship deals dropped, and pros lost their salaries/jobs? I'd like to know where those numbers come from but i suppose they're proving my point if they're true EDIT : nope, i just missread | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On May 14 2016 13:03 JackONeill wrote: Game should be designed for casuals, and balanced for pro gamers. That's the only way you'll get an interesting game people have fun to play, with a competitive pro scene. By the way DK : - disruptor still in the game, still plagueging PvP - no talk of the tankivac - no talk of mech viability - adept shade still allows no counterplay - liberator AG still overwhelming while other sector of terran play suck - still nothing about the reaper - still nothing about the ravager - still nothing about the parasitic bomb - etc... I feel like the people who asked for the game to be fixed just left, because they saw blizzard wouldn't do any real design change. That's kinda sad. I'd like to know where those numbers come from but i suppose they're proving my point if they're true they're not true, it's a hypothetical scenario which might happen if low level protoss players quit en masse | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17737 Posts
On May 14 2016 13:03 JackONeill wrote: Game should be designed for casuals, and balanced for pro gamers. That's the only way you'll get an interesting game people have fun to play, with a competitive pro scene. casuals need to accept the fact that 1 race will lead to a higher ladder standing and there is nothing Blizzard can do about it. | ||
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Vedeynevin
United States431 Posts
On May 14 2016 10:28 Tresher wrote: Yes. And that is a mistake. They don´t necessarily need to listen to gold players but the biggest chunk of players are the everyday players. The ones that come home from work or whatever and just wanna have fun and play. The fact that I have to practice like a korean pro just to keep up in ladder when Im JUST GOLD OR PLATINUM is ridiculous. They focus on Esports TOO MUCH. If they don´t change this. Well have fun with a 400 playerbase. Also: If they just want feedback from Korean Pro´s, then why they make these kind of Updates public? They could ask the Kpro´s secretly if they only want their feedback. Your argument is flawed. And when the Game is only balanced for Pro Players, sorry that´s not Balance for me anymore. Balance is for everyone. Stop saying only Pro opinions matters. It already scared off huge amount of players. Im not commenting the second bolded part, that is just bullshit. If you are in gold/plat it isn't because of your race, it's because you have a gold/plat level of skill. Your winrate is gonna be roughly 50% regardless. If they give your race a buffet, your winrate will see a negligible increase. Unless your winrate is sub 45% for an extended period of time you aren't struggling any more then anyone else. This game is hard for everyone. You give it all you have and, unless you are masters or higher, your winrate will still be around 50%. Like others have said, you aren't losing because of your race. There are too many things wrong with your play for balance to be why you lose. You lose because your opponent outplayed you. A buff will not make you win more, get over it. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 14 2016 08:51 Tyrhanius wrote: We hear : SC2 is too hard for casuals, but if it weren't hard, there would be no esport. Which is utter nonsense. I can point left and right to examples of flourishing e-sports, that are also perfectly accessible to your average human being. In fact, if you go by viewer numbers you might even say those things are connected. Skill floor and skill ceiling are 2 different concepts, and you only want one of those to be high. | ||
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Wrath
3175 Posts
It exists. EDIT: God damn it InfCereal you can't even quote right? I fixed it here... | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
On May 14 2016 14:19 Vedeynevin wrote: If you are in gold/plat it isn't because of your race, it's because you have a gold/plat level of skill. Your winrate is gonna be roughly 50% regardless. If they give your race a buffet, your winrate will see a negligible increase. Unless your winrate is sub 45% for an extended period of time you aren't struggling any more then anyone else. This game is hard for everyone. You give it all you have and, unless you are masters or higher, your winrate will still be around 50%. Like others have said, you aren't losing because of your race. There are too many things wrong with your play for balance to be why you lose. You lose because your opponent outplayed you. A buff will not make you win more, get over it. Assuming players of equal skill, something that's balanced on Master's or higher level isn't necessarily balanced on Gold/Plat level. Alot of things are easier to excecute than they are to defend and this issue is more obvious in the lower leagues. You might say, anything lower than Master shouldn't matter for balance and the game should be designed around Korean pros. But like that, you're gonna alienate the largest group of people that play the game. When there will be few hundred people left playing this 'elite club' of a game and less than a thousand viewers for major tournaments, it will be too late to realise that's the wrong mindset. It's like some people want this game to be a secret club only for Master League players or above. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On May 14 2016 04:13 blade55555 wrote: It's good they know that Protoss isn't UP. Anyone who thinks so are fools, or just don't know the best way to play. I see so many foreign Protosses that still don't open up phoenix. Yes, it sucks you have to do it boohoo, but that's how to best utilize your race and realize their not UP at all. did toss players hate opening corsair in BW? I thought that was accepted. | ||
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breaker1328
Canada300 Posts
On May 14 2016 14:44 ihatevideogames wrote: Assuming players of equal skill, something that's balanced on Master's or higher level isn't necessarily balanced on Gold/Plat level. Alot of things are easier to excecute than they are to defend and this issue is more obvious in the lower leagues. You might say, anything lower than Master shouldn't matter for balance and the game should be designed around Korean pros. But like that, you're gonna alienate the largest group of people that play the game. When there will be few hundred people left playing this 'elite club' of a game and less than a thousand viewers for major tournaments, it will be too late to realise that's the wrong mindset. It's like some people want this game to be a secret club only for Master League players or above. Almost exactly this. The largest population of players in SC2 is in the meaty part of the bell curve, which is Gold league. If the game isn't fun for gold level players then how the hell are the korean pros going to make any money? No lower level players, means no one gives a shit about the game, means no one wants to watch or be a professional in it means dead game. | ||
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Tresher
Germany404 Posts
On May 14 2016 14:44 ihatevideogames wrote: Assuming players of equal skill, something that's balanced on Master's or higher level isn't necessarily balanced on Gold/Plat level. Alot of things are easier to excecute than they are to defend and this issue is more obvious in the lower leagues. You might say, anything lower than Master shouldn't matter for balance and the game should be designed around Korean pros. But like that, you're gonna alienate the largest group of people that play the game. When there will be few hundred people left playing this 'elite club' of a game and less than a thousand viewers for major tournaments, it will be too late to realise that's the wrong mindset. It's like some people want this game to be a secret club only for Master League players or above. THANK YOU! And to the people that tell me l2p or get over it. Stop it. You can spew these phrases on Bnet Forums where they belong. I never asked for any buffs neither was I whining about a certain Imbalance or the race I play. The Gold/Plat thing was just an example, I wasn´t speaking for myself. Usually Im ok with the league or situation Im in. The only real thing I would be angry about is the fact that Terran still has to play the same strategy for 6 years most of the time. It´s sad that terran lost one of their two unique playstyles just because the other is so dominant. It´s like a signature Weapon from a shooter got cut. EDIT: also thanks to breaker1328. Good to see that other people also see a potential problem. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On May 14 2016 08:38 Alienship wrote: Deciding whether a race needs to be nerfed or buffed by the number of championship is misleading and dangerous. It seems that it only takes one champion for David Kim to give out the sentence for a race. Following his logic in the update, I wonder, whether a champion has to be a random player, therefore no race will be nerfed. Or, the player will be banned as a means of maintaining balance? In Starcraft, we didn't see Blizzard doing anything to the races played by Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, sAviOr and Jaedong, considering how many championships these players won and how dominating they were. Also, in the first two years of WoL, compared to multiple championships won by Terran and Zerg players, MC won the only two GSL championships as a Protoss player, where was the balance correction? Why didn't David Kim correct Protoss in 2014 and 2015 since Protoss players won multiple major championships? I'm not complaining about "unfair" treatment for Protoss. I'm merely pointing out how ridiculously absurd to judge the current state of a race by counting how many championships or runner-ups the players of this race win. Maybe the Immortal nerf and Colossus buff end up being just fine. Nevertheless, following such logic can lead to something that actually downgrades the player factors in the future. It's not just the championships though, these are the decent Korean winrates and Protoss is doing really well; www.playxp.com. Even if Protoss wasn't doing so well, the immortal is clearly a unit with issues, in PvZ there is not a single groundunit except maybe lings that really counter immortals. If Protoss end up being too weak, they can always buff another unit. Liberators and Ultras probably have the same problem btw. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On May 14 2016 15:02 breaker1328 wrote: Almost exactly this. The largest population of players in SC2 is in the meaty part of the bell curve, which is Gold league. If the game isn't fun for gold level players then how the hell are the korean pros going to make any money? No lower level players, means no one gives a shit about the game, means no one wants to watch or be a professional in it means dead game. You saying it's not fun doesn't make it not fun, pretty presumptuous to speak for Gold league players everywhere. We don't want it to be a secret Master league club, we want the game to be balanced at the top where it matters, not below the top where you can work on scouting, micro, and macro and 100% of the time improve your play. Since when was any great game balanced around noobs? People in Gold league are hilariously terrible at the game, balancing the game for them would be like making all NBA hoops 6 feet tall because, "If regular players can't enjoy the game like the pro's then what the hell man dead sport." Obviously the example isn't perfect, but you get the point. | ||
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